[andrew.ralph@homec]

 hi all had some complaints about  the upstairs sills being dirty which is  the best way of cleaning them i use a normal 10 inch vikan brush for cleaning windows  should i change my brush cheers andy

[KJG]

The brush is fine, try another neck with a bit of angle on it.

Is this punter paying extra? Normal practice is you only clean up mess you've made and pure water doesn't leave any!

[Davew]

I thought I was doing a great job untill I climbed up on an extension and wfp a window I normally do from the ground. The sill was crap and whats more it wouldn't clean up with the brush either. If you start with clean sills you can keep them clean but if they are already stained pure water alone won't fix it.

[john tomkins]

Had an old woman tell me last week that her sills had scratches in them, which to be honest on first glance it did, what it turns out to be is  ingrained dirt/scum and catching the sill with my brush rubbed off the top layer to reveal the white underneath leaving marks, I had some upvc solvent cleaner and it took the lot off.
Have noticed this on quite a few upvc sills since that are not as white as they used to be.

[Trevor Knight]

The brush is fine, try another neck with a bit of angle on it.

Is this punter paying extra? Normal practice is you only clean up mess you've made and pure water doesn't leave any!

Not sure what you mean on this one?

Surely we are cleaning up the mess on the window and the frames form the environment and birds etc and thats why they are using our services, how can we have made the mess in the first place?

[EasyClean]

I use to use the 'Bentley' brushes fitted to my WFPoles. I give the sills a quick wipe with the brush to maintain clean cills. Using the Bentley brush with it's sharp edges I noticed it was scratching the sills so I stopped using them. Now I can't be accused of scratching cills anymore.

[MNWC]

Just use a cill brush, end of. 

Marcus

[SherwoodCleaningSe]

I wipe all ledges with the brush, although I feel that this compromises on the cleanness of the windows a little. 

If you wipe the Sill every time it won't get that dirty, however I've noticed if you don't wipe the water off the sill then on some sills it stays on the edge and attracts dirt so when you go back a month later there is a small grey line along the sill.

[Davew]

I grind the edge off my Bentley grushes so they don't scratch the sills. I've also found that fixed goosenecks are not too good for sill cleaning as the angle is wrong (unless I have a sill brush fitted).

[KJG]

The brush is fine, try another neck with a bit of angle on it.

Is this punter paying extra? Normal practice is you only clean up mess you've made and pure water doesn't leave any!

Not sure what you mean on this one?

Surely we are cleaning up the mess on the window and the frames form the environment and birds etc and thats why they are using our services, how can we have made the mess in the first place?

No, frame cleaning is, and should be, extra work to be paid for. This has been the norm for all the cleaning firms I've work for over the last 35 years - Tin pot to national. In fact, the last but one firm had it clearly stated on their customer satisfaction slips you got signed on completion - Frames not included...etc.

Obviously, with a trad clean, you're required to remove any mess of your making such as over-mop on frames and drips on sills. But as Andrew is wfp-ing, and assuming he's rinsing properly, he isn't leaving any mess of his making on frames or sills so why should he clean them for free?

[Trevor Knight]

Hi KJG,

Thanks for your reply, an interesting side to this?

I guess its all down to what is expected from you as a window cleaning service provider.

I personally have and always will include frames and sills as part of our standard service. I believe it improves customer satisfaction and delivers good results.

I wonder how your customers would look at it if a leafet was pushed through thier door with FRAMES and SILLS included at NO Extra cost? Just a thought.

35 years exeprience, nice one. If you don't mind I would like to talk to you by email on a completely different subject and something to do with an editorial I am currently compiling. Would you mind if I contacted you?

Trev

[Filllllll]

I run along sill with water flow still on.Then when I've finished upstairs windows I adjust Gooseneck and with the pole disconnected run along the sills to get rid of dirty edging that builds up.
Even so the result is only 80% clean compared to giving it a good wipe with a cloth.
By the way I'd say it was all part of the sevice and would consider a cheek to charge extra for it.

[KJG]

Hi KJG,

<snip>

35 years exeprience, nice one. If you don't mind I would like to talk to you by email on a completely different subject and something to do with an editorial I am currently compiling. Would you mind if I contacted you?

Trev

Oops, sorry Trev, I meant 25 years. It was way past my bed time when I posted last night

Yes, feel free to drop me a line but I won't be back till Saturday night.

[geefree]

i dont see how anyone can wfp the glass alone , the frames would almost certainly get cleaned along with the glass.....

also frames sills  takes seconds to do and are part of the job....so to say it should be extra is ridiculous nowadays... i include it all ,as well as doors when i price a job up... but how anyone can walk away and leave frames and sills dirty is totally beyond me !

i would be ashamed if i left that kind of dirt and called myself a window cleaner...... window cleaner remember? not glass cleaner.

Gary.

[KJG]

i dont see how anyone can wfp the glass alone , the frames would almost certainly get cleaned along with the glass.....

also frames sills  takes seconds to do and are part of the job....so to say it should be extra is ridiculous nowadays... i include it all ,as well as doors when i price a job up... but how anyone can walk away and leave frames and sills dirty is totally beyond me !

i would be ashamed if i left that kind of dirt and called myself a window cleaner...... window cleaner remember? not glass cleaner.

Gary.

I understand what you’re saying and it’s all very nice, but why is it ridiculous? You don't get freebies from any other businesses.

For a close enough example, take your van. Most of the procedure for a £45 MOT test is automatically done when doing the yearly service on it. It would only take a few minutes for the mechanic to complete the extra MOT work and, y'know, seeing as the van's there and etc...add the rest of your argument here. Would you get a free MOT?

There aren't many variations on a theme with window cleaning. Frame cleaning is one of the few available, why do yourself out of some perfectly reasonable to ask for extra cash?

[EasyClean]

If you tried cleaning the 'glass only' where I live you would soon be losing customers. Most WFP users I know locally clean the window frames which are considered as part of the window. I know several traditional window cleaners locally who don't clean the frames and charge very cheap prices yet still I'm asked to WFP the windows (including the frames and sills as part of the window) and still charge more than the previous 'trad' guy, sometimes even double the price! Customers prefer to have the frames cleaned as well and are prepared to pay the additional price for it!

[Trevor Knight]

Well this is getting more and more interesting by the day.

I have to agree with the majority here, sills and frames surely must consitiute a "clean"

The MOT scenario I personally think doesn't add up. Reasons? Well for 1 the Garage has to pay the commission on the MOT certificate and the extras that are not covered on a service will cost more in parts and labour and will, I hope, take more than a few seconds to complete.

In the end it really depends on how you want to "sell" your service to the customer. I like to think that when I have completed a job the windows, frames, sills and even the doors look good. I like to believe my customer is happy and wouldn't have any hesitation in recomending our services to her friends.

If you have just cleaned her house and ONLY cleaned the glass and NOT the frames I wonder what her friends would think of a) the finished result and b) the window cleaner, when she looks at lovely clean glass and minging frames covered in dirt and algea.

Surely her question has to be "don't they clean your frames?"
Answer - "no, thats extra!"
REPLY - "Really? my window cleaner cleans the whole lot and still charges me the same as you!"

Customer stands and thinks "yeah, but my glass is clean 

Like you have said in a previous post, you have done this for 25 years and for some of the big boys so it obviously works!

I would just be worried that another window cleaner offering to do the complete service at the same cost would surely make even my most loyal customers question what they are paying for?

[geefree]

quote:  I understand what you’re saying and it’s all very nice, but why is it ridiculous? You don't get freebies from any other businesses.



Thats what im saying, its not a freebie, i include the whole job in the price when i give them a quote, so they are paying.

once again , how can anyone leave dirt behind and feel they have done a good job?.

The old saying " if a jobs worth doing its worth doing right" must apply here.

personally a like to look back at each job as i drive away and see all the glass, frames and doors gleaming..

job satisfaction and pride in my work.

Gary.

[KJG]

Well it looks like I'm in the minority here. I've got a big frame cleaning job on in a fortnight and charge this company nearly double what they pay for just the windows - I'm beginning to feel a bit guilty

However, I'm not all bad I see many here who charge double for inside cleans - I only charge just over half

[SherwoodCleaningSe]

I think that you are more likely to charge extra for certain extras or put all the extras in as a standard clean depending on the method you use and what other window cleaner do locally.

When I first started I just cleaned the windows nothing else, I'd add an extra 50p for the ledges.  After a bit I just upped the standard price and included it in the job.

For window cleaners that are wfp cleaning the frames is no big deal as easy as wiping the ledge is to a trad guy, trads are right to charge double for the frames as it's double the time but a wfp guy can charge a modest amount extra and just call it part of the service.

Sounds a bit unfair that a wfp guy might clean the frames for almost half the price of a trad guy as standard but then the trad guy will pick up all the wfp guys custys that don't like their windows getting soaked.

Simon.