[Davew]

Thanks for such an in depth reply Alex, as you know I already have a Supalight and it's so good that I don't want to use a glass pole anymore. So for the lower work I started looking for a cheaper alternative i.e second hand carbon pole sections that I could happily play about with and dispose of when I break them without worrying about the expense, I can afford to be rougher with them with no worrys. As I know very little about the carp poles out there and which ones to buy I posted here. I searched for Maver Resolution and found the angling variety at £270 - obviously not exactly the same as yours and without many extra features. I then found other used Mavers with varying names that I thought maybe they could be used/chopped or just kept as spares. Like I said I'm not trying to have a go at you at all,  just searching for more information and thanks to people like you I can learn all the time.

[john tomkins]

[quote author=Alex Gardiner link=topic=35725.msg280893#msg280893 date=1176128295

The Zensorflex weighs 1.2kg at 20ft you say John, well the 'Super-Lite' sections weigh only 360g at 20ft so this does equate to more than 3x the weight. Also I have measured the flex of both poles and compared with our 'Super-Lite' it is easily 3x as flexible, measured per degree of angle deviation at 20ft.

There, that's me being pedantic :
 

Well Mr Pedantic
If you are comparing your £500+ superlite against the  26 times cheaper zensorflex then you are correct in your statement, but no one mentioned comparing the superlite, just a carbon fibre pole in general,and the majority are not 3x lighter,  the statement was
"The above pole is for a fibre glass pole, not a carbon pole.  Alex says its a great cheap pole if you are happy with fibre glass, it being 3x as heavy and 3x as flexible.  It also jams together easily as a past time!"
It just smacked of , its only glass fibre, it's 3x as heavy, it's 3x as flexible, and it jams together.
I was only replying to davew, he asked for a cheap light pole with a strong top section, 15 ft length, so I gave him an option and then suddenly its being compared to a superlite, ha ha funny old world

[Alex Gardiner]

John tomkins

We were not comparing a £500 pole against the £26 pole, but responding to these comments from Davew

 "Umm throws up some big questions over some of the prices we are being charged elsewhere."

and

"Some r&d sure but at the end of the day most wfp products are only adapted from dirt cheap household items and reworked angling poles."

Now Davew has just spent quite a lot of cash on one of our Super-Lite poles, it was obvious from his comments (not yours) that he thought that these two items were perhaps comparable products and hence why the price difference?

The comment from you that I objected to was
"Obviously you would rather folks spend £500+ on your superlite which is understandable, but trying to run us down for producing our own "cheapies"  is a bit rich "

We have never 'run down' others for trying to DIY their own poles, in fact we have spent quite a lot of time recently helping and advising some members of this forum that have purchased a cheap fishing pole on how they can get the best out of them.
However we do like to show that what we offer is a fair price for the quality of product they are getting.

A Super-Lite 45ft currently retails at £565 plus VAT. If you bought just the carbon pole  components from a discount fishing supplier they would cost (we know because we check regularly) £550-650. This would not include all of the WFP parts.

[matt]

plenty of disussion of this on the DIY forum

Jeff B has listed all the bits you need to get to certain heights

Im about to go down this route, only thing is, i will have to ditch the VIKAN brush and ive become attached to the old thing

[Jeff Brimble]

 

Of course a £25 pole isnt the same as a £250 its cheaper, lasts longer and is idiot proof, therefore ideal for staff.  But if it was for me I would double the money and go for the longer and stiffer Ron Thompson reload @ £49.99
The F16 type are for much higher up. I made the mistake of using it all day and everyday for a year.

Quote from an industry experts help  in my attempts to get an 80ft Carbon fibre pole ( is it possible ? )
 "  unfortunately CF has poor wear properties, so simple locking and unlocking of tapered sections will eventually cause the sections to wear, this quickly weakens the joints increasing the poles deflection or sag as they wear in.  Furthermore to use ###  sections increases the number you require overall, to achieve the operating length. They also limit the poles working length."

So I suggest you keep the expensive pole for the high work- less joint movement and get yourself a £50 Carbon composite everyday pole for £50 If it does wear its only £50 for another its stiff and robust enough for our useage.

[Jeff Brimble]

Matt, whats the weight of the VIKAN  ? (kitchen scales guess will do)

[matt]

Matt, whats the weight of the VIKAN  ? (kitchen scales guess will do)

ive just weighed it

its 490 g

[Chris Cottrell]

I weighed mine at 400g ... curious why the difference now

[matt]

I weighed mine at 400g ... curious why the difference now

mine is about 2 years old, its brand new, i brought a few for spares thing is, im still on the first brush, its 3 years old soon

[Jeff Brimble]

In my chase for ever lighter brushes because of the highly engineered carbon fibres, I have always discounted anything that weighd more then say 5 oz. But... I have just stuck a 1LB/454gram weight on the end of the Glass fibre Zensorflex No3 section and although its bouncy (about the same as an unger alu) it will take the weight. Maybe give it a go and see Matt. I know others use it.
I also tried it on the longer stiffer Reload and again it does take the weight and I think if you want stiffer after trying the Zensor go up to the Reload. So try your Vikan, suck it and see and get back to us.
You could use any other poles out there, its just that I have tried and tested many and the ones I recomend are the ones I recomend if you know what I mean.

[Chris Cottrell]

Matt my brush is 3mths old .. maybe they have lightened them since

Jeff, do you think 400g is too heavy for the map f16, I have Gardiners gooseneck and supalite (bentley) brush on ATM

Chris

[matt]

In my chase for ever lighter brushes because of the highly engineered carbon fibres, I have always discounted anything that weighd more then say 5 oz. But... I have just stuck a 1LB/454gram weight on the end of the Glass fibre Zensorflex No3 section and although its bouncy (about the same as an unger alu) it will take the weight. Maybe give it a go and see Matt. I know others use it.
I also tried it on the longer stiffer Reload and again it does take the weight and I think if you want stiffer after trying the Zensor go up to the Reload. So try your Vikan, suck it and see and get back to us.
You could use any other poles out there, its just that I have tried and tested many and the ones I recomend are the ones I recomend if you know what I mean.

cheers Jeff, i will give it a go,its just i feel "safe" with the VIKAN, dont know why

your recommendation is good enough for me Jeff

[john tomkins]

John tomkins

We were not comparing a £500 pole against the £26 pole, but responding to these comments from Davew


The comment from you that I objected to was
"Obviously you would rather folks spend £500+ on your superlite which is understandable, but trying to run us down for producing our own "cheapies"  is a bit rich "

davew wanted ...cheap light pole with a strong top section, 15 ft length, I gave him the zensorflex option, nothing more nothing less.

I then get quoted that my reply to davew,
"The above pole is for a fibre glass pole, not a carbon pole.  Alex says its a great cheap pole if you are happy with fibre glass, it being 3x as heavy and 3x as flexible.  It also jams together easily as a past time!"

thats what I objected to ,I gave a reply and you (your wife) ran it down,
 And saying  
"The Zensorflex weighs 1.2kg at 20ft you say John, well the 'Super-Lite' sections weigh only 360g at 20ft so this does equate to more than 3x the weight. Also I have measured the flex of both poles and compared with our 'Super-Lite' it is easily 3x as flexible, measured per degree of angle deviation at 20ft"

is obviously comparing poles is it not?

[Jeff Brimble]

You have put me on the spot there Chris, it will take the weight but the whole idea from an RSI point of view (which is why I went public with what I know) is to reduce weight. Its the lifting up and down arm/shoulder movement that may cause long term unforseeable problems.
If you like the Vikan that much and as long as you keep it upright when assembling and reducing then try it. But dont forget that with the C/F poles you can not put the same scrub leverage on the pole as a trad pole and should use a different technique when scrubbing.

ps dont forget its a strong top section as a collar/reinforcement for inserting over the thinner c/f section that helps spread the load.

[Chris Cottrell]

Yes jeff i see .. i was just curious, althought i have just been out to weigh the bentley with the gooseneck and they together weigh less than the vikan on its own weighing in at 350g

this is a very interesting subject atm for me as i'm just starting to use cf poles

Chris

[john tomkins]

 I tried the vikan (just weighed @ 410g) on the zensorflex/reload and it really is pushing it compared to the 230g ish addis/bentley option I now use, I used it for a first clean and it was like going back to my old unger ally job

[Alex Gardiner]

Hi John,

You say that  'davew wanted ...cheap light pole with a strong top section, 15 ft length, I gave him the zensorflex option, nothing more nothing less'

Actually what he said was, "I have a certain brand of carbon pole (water fed)that would seem to be much cheaper if bought through an angling outlet."  he thought that he could buy the same product (as the Super-Lite) from an angling retailer but a lot cheaper and wanted to know was there a difference.

What we pointed out was that there was a difference between the poles he was looking at on the net and a world of difference when compared to a cheap fibre glass pole.

We posted this information to help Davew realise the difference in the various products not to 'shoot' you down, as Davew obviously was getting confused by the wide array of products and prices. As you may notice our first response to his post was not directed at you or even for you but was for Davew, to help him see the difference.

As many have found there are a wide variety of fishing products on the market that can suit various needs, horses for courses.

[Jeff Brimble]

John, So it will do it but its like going back to the future  
Floor brushes for 10 years now so it really would be a step back in time for me to use a heavier car brush on the windows but if thats what people want...?

[john tomkins]

Not half jeff,
I blame you for getting me into the lighter side of life
As I do frames/doors/cills/1st cleans etc I do find the addis will not last me a month (maybe I'm just heavy handed) whereby the vikan has been going since last summer and is still newish....
but the weight

[Davew]

I've been using a Vikan sill brush - wouldn't want that on the end of a long lightweight pole!