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Davew

Any Anglers here?
« on: April 08, 2007, 10:46:14 pm »
I have a certain brand of carbon pole (water fed)that would seem to be much cheaper if bought through an angling outlet. I have thought of making a spare carbon pole from second hand poles available on the internet. What I would seem to need is a stiff but light carp pole with a very strong top section. I have come across "margin" poles too that would seem to be used for heavy big fish? not being an angler I'm not sure of the differences. Also what would a "super taper" top section be? This would only be a back up or experiment so I have no intention of parting with vast amounts of money in fact it could end up being only fifteen feet in length for light domestic work.

chris@c.m.s

  • Posts: 1556
Re: Any Anglers here?
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2007, 12:07:56 am »
Dave check out Matt's site,  I think all the info for that question is proberly on there. http://d.co.uk
Sussex by the sea

Jeff Brimble

  • Posts: 4347
Re: Any Anglers here?
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2007, 06:54:15 am »
A margin pole attributes is exactly what you are looking for, also look for the term "hit and hold". The Browning Aggressor comes with parallel extensions but is a bit pricy, for everyday use though if you find anything better £ for Lb than a Ron Thompson Reload, let me know. You can use any pole out there, they are all just about stiff enough,- just that I already looked.  ;)  "Commercial fishery pole " Is another good term.

Davew

Re: Any Anglers here?
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2007, 07:48:45 am »
Thanks Jeff I have been reading your exploits on Matts site. It's just that the particular brands you mention just didn't happen to come up on any second hand searches (looking for really cheap here). As I already have a carbon pole I thought I could interchange sections in future if I broke any. Names like Grim Reaper, Nebula etc. if you get my drift. When I've used my carbon pole I hate the thought of ever having to get my glassfibre one off the van it's like wrestling with a log! Even using the top section on it's own is a joy even compared to a small extender.
Blimey Jeff, i've just looked up the Thompson pole thats cheap!

john tomkins

  • Posts: 1639
Re: Any Anglers here?
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2007, 08:43:26 am »
Davew,
I followed jeffs advice and tried this out,
http://www.fishtec-coarse.co.uk/ProductDetailInfoWithoutOptions.cfm?ID=FC-ZENSPOLE&ShopRef=40&Prime=Yes&shopListRec=30517
For around £26 delivered it really is a good pole and so light, quite tough too, way more than a true CF, it's around 20ft and  less bend than the unger 5 x 1.25m (20ft) section pole I used to use.
For a trial into modular it takes some beating.

Davew

Re: Any Anglers here?
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2007, 09:06:28 am »
Umm throws up some big questions over some of the prices we are being charged elsewhere.

Chris Cottrell

  • Posts: 3162
Re: Any Anglers here?
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2007, 09:10:42 am »
I dont see why , afterall theres a lot of R&D involved in getting products ready for the market place

chris 

Davew

Re: Any Anglers here?
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2007, 09:35:54 am »
Some r&d sure but at the end of the day most wfp products are only adapted from dirt cheap household items and reworked angling poles. Have a look at some of the brushes on the market. I don't want to name particular suppliers as some I am very gratefull to for their help and advice and they are fellow cleaners too. What I am saying is that with a litle research there can be huge savings made. just look at the ro units being offered, the price of speedlining etc etc.

Alex Gardiner

  • Posts: 7744
Re: Any Anglers here?
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2007, 09:54:36 am »
Davew,
I followed jeffs advice and tried this out,
http://www.fishtec-coarse.co.uk/ProductDetailInfoWithoutOptions.cfm?ID=FC-ZENSPOLE&ShopRef=40&Prime=Yes&shopListRec=30517
For around £26 delivered it really is a good pole and so light, quite tough too, way more than a true CF, it's around 20ft and  less bend than the unger 5 x 1.25m (20ft) section pole I used to use.
For a trial into modular it takes some beating.

Hi Davew, Alex is out working but I've just phoned him to check my facts!

The above pole is for a fibre glass pole, not a carbon pole.  Alex says its a great cheap pole if you are happy with fibre glass, it being 3x as heavy and 3x as flexible.  It also jams together easily as a past time!

You do get what you pay for.  The retail price for the top section of a carbon fibre pole without the strengthening is £69.99 from a fishing shop retailer, the next section down is £60.99 and the next section down from that is £69.99.  That's the price from a fishing shop retailer.  Obviously with that price you don't get the gooseneck, hose, brush, insulation, adjustable bung, joint treatment, 'joint-stops', strengthened top section and instruction manual.   :)

Chris Cottrell

  • Posts: 3162
Re: Any Anglers here?
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2007, 10:05:16 am »
Some r&d sure but at the end of the day most wfp products are only adapted from dirt cheap household items and reworked angling poles. Have a look at some of the brushes on the market. I don't want to name particular suppliers as some I am very gratefull to for their help and advice and they are fellow cleaners too. What I am saying is that with a litle research there can be huge savings made. just look at the ro units being offered, the price of speedlining etc etc.

You dont have to tell me there are great savings to be made, I for 1 went the diy route and it saved me a packet but I still buy things from the wfp manufacturers & suppliers
Without some of the ideas these people put in our heads we wouldnt be half as far along the wfp road as we are now
So I say to the manufacturers & suppliers in this industry keep it coming guys and well done for getting us this far

Chris

Davew

Re: Any Anglers here?
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2007, 10:15:19 am »
Kirsty, thanks for that I'm really not trying to knock you or your company - honestly! and its good to hear your side. I was origionally looking to stock up with spare sections from the second hand angling market thats why I posted I've probably got in too deep with this subject and will shut up I think. I have to say that your site and sevice is superb though otherwise I would not purchase so much from you.

john tomkins

  • Posts: 1639
Re: Any Anglers here?
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2007, 10:32:27 am »
Davew,
I followed jeffs advice and tried this out,
http://www.fishtec-coarse.co.uk/ProductDetailInfoWithoutOptions.cfm?ID=FC-ZENSPOLE&ShopRef=40&Prime=Yes&shopListRec=30517
For around £26 delivered it really is a good pole and so light, quite tough too, way more than a true CF, it's around 20ft and  less bend than the unger 5 x 1.25m (20ft) section pole I used to use.
For a trial into modular it takes some beating.

Hi Guys, Alex is out working but I've just phoned him to check my facts!

The above pole is for a fibre glass pole, not a carbon pole.  Alex says its a great cheap pole if you are happy with fibre glass, it being 3x as heavy and 3x as flexible.  It also jams together easily as a past time!

You do get what you pay for.  The retail price for the top section of a carbon fibre pole without the strengthening is £69.99 from a fishing shop retailer, the next section down is £60.99 and the next section down from that is £69.99.  That's the price from a fishing shop retailer.  Obviously with that price you don't get the gooseneck, hose, brush, insulation, adjustable bung, joint treatment, 'joint-stops', strengthened top section and instruction manual.   :)

You really ought to check your facts more carefully ::)
1) I never said it was a CF pole, I said for £26 del it takes some beating as a trial into modular poles.
2)Just been out and weighed the zensorflex... it's 1.3kg for a 20ft, I've also got a "true" carbon pole @27ft and that weighs 1.2kg hardly 3 times as heavy :o  flexability is subjective all I can state again is it's stiffer than my unger but not as much as my CF, but 3 times as flexible......Hmmm.
And no it doesn't jam together easily, not in my experience with the pole.

Obviously you would rather folks spend £500+ on your superlite which is understandable, but trying to run us down for producing our own "cheapies"  is a bit rich ::)

Alex Gardiner

  • Posts: 7744
Re: Any Anglers here?
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2007, 10:35:46 am »
Hi Davew

Thanks for your reply.  It's me, Alex's wife (Alison) that got all protective!   :)

Uh Oh, I've just seen your post John.  I'm getting back to looking after the kids and I'll let Alex take over when he gets home.  Please accept my apologies if I have caused offense, I really wasn't trying to run anybody down!

Davew

Re: Any Anglers here?
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2007, 10:42:48 am »
It's always going to be difficult with suppliers and buyers sharing the same forum it's up to the individual which route they take. I have taken the safe but expensive route and been happy to do so. However I'm getting interested in trying the alternative ways now that my kit is established as I have nothing to loose. All I would say Alison is tap in a particular brand name into your search engine and look at the best prices and you will see where I'm coming from even if I've misunderstood what I'm looking at.

Alex Gardiner

  • Posts: 7744
Re: Any Anglers here?
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2007, 03:18:15 pm »
Hi Guys,

It's Alex back from work.

The Zensorflex weighs 1.2kg at 20ft you say John, well the 'Super-Lite' sections weigh only 360g at 20ft so this does equate to more than 3x the weight. Also I have measured the flex of both poles and compared with our 'Super-Lite' it is easily 3x as flexible, measured per degree of angle deviation at 20ft.

There, that's me being pedantic :)

Davew

For simple low level work as Alison said it is a great value little pole, but as a serious lightweight pole for commercial work it is never going to cut it. If you want to pick up cheap compatible sections then the Zensorflex number 3 section will perfectly fit the Super-Lite gooseneck, however if you want cheaper replacement carbon fibre sections you will need to stick with Maver Resolution sections 6-10. You may be able to pick these up second hand. Do not try to use the section Numbers 4 and 5 as these are far too fragile for window cleaning usage. For  the top section you will need a  Maver Super Taper section (code B4780 not the cheaper B3360) which I doubt you will find second-hand, also bear in mind that the Super-Lite top section you already have has been 'worked over' with carbon fibre reinforcement. There are many different Maver poles out there and not all are compatible with each other. For instance the Nebula pole you mention is a much cheaper (and heavier) pole, which would not perform half as well. The Grimreaper pole is also a cheaper pole (we do use these as extension sections sometimes as the 14.5m section is identical, bar labelling to our standard ones, the rest of the pole though is quite different)

There may be other makes of carbon poles out there that will fit your gooseneck but it will be trial and error finding them.

John.

We have never run anyone down for trying to produce their own 'cheapies', in fact recently we have helped several people on this forum with specialised parts that they have needed from us to complete their own converted fishing poles. We do however like to point out the real difference between the poles on the market, to those who are less familiar with these products. There is a very real performance difference between a pole that cost £250, but looks the same as one that costs £500. Our 'Super-Lite' sales whilst being quite impressive remain only a small percentage of our overall pole sales.

I have spent a long time researching many different brands and price brackets of Carbon poles for the 'Super-Lite project'. This has mainly been motivated, not by commercial interests, but by my desire to achieve the ultimate cleaning pole for my own commercial window cleaning firm.

 I have personally bought many different poles available on the market and tested, weighed, assessed and tried them out. Currently we are sticking with our slightly expensive  brand as it has the best balance of features for our window cleaning needs. However we are still striving to improve, we have 3 prototype poles from another major manufacturer that they have sent to us (at their own expense) to try out. I have also just purchased one of the latest Nanolith technology, Super Lithium, Carbon Fibre poles which is easily as stiff as the current pole but weighs about 450g less at 45ft, but with a retail price of nearly £800 for just the fishing pole which would reach 45ft I feel that it is 'too' much for anyone to consider as a cost effective pole.

I hope that this has helped you to understand the reason for our choice of product and why we charge our clients what we do.

Paul Coleman

Re: Any Anglers here?
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2007, 03:24:40 pm »
Davew,
I followed jeffs advice and tried this out,
http://www.fishtec-coarse.co.uk/ProductDetailInfoWithoutOptions.cfm?ID=FC-ZENSPOLE&ShopRef=40&Prime=Yes&shopListRec=30517
For around £26 delivered it really is a good pole and so light, quite tough too, way more than a true CF, it's around 20ft and  less bend than the unger 5 x 1.25m (20ft) section pole I used to use.
For a trial into modular it takes some beating.

Hi Guys, Alex is out working but I've just phoned him to check my facts!

The above pole is for a fibre glass pole, not a carbon pole.  Alex says its a great cheap pole if you are happy with fibre glass, it being 3x as heavy and 3x as flexible.  It also jams together easily as a past time!

You do get what you pay for.  The retail price for the top section of a carbon fibre pole without the strengthening is £69.99 from a fishing shop retailer, the next section down is £60.99 and the next section down from that is £69.99.  That's the price from a fishing shop retailer.  Obviously with that price you don't get the gooseneck, hose, brush, insulation, adjustable bung, joint treatment, 'joint-stops', strengthened top section and instruction manual.   :)

Aah !!  But it doesn't catch fish either.    :)

Paul Coleman

Re: Any Anglers here?
« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2007, 03:37:02 pm »
Hi Guys,

It's Alex back from work.

The Zensorflex weighs 1.2kg at 20ft you say John, well the 'Super-Lite' sections weigh only 360g at 20ft so this does equate to more than 3x the weight. Also I have measured the flex of both poles and compared with our 'Super-Lite' it is easily 3x as flexible, measured per degree of angle deviation at 20ft.


I find it astonishing that a pole could be that light.  When I met up with Tony Jardine (Sair) a while back for a brief road test, I nearly fell over while picking it up because I wasn't expecting it to be so light.  I've been used to using powerpoles - also an excellent pole IMO - so the surprise was understandable.  If I get some of the work I've been quoting for recently (larger commercial jobs with longish runs of windows), I reckon I will go the supalight route myself.
A quick question Alex.  When you lift the supalight from horizontal position on the ground, what is the longest length you could reasonably get away with without risking pole damage (or straining the body).  Obviously the body bit will vary.

Jon T.C.

  • Posts: 592
Re: Any Anglers here?
« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2007, 03:43:07 pm »
Why don't you fix the pole together vertically against the building you are cleaning, its easier and quicker.

regards Jon
Elite Cleaning Solutions

Alex Gardiner

  • Posts: 7744
Re: Any Anglers here?
« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2007, 03:54:19 pm »
We usually assemble the pole on the ground up to 40ft (unless space is restrictive) and then lean against the building and add extra sections.

We tend to assemble on the ground first as we find it is  easier to fix the Velcro straps on after pushing the sections together.




Paul Coleman

Re: Any Anglers here?
« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2007, 04:30:35 pm »
We usually assemble the pole on the ground up to 40ft (unless space is restrictive) and then lean against the building and add extra sections.

We tend to assemble on the ground first as we find it is  easier to fix the Velcro straps on after pushing the sections together.





40 ft sounds fine as that would cover most jobs.  Anyway, it's so light it shouldn't be a problem adding the extra sections vertically on your own with somewhere to lean the pole of course.
Thanks for the feedback Alex