[james cairns]

hi propole I also lift the brush off the glass at say 18ft but above 30ft I have started to rinse on the glass, basically because it is easier

its a case of trial and error, but you are right there should be guidelines to cleaning above 30ft because it becomes a different ball game from cleaning at 18ft

thats the problem with wfp being around for only 9 years no one has enough knowledge in  the scientific methods of using brushes in different ways, and maybe it is now ready for a bible on wfp

maybe this is an opening for you to write a book on the different techniques

jinky

[Pat Purcell]

there is a book available right now from somebody in dorset on ebay

[james cairns]

guys I have read with curiosity of guys rinsing on the glass, as I have just recently started this method for windows above 18ft

could you explain your technique and type of brush used

I noticed a few lads had the facelify pole, is the brush thats comes with the facelift pole equal to a salmon brush with single filament

I did get a brush from gaz which was a salmon brush with no jet just holes, have you since added jets to this brush, or do you use the holes like pencil jets

not criticising gaz brush if thats the way it comes, but was wondering to the guys who purchased gaz brush did they readapt it in anyway

any advice given highly appreciated

jinky

[P®oPole™]

Hi Jinky,

As you say up to 18ft is easy but once you get to 30 and above it starts to get a little tricky, you can try twisting the pole so the brush twists on the window keeping it off when rinsing but as some of us say there is no need providing your flow rate is high enough and technique is right.

Keep practising the brush on technique its hard to explain exactly how its done but I will say its more of an up down motion rather than side to side, once you get the technique you will be able to work both ways and probably save yourself from alot of painfull back aches in years to come.

As we said wfp has only been in the U.K for 9 years, how can we know for sure without any real evidence thats its ok to lift off and real evidence that brush on is ok. I do know that both ways can  give good and bad results, many factors have to be taken into account conditions of the window and oprative skills are a few.

Im glad you have at least tried this method mate and I sincerley hope that you get on with it and have good results.

Good Luck
Jinky



Mike,

Im still waiting for your reply, if you could find the time it would be much appreciated.

Alex

[Mike_Boxall]

Mike,

Im still waiting for your reply, if you could find the time it would be much appreciated.

Alex

It's personal preference isn't it. However, if you have first cleans, or particularly dirty windows that are cleaned infrequently, then rinsing off the glass reduces the risk of contamination. If, on the other hand, you're talking about regular cleans of large commercial buildings then you wouldn't want to lift the brush at anything above 25ft if you don't have to. The higher the flow rate you work with the more rinsing the brush gets and therefor the less risk there is of spotting.

Regards

Mike
 

[P®oPole™]

Hi Mike,

Thanks for taking the time to reply, while Im here I would like to tell you that I set up my business on a shoe string a few years ago with equipment from your company and still have alot of it now, If a freind never gave me your brochure I doubt I would be hear now.

Kind Regards
Alex

[jouk45]

mike,  what ever where you thinking about when you gave a brochure  to propoles friend, now we are in trouble 

[P®oPole™]

  I still have that brochure to this day.

Dont know how it got all the way down here to my friend, but I know from page 30 and 31 in that brochure I purchased equipment which would change the rest of my working life, I didnt have a clue where to look or buy window cleaning equipment, I didnt use the net or know of any suppliers then it was lucky that I came across the express brochure.

Many Thanks to Express.

[EasyClean]

If WFP users use a double trim brush with monofilaments made from nylon that retain the water, with the water flow turned up slightly higher than normal, using a 'SUITABLE' brush with the 'CORRECT' pole technique then they will have NO problems ever rinsing the panes of glass with the brush head resting against the glass. If you WFP users prefer to rinse with the wrong technique using unsuitable brushes then sooner, rather than later, your health problems will catch up with you.
One other thing to consider if you are an employer and you have instructed your employees to adopt a 'RINSE OFF' technique you are opening yourself up to claims for compensation from your employees later on in time if they have been taught the wrong technique from you resulting in their long term injuries.

[P®oPole™]

Good reply mate 

Easyclean has just summend it up in one post providing your technique is right, on the glass is fine, as I mentioned the other night I would never instruct anyone who worked for me to use the wrong technique of lifting poles off over 30ft, this could lead to pointing fingers in the future which I would not welcome with open arms, I will act today not tommorow, next month or year, I have comprehensive training plans and records to ensure relevant competencies are established and sustained which basically helps me sleep easy at night.

Turn your flow up a bit fellas and give it a go.

Regards
Alex

[Mike_Boxall]

Hi Mike,

Thanks for taking the time to reply, while Im here I would like to tell you that I set up my business on a shoe string a few years ago with equipment from your company and still have alot of it now, If a freind never gave me your brochure I doubt I would be hear now.

Kind Regards
Alex

Hi Alex

I'm glad we were able to help you get into window cleaning. I hope you're earning what you hoped you would - if not give me a call on 01684 565552......... In fact, if there's anyone out there not earning £40K+ you should really give me a call, as the window of opportunity is closing!

Regards

Mike  

[groundhog]

I think that anyone who is lifting poles at over 30ft up and down all day, every working day on a regular basis, is going to have problems with bad backs, necks and shoulders later in life, no matter if they rinse with the  brush on or off the glass, you can guarantee it! 

[jouk45]

the more we talk about this subject i notice the pole gets higher votes for folk rinsing of the glass,  but 10 years from now maybe propole could be right 

[groundhog]

I'm glad that I only use my pole when I have to, Its beginning to sound like ladders are far safer in the long term!!

[jouk45]

grounddog, we have taken the right decision  to go wfp,  But  if wfp was not available,   we would all be complaining about rsi in the knees and heels ect, climbing ladders,  if this forum was just about traditional window cleaning we would never hear the end of problems with ladders,   This is a young industry and a lot of questions will be asked and challenged, i think a few scientific  tests should be carried out by the suppiers, they could join  together and reduce the cost towards experiments to see if rsi is related to wfp work,

[Ian_Giles]

Any job with repetitive actions will be at risk of RSI problems, typist or window cleaner, it'll affect us all (or I should say it has the potential to affect us all)
Got a mobile phone?

Do you text a lot?

RSI is also a problem with those too.

The time spent working over 30 or 35 feet is pretty minimal, I have three big accounts I have to do this week, the one is closer to 45 ft rather than 35ft, the other two are around the 35ft mark, put all three together and they will total about 9 hours work.
add the time taken to clean the top floor of all 3 of them and it will add up to perhaps an hour at the maximum, about 20 minutes per building.
And those are the only ones this week, one hour out of 35 isn't bad I think.

Few of us will spend a long time working at that height at any given time.

Now if you were not doing that of a pole you would be doing it off a ladder, I have spend most of my window cleaning life doing these accounts off a ladder and it is way tougher and more dangerous off ladders!!
In fact I rated one of them too dangerous to do the top floor the last couple of years I was doing them off a ladder, and I didn't even know about WFP in those days either.

Each month I probably spend no more than 4 or 5 hours actually working above 30ft, very few of you with domestic accounts will equal that, remember, that is actual time spent working at that height!

And rinsing off the glass at that height, even if I rinsed off the glass as a matter of course, there is no way that I would on windows above 30ft, the strain is just too much on your body.

Ian

[groundhog]

Who knows what the future holds for you regular polers? My father has been climbing ladders all his life (he's a roofer) and he is still working every day, and he is 71 years old and fit as a fiddle. He believes that climbing ladders has kept him in shape! Its a much more natural action for your body than pushing a pole up and down all day and causes far less strain on the back and joints! Think about it

[Ian_Giles]

Groundhog,
I personally agree with you, climbing ladders is by and large good for you, helps keep your legs strong if nothing else.

But as a result of climbing them all my life, as I've said before, it almost ruined both of my knees, I needed keyhole surgery on the pair of them.

I dare say that there will be people who will have to stop using pole systems, their bodies may just not be able to stand up to the rigours it puts on them.

Carting around big heavy ladders all day also takes its toll, and ladders are an awful lot heavier than a pole.

Only time will tell us what eventually may befall long time users of extension poles, but I'll warrant that it won't equal the damage done to you using a ladder for the same length of time.

Ian

[groundhog]

I have to disagree with you on that last point Ian, just ask any chiropractor or austiopath. (I know the spellings are wrong)
 

[groundhog]

And the winner is

                         BRUSH OFF!!

Bad luck ProPole you can't win them all