[david68]

sorry thanks Tosh for the great notes of cleaning

Dave

[AuRavelling79]

OK I've been wfp for 18 months - changed my customers over in areas.

First commercial
Then a few 3 storey farm houses
Then detached and big semi's.

Finally council house semi's and small terraces in May this year.

To start with it was slow - then i got used to it, like I did when I started trad. up until May I used a trolley - then I went tank, microbore and backpack - it is like changing up a gear - so much faster and easier.

Today I did one of my village areas (Started late/finished early)

House 1  Detached old farmhouse mainly white aluminium in hardwood
House 2  Detached modern farm house mainly upvc
House 3  Large detached house mixture sliding sash real georgian and white upvc mock georgian.

House 4  (Next to house 3) fronts and side of single bay semi upvc
House 5  Fronts of detached house
House 6  Large Detached UPVC
House 7  Large Detached UPVC
House 8  Bungalow detached upvc (done trad)
House 9  Detached UPVC
House 10 Large semi next to above UPVC
House 11 Detached Hard wood

Being a numpty I left my small pole at house 1 but didn't miss it 'til I got to house 9 so went and checked at all the houses to see if I'd left it behind - I also had the opportunity to check the state of their windows and they were all fine.

It's taken me over a year to inform, train and change my customers over, to  become proficient in wfp as I was on ladders and my turnover went up by £5000 in year one - this year it looks like it will go up again. And I feel less tired at the end of each day.

I will never, ever ever - did I say ever? - ever go back to ladders.

More safe, more money, more confident and more professional.

Stick with it, do not be dictated to by your customers and reap the benefits.

[david68]

Malc great comments......\this makes me wanting to get my wfp back out to play



Dave

[Paul Coleman]

Malc great comments......\this makes me wanting to get my wfp back out to play



Dave

Yes.  I think the last bit that Malc said was the key point for me when he stated "...........do not be dictated to by your customers and reap the benefits."
I was a bit scared of them at first because I didn't have full confidence in the work method and maybe a few of them picked up on it.  As time has gone by I have gained in confidence with WFP.  It's all very well taking the view that we offer a service but that service has to be financially viable in order to continue.  By letting the customers dictate how we do the window cleaning is the proverbial tail wagging the dog.  If someone doesn't want WFP on their property, then they can find themself a traditional window cleaner.  I still use trad on a very few jobs but that's OK because the choice is MINE.

[neil100]

I do listen to the customers. If they say wfp is not as good as the trad clean. I will allways go back and check my work. Out of my entire round I have only switched one customer back to trad downstairs.

I do odd customers trad, these I have never done wfp cos I know the finnish will not be up to my high standards.

I also have 6 small terrace houses all next to each other, These i do trad because it was a nightmare trying to wfp the back windows in their tiny yards, all seam to lock their gates so its up and over.

I have lost about 5 customers who did not like the water dripping down, all old people by the way. One customer cancelled this week saying his wife said she did not want them cleaning anymore due to my son leaving them dirty last time with wfp. I called back that evening to see her, I have never lost a customer due to bad work so I thought go and give her some TLC. Well blow my socks off. They where not dirty she expected him to squegee the windows off, when he never did she thought we where takeing the Michael. So I explained to her how wfp works, I told her I had explained it to her husband when I started useing wfp. CARRY ON CLEANING THEM she said.

Could Groundhog explain how you brainwash somebody into wfp?

Am I a seller of wfp? NO

I have used wfp for 8 months, and I think its fantastic. I have done trad w/c for 26 years so I know my onions as far as w/c is concerned. Sorry Groundhog but I think your view is utter Tripe.

Did a customer today, it was her second clean. It costs them £21 a go. I allways ask customers with wooden frames if the finnish was up to standard when useing wfp. Her reply. " I thought it was just sales talk, all this about pure water, when you called last month. My windows were Filthy so I thought get him to clean them, then cancell due to them not being as clean as they should. I was totally dumstruck, I checked every window and every window was perfect. They are the cleanest windows I have ever paid for. Thankyou as they say it did what it said on the tin.

So if you cant clean them Correctly with wfp. Its down to user error.

Nel.

[james cairns]

GuysI dont think you are seeing the bigger pic where groundhog is concerned

he has told you that he uses wfp on commercial and large domestic and thinks it is a great tool

but simply finds it a hassle on run of the mill houses like terraced semi small detached, like carrying backpacks on back stopping refilling with water constant
or using a trolley and you can get it arounf the backs and you run hoses and they get caught on wheely bins or hedges or garden furniture  and washing lines

or you run a van mount or a trailer and you need to reload the gear back into the trailer or van move it a few feet bring the stuff back out and go thru the same hassle.If you are going to criticise the guy at least see where he is coming from. wfp works for some guys but like myself as well as groundhog
it is so much easier to carrier a ladder and thats all for run of the mill houses that dont pay a lot and you need to clock up the numbers he is not critising wfp for standards but basically saying for his type of work he does not like the hassle

the guy should be allowed to come on and express his views as all views are different

only my view

jinky

[Sir Squeaky]

Well said Jinky.
He's basically said what I think on the subject.

If I had (or knew I was going to get) loads of big commercial work, I'd have a wfp system. Honest, I would!

Just not worth the bother on houses though.

[Paul Coleman]

Well said Jinky.
He's basically said what I think on the subject.

If I had (or knew I was going to get) loads of big commercial work, I'd have a wfp system. Honest, I would!

Just not worth the bother on houses though.

When I awaken in the morning, I am going to log on to this thread and see that Squeaky's last post has disappeared.  I will then realise that I WAS dreaming after all

[windows_chepstow]

Roger (Squeaks) needs to get some new ladders; ones with rubber feet; ladders that aren't worn down to the bare and bent alluminium; before he starts thinking about getting a WFP.

If he can't afford a servicable set of ladders; he's got no chance in affording a WFP set up.

I'll donate him some yellow feet.

[james cairns]

squeaky us guys are just trying to be up front and give an honest view of wfp

I think wfp is great on commmercial because I have plenty of access  to clean the windows

but I do typical modern estates an a typical eg is as follows

4 bedroom detach with window over garage with 4x4 parked in the driveway beneath the window you are nearly climbing all over the vehicle to get the window at the same time trying to avoid touching the car.

you then go down the narrow lane at the side which is the size of a 3x2 slab
with snib at the top so the gear is put  down and you jump trying to reach this snib as before you just went up a step on the ladder to get the snib
gear back in hand and you need to go down this narrow lane with 3 wheely bins to get pass as the council has decided to recycle everything insight

now you reach the back and the garden furniture is right inline of the path of the pole for cleaning the windows, so the gear goes down again and you move the furniture to make a path for the pole to move forward and back when cleaning, and when I say garden furniture I am talking about table ,chairs heaters, barbeque and  planters and also  trying to avoid the kids trikes

if this is not hassle then you guys must have a lot of patience

as I said at the begining I am just trying to give an honest view and if new guys going into wfp have the same type of work they just might step back and say thanks for saving me a few bob

I still use wfp in domestic of this type but it is combined with ladders, I check out the danger windows by ladder which is usualy one or 2 on most houses on roofs and these windows are done with the backpack in the morning then the backpack is parked and the ladders are off to complete the houses, this way i know I am operating in a safe manner with as little hassle as possible

jinky

[pjulk]

If I had (or knew I was going to get) loads of big commercial work, I'd have a wfp system. Honest, I would!

He's starting to turn   

[Paul Coleman]

squeaky us guys are just trying to be up front and give an honest view of wfp

I think wfp is great on commmercial because I have plenty of access  to clean the windows

but I do typical modern estates an a typical eg is as follows

4 bedroom detach with window over garage with 4x4 parked in the driveway beneath the window you are nearly climbing all over the vehicle to get the window at the same time trying to avoid touching the car.

you then go down the narrow lane at the side which is the size of a 3x2 slab
with snib at the top so the gear is put  down and you jump trying to reach this snib as before you just went up a step on the ladder to get the snib
gear back in hand and you need to go down this narrow lane with 3 wheely bins to get pass as the council has decided to recycle everything insight

now you reach the back and the garden furniture is right inline of the path of the pole for cleaning the windows, so the gear goes down again and you move the furniture to make a path for the pole to move forward and back when cleaning, and when I say garden furniture I am talking about table ,chairs heaters, barbeque and  planters and also  trying to avoid the kids trikes

if this is not hassle then you guys must have a lot of patience

as I said at the begining I am just trying to give an honest view and if new guys going into wfp have the same type of work they just might step back and say thanks for saving me a few bob

I still use wfp in domestic of this type but it is combined with ladders, I check out the danger windows by ladder which is usualy one or 2 on most houses on roofs and these windows are done with the backpack in the morning then the backpack is parked and the ladders are off to complete the houses, this way i know I am operating in a safe manner with as little hassle as possible

jinky

Yes I appreciate what you are saying about the potential hassles of domestic.  I do have a few jobs as you describe (minus the lane) and it can be irritating.  I just put up with it and if it persists, I put up the price.

[Paul Coleman]

If I had (or knew I was going to get) loads of big commercial work, I'd have a wfp system. Honest, I would!

He's starting to turn   

Shall I lend him a broom and electric drill ?   

[Sir Squeaky]

Really I would.
I'd just need a big commercial round to merit it.

Oh yeah, and a different house where I could fill my van without running a hose through my house and down 14 steps.... :

Funny you should say that about the ladder Tosh.
The only times it ever slipped a bit was when the feet were on it.

Metal against concrete is a seriously abrasive contact.
More so than rubber against concrete.
It's solid now.
Wrong I know, but it just doesn't budge....

Oh, and I'm not on the turn, that's "bottoms" Tosh.

[Ian_Giles]

Stick with it, you'll get there in the end.

There is a steep learning curve, just as when you first started cleaning windows the trad way, it takes time to get the hang of everything and do a decent job.
Don't try and be fast, be patient and thorough.

If you can tag along for a day with an experienced WFP user in your area then you will find this a massive help, there are sure to be a few that are within an hour or 2 from you that will help you out.
The guys from Ionics also run a course too, not expensive and well worth attending....just bear in mind that it to do the job to the standard they are showing does NOT mean you have to buy or use their equipment!!

Domestic work is fine done WFP, not all accounts are a nightmare to deal with, and if there are trikes, BBQ's, garden heaters, tents, shrubbery, paddling pools and god knows what else in the way, well they are also in the way of you using a ladder too.
You have to plan effectively, you work differently with WFP and hoses than you do with ladders.
In general, trad is quicker with regards moving around, and slapping your gear back on your vehicle, but the gains you make on the actual window cleaning by and large more than make up for it.

My best accounts?
Well priced domenstic work, preferably the larger houses, usually stand alone accounts, but even my normal 3 bed semi's pay well, and I certainly could not do them quicker using trad, and like Neil, I've been in this job over 22 years, and I too know me onions!!

Ian

[Moderator David@stives]

Rog

 Metal against concrete is not safer than rubber against concrete .

Dave

[paul mather]

I think some of you guys over estimate the problems in switching over to WFP.

I decided to change my whole round over in one go, none of this faffing around changing it in stages. One month later no customers lost & 2 small moans & that's it.

As for paying compamnies for WFP training I think you must be having a laugh!!! If you have even the slightest bit of common sense you will very quickly pick it up as you go along.

My wife has cleaned our windows at home & I would gladly pay for the job she did & she's never used the thing before or cleaned a window trad before.

If we are not careful we could be guilty of putting people off swapping over to WFP. It's not some sort of mystic tool that we should be scared of.

As Nike say "Just Do It "

[williamx]

Funny you should say that about the ladder Tosh.
The only times it ever slipped a bit was when the feet were on it.

I though you said that you have never had a dodgy moment with using ladders, well if the ladder has slipped its sound like a dodgy and possible life stopping moment to me.

[Sir Squeaky]

Life stopping moment? :

I had one move a bit on a mossy patio once, and it wriggled about an inch and then was fine.

Oh, so scary. :
What a bunch of fairies window cleaners have become.

Try driving to the shop, it's 10 times more dangerous.

[Trevor Knight]

I had one move a bit on a mossy patio once, and it wriggled about an inch and then was fine.

Glad that on that occassion you didn't have a bad fall.

Some others haven't been so lucky