[williamx]

Yawn, same old safety crap.

Never ever even been close to falling off.
I've got a little bit more balance than that.... :

What about the blood of the pedestians or the customer when they trip over your dangerous hose?

What about the smashed in face of a small child who slips on an unexpectedly slippery doorway?
The mother's face when she sees her little darling carted away?

Wfp users in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.....

If this happens as often as you are saying then why don't you show us the proof.

Where are the newspaper headlines?

Where are the accidents reports from the hospitals?

Where are the outraged customers who have slipped outside their home?

Where is the data that the Heath and Safety office would compile if these accidents happened?

Do the Royal Society for the prevention of accidents know about this great danger to public safety?

Do they send out guidelines to the general public about the perils of wfp cleaning?

There are plenty are the above that ladder use have had reported, but I have never heard anything about wfp cleaning.

[windows_chepstow]

Yawn, same old safety crap.

Never ever even been close to falling off.
I've got a little bit more balance than that.... :

Squeaky (Roger),

I don't believe you haven't been close to a fall or had one of those 'dodgy' moments.

No way.  Another lie.  There's no way you can climb a ladder around 100 times per day, say you work fast, and not have any close 'calls'; at all.  I can't believe that.

Especially on those dodgy looking ladders you use with no rubber feet on them; worn down to the bare alluminium; which is all bent and splayed.

If you're so fast, you should be coining it in; therefore should be able to afford a decent set of ladders at least!

If you can't afford a set of new ladders, hacksaw the bent couple of inches from the bottom of each ladder and insert some rubber feet; they're not expensive; I'll even give you a set if you call round my house for free.

[AuRavelling79]

Yawn, same old safety crap.

Never ever even been close to falling off.
I've got a little bit more balance than that.... :

What about the blood of the pedestians or the customer when they trip over your dangerous hose?

What about the smashed in face of a small child who slips on an unexpectedly slippery doorway?
The mother's face when she sees her little darling carted away?

Wfp users in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.....

Squeaky,

Falling from a ladder can be deadly, maiming - leave you in a wheelchair, on crutches, poohing in a bag or being fed like a baby.

To declare to all that it won't/cannot happen to you shows breathtaking stupidity and I just hope no newbie to this forum is influenced by it.

Yes we and others can trip over a hose or a bucket but unless the accident is freakishly unusual it won't be life threatening or brain damaging.

[james cairns]

guys I think trad and wfp in the future on domestic will go hand in hand


most houses have windows with at least 80 per cent of the house can be done safely from a ladder, it is the windows on roof slippy decks or unjet surfaces that makes the job dangerous, for this i clean the 80 per cent of the house

then stop about 3pm and go back and catch the odd window that was unsafe with ladders, with a backpack this way the customer gets good results as i can see what I am leaving, the job is safe because i have liminated the danger areas and covered this with wfp and the customer is satisfied that I have operated in a safe maner and accepts the odd run from wfp if it sdoes occur.

I dont think you need to go all out wfp but operate in a safe manner - if it be ladders or wfp

jinky

[Sir Squeaky]

If this happens as often as you are saying then why don't you show us the proof.

Where are the newspaper headlines?

Where are the accidents reports from the hospitals?

Where are the outraged customers who have slipped outside their home?

Where is the data that the Heath and Safety office would compile if these accidents happened?

Do the Royal Society for the prevention of accidents know about this great danger to public safety?

Do they send out guidelines to the general public about the perils of wfp cleaning?

There are plenty are the above that ladder use have had reported, but I have never heard anything about wfp cleaning.

Give it time.

ALL those quotas above will be filled.
Enjoy it while it lasts.

Mark my words.

[williamx]

Wfp cleaning has been used for the last 30 to 40 years, so if it hasn't happen yet how long should we wait.

[Moderator David@stives]

One thing i do agree with is trailing hoses are a real hazard to the general public.

It is only a matter of time before we hear of a few accidents happening.

Dave

[Ian_Giles]

Guys, if this is going to mutate into a safety issue then I'm going to lock it.

If you wish to debate safety then start a fresh thread.

Ian

[AuRavelling79]

Go to the new safety thread - "Which is safer WFP or Ladders?"

[dai]

This has turned into another full blown trad against WFP argument. Roger your a trad window cleaner, and the majority still are. It's your choice mate.
I built my own system having been inspired by Matt, and it cost me about £600 in all. I spent a hell of a lot more on diving gear and don't dive any more.
I continue to use WFP from choice, If I wasn't happy with it I would dump it, but I am very happy with it. I never hear those dreaded words,"they were a bit streaky last time". I always try and do a perfect job, but like Ian says, it may look perfect when I leave it, but when the detailing dries it can leave a mark.
I, like a few others on here am 12 months or so into WFP. ok, There may be a few spots now and again on the odd pane, these are more noticable when I do inside and out jobs. when I did these jobs trad on sunny days I could see streaks too and they are a lot more noticeable.
 In truth I get no complaints with WFP. I can't do a house in 10 mins with it either. I think I am taking too long making sure it's a good job, and as an old un my technique may not be as quick as the young ones. On some jobs I am a lot quicker with WFP. I can do tops a lot faster than I can do the bottoms for some reason, so I often do the bottoms trad.
Now to get back to your original thread. I once had a good guy working with me.
We had an estate of houses that had lead fronts and plain backs. I was doing the fronts and he did the backs. If the glass was reasonably clean I could do the fronts a hell of a lot quicker than he could squeegy the backs.
The secret? I was just using a clean damp scrim. I could do about 3 houses before changing scrims, but they have to be clean and damp. Dai

[Sir Squeaky]

Dai you're alright in my book.

An on-topic post!

[neil100]

Do you fold your scrims Dai?

I have allways folded scrims, It gives you a total of 32 clean sides to one scrim.
When one side is dirty turn over. You should find that it will last a lot longer then three houses.

I hate to see w/c with their scrim all scrunched up.

Nel.

[Ian_Giles]

You should ask Squeaks how much he spends on his photobraphic equipment!! !!

With regards folding scrims, microfibre and so on: Mine often start out folded, but often on leaded work, the lead drags against the cloth...within a short time it's unravelled into an untidy mop
But I've found little difference myself, so long as you keep rotating your cloth you'll be ok.
And squeaks, if you are daft enough to mention WFP in the same breath as trad, and are talking about speed, then of course people will mention WFP and compare times!!!

Perhaps it is actually getting to the point when there needs to be a separate section for Trad and a separate one for WFP, this way any thread started on one or the other topic can't get hijacked into trad V WFP (usually by Squeaky himself!)

Something I also meant to mention regards speed with leaded V squeegee:

Roger claims he is quicker doing a leaded with a Microfibre cloth than he is doing a similar window that is not leaded with a squeegee.
If this was so then surely you would use the same method on windows of a similar size that were not leaded. Patio doors and big plate windows you would of course do with a squeegee.
But were you to clean these others windows with a cloth, once the sun shines on them they would be as smeary as hell, and in truth, to get a job that would equal the finish given by squeegee-ing and detailing would take far longer than it would with the said squeegee were you to use just a spray and micro cloth (or damp micro/scrim)

I started window cleaning over 22 years ago, I was using chamois leather's to clean windows, including big panes and patio windows.
Damn hard work I can tell you, and a high level of skill is required to obtain a top finish.
But it would not equal the finish you could get with a squeegee, you could of course be quite quick too, but the squeegee was less effort, did a consistantly better job, was almost always faster and left you better off and less exhausted at the end of the day (Am I ringing any bells here )

So the actual job you are doing on leaded windows, if looked at properly is highly unlikely to be of an equal standard to those done with squeegee.
I don't use WFP on everything remember, I use all methods and am continually comparing results.
I know how to use all methods and can achieve top results with any of them (including Chamois leather, very few window cleaners, unless they have cut their teeth on Chamois can say that).

Anyway, my new computer has just arrived

I'm off!!

Ian

[Jason Atwell]

I disagree, i dont think there is a need to seperate into a trad and a wfp forum. If you dont agree or you dont like what some one has posted then dont reply, keep to the original thread if thats what you want to do, from what i can see there is already 'a them and us' situation happening between some wc.
I think to seperate the forum would only make this worse.
And also what some people write can come across wrong, when some one else reads it, so come on, lets live and let live.