[Sir Squeaky]

Squeaky you took your time to reply, as for a ripp off please refrain from comments like that in future I dont appreciate it. My time experiment shut you up for a couple of hours you didnt no what to say and you come back with that perfetic remark.

Shut me up for a couple of hours?
I didn't check back for a while that's why.
I haven't got to spend my life on here sorting out wfp problems. Lol

As for not appreciating it.....

Well I don't appreciate starting a thread about traditional leaded window cleaning and having certain wfp users who are up their own arses bring their brand of "cleaning" into it.
Just boasting to hide an inferiority complex?

You moan enough if I post on a wfp thread.
Double standards. :

I'll leave this for a bit to give you chance to write more crap on my trad thread, then I'll be locking it later.

Thanks (not), Rog.

[JM123]

squeeks I've stood up for you a few times in the past but sometimes you are just too set in your ways - remembre mate, nearly all of us wfpers cut our teeth with trad, many of us still use it now, its a matter of whats best for the job, hence why we still use trad for some ground floor jobs, but saying that wfp is better for 95% of our work.  So CHILL OUT for  a while - ps locking your own thread is admission of defeat.

[Pj]

To cut a long story short PJ, would you say that there's one rule for some and a different rule for the rest of us??

Yes definitely, but you know they won't agree!

If this was started as a "Trad" topic, maybe Squeaky should re-read the first sentence of his first post!  It is nothing more than another pointless squabble.

[JM123]

Don't reckon I'd be that far off.

A few minutes behind maybe, but then no time putting everything away.
Not that I'd bother with stuff that high anyway.(probably)

Who's parked a girly coloured van in front of it?

you'd be breaking the law anyway squeeks if you done that work with your ladders - saying that I've gone higher with ladders before going wfp

[AuRavelling79]

Not that I'd bother with stuff that high anyway.(probably)

OK Roger you have admitted here that third floor is an unlikely candidate for you so all window cleaners on here now realise that ladder work has its limitations (ie anything above second floor- as well as above steep tiled porches, conservatories etc).

I clean the windows above the railings only and theres three other standard windows per flat, in the pic im not acually cleaning im starting to move the pole to the next window.

I have a block like this (three floors tho', not four) and with a small brush head I get between the railings to scrub and then above to rinse.


Squeaky - I really think that your strident objections to wfp after other window cleaners have started to use it, overcome its start-up difficulties and work more safely and profitably with it sounds like you're beginning to "whistle through the graveyard".

[Ian_Giles]

Roger, you are wrong, you would not even be close, you know the place and you can check out my work, its out there for all to check.
For one thing your ladder isn't big enough, but you want to have a go at matching the time I have taken I'll lend you my big three tier ladder to do the high ones with.

Trad wioll not get close, you are welcome to try and do it at race speed if you like, and I will openly admit that in that respect, WFP will always come second, but yo can race all you like and I don't care who you are, you won't beat WFP on this job.

I can do this job probably 5 minutes quicker, but I chose to do it with 2 moves of the van, it's a big building and it is just easier for me to do it in the two moves, but any trad guy wants to race me, feel free

And Roger....it was you that brought WFP into this thread, check out your first couple of sentences!!

I will wholeheartedly agree that there is very little time difference between trad and WFP on a standard estate house, but on any large job, and the larger the job, the bigger the time differential between the two methods.
The job I have highlighted is perhaps a tad unfair, it looks simple I know, but it is a fairly high 3 storey building and there are 30 units to clean (one isn't shown)
This is not a job where trad cannot compete time wise, lets face it, I would not have put it up there if it was...would I.

But this job was done comfortably within 30 minutes with WFP, have a walk around it Squeaks, try and find fault with the work I've done, you'll be hard pressed to do so.

As I have said, I'm prepared to stand up and be counted. (and by a WFP hater at that!)

Roger has also aluded to shops that are not done to an acceptable standard, now I don't know whether he is meaning myself or someone else, but if it is me, then I would certainly like to know which shops he is possibly alluding to.
I can think of only one commercial account that I do WFP where I would get a better finish doing it trad.
I will also be more than happy to contact the manager of the shop or premises in question and ask them if they too can find fault with the work that I do.

Ian

[Clear Vision]

Hi ian,

I know this Is a bit off the subject but could you send me some pics (If you have any) of your van setup?

I am thinking of going for a van simillar to your one.

Cheers

Matthew
Clear Vision

[abacus]

Hi
and my dads bigger than your dad !

brag brag brag read pjs contribution it makes sense

some people from both sides of this "debate" just look without reading what is the point if you are not willing to even consider others view

So sqeaky is as fast as wfp system great but since he doesnt work for me and since Im old enough to be his father its all abit irellivant for me what s quickest whats best for each person each job taking into account all our indivual circomstances thats whats important so often these threds desend into slanging matches

So sqeakys pleased with his time
ian giles is pleased with his
polemans working so fast his shirts fallen off  and if I am still wondering what the point of this thread is and can anything be gained from it ?

confused grant

[groundhog]

If wfp is so superior why do wfp window cleaners get so many more cancellations, I will tell you why - spots, runs, water coming through to the inside, water running down walls, water all over the patio and garden, customers worried about the affect on the enviroment of wasting so much water, windows left wet!

[Sir Squeaky]

High prices.... :

 

[groundhog]

Thanks Squeaky I forgot that one!   Also as one of my customers said to me when I tried wfp, "thats a lot af hassle just to clean windows when you used to do the same job just as well,and with a lot less mess with a bucket and squeegee!"

[williamx]

Why is it that some people think that the only way you can clean windows is to use a dirty bucket of water, a dirty rag and a squeegee. 

Why can't you clean these windows differently, what makes the old methods so infallible?

Both roger and groundhog are so anti wfp that they slag it off at a moments notice, this is their prerogative, but surly they should be proficient in the use of wfp first, if they have not used it, then they cannot pass judgement so severely.

They might say that their customers have had bad experience's so this proves that wfp cleaning is crap.

Well I am 100% sure that all trad cleaners have had their own complaints, from their own customers at some time in their lives.

Yes you are going to have some people who will not change over from trad to wfp cleaning for whatever reasons they care to give.

Yes you are going to leave their windows wet and water will go down the wall and some will fall onto their patio, this will only happen once a month when they have their windows cleaned but it will also happen every time it rains, which is more often.

Some customers might be worried about the amount of water that is used, when we seem to be running out of the stuff, they are so worried that they stop watering their gardens and washing their cars on Sundays afternoons.  I don't think so.

I personally coundn't care less whether you clean windows by trad methods of wfp or any other method that might be invented in the future.

All I care about is that a true and balanced view is taken by people who have the experience to give it.  Not by bigots who are putting new cleaners in the trade off using other cleaning methods, which might give them a better income or even save their life.

[JM123]

you know this whole debate has really got boring, I couldnay care less, I KNOW I make more money using wfp, I KNOW it does a better job - Squeeky KNOWS I am wrong etc etc.

Any chance of someone starting a new thread - one where the trad's don't hijack it into becoming a trad v wfp dispute.

[Ian_Giles]

This was always going to be trad V WFP as squeaks mentioned WFP in his initial post.
Whether it benefits anyone I don't know, but you can at least read both viewpoints.

Squeaks is from observation only, he doesn't really know the first thing about WFP and until he actually uses it he never will either.
Groundhog says about leaving windows wet, hoses trailing all over the shop, spots over all the windows, cancellations left right and centre.
Were you considering changing from trad to WFP, if you listened to these two you woldn't touch it with a barge pole!!

You CAN do every bit as good a job with WFP as you can with trad, it's safer, takes less physical effort and is almost certainly quicker in just about every situation. a standard window will take you about 30 seconds with WFP as against 90 seconds trad.
It's slower to drag out hoses and pack them away again that throwing your ladder on the roof rack, but even on a small, stand alone house, with practice and planning you will be at least as quick as trad.
There will always be a handful who are lightning fast with trad (though most aren't as fast as they think they are) but most of us fall into roughly the same bandwidth, and by and large you will be quicker with WFP.
The quality of the finished job is down to the individual, and that holds true with trad every bit as much with WFP.

More expensive than trad?
Well not in my case, but my prices are competetive with trad window cleaners, you don't need to charge more to make more.

In all my replies I try to say what the average person can do, not what a budding Turbo Terry Burrows can do.
The photos I've posted on this thread of the job I did?
Well I would expect most people using WFP to do it in a similar time, however it will have to be a very special person indeed who could match that time doing it trad.

Ian

[Sir Squeaky]

Actually it was only mentioned because it's all you bang on about Ian.

It wasn't a comparison of that if you actually read it.
It was leaded vs normal panes.

As usual wfp users had to pipe up. :

[paul mather]

Squeaky,

Just wondered how fast you will be when you have the inevitable fall. If you are as fast as you say you are & have been cleaning for some time that serious fall could be just around the corner mate, then lets see you bombing up that ladder with your arm in plaster.

Also the reason most of us WFPers think are sytems are great is that we have done both, trad & WFP.


AND YOU HAVEN'T.

So until you try it, (which I know you won't, cos you are  stuck in your ways) don't knock it.

[Paul Coleman]

Thanks Squeaky I forgot that one!   Also as one of my customers said to me when I tried wfp, "thats a lot af hassle just to clean windows when you used to do the same job just as well,and with a lot less mess with a bucket and squeegee!"

I wonder what he would say about the "mess" if you shed your blood on his/her patio.  They would get another window cleaner like a shot and complain about the red stains you left.  Not being nasty but it can happen to anyone.  I had a couple of near misses some years ago and a relatively recent one just before I started with WFP.  I spoke to the hairdresser recently who called the ambulance for thewindow cleaner who was working on the Thai restaurant next door.  He told me that blood was coming out of his head and that he thought he wouldn't survive.  Fortunately, the early fears for that window cleaner were unfounded and he re-started work again recently - in spite of weeks of hospitalisation with a brain hemmorage..  To this day, he remembers nothing about his fall or the few days afterwards.  I'm not making this up.  It all happened barely half a mile from my home.

[Paul Coleman]

If wfp is so superior why do wfp window cleaners get so many more cancellations, I will tell you why - spots, runs, water coming through to the inside, water running down walls, water all over the patio and garden, customers worried about the affect on the enviroment of wasting so much water, windows left wet!

Admittedly there are a some jobs that are of lower quality than WFP.  However, the world is moving on and the rewgulatory bodies are becoming more health and safety concious.  Some customers with a certain type of window will just have to accept a lower standard of work in exchange for worker safety.  I agree that it's not a nice choice but that's how the world is going.  I must say though that I'm not anti trad.  I use a ladder sometimes when it's impractical not to.

[Sir Squeaky]

Yawn, same old safety crap.

Never ever even been close to falling off.
I've got a little bit more balance than that.... :

What about the blood of the pedestians or the customer when they trip over your dangerous hose?

What about the smashed in face of a small child who slips on an unexpectedly slippery doorway?
The mother's face when she sees her little darling carted away?

Wfp users in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.....

[Paul Coleman]

Yawn, same old safety crap.

Never ever even been close to falling off.
I've got a little bit more balance than that.... :

What about the blood of the pedestians or the customer when they trip over your dangerous hose?

What about the smashed in face of a small child who slips on an unexpectedly slippery doorway?
The mother's face when she sees her little darling carted away?

Wfp users in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.....

Well Rog it is more at the forefront of my mind since that guy nearly died down the road from me.  I don't know him well but I often stopped for a quick chat with him.  I know you've used smileys but as for the hose, if the hose crosses the public right of way, I do have some rubber safety matting to cover it.  It's black matting with yellow edging too so it stands out a bit.  Admittedly, the hose isn't covered on all the property but at least the customer won't be tripping over any buckets of water