Interested In Advertising? | Contact Us Here
Warning!

 

Welcome to Clean It Up; the UK`s largest cleaning forum with over 34,000 members

 

Please login or register to post and reply to topics.      

 

Forgot your password? Click here

Sir Squeaky

  • Posts: 8341
Re: An time experiment...
« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2006, 09:48:26 pm »
I never said it was quicker than wfp!!!!!!!!!! >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

Why can't people listen?

This is exactly what annoys me about this forum.
Nobody can talk about anything without someone waffling on about poxy water fad poles.

I said (again) that I could do a lot of leaded stuff quicker than squeegee panes.

Quick spray, quick microfibre buff.
Instead of wash, squeegee, detail, wipe sill.

Oh yeah, and wfp doesn't look more professional at all.
It just looks like your lazily brushing it and not even drying it.
Any fool can do it, and it doesn't look skillful to the public.
People stop to watch me, and they're impressed by the art of squeegeeing.


JM123

  • Posts: 2095
Re: An time experiment...
« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2006, 09:52:01 pm »
well if its quicker to spray and buff , why don'tyou do that on all the windows?
Live life in the fast lane.......if you break down you'll freewheel further

Ballymena N.I

neil100

  • Posts: 1137
Re: An time experiment...
« Reply #22 on: August 24, 2006, 09:58:42 pm »
I have just read the start of this thread, I dont want it to turn into a wfp v trad debate or a squeaks bashing session, We know were you stand on the subject.

But just a point on leaded windows, I do two houses next to each other that have old Trad leaded windows. To clean both houses trad last year it took me 2hrs 40 min. They are £30 each, so not a bad earner trad then.

They now take me 55mins to do both, A good earner for me, a darn site quicker then trad, but to be honest I could clean them an hell of a lot quicker then 55mins. I am in slow motion but I dont want to be to quick.

What do the customers think of the job done. They tell me the finnish from wfp is far superior then cleaning it the old way. Are you sure you dont want us to pay more.

The customer is always right. (MOSTLY).

Nel.

Sir Squeaky

  • Posts: 8341
Re: An time experiment...
« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2006, 10:02:52 pm »
well if its quicker to spray and buff , why don'tyou do that on all the windows?
It's harder work obviously.
But you don't want to be squeegeeing lead.

jeff evans

Re: An time experiment...
« Reply #24 on: August 24, 2006, 10:10:10 pm »
well if its quicker to spray and buff , why don'tyou do that on all the windows?

Umm might try that tomorrow, if it works for one why not for the other.

neil100

  • Posts: 1137
Re: An time experiment...
« Reply #25 on: August 24, 2006, 10:13:54 pm »
Oh yeah, and wfp doesn't look more professional at all.
It just looks like your lazily brushing it and not even drying it.
Any fool can do it, and it doesn't look skillful to the public.
People stop to watch me, and they're impressed by the art of squeegeeing. Quote from Squeaks.

Any fool can be a w/c squeaks, Trad or wfp. The quality of finnish sorts the amatuer from the proffesional.

Any true master of his job will allways make it look easier then it is. It may look like I am Lazily brushing a window. But if you were to watch me long enough you would think I was an artist with the deft and accurate handling of my pole.

Squeegeeing does look good, I will agree on that point, thats why I still do it with my 18" blade. Not all w/c are adapt with a squeege of that length, But it does feel good doing a big window, no wonder they are useing Squeegeeing in the latest Ford Transit advert.

Nel.

macc

Re: An time experiment...
« Reply #26 on: August 24, 2006, 10:35:25 pm »
I never said it was quicker than wfp!!!!!!!!!! >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

Why can't people listen?

This is exactly what annoys me about this forum.
Nobody can talk about anything without someone waffling on about poxy water fad poles.

I said (again) that I could do a lot of leaded stuff quicker than squeegee panes.

Quick spray, quick microfibre buff.
Instead of wash, squeegee, detail, wipe sill.

Oh yeah, and wfp doesn't look more professional at all.
It just looks like your lazily brushing it and not even drying it.
Any fool can do it, and it doesn't look skillful to the public.
People stop to watch me, and they're impressed by the art of squeegeeing.



Looks like some one is throwing their toys ouy the pram again.  ;D

Sir Squeaky

  • Posts: 8341
Re: An time experiment...
« Reply #27 on: August 24, 2006, 11:06:15 pm »
I only wanted Gilesy to read it, but now he's going to think I started trouble. :(

3 pages of replies in one day, and about half a dozen posts on-topic....

Ian_Giles

  • Posts: 2997
Re: An time experiment...
« Reply #28 on: August 24, 2006, 11:32:28 pm »
If microfibre is so fast are you going to throw away your squeegee?
No, of course you are not!

And I will lay a pound to a penny that if looked at properly the squeegee work you did will have had not smears at all, but in direct sunlight, even allowing for the lead missdirecting your eyes, there will be smears.

Atthis point I'm going to tar just about every window cleaner with the same brush and have everyone spluttering indignantly, so apologies for being contentious!!

All work done with a cloth will leave smears.

It may look spotless, and you may well have done a top job, but if the sun is at the right angle those smears will show (if you know how to look for them)

Don't forget, I use this method of cleaning on a lot of work, and anyone who has seen my work (squeaky included) will tell you I am a good window cleaner, and I'm fussy too.
But if you are rubbing the glass with a cloth (of any description) Get the light right and you will see.

The point I am trying to highlight is that if you are racing against yourself, with spray and microfibre you can go like the clappers but it won't mean your job is inch perfect.
You will of course deny this, 'My job was perfect when I finished it' you may say, but it won't be.
With the squeegee you follow a technique, the whole of the pane is cleaned, and detailed as required, you have to blade all of the water off the glass.

I'm not going to dispute Roger's timing, I believe him, and I'm quite sure he would happily duplicate his results if challenged, and I'm equally sure he did a good job too.
That isn't to say I couldn't find errors mind :P

A standard casement window is one small opening light, one tall opening pane to the one side and one fixed pane below the opening light.
This is the standard window, and it will take the average window cleaner 90 seconds to clean it,always has and always will.
You want to treat the window as a challenge, treat it as a race and you will of course do it far faster.
As we all know, Turbo Terry Burrows can do 3 single pane windows including the sills in under 10 seconds, thats what racing is all about.

The windows that Rog is talking about are easier to do than the tradition standard casement window, whether with a squeegee or microfibre.

But all I have said holds good, 90 seconds per standard casement window for the average window cleaner.
30 seconds for WFP

Providing you have done the job correctly the one thing you will not get with WFP is smears, and you WILL be quicker, and in that I am still talking about what Mr Average can achieve.

You cannot go at race speed all day long and do a top quality job, quite apart from which you will be shattered at the end of the day.

Roger bleats on time and time again about how crap WFP is, he is very, very wrong, done properly it does every bit as good a job as trad and it is quicker, on some work the difference is staggeringly large.
And the bigger the job the bigger the difference in time taken.

An average window cleaner will be quicker on most jobs than a fast window cleaner if he is using WFP.
But you must also remember that it still takes a few months to hone and develop your skill with WFP, in that respect it is no different to Trad window cleaning.

A newbie at WFP will be slow and clumsy, just to become 'average' takes time and effort regardless of which method you use.
And being an average window cleaner does not mean you are a 'WORSE' window cleaner than an above average one.
Merely that in time taken to do a job to a high standard you manage to do this in  what is considered the average time it should take you once you have achieved a high level of competency.
My missus is shouting at me..gotta go :-\


Sigh, oh dear, I seethat while I have been typing this, 11 other replies have been made!
and most of them I'm going to have to delete guys.
Nothing wrong with Roger's post if it causes debate, but keep to a debate and not simply smart comments to snicker at :-X

Ian
Ian. ISM CLEANING SERVICES

Sir Squeaky

  • Posts: 8341
Re: An time experiment...
« Reply #29 on: August 24, 2006, 11:42:01 pm »
Cheers Ian, a good reply. (until the wfp bit ;))

Still not 90 seconds for me though.
Around the 45-50 mark, and I wasn't racing, I was at my standard work-all-day pace.
It wasn't to see how quick I could do it, more to see how leaded compared to squeegee work.

I'm sure in certain light it wasn't perfect, but I've never had a complaint so it must be of a satisfactory standard. :)


Sir Squeaky

  • Posts: 8341
Re: A time experiment...
« Reply #30 on: August 24, 2006, 11:45:55 pm »
Why should wfp be mentioned in this topic at all?
Exactly.

And it was actually before Ian arrived too...... ;D

AuRavelling79

  • Posts: 26541
Re: An time experiment...
« Reply #31 on: August 24, 2006, 11:53:30 pm »
Ok - back to time. Today at 4.20 I rolled up on an ex-council estate with four "red-brick" semi's to do (like wot you have in your large towns and cities.)

These were the last of my round that I changed to wfp (back in May)

At the end of a long day it would have taken me a total of 1 hr and 15/20 mins to do these four semi's trad. and I would have earned £30.00 exactly.

I flicked the power on, plonked the 100m of microbore out the back of the estate car, picked up the pole in one hand, hose in the other - went round the back of house one. Tapped the autobrush and did house one.

Walked the hose across the road and pulled out another 20metres of microbore and did houses 2 and 3. Rolled it all back up and drove 20 metres to house no. 4. Out with the hose, round the back, rolled it up and finished at 5.15.

That's £30 in 55 minutes at the end of a long day on a council estate in Bristol.

Saving 20/25 minutes - and remember these were the last houses I changed over to wfp because pre-microbore they would have taken as long to do wfp as trad.

So, now I would say I've moved into second gear on wfp - improving my original set up - tank instead of barrels, microbore instead of standard, auto brush with fan-jets instead of normal.

When I was in first gear on wfp there were some houses that were quicker to do trad. Now, even on standalone properties it's quicker to wfp.

I'm looking forward to third, fourth and fifth gear - move forward or drift backwards.

Modified to add:-

(And why mention wfp? - because the heading was about a time experiment - which is what I have indubitably posted about!)
It's a game of three halves!

edd

  • Posts: 960
Re: An time experiment...
« Reply #32 on: August 25, 2006, 12:03:36 am »
WHEN WELL HOPFULLY NOT you get lead poisoning like i did  you will never never ever!!!! clean a lead window with anything but wfp??? well its quicker 4 us  lost 2 customers in 2 years but gained approx 300 new ones and the book was full before new work like con roof cleaning gutters etc we are not tired from the pole like the ladders but its just another tool

groundhog

Re: An time experiment...
« Reply #33 on: August 26, 2006, 06:52:47 pm »
There is no way that customers think that wfp looks more proffessional than trad, hoses trailing everwhere, water running down the walls, and wet windows that may or may not dry clean.
I use wfp, but have moved back to use mainly trad as I find it faster on most jobs, and a lot less hassle, and best of all my customers prefer it!! ;D

Moderator David@stives

  • Posts: 8829
Re: An time experiment...
« Reply #34 on: August 26, 2006, 07:39:22 pm »
I can trad as quickly as wfp on 90% of my houses, I am talking about from turning up at a property to leaving.

I am no slouch with both methods, the advantage with trad is you can see any mistakes immediately, not that i usually make mistakes with trad.

The big plus for wfp is safety

groundhog

Re: An time experiment...
« Reply #35 on: August 26, 2006, 09:04:27 pm »
The only accidents I have ever had when window cleaning have been using wfp! The worst one was when I walked into a concrete bird bath as I was looking up at my pole and not where I was going, I went flying and nearly hit my head on some stone steps, I also nearly dropped the pole on my customers expensive car!
People can trip on trailing hoses, slip on the water that is all over the ground, if someone dropped a power pole on someones head it could kill them, it is also difficult to concentrate on where you are going when you are looking upwards all the time, not to mention the damage wfp does to your neck and back over time!!
I come home with aches and pains all over my body after a day with wfp, but not at all after a day on the ladders. Manafactuers are brain washing so many window cleaners about how superior wfp is supposed to be, when I bought mine the manafaturer told me that I would be 400% quicker!! what a load of b******s, I would challenge any wfper to a race on a standard house with me using trad, I would win easily and the results are guaranteed to be a superior finish with trad!! :P

Sir Squeaky

  • Posts: 8341
Re: An time experiment...
« Reply #36 on: August 26, 2006, 09:58:53 pm »
 ;)

jeff evans

Re: An time experiment...
« Reply #37 on: August 26, 2006, 10:25:51 pm »
Groundhog

Do you not use WFP any longer.?

Pj

Re: An time experiment...
« Reply #38 on: August 26, 2006, 11:19:52 pm »
I use wfp and trad.  Prob 50/50 %

I really couldn't care less which one is faster or cleaner.  I've cleaned windows for 20 years and I know which is safer for me.  But who cares? 
If I was to be as argumentative in my posts or as controversial as Squeaky, in any other context, I would be in "the dark corner" by now. But you, Squeaky, are far more challenging, for far longer than I have been, yet it carries on!
Ian Giles' posts carry on too!  The other side of the coin argumentatively.
Anyone else would be told that their posts had been modified or deleted!  Because they go on and on far more than any other issue is allowed to.  Because it's all about where it started locally.
Lets be honest.  You two have worked with each other, now you argue online with each other, yet you live in close proximity to each other!  Why don't you sort this out, locally over a nice takeaway?
I'll tell you why.. Because it gets responses.
But If it was any other matter regarding w/c, equally challenging, like my post for instance....there would be complaints.  But you know I'm right.  Yes I am outspoken!  I am known for that.

Give up on your silly arguments about time trials.  Who cares?

Ian..You seem like a hard working chap.  Well done!  I respect your  self discipline.  Remember it is not the entire measure of a man.

Roger..Be glad you have youth on your side to still be able to run up a ladder, and down again, and clean so fast..realise that others could also do that at your age.
Show some respect, remember, "Youth is wasted on the young".  Make the most of it..    It is gone before you realise.

groundhog

Re: An time experiment...
« Reply #39 on: August 26, 2006, 11:32:13 pm »
Yes Jeff I still use wfp on commercial jobs, but on my domestic round I am nearly all trad as I find it faster and get a better finish without all the hassle of hoses and poles ect. The only domestics I use it on are for windows above 1st floor height and on a large property that I clean with large painted metal framed georgian style windows, that is the only job where I find wfp to be quicker.