[AuRavelling79]

I think you should be competitive and undercut when ness. 15 years or not you still have to be competitive to get the work in

Hello monkey boy/ashcombe/fibreclean - still trolling?

[D woods]

Hi Guys
we are active in the commercial sector and we are never the cheapest.

I just dont understand what is the point of working for buttons. If you
have a professional image and use professional equipment, you can charge professional prices.

When you charge professional prices you can live a professional lifestyle
( nice house nice car etc. ) or you can work for buttons, drive a crap
car and live in a crap house and come on this forum and moan about
all the window cleaners who charge to much.

[sunshine windows]

I think it's disgusting that fellow window cleaners (regardless whether domestic or commercial) would deliberately find out the competitions prices and then try and undercut them.

I think that the commercial market is more susceptable to losing their work because of these underhanded tactics. Though saying that, if you are doing a first class job then i think people are happy to stay with you.

For those that are saying it's healthy competition, all i can say is what utter B*****KS. It will do nothing but damage.

I am probably one of the most expensive trad w/cers in my area yet i still have no problem picking up new customers. I know that new w/cers have canvassed in lots of areas i cover because my customers tell me. Whether they have gone in a lot cheaper or not i don't know. What i do know is, i haven't lost one yet to anybody new starting up. (Must be doing something right)  

If people are unwittingly going in with ridiculously low prices that's completely different to deliberately undercutting but still just as damaging. These people need to do a bit of research into healthy pricing before starting up. Otherwise they'll be going for just a few weeks/months before wondering what they're doing. Out in all weathers working for peanuts and will just jack it in leaving their customers in the lurch.

There's a great difference between healthy competition and tax dodging coniving scumbags who would sell their own granny for a fix.

Lance

[simon knight]

Charge the right money, do a decent job and the customer will stay with you. None of my customers has gone over to someone else because they're a couple of £ cheaper and if they did GOOD RIDDANCE! There is plenty of work out there.

I watched a guy the other week with a WFP. By the time he'd set it up I'd have been in and out and onto the next job. 

[Sir Squeaky]

I watched a guy the other week with a WFP. By the time he'd set it up I'd have been in and out and onto the next job. 

That's so true though.

...and he charging twice as much.
You've got no worries mate.

[simon knight]

I'd like your opinion on something: Quoted for a 6 bed house. Lady wanted in and out. Reckoned it'd take me ish 2 hours. I said £40. Got the job. Did the out then moved indoors...to find that the entire house had 2ndry glazing.  I cleaned exterior of glazing only. Lady kicks up a fuss reckoning I should do both sides of 2ndry plus inside actual window. In other words job Xs 2.  Told her that next time I'd do this but it'd be nearer £80. Thoughts?

[williamx]

Always check first hand what the customer wants cleaning before you quote.

[AuRavelling79]

Easy trap to fall into, but if the quote for outsides only is £20 then in and out should be at least £40 and with secondary then £80. But you should have checked it out first.

[williamx]

In the news the other day is was quoted that the government predictions on the amount of workers, who would come from the new EC members countries, looking for work would only be 15000, but over 600000 came instead.

In the next 5 years that figure will rise to over 1 million, who are used to only earning 20% of what we do.

What effect do you think this might have on the window cleaning trade?

[simon knight]

Yeah I must admit that my eye wasn't on the ball and I hadn't reckoned on 2ndry...mind you she should have mentioned it. 

[Trevor Knight]

I watched a guy the other week with a WFP. By the time he'd set it up I'd have been in and out and onto the next job. 

That's so true though.

...and he charging twice as much.
You've got no worries mate.

You boy's just can't help yourselves can you 

[simon knight]

Re the East European influx:

Where I ply my trade (SW London) quite a few of my customers have building work done or their houses painted etc. In lots of cases this work is done by Polish people who by all accounts do a good job and charge substantially less than their English counterparts. Obviously if they can save £100s perhaps £1000s on a major project they will. But with W/C it's a relatively cheap expense and I just cannot believe dear old Mrs Prior who I've done for years would suddenly use Mr Szavetski because he offers to charge her £5 less. Let's not kid ourselves window cleaning isn't rocket science and anybody with a head for heights can do it. Your customers stay with you because they like and trust you.

[trevor perry]

i agree most of my customers would stay with me becuase they can trust me and i do agood job etc but if they see another window cleaner doing a house opposite month in and month out and he charges less then its only normal to ask why i charge more . also you only have to look on the forum how many are looking for extra work going doing leafllet drops and canvassing work most dont ask the householder if they already have a window cleaner they just offer to give housholder a qoute this again only leads to costcutting . i know personally i am one of cheapest around  where i live but if someone asks me for a price i always ask  if they already have a window cleaner and why they want to get rid if they say its to get a cheaper price i always say i  try not to take other peoples work .    having said that i veiw commercial work differently and will give qoute to any who ask.

[Trevor Knight]

Commercial work is totally different to domestic and in some ways is very vunerable to price wars.

Domestic however is a different ball game altogether.

For someone to knowingly undercut another window cleaner to take work from him only because of the cost issue is disgusting. People like this not only shoot themselves in the foot for undercutting but create all sorts of problems.

Trev

[shammy davis jnr]

but why in all the streets in all the world do they choose one of yours nobody likes this lets face it ..........and its hard not to loose it  and just walk down and sort them out ,
once our twice m,bee
but i think constant  under cutting is a big come on and deserves to be sorted out
esp if they do it on the fly ,the f,,,,,, sons of bitches these folk are  spine less wonders if you ask me
 
but for every one of these type there is a fourm like this one full off decent guys,in which i have been well impressed with the standards and help and the good old feeling shared in this room
keep on getting into the corners that the cheap skates cant reach    you are on here becase you care for your fellow w,cleaner  either that our just hiddin from the wife our rained off lol     yours davis

[trevor perry]

i have talked to my dad about pricing he has been window cleaning fom the 1950s, when he started he was in the national window cleaning association and they told there members what to charge infact when prices increased a notice went into local papers telling customers of said increase. they also covered other members work if he was off ill etc giving a percentage of the money to him till he got better. this stopped all undercutting and customers knew they where paying a regular price and not being conned. if only we could have a simmilar system now for domestic work . whats others thoughts on this?

[neil100]

If their was a miniummn price. It would hopefully stop undercutting but I doubt it.

In my book undercutters are parasites.

Ive been cleaning windows for over 26yrs and I never have, no will I ever undercut another wc to get a job.

Someone asked me if I would clean his windows about 6 weeks ago while I was working, Do you have a wc I asked. Yes was his reply. You dont need me then, Stick with the chap you know. I replied.

The guy we have is rubbish he said.

I am good, No I am very good, In fact the best ever wc you are likley to ever see. But I come at a price, So you better stick with your So So wc and be happy that it does not cost you as much as it would for somebody like me.

He asked me just to have a look at his windows when I was passing through His village. His wc who is quite a good wc actually would not do a builders clean on the gable end of his house. He just did a normall job but it would not remove the grime/paint deposits on his windows.

In the end I said I could remove the grime, for the house it would be £60.00 and then £40.00 thereafter. The other chap only charged £20.00.

I did the job, I was not undercutting but I was giving the customer a service that the other wc was not willing to provide. I have recevied a text and 2 tel calls since doing the job cos He cannot beleive after all this time the windows are truly clean.

My customers pay me more then another wc because of this very fact. I clean windows to a very high standard and provide a quality service.

These Brain dead morons who undercut need to take a good hard look at themselves.

Nel.

[M4RK]

I agree that underhanded tactics to get work is wrong.
Deliberately finding out what someone else charges and quoting a cheaper price to get the job is not good business.

However, if you are out canvassing and someone says ""OK can you give me a price", Its a job that will take maybe 30 mins and you say £15. (In London)
THEN the housholder makes you aware that they actually do have a window cleaner and he charges £18 what would you do?

I would say to the housholder, "Are you happy with the work he does?" If they say yes then I'd likely leave it for the sake of peace. Though I'd be tempted to take it.

BUT if they said £20-£25  i'd think, well someone has been making GOOD money from this job, and if you price that high, its good while it lasts but that's the risk you take.
There's nothing wrong with charging the going rate. If someone comes along at the going rate, fair enough.

Even £15 is good money for a half hour job, lets face it.
Would you say that is the same as undercutting? I don't think so.

Then there is supply and demand,
At one time window cleaners were like gold dust. Now there are more and more window cleaners coming on the scene. Hence more supply. More supply, less demand.
You might get away charging extortionate prices to people who were at one time desperate for a window cleaner, but when others come on the scene, you run the risk of losing the job.

Be fair from the outset. 

[Trevor Knight]

I agree that underhanded tactics to get work is wrong.
Deliberately finding out what someone else charges and quoting a cheaper price to get the job is not good business.

However, if you are out canvassing and someone says ""OK can you give me a price", Its a job that will take maybe 30 mins and you say £15. (In London)
THEN the housholder makes you aware that they actually do have a window cleaner and he charges £18 what would you do?

I would say to the housholder, "Are you happy with the work he does?" If they say yes then I'd likely leave it for the sake of peace. Though I'd be tempted to take it.

I would just say, oh, sorry, I don't poach other window cleaners work, here's my card and if he ever lets you down give me a call, thanks!

BUT if they said £20-£25  i'd think, well someone has been making GOOD money from this job, and if you price that high, its good while it lasts but that's the risk you take.
There's nothing wrong with charging the going rate. If someone comes along at the going rate, fair enough.

Who determins what is the going rate?? If the customer was happy paying that price then so what? The fact that you charge almost 25% less is your problem and perhaps you should adjust what you're charging? Lets see, clean 8 houses at £25 earn £200 or carge the going rate and clean 8 houses at £15 and earn £120? Work smarter not harder.

Even £15 is good money for a half hour job, lets face it.
Would you say that is the same as undercutting? I don't think so.

Yes it is, I am sorry, but you have quoted less, been told and yet still took the work on. There really isn't any need to do that?

Then there is supply and demand,
At one time window cleaners were like gold dust. Now there are more and more window cleaners coming on the scene. Hence more supply. More supply, less demand.
You might get away charging extortionate prices to people who were at one time desperate for a window cleaner, but when others come on the scene, you run the risk of losing the job.

Be fair from the outset.

If people talked and worked together instead of working against each other we could all charge a good rate and enjoy the benefits that come with it. Instead of undercutting and robbing yourself of an income. There are exactly the same amount of hours and days in every week, how you chose to use them is down to you but remember this, you can't change yesterday but you can change tomorrow!

[neil100]

Mark you say that their is a going rate.

I disagree there IS NO STANDARD RATE for window cleaners.

You charge the customer what you want to earn. Window cleaners are not working to a Goverment set Target on how much to earn per hour.

Its idiots who come into w/c and charge such a stupid price per hour that can make it difficult for the rest of us who take a great deal of pride in the job we do.

I lost one customer about 10yrs ago to another w/c who told my customer that I was charging more then the set amount for that property. She sacked me, Took this Idiot on as her w/c, She owed me for two window cleans but refused to pay me because in her veiw I had been ripping her off for years. I tried to explain to her that its up to each individual w/c how much they want to charge. If they agree you clean their windows, No one is forceing them to have them cleaned.

Two years later this same customer asked if I could start cleaning them again cos the other Idiot only cleaned them twice. I wont write my reply to her. But it felt good.

Nel.