[AuRavelling79]

we all want a good standard of living and we work dam hard to get it but ones who only want to work two days a week for more than the majority of folk earn in more than a week are in my opinion taking libertys but that is upto them we all make or own decisions and ultimately the customers decide . but dont moan when your undercut by saying they will not last  and will do acrap job for thats not always the case .

Trevor - it does seem from your posts that you have a great deal of skill in fast traditional window cleaning. I do feel that your business acumen leaves a little to be desired inasmuch as you do need to lay up some money for the future.

You need to run wfp bearing in mind replacement costs, spares costs, van costs etc - it's not so simple as running a hand to mouth, I've made a £100/£150 today so I'm ok type of operation anymore.

Ladders will slowly but surely become obsolescent in window cleaning and one fatal well- publicised-insurance-disputed fall from a ladder will accelerate that process in the domestic market as it already has done in the commercial market. Just as facilities managers are fearful of the consequences of not adhering to H&S guidelines, so too will householders.

I'm very pleased that your father is able to window clean so proficiently at age 67. I do hope however that by your upping your prices substantially (not exorbitantly) and investing any extra to your needs you will be able to choose whether you want to be doing the same if and when you reach his age in about 28 years time.

The clock is ticking and I guess many folk nearing 40 are about to enter the most expensive period of their lives over the next fifteen years or so. (kids growing, needing education, getting married etc.)

If by charging £7.50 instead of £5.00 means you don't sell yourself short, well that's what I would do.....

Respectfully

[niceandclean]

I went door knocking a few months back and knocked on this huge great house, approx 20 sash box windows. when i said are you interested in a window cleaner they said we have been looking for ages, usual story. The woman said as long as you can do it for the same price as our last cleaner who retired you can have the job, we had him for years he always cleaned the frames and cills though. I said not a problem i always wipe the frames and cills and asked how much he charged.I estimated in my head that i would charge 40 quid every 8 weeks. She said 65 quid every 4 weeks, i straight away said DONE!! At the end the day if the customer is happy paying a certain price for the job and is happy with the clean then surely that is ok? Its not about ripping people off its about earning a good living from doing a job that alot of people look down thier noses at.

[craig jwc]

If this new lad has just started he obviously is just out to get customers.

He might not have underpriced on purpose as most people on here will admit going in too cheap is so easy to do when you 1st start up.

I know i was quoting cheap prices when i 1st started, but i didn't think so back then.

Even now i have priced a job less than what a previous w/c did and came away kicking myself.
But saying that i know i have charged double from what a customer was paying but were happy because of the standard of work.

I had one cancel and a couple of months later called me to go back because this other w/c wasn't doing the job to the standard i was.

I told them i would be round to give them a price.

They expected me to charge them the same as i did before.

I told them that if my customers stayed loyal to me then i will fair to them.
I told them that i run a business and not doing it for a bit of extra cash.

It dosen't both me too much now as i have realised that there is always more windows round the corner and if you do a good job then work will come to you.

In the last couple of weeks i have picked up and extra 12 jobs just by cleaning someone elses windows and my number passed on.

I won't go out trying to take work from others but if a customer isn't happy with their present arrangments then i will happily give them a quote.

This dosen't mean i am stealing work just running a business.

There are people out there who will try and steal work.

I went back to 4 bungalows today after i had a phone call asking why i hadn't been.
I had had a phone call around 2 months ago saying that they had changed to another w/c and wanted to cancel me.
I said ok and took them off my books.

It turns out that none of these customers had phoned me and had seen someone new going round, but they never called on them.

I want to find out who it is because i might have a few words to say about the method used to get customers.

But i have had this before where somone has gone calling on houses ( some of my customers) telling them that i given it up or sold my round to them.

Trying to get work that way is wrong, but if you are doing a good job you shouldn't have anything to worry about.

You will always get someone who wants to pay a cheaper price, but like already said in a different post, cheaper isn't always better, but then again if someone is has gone in with a silly price they should know that it won't be long before someone else comes along with a sensible price and does just a good job.

Craig

[JM123]

i think people are taking the pee and  certain ones on this forum who brag about making 3 or 4 hundred  £  a day or definately ripping people off this then has a knock on effect of making other people want the same and so people get greedy some slowing down there work pace to snail speed just to justify there price . get a concience and do a fair days work  for a fair days wage.

so tell me trevor, if I charge £6 for a 3 bed semi, and say £12-£15 for a large detached house with a small conservatory,am I taking the p*ss??  Because mate it sounds like you're saying I con people out of their money by charging the same as others, doing a top quality job, but it only takes me half the time, I can earn £300 aday and still sleep well thanks very much, if you can't earn that then fine but it sounds to me you're jealous of the time and work that others have put into building up a good round.

[trevor perry]

jm123 i am very happy with the work i do and i think if you where to do commercial work then the prices you quote would be overpriced. i dont do just window cleaning i also do carpet cleaning and powerwashing etc  and employ 12 full time staff and some part time to . if you look on this forum under other cleaning topics you wil see prices for office cleaning between 9 and 13 pound an hour and now with the increasing use of wfp it is only a matter of time before larger companies target the domestic market cutting prices significantly. this wouldnt have happened if window cleaning had stayed traditional for it was hard to get good staff to do ladderwork but lets be honest using wfp is easy and easy to train people who will willingly work for between 7 and 9 pound an hour. i hope this doesnt happen for it will spoil it for every one but dont get to greedy . on the subject of speed i am faster than any i have come accross so far  in 25 years so i dont think you would cover twice what i do only in your dreams

[shammy davis jnr]

everything has its price i could go back and charge the guy 2 pound then his neighbour wants it for that aswell   sounds like a great idea  what is the minimum wage again
hell i could do it for nothing till the other guy pes off   then my servis would be classed as top notch becase i dont charge a thing 
sorry guys i have to pay the six of you off our you can stay and work for nothing our join with the new guy on the block get him to pay your stamp,insurance holiday pay  but you will need to work twice as hard as you did without dropping standards  this sounds like a plan   ba
i aint getting on no plane sucker..............its a good theroy but a bit impactical  dont you think i will not drop price our standards for no one ......infact i will continue to raise my standards and my prices for many years to come

[TVCS]

I cant say I like the idea of being undercut but, when i first started I didn't really know what to charge and my first few customers thought I was great as my prices were low.  It didn't take me long to establish a pricing structure which seems to suit me and my customers. Recently I have picked up some work from a w/c that has semi retired and my prices are very simular to his.
Maybe this daddies boy is living on his dads credit cards or maybe he is new to the biz and is making the same pricing erroros as I did.
Like others have said, he'll probably get fed up with the winter months and you'll get your customer/s back and maybe his other customers too.

Just my thoughts
Ant
TVCS

[shammy davis jnr]

thanks for your replies so far guys it realy is intresting to find out diffrent views on this matter no disrespect meant to any one for what they think is a good price ,,but in an industry like ours i feel you need to up the anti
how many have you have paid for this  dyno rod 80 quid for a turn out before labour ,plumber,30 quid before they even look at a job ,  most people expect this  
so why are we still finding people coming in with crazy prices  reminds me of that mcdonalds advert  this is how long a estae agents takes to make 99 pence open a door and close it again
its time we came out off the dark ages  how much does it cost a plumber for insurance must be a lot to charge a thirty forty quid call out charge  and some off us have to settle for a couple of quid for a window clean  

[Fibreclean]

Undercutting is healthy competition

[shammy davis jnr]

tvc your right i dont mind comp its healthy for any one in this fourm and the young guy is prob finding his feet fair play to the guy .......but has he really gave it any thought  to the implications two the rest of the window cleaners in the area , who would prob give him good advice and a basic  rough price which we all charge round here ,,i hope he realy does ok would not wish any fellow w,cleaner to go out the game ill have a word in his ear when we meet and show him the error of his ways
then end up with black eyes lol  to show for it lightly 

[Trevor Knight]

Undercutting is healthy competition

So wrong and off the marks its frightening!

Deliberately undercutting is in my eye's the lowest form of business out there. There are so many customers who want a window cleaner to go out and deliberately take work form another window cleaner by undercutting his prices is quite frankly appauling!

There is no place for people like that in this industry.

Healthy competition is when you all tender for the same contract, sell your services and may the best man win!

Trev

[williamx]

Whenever a person goes into business they should draw up a business plan.

This young man whos father seems to be well off has probably done one, imagine it works like this.

This young man because he is using ladders finds that after the intial expeniture for his working equipment he only needs a small amount of money each week to carry out his work.
 
Outgoings

Petrol                £30.00
Car Insurance   £25.00
Fairy liquid        £0.80
Wear & Tear     £10.00
Wage                £300.00

Total                 £365.80p each week

Working on the above figures the young man only needs to earn £365.80p each week to break even, which would work out this way.

Working times 08.00 to 16.00 monday to friday = 40 hours
Cleaning times. He can clean 3 houses per hour on average so 40 hours x 3 houses = 120 houses now divide this by what he needs to earn each week £368.80 / 120 = £3.07 per house.

So working with the above figures he could charge £5.00 per house and still make £231.60 profit each week or £11580.00 per year and still have a holiday.

Also with time he will become quicker and so his income will rise or his prices could come down even more.

[williamx]

Undercutting is healthy competition

So wrong and off the marks its frightening!

Deliberately undercutting is in my eye's the lowest form of business out there. There are so many customers who want a window cleaner to go out and deliberately take work form another window cleaner by undercutting his prices is quite frankly appauling!

There is no place for people like that in this industry.

Helathy competition is when you all tender for the same contract, sell your services and may the best man win!

Trev

And may the lowest price get the job

[Fibreclean]

If their are two cleaners together both with the same equipment/experience, one would charge you £80 and the other £30 for doing the same job, who would you use?

The only way to win contracts and gain customers is to undercut your competition. This is what the public want. Competition is healthy.

[shammy davis jnr]

i agree but to what extent ,do u cut your nose off to spite your face if i came into your patch and took say ten doors a week becase i had re done a biz plan and could under cut you by say two pound a house
would you go round the same customer and quote the same our would you stick to your guns  and have to go else where to make these ten doors up with what you charge then i come there and it all starts again
it sounds mental   but  there is enough work out there for every one  i think its a case off look before you leap into some one elses patch ,    patch  unwritten  code of conduct  to fellow w,cleaners  areas 
nobody wants price wars

[trevor perry]

i agree no one wants price wars but because window cleaning with wfp is so easy and no dangers of height any more then people hear of ones earning big money and decide to give it a go and these are people who are used to working for between 7 and 9 pound an hour if they can earn 15 pound an hour there over the moon the price wars are bound to happen and it wont be long before franchisees get into the market and ruin it for everyone the way they did for carpet cleaning . this is only my oppinion and i hope im wrong but for any whos prices arent competitive expect to loose some work when money is involved customer loyalty isnt always as good as you think

[Ian_Giles]

Undercutting?
What cobblers! No one wins in the end from undercutting, not the customer  and not the window cleaner.
If your method of getting work is to deliberately undercut the competition then you will end out cutting corners to make money.
If your prices are simply cheaper than some others then that is different, we all have different aims in life, some are happy to earn just enough to get by on and are content to plod along.
Others want to make something of their lives, and by charging peanuts they won't achieve that.
WFP will not force the price of most domestic work down in price, it probably will on something like georgian work because it is so much faster, and I mean waaaaayyyy faster.
Big companies cannot come in and charge...say 40% less on a standard semi and still make enough to cover their operating cost (WFP) general business costs and still pay operatives a decent wage; Won't happen.
It may well affect really big accounts, mostly in the commercial sector, the bigger the job, the bigger the time differential and therefore it gives room to reduce costs and still make more money than you would do with purely trad.
Should the large business come in and deliberately undercut one man outfits on standard semi's they won't last long.

I really don't fear the 'undercutters' they rarely take many accounts, and if a customer is prepared to save a pound by swapping to one, then when the undercutter takes a hike I will take great delight in, 'ever so politely' telling the ex customer I am too busy to take them back on

Ian

[Sir Squeaky]

Ian, you nearly didn't plug wfp then.....

[Trevor Knight]

Undercutting is healthy competition

So wrong and off the marks its frightening!

Deliberately undercutting is in my eye's the lowest form of business out there. There are so many customers who want a window cleaner to go out and deliberately take work form another window cleaner by undercutting his prices is quite frankly appauling!

There is no place for people like that in this industry.

Helathy competition is when you all tender for the same contract, sell your services and may the best man win!

Trev

And may the lowest price get the job

Just because you're cheap doesn't mean you will get the job. Questions will be asked regarding the standard of work they will receive and if it is a contract over 5k you will have to prove your worth to them.

Who ever buys a Gucci watch on holiday for £10 and has still got it 2 years down the road? You get what you pay for!

[Trevor Knight]

If their are two cleaners together both with the same equipment/experience, one would charge you £80 and the other £30 for doing the same job, who would you use?

The only way to win contracts and gain customers is to undercut your competition. This is what the public want. Competition is healthy.

WRONG!

Listen to what you are saying. If a customer is paying a price from an existing window cleaner and you ask how much they are paying then deliberately undercut him that is not healthy, thats just damn right appauling.

If you think you need to be cheap to get a contract you won't last long in the commercial sector. I have operated in this sector for 15 years, have a large clientel and have NEVER sold myself cheap because I am not confident with the services I offer.

There is more to a job than being the cheapest.