[Grafters Cleaning Services]

wfp
pros: safer, more money, quicker, can do extras like facias and gutters so again more money, reach high windows, gets to windows that trad can't reach (again more money), gives window cleaning a higher profile.

cons: intial costs, draging hoses round the backs (plantpots are a nightmare) making pure water.

trad
pros: cheaper

cons: dangerous in the wrong hands, limited reach, (over conservatorys etc) and slower.

having summed all that up it seems that wfp is about safety and making more money.

[Sir Squeaky]

Tosh, sometimes you speak sense, but this time you posted a right load of testicles.

I don't deliberately try to wind anyone up.
If they can't handle my facts then ignore them.

I'm no faster than any other fit experienced w/c'er?
I'd put that to the test any day mate.
Bring on anyone except Terry Burrows.

You never spent any time around me working.
You can't just watch me squeegee one pane and make a judgement.
It's the whole job from start to finish I'm organised with.

Feel I'm second class?
Ha ha!!!!!

Now that is extremely funny!
Second class is getting some machine to do it for you, and doing a second rate job.

Wfp users like to think they make me feel that way.
It boosts their ego now that they've stopped actually "cleaning" windows.

I'll always know I'm the master.

I think this the definitive "Trad defence" rant, so I won't be writing anything this long again.....just quoting this one.

[Sir Squeaky]

Shiner you must be bored too.

[bumper]

MY DADS GOT A BIGGER CAR THAN YOU ,AND MY DADS BIGGER THAN YOUR DAD NA NA NA NAA

[neil100]

Tosh.

Squeaks Is not winding me up. I know he has nailed his colours to trad w/c. Fair dicum.

its easy to just stick with what you know. I know my mentor in w/c is still Trad and does not know if he will be switching over to wfp, hes just waiting to see what happens.

For me it took a lot of thinking weather to switch from trad to wfp. I earn on average £300.00 +,  more every week then when I was trad. I now preffer wfp to trad w/c.
I am safer and my bank balance is very healthy, I am saving to buy a brand new porche boxter next year and wfp will get me that car a lot faster then trad w/c.

Their are negatives with wfp but the positives make up for it.

Nel.

[Sir Squeaky]

So Nel, if you're doing £300+ a week more, then you're saying.....

On my 20-25 hours a week of roughly £8 average jobs, that you could do £750-800 a week?
In 20-25 hours with average prices?

You'd have to do 5 an hour every hour all week.
Including travelling.

Don't think so.
You can't have been quick trad.

[AuRavelling79]

1) Are we having an ARGUAMENT or an ARGUMENT?

I dunno cap'n - does your name include a Kieth or a Keith?

[Jon T.C.]

I've tried to stay out of this - but Squeaky, you must realise that you are humiliating yourself with some of those comments.

You are insanely funny though !!

I use wfp and trad , for which ever suits a particular task

[neil100]

Squeaks.

Yep no problem.

The thing is I plod along with wfp and earn £30.00 an hour, If I wanted to go fast I could get my hourly rate up to £40.00 an hour.

I dont have a mortgage or any debt so most of the money I earn I can save, so I dont need to go fast anymore. But talking of speed.My freind who has a 125ltr tank in the back of an old astra estate car took £500 in a 10 hour day last week cleaning domestic customers going as fast as he could. He said if he was doing it trad he would of been lucky to get £250. I dont care how fast you are trad you will not get near this lad on a days work when hes flat out. In fact he would beat two w/ c working together doing trad. FACT.

Nel.

[JohnL]

I think there is too much nonsense being spouted on this thread to make an argument worthwhile!

JohnL

[neil100]

Now their is no need to be argumentitive JohnL.

Nel.

[scrimit2]

the thing that I like about trad, is there no machinery involved, I had another business where I relied on machinery, when things went well, it was great but when things went wrong, it was a headache.
stoping to repair equipment, going to buy spares etc.
Im reluctant to go into wfp for that reason, but I must stress I cant speak for the benefits wfp, and if the increase in earnings and safety compensate for any problems.
personally I plan to stay trad, and build up ground level work, to stop future working at height regs being a problem for me.

[DASERVICES]

  Squeeky, you've made my day love the sign. Good sense of humour.

  Doug

[Sir Squeaky]

It's a pleasure Doug.

[DASERVICES]

Foxman,

Anyone in their right mind trad or WFP will know what their limits are to making money, will
wfp users bring prices down. No , too much cost envolved if they do then they have money
to waste. Only guys who can do that is trad and they will be the £2.50 guys which I'm
sure y will not like.

[Trevor Knight]

WFP, Pros: Safer generally,
                  Cleans frames,
                  Easier to rip people off. (why is this ripping people off squeaky? I charged just the same as when I was traditional, all that's changed now is it doesn't take so much time! Thats not ripping people off!!!!)

        Cons: Can't use on a lot of jobs.
                   Access problems.
                   Danger to public. Why and how???
                   Inconsistant results.


Trad, Pros: Still fast (in the right hands)
                  Thorough job every time.
                  Less access problems. (NEVER in a million years, I will take you to as many commercial and high rise and awkward domestic accounts as you care to mention and guarentee you will NOT be able to get to them with ladders without problems, FACT!!!)
       
         Cons: Dangerous if incompetent on ladders.
                   Some windows can't be reached.
                   Can be hard work.
                 
Rog. (balanced and fair I think)
                   

Sorry, but to be fair Squeaky I am always looking to defend you on this forum as I realise you do get unjust critisism at times due to you being traditional, however, when you post replies like that I can't help but ask why?

Best wishes,

Trev

[Jon T.C.]

WFP, Pros: Safer generally,
                  Cleans frames,
                  Easier to rip people off. (why is this ripping people off squeaky? I charged just the same as when I was traditional, all that's changed now is it doesn't take so much time! Thats not ripping people off!!!!)

        Cons: Can't use on a lot of jobs.
                   Access problems.
                   Danger to public. Why and how???
                   Inconsistant results.


Trad, Pros: Still fast (in the right hands)
                  Thorough job every time.
                  Less access problems. (NEVER in a million years, I will take you to as many commercial and high rise and awkward domestic accounts as you care to mention and guarentee you will NOT be able to get to them with ladders without problems, FACT!!!)
       
         Cons: Dangerous if incompetent on ladders.
                   Some windows can't be reached.
                   Can be hard work.
                 
Rog. (balanced and fair I think)
                   

Sorry, but to be fair Squeaky I am always looking to defend you on this forum as I realise you do get unjust critisism at times due to you being traditional, however, when you post replies like that I can't help but ask why?

Best wishes,

Trev

Actually Trev, none of Squeaks WFP cons stand up!!

[Sir Squeaky]

                  Easier to rip people off. (why is this ripping people off squeaky? I charged just the same as when I was traditional, all that's changed now is it doesn't take so much time! Thats not ripping people off!!!!)
Well there's a lot of people who want more now, to justify their costly equipment. Easy to do, as they big it up to the customer.

       
                   Danger to public. Why and how???
                  As I said before, hoses across pavements, wet or icy paths, waving a big pole about around people. Parking on pavements. The list goes on.

                  Less access problems. (NEVER in a million years, I will take you to as many commercial and high rise and awkward domestic accounts as you care to mention and guarentee you will NOT be able to get to them with ladders without problems, FACT!!!)
       
I don't do high rise commercial.
I've been around counting in a few of my areas, and there's more windows I couldn't get to with wfp than with ladders. FACT.

So there you go. Answers.
Those who can't see those points are kidding yourselves.
It's just as likely to be banned as ladders.
Public safety is more important than the operative in the governments eyes.

John TC, you really are in dreamworld with your pole.
All cons are wrong?

So you can use it on any flaky oxidised frames?
It's perfect every time?

 

[Sarah Sarill]

So you can use it on any flaky oxidised frames?

Flaky oxidised frames we have done wfp but flaky POWDER COATED aluminium frames.

No No No No...........(you get the picture)

Sarah

[Trevor Knight]

Ok Squeaky, lets do this then.

1) Ripping off customers to justify equipment costs?  Think if you read many postings about this you will see if anything people feel the prices will come down, not up!

2) Hoses across pavements ( any area we work is coned off from public)
    Wet or Icy paths - and you go up a ladder in these conditions SAFE!!!
    Waving a big pole around verses carrying a much bigger and heavier ladder,
    which do you think will do the most damage?
    Parking on pavements, well you put your ladders on pavements where public
    can walk into them and not only injure themselves but perhaps bring you down
    too!!

3) You don't do high rise commercial? Why, because your ladder won't reach? It's
     not safe that high up a ladder? maybe you can't reach?

4)  You can get to a window with a ladder but not with a pole? So you're telling me
     that if I stand at the bottom of your ladder I can't reach the same window you
     can. Somehow I don't think so. How do you reach a window over a 20ft
     conservatory, do you climb on the glass, erect scaffolding, stretch your ladder
     over the roof? Which is your method to do these or do you just say sorry, my
     ladder won't reach?

I have in my unit a 3 tier ladder, it weighs around 60kg, extends to 45ft and having been stood at the top many many times I can tell you, its not nice! Having now got a choice which way I would like to clean windows at this height I am glad to say WFP every time.

Best wishes,

Trev