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Ooooooog

  • Posts: 1083
Daily/weekly vehicle checks.
« on: March 13, 2019, 11:18:01 am »
Does anyone use an app for this, rather than pen and paper?
Ta.

Spruce

  • Posts: 8361
Re: Daily/weekly vehicle checks.
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2019, 12:15:41 pm »
Does anyone use an app for this, rather than pen and paper?
Ta.

An interesting question.

If I  was employing and the employee had the use of and responsibilty of a company vehicle then a daily driver's vehicle check would be an important part of the daily routine and part of his terms of employment. I would also sign off the inspection regularily and make it his duty to report any faults immediately.
 
45 years ago I drove a 7.5 ton Bedford and a daily mechanical check had to be done every morning. In those days it was a day a sheet book where the daily checks boxes were ticked off.  Every Friday pm I was officially back at the depot and this book was checked and signed off by our distribution manager.

In those days it was my responsibility to ensure that I reported any fault, bulb out etc, and either fixed it myself or had management book the vehicle in for repair asap with the detail logged for any police inspection.

The flavour of the law seems to have taken that onus away from the driver and made it the responsibility of the employer to ensure the vehicle is completely roadworthy at all times.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/van-drivers-daily-walkaround-check/van-drivers-daily-walkaround-check

As an owner operator I have to admit that I don't do a daily vehicle walkaround, although I do check oil levels and a quick tyre inspection for a deflated tyre. I know if an indicator bulb is out and I also know when the windscreen wipers need replacing and tend to do these items as an when. I also know when a headlamp bulb is out.

The only hassle is checking the stop light bulbs on my own. A couple of weeks ago I got flagged down by an old lady driving a Jag to tell me one of my stop lights was out. I was grateful for that advise, swapped the bulb out with the reverse light bulb before heading off to the local parts guy for a couple of new bulbs. I don't know how long that bulb was out, but had I done a daily check I would have sorted it before Mr Plod drew it to my attention.

This does raise another question. What happens if an employee's van is in a repair workshop for a few days? Many years ago drivers were paid bonus on the work they did. One particular transport company worked 24 hours a day with 3 drivers doing an 8 hour shift each. They used tipper tailers with monoleaf springs on the trailer axles. In winter and on rough roads those springs sometimes broke. But the driver on the shift just carried on until the end of his shift before reporting the fault. He still earned his bonus, but the next driver had to wait until the spring was replaced, thereby loosing his.
 
Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)

CleanClear

  • Posts: 14213
Re: Daily/weekly vehicle checks.
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2019, 12:39:26 pm »

The flavour of the law seems to have taken that onus away from the driver and made it the responsibility of the employer to ensure the vehicle is completely roadworthy at all times.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/van-drivers-daily-walkaround-check/van-drivers-daily-walkaround-check


Not sure where you got that idea from. Its always been the drivers responsibility, whether you're driving your own vehicle or someone elses. You check it before you take it on the road , simple. A sensible employer will have made provisions to ensure this happens too .
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Spruce

  • Posts: 8361
Re: Daily/weekly vehicle checks.
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2019, 01:29:45 pm »

The flavour of the law seems to have taken that onus away from the driver and made it the responsibility of the employer to ensure the vehicle is completely roadworthy at all times.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/van-drivers-daily-walkaround-check/van-drivers-daily-walkaround-check


Not sure where you got that idea from. Its always been the drivers responsibility, whether you're driving your own vehicle or someone elses. You check it before you take it on the road , simple. A sensible employer will have made provisions to ensure this happens too .

At one time it was totally my responsibility to ensure my Bedford truck was roadworthy before I got into it each day.

I guess my statement of the onus being put onto the employer was a little overstated, so I stand corrected. Apologies. But there are instances where a duty of care exists to provide a safe vehicle or an other equipment is also placed on the employer, so a shared liability.

https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/blog/company-car-liability-who-s-responsible
 
Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)

John Mart

Re: Daily/weekly vehicle checks.
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2019, 02:03:22 pm »
Does anyone use an app for this, rather than pen and paper?
Ta.

An interesting question.

If I  was employing and the employee had the use of and responsibilty of a company vehicle then a daily driver's vehicle check would be an important part of the daily routine and part of his terms of employment. I would also sign off the inspection regularily and make it his duty to report any faults immediately.
 
45 years ago I drove a 7.5 ton Bedford and a daily mechanical check had to be done every morning. In those days it was a day a sheet book where the daily checks boxes were ticked off.  Every Friday pm I was officially back at the depot and this book was checked and signed off by our distribution manager.

In those days it was my responsibility to ensure that I reported any fault, bulb out etc, and either fixed it myself or had management book the vehicle in for repair asap with the detail logged for any police inspection.

The flavour of the law seems to have taken that onus away from the driver and made it the responsibility of the employer to ensure the vehicle is completely roadworthy at all times.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/van-drivers-daily-walkaround-check/van-drivers-daily-walkaround-check

As an owner operator I have to admit that I don't do a daily vehicle walkaround, although I do check oil levels and a quick tyre inspection for a deflated tyre. I know if an indicator bulb is out and I also know when the windscreen wipers need replacing and tend to do these items as an when. I also know when a headlamp bulb is out.

The only hassle is checking the stop light bulbs on my own. A couple of weeks ago I got flagged down by an old lady driving a Jag to tell me one of my stop lights was out. I was grateful for that advise, swapped the bulb out with the reverse light bulb before heading off to the local parts guy for a couple of new bulbs. I don't know how long that bulb was out, but had I done a daily check I would have sorted it before Mr Plod drew it to my attention.

This does raise another question. What happens if an employee's van is in a repair workshop for a few days? Many years ago drivers were paid bonus on the work they did. One particular transport company worked 24 hours a day with 3 drivers doing an 8 hour shift each. They used tipper tailers with monoleaf springs on the trailer axles. In winter and on rough roads those springs sometimes broke. But the driver on the shift just carried on until the end of his shift before reporting the fault. He still earned his bonus, but the next driver had to wait until the spring was replaced, thereby loosing his.
 
Just looking at that list you linked to, it's serious overkill as a daily checklist as my guys drive the same van and take them home. Check the tyres every day?

Not having a "blue collar" background I confess to being unaware of this. I'm guessing the ones that do commercial work and have to get safety certification are probably a bit further ahead but I'm going to implement a weekly check sheet to cover my backside.

The Jester of Wibbly

  • Posts: 2089
Re: Daily/weekly vehicle checks.
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2019, 02:52:19 pm »
I use my own list.

Lunch in van - check
Water bottle in van - check
Suncream on - check
Sun glasses on - check.
Headphones on - check

Then go.
Claim your 50% off your mobile payment card reader with Sum Up.  http://fbuy.me/f7Ve3

dazmond

  • Posts: 23569
Re: Daily/weekly vehicle checks.
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2019, 03:58:21 pm »
i check my oil and water around once a month,screenwash weekly/2 weekly....no need to check tyres and lights as the van tells me if a bulbs out/tyre losing pressure.....
price higher/work harder!

Stoots

  • Posts: 6025
Re: Daily/weekly vehicle checks.
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2019, 05:48:44 pm »
M..O.T tells me when tyres are bald or bulbs out  :D

I must admit, although i trained as a mechanic when i left school and should know better ive never serviced a vehicle in my life and never checked oil etc.

Mind you ive always had old Sh*ters so i may look after my current van a bit better

Plankton

  • Posts: 2441
Re: Daily/weekly vehicle checks.
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2019, 07:01:27 pm »
I don't have a vehicle check sheet in the van but it's ingrained in me to check the essentials, tyres included! Transport managers would try to hurry you out the yard but you'd have x amount of time to check the vehicle which pays off (if used) when you get pulled, then vosa can check your vehicle while you can get your feet up on the dash knowing you've done your bit. OK they might find a running fault but you've done what your legally required to do.
Folks come on here going about having this bolted down and crash tested this but don't check the tyres!

P @ F

  • Posts: 6312
Re: Daily/weekly vehicle checks.
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2019, 07:06:44 pm »
M..O.T tells me when tyres are bald or bulbs out  :D

I must admit, although i trained as a mechanic when i left school and should know better ive never serviced a vehicle in my life and never checked oil etc.

Mind you ive always had old Sh*ters so i may look after my current van a bit better
Remind me never to buy a van off you  ;D ;D ;D
I'm so lazy I'm getting tired of it !

Plankton

  • Posts: 2441
Re: Daily/weekly vehicle checks.
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2019, 07:15:18 pm »
I've had a couple of issues with tyres blowing driving hgv's loaded with gas, and it's not nice.
You imagine driving down the road in your nice new van with the nice sign writing and £10000 heated system bolted down and next you know your swerving from one lane to the other, your a rse piece is clenching or maybe it was to late to clench and you've sharted!
Vans written off because your crashed tested system is invisible and you never checked the tyres... But that's alright because you've got insurance cover for a wfp hire van....

AuRavelling79

  • Posts: 23578
Re: Daily/weekly vehicle checks.
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2019, 08:27:59 pm »
I'm not minimising the importance of drivers and owners ensuring their vans are roadworthy and safe.

However there is a difference when the Gov website or Highway Code (for example) specifies its advice as something that MUST be done (i.e. it is the law) or as something that SHOULD be done (not law but if you don't and there is an accident/injury then that will weigh against you) and GUIDANCE which is advice as to how you might carry out inspections to comply with law and recommendations.

It's a game of three halves!

Ooooooog

  • Posts: 1083
Re: Daily/weekly vehicle checks.
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2019, 08:37:41 pm »
I'm not minimising the importance of drivers and owners ensuring their vans are roadworthy and safe.

However there is a difference when the Gov website or Highway Code (for example) specifies its advice as something that MUST be done (i.e. it is the law) or as something that SHOULD be done (not law but if you don't and there is an accident/injury then that will weigh against you) and GUIDANCE which is advice as to how you might carry out inspections to comply with law and recommendations.

Cutting corners is okay? That’s subjective I guess.

If you’ve five or more employees you’re obligated to keep records of checks.
Not just vehicles but any ladders, harnesses other ppe etc.

John Mart

Re: Daily/weekly vehicle checks.
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2019, 08:44:29 pm »
I'm not minimising the importance of drivers and owners ensuring their vans are roadworthy and safe.

However there is a difference when the Gov website or Highway Code (for example) specifies its advice as something that MUST be done (i.e. it is the law) or as something that SHOULD be done (not law but if you don't and there is an accident/injury then that will weigh against you) and GUIDANCE which is advice as to how you might carry out inspections to comply with law and recommendations.
I think you read it as I do.

CleanClear

  • Posts: 14213
Re: Daily/weekly vehicle checks.
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2019, 09:24:00 pm »

At one time it was totally my responsibility to ensure my Bedford truck was roadworthy before I got into it each day.


You're misleading again, albeit not intentionally i presume .  I can assure you nothings changed.  If you got in that Bedford tomorrow its still your responsibility to make sure its roadworthy, not sure how you're not understanding this?
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Smudger

  • Posts: 13209
Re: Daily/weekly vehicle checks.
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2019, 09:44:26 pm »
I'm not minimising the importance of drivers and owners ensuring their vans are roadworthy and safe.

However there is a difference when the Gov website or Highway Code (for example) specifies its advice as something that MUST be done (i.e. it is the law) or as something that SHOULD be done (not law but if you don't and there is an accident/injury then that will weigh against you) and GUIDANCE which is advice as to how you might carry out inspections to comply with law and recommendations.
I think you read it as I do.

you might want to interpret how you wish but on the page preceding this guidance it says this

3.1 Check and repair your vans
You should:

carry out daily walkaround checks before using your vans and record any defects
fix any major defects before your vans are sent out
keep a record of your van repairs

there are various other statement on not carrying out daily checks leading to fines and or jail sentences - I suppose its going to depend on what happens with regards to accident and death on the road

just to add - I was legally advised to keep these records - so you take take this little bit of free advice or ignore it hoping for the best

Darran
A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.

www.oddbodscleaning.co.uk

CleanClear

  • Posts: 14213
Re: Daily/weekly vehicle checks.
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2019, 09:54:52 pm »

Just looking at that list you linked to, it's serious overkill as a daily checklist as my guys drive the same van and take them home. Check the tyres every day?

Not having a "blue collar" background I confess to being unaware of this. I'm guessing the ones that do commercial work and have to get safety certification are probably a bit further ahead but I'm going to implement a weekly check sheet to cover my backside.

"overkill" ?  ;D   Not even sure where to start here first......................
Ok, i am... Tyres !   You seem suprised at checking tyres everyday.  Lee Pryor said in his locked thread (of which Dryclean was spot on BTW ) along the lines of "where does it say in law we have to do daily checks".  The answer of course is there is no where in law that says you have to do daily checks.  Although it doesn't say it per se,  its implied . You will be given the  advice  by the Highways Code that you learn when you learn to drive............ Further , the Construction and Use Regulations make it an offence to use  a road a vehicle with no light, no indicator,baldy tyre etc... blah blah blah. The only conceivable way you can know this is to check it before you use it. So its implicitly implied that you will check. If you don't then how will you (the driver) know ?

Doing a weekly checklist will not cover your arse at all, infact it compounds the opposite. Lets take the example of a tyre [still]: as window cleaners carrying heavy weights, stop starting and pulling into kerbs i'll reckon we scrub 'em out , damage them before we go low on tread.  Wall damage to our tyres is very real, i'm sure you don't need me to tell you what can happen with defective tyres but yes they can cause accidents. Accidents aside, lets look at the legal situation if the driver is stopped and found to have a defective tyre with damage on it: On being stopped its a straightforeward "absolute offence" to have a defective tyre [or non functioning indicator etc.].... The only possible mitigation for this is that it was checked prior to the journey......... viola!!! A daily checksheet, timed and signed off. This is nothing new to people who do transport for a living.

And of course you can go on about drivers who have blow up an engine because there was no oil in it, they where not asked to check it, overheated and blow up no water etc..... who's responsibility is it ?

Daily checks before use are essential for lots of reasons.
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Ooooooog

  • Posts: 1083
Re: Daily/weekly vehicle checks.
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2019, 10:06:22 pm »
Daily vehicle checks are really just the tip of the iceberg. There’s a whole world of legal obligations. Ignore them at your peril.

John Mart

Re: Daily/weekly vehicle checks.
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2019, 06:08:30 am »
I'm not minimising the importance of drivers and owners ensuring their vans are roadworthy and safe.

However there is a difference when the Gov website or Highway Code (for example) specifies its advice as something that MUST be done (i.e. it is the law) or as something that SHOULD be done (not law but if you don't and there is an accident/injury then that will weigh against you) and GUIDANCE which is advice as to how you might carry out inspections to comply with law and recommendations.
I think you read it as I do.

you might want to interpret how you wish but on the page preceding this guidance it says this

3.1 Check and repair your vans
You should:

carry out daily walkaround checks before using your vans and record any defects
fix any major defects before your vans are sent out
keep a record of your van repairs

there are various other statement on not carrying out daily checks leading to fines and or jail sentences - I suppose its going to depend on what happens with regards to accident and death on the road

just to add - I was legally advised to keep these records - so you take take this little bit of free advice or ignore it hoping for the best

Darran
You’re wrong. Compare it to HGV.

https://www.gov.uk/being-a-goods-vehicle-operator/maintaining-your-vehicles


You must make sure your drivers carry out a ‘walkaround check’ before driving a vehicle for the first time each day.

John Mart

Re: Daily/weekly vehicle checks.
« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2019, 07:08:27 am »
Daily vehicle checks are really just the tip of the iceberg. There’s a whole world of legal obligations. Ignore them at your peril.
They aren't a legal obligation.