Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Ooooooog on March 13, 2019, 11:18:01 am
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Does anyone use an app for this, rather than pen and paper?
Ta.
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Does anyone use an app for this, rather than pen and paper?
Ta.
An interesting question.
If I was employing and the employee had the use of and responsibilty of a company vehicle then a daily driver's vehicle check would be an important part of the daily routine and part of his terms of employment. I would also sign off the inspection regularily and make it his duty to report any faults immediately.
45 years ago I drove a 7.5 ton Bedford and a daily mechanical check had to be done every morning. In those days it was a day a sheet book where the daily checks boxes were ticked off. Every Friday pm I was officially back at the depot and this book was checked and signed off by our distribution manager.
In those days it was my responsibility to ensure that I reported any fault, bulb out etc, and either fixed it myself or had management book the vehicle in for repair asap with the detail logged for any police inspection.
The flavour of the law seems to have taken that onus away from the driver and made it the responsibility of the employer to ensure the vehicle is completely roadworthy at all times.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/van-drivers-daily-walkaround-check/van-drivers-daily-walkaround-check
As an owner operator I have to admit that I don't do a daily vehicle walkaround, although I do check oil levels and a quick tyre inspection for a deflated tyre. I know if an indicator bulb is out and I also know when the windscreen wipers need replacing and tend to do these items as an when. I also know when a headlamp bulb is out.
The only hassle is checking the stop light bulbs on my own. A couple of weeks ago I got flagged down by an old lady driving a Jag to tell me one of my stop lights was out. I was grateful for that advise, swapped the bulb out with the reverse light bulb before heading off to the local parts guy for a couple of new bulbs. I don't know how long that bulb was out, but had I done a daily check I would have sorted it before Mr Plod drew it to my attention.
This does raise another question. What happens if an employee's van is in a repair workshop for a few days? Many years ago drivers were paid bonus on the work they did. One particular transport company worked 24 hours a day with 3 drivers doing an 8 hour shift each. They used tipper tailers with monoleaf springs on the trailer axles. In winter and on rough roads those springs sometimes broke. But the driver on the shift just carried on until the end of his shift before reporting the fault. He still earned his bonus, but the next driver had to wait until the spring was replaced, thereby loosing his.
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The flavour of the law seems to have taken that onus away from the driver and made it the responsibility of the employer to ensure the vehicle is completely roadworthy at all times.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/van-drivers-daily-walkaround-check/van-drivers-daily-walkaround-check
Not sure where you got that idea from. Its always been the drivers responsibility, whether you're driving your own vehicle or someone elses. You check it before you take it on the road , simple. A sensible employer will have made provisions to ensure this happens too .
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The flavour of the law seems to have taken that onus away from the driver and made it the responsibility of the employer to ensure the vehicle is completely roadworthy at all times.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/van-drivers-daily-walkaround-check/van-drivers-daily-walkaround-check
Not sure where you got that idea from. Its always been the drivers responsibility, whether you're driving your own vehicle or someone elses. You check it before you take it on the road , simple. A sensible employer will have made provisions to ensure this happens too .
At one time it was totally my responsibility to ensure my Bedford truck was roadworthy before I got into it each day.
I guess my statement of the onus being put onto the employer was a little overstated, so I stand corrected. Apologies. But there are instances where a duty of care exists to provide a safe vehicle or an other equipment is also placed on the employer, so a shared liability.
https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/blog/company-car-liability-who-s-responsible
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Does anyone use an app for this, rather than pen and paper?
Ta.
An interesting question.
If I was employing and the employee had the use of and responsibilty of a company vehicle then a daily driver's vehicle check would be an important part of the daily routine and part of his terms of employment. I would also sign off the inspection regularily and make it his duty to report any faults immediately.
45 years ago I drove a 7.5 ton Bedford and a daily mechanical check had to be done every morning. In those days it was a day a sheet book where the daily checks boxes were ticked off. Every Friday pm I was officially back at the depot and this book was checked and signed off by our distribution manager.
In those days it was my responsibility to ensure that I reported any fault, bulb out etc, and either fixed it myself or had management book the vehicle in for repair asap with the detail logged for any police inspection.
The flavour of the law seems to have taken that onus away from the driver and made it the responsibility of the employer to ensure the vehicle is completely roadworthy at all times.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/van-drivers-daily-walkaround-check/van-drivers-daily-walkaround-check
As an owner operator I have to admit that I don't do a daily vehicle walkaround, although I do check oil levels and a quick tyre inspection for a deflated tyre. I know if an indicator bulb is out and I also know when the windscreen wipers need replacing and tend to do these items as an when. I also know when a headlamp bulb is out.
The only hassle is checking the stop light bulbs on my own. A couple of weeks ago I got flagged down by an old lady driving a Jag to tell me one of my stop lights was out. I was grateful for that advise, swapped the bulb out with the reverse light bulb before heading off to the local parts guy for a couple of new bulbs. I don't know how long that bulb was out, but had I done a daily check I would have sorted it before Mr Plod drew it to my attention.
This does raise another question. What happens if an employee's van is in a repair workshop for a few days? Many years ago drivers were paid bonus on the work they did. One particular transport company worked 24 hours a day with 3 drivers doing an 8 hour shift each. They used tipper tailers with monoleaf springs on the trailer axles. In winter and on rough roads those springs sometimes broke. But the driver on the shift just carried on until the end of his shift before reporting the fault. He still earned his bonus, but the next driver had to wait until the spring was replaced, thereby loosing his.
Just looking at that list you linked to, it's serious overkill as a daily checklist as my guys drive the same van and take them home. Check the tyres every day?
Not having a "blue collar" background I confess to being unaware of this. I'm guessing the ones that do commercial work and have to get safety certification are probably a bit further ahead but I'm going to implement a weekly check sheet to cover my backside.
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I use my own list.
Lunch in van - check
Water bottle in van - check
Suncream on - check
Sun glasses on - check.
Headphones on - check
Then go.
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i check my oil and water around once a month,screenwash weekly/2 weekly....no need to check tyres and lights as the van tells me if a bulbs out/tyre losing pressure.....
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M..O.T tells me when tyres are bald or bulbs out :D
I must admit, although i trained as a mechanic when i left school and should know better ive never serviced a vehicle in my life and never checked oil etc.
Mind you ive always had old Sh*ters so i may look after my current van a bit better
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I don't have a vehicle check sheet in the van but it's ingrained in me to check the essentials, tyres included! Transport managers would try to hurry you out the yard but you'd have x amount of time to check the vehicle which pays off (if used) when you get pulled, then vosa can check your vehicle while you can get your feet up on the dash knowing you've done your bit. OK they might find a running fault but you've done what your legally required to do.
Folks come on here going about having this bolted down and crash tested this but don't check the tyres!
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M..O.T tells me when tyres are bald or bulbs out :D
I must admit, although i trained as a mechanic when i left school and should know better ive never serviced a vehicle in my life and never checked oil etc.
Mind you ive always had old Sh*ters so i may look after my current van a bit better
Remind me never to buy a van off you ;D ;D ;D
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I've had a couple of issues with tyres blowing driving hgv's loaded with gas, and it's not nice.
You imagine driving down the road in your nice new van with the nice sign writing and £10000 heated system bolted down and next you know your swerving from one lane to the other, your a rse piece is clenching or maybe it was to late to clench and you've sharted!
Vans written off because your crashed tested system is invisible and you never checked the tyres... But that's alright because you've got insurance cover for a wfp hire van....
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I'm not minimising the importance of drivers and owners ensuring their vans are roadworthy and safe.
However there is a difference when the Gov website or Highway Code (for example) specifies its advice as something that MUST be done (i.e. it is the law) or as something that SHOULD be done (not law but if you don't and there is an accident/injury then that will weigh against you) and GUIDANCE which is advice as to how you might carry out inspections to comply with law and recommendations.
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I'm not minimising the importance of drivers and owners ensuring their vans are roadworthy and safe.
However there is a difference when the Gov website or Highway Code (for example) specifies its advice as something that MUST be done (i.e. it is the law) or as something that SHOULD be done (not law but if you don't and there is an accident/injury then that will weigh against you) and GUIDANCE which is advice as to how you might carry out inspections to comply with law and recommendations.
Cutting corners is okay? That’s subjective I guess.
If you’ve five or more employees you’re obligated to keep records of checks.
Not just vehicles but any ladders, harnesses other ppe etc.
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I'm not minimising the importance of drivers and owners ensuring their vans are roadworthy and safe.
However there is a difference when the Gov website or Highway Code (for example) specifies its advice as something that MUST be done (i.e. it is the law) or as something that SHOULD be done (not law but if you don't and there is an accident/injury then that will weigh against you) and GUIDANCE which is advice as to how you might carry out inspections to comply with law and recommendations.
I think you read it as I do.
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At one time it was totally my responsibility to ensure my Bedford truck was roadworthy before I got into it each day.
You're misleading again, albeit not intentionally i presume . I can assure you nothings changed. If you got in that Bedford tomorrow its still your responsibility to make sure its roadworthy, not sure how you're not understanding this?
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I'm not minimising the importance of drivers and owners ensuring their vans are roadworthy and safe.
However there is a difference when the Gov website or Highway Code (for example) specifies its advice as something that MUST be done (i.e. it is the law) or as something that SHOULD be done (not law but if you don't and there is an accident/injury then that will weigh against you) and GUIDANCE which is advice as to how you might carry out inspections to comply with law and recommendations.
I think you read it as I do.
you might want to interpret how you wish but on the page preceding this guidance it says this
3.1 Check and repair your vans
You should:
carry out daily walkaround checks before using your vans and record any defects
fix any major defects before your vans are sent out
keep a record of your van repairs
there are various other statement on not carrying out daily checks leading to fines and or jail sentences - I suppose its going to depend on what happens with regards to accident and death on the road
just to add - I was legally advised to keep these records - so you take take this little bit of free advice or ignore it hoping for the best
Darran
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Just looking at that list you linked to, it's serious overkill as a daily checklist as my guys drive the same van and take them home. Check the tyres every day?
Not having a "blue collar" background I confess to being unaware of this. I'm guessing the ones that do commercial work and have to get safety certification are probably a bit further ahead but I'm going to implement a weekly check sheet to cover my backside.
"overkill" ? ;D Not even sure where to start here first......................
Ok, i am... Tyres ! You seem suprised at checking tyres everyday. Lee Pryor said in his locked thread (of which Dryclean was spot on BTW ) along the lines of "where does it say in law we have to do daily checks". The answer of course is there is no where in law that says you have to do daily checks. Although it doesn't say it per se, its implied . You will be given the advice by the Highways Code that you learn when you learn to drive............ Further , the Construction and Use Regulations make it an offence to use a road a vehicle with no light, no indicator,baldy tyre etc... blah blah blah. The only conceivable way you can know this is to check it before you use it. So its implicitly implied that you will check. If you don't then how will you (the driver) know ?
Doing a weekly checklist will not cover your arse at all, infact it compounds the opposite. Lets take the example of a tyre [still]: as window cleaners carrying heavy weights, stop starting and pulling into kerbs i'll reckon we scrub 'em out , damage them before we go low on tread. Wall damage to our tyres is very real, i'm sure you don't need me to tell you what can happen with defective tyres but yes they can cause accidents. Accidents aside, lets look at the legal situation if the driver is stopped and found to have a defective tyre with damage on it: On being stopped its a straightforeward "absolute offence" to have a defective tyre [or non functioning indicator etc.].... The only possible mitigation for this is that it was checked prior to the journey......... viola!!! A daily checksheet, timed and signed off. This is nothing new to people who do transport for a living.
And of course you can go on about drivers who have blow up an engine because there was no oil in it, they where not asked to check it, overheated and blow up no water etc..... who's responsibility is it ?
Daily checks before use are essential for lots of reasons.
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Daily vehicle checks are really just the tip of the iceberg. There’s a whole world of legal obligations. Ignore them at your peril.
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I'm not minimising the importance of drivers and owners ensuring their vans are roadworthy and safe.
However there is a difference when the Gov website or Highway Code (for example) specifies its advice as something that MUST be done (i.e. it is the law) or as something that SHOULD be done (not law but if you don't and there is an accident/injury then that will weigh against you) and GUIDANCE which is advice as to how you might carry out inspections to comply with law and recommendations.
I think you read it as I do.
you might want to interpret how you wish but on the page preceding this guidance it says this
3.1 Check and repair your vans
You should:
carry out daily walkaround checks before using your vans and record any defects
fix any major defects before your vans are sent out
keep a record of your van repairs
there are various other statement on not carrying out daily checks leading to fines and or jail sentences - I suppose its going to depend on what happens with regards to accident and death on the road
just to add - I was legally advised to keep these records - so you take take this little bit of free advice or ignore it hoping for the best
Darran
You’re wrong. Compare it to HGV.
https://www.gov.uk/being-a-goods-vehicle-operator/maintaining-your-vehicles
You must make sure your drivers carry out a ‘walkaround check’ before driving a vehicle for the first time each day.
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Daily vehicle checks are really just the tip of the iceberg. There’s a whole world of legal obligations. Ignore them at your peril.
They aren't a legal obligation.
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Daily vehicle checks are really just the tip of the iceberg. There’s a whole world of legal obligations. Ignore them at your peril.
They aren't a legal obligation.
By law you are supposed to make sure your vehicle is in a safe road worthy condition, daily vehicle checks are part of that procedure, put it this way, should your vehicle be involved in an accident and a fault that should have been checked is found your employee will be done for driving in a vehicle that wasnt road safe and you will also be done for it plus putting your employee in danger, I would say that makes it a legal obligation.
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Daily vehicle checks are really just the tip of the iceberg. There’s a whole world of legal obligations. Ignore them at your peril.
They aren't a legal obligation.
By law you are supposed to make sure your vehicle is in a safe road worthy condition, daily vehicle checks are part of that procedure, put it this way, should your vehicle be involved in an accident and a fault that should have been checked is found your employee will be done for driving in a vehicle that wasnt road safe and you will also be done for it plus putting your employee in danger, I would say that makes it a legal obligation.
Keeping the vehicle safe is a legal obligation. There is no legal obligation for daily checks. You're just wrong. Again.
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Just looking at that list you linked to, it's serious overkill as a daily checklist as my guys drive the same van and take them home. Check the tyres every day?
Not having a "blue collar" background I confess to being unaware of this. I'm guessing the ones that do commercial work and have to get safety certification are probably a bit further ahead but I'm going to implement a weekly check sheet to cover my backside.
Classic!
;D ;D ;D
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Just looking at that list you linked to, it's serious overkill as a daily checklist as my guys drive the same van and take them home. Check the tyres every day?
Not having a "blue collar" background I confess to being unaware of this. I'm guessing the ones that do commercial work and have to get safety certification are probably a bit further ahead but I'm going to implement a weekly check sheet to cover my backside.
Classic!
;D ;D ;D
Thought you'd like it.
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I liked it so much I mentioned it in the Brexit thread!
:)
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Daily vehicle checks are really just the tip of the iceberg. There’s a whole world of legal obligations. Ignore them at your peril.
They aren't a legal obligation.
By law you are supposed to make sure your vehicle is in a safe road worthy condition, daily vehicle checks are part of that procedure, put it this way, should your vehicle be involved in an accident and a fault that should have been checked is found your employee will be done for driving in a vehicle that wasnt road safe and you will also be done for it plus putting your employee in danger, I would say that makes it a legal obligation.
Keeping the vehicle safe is a legal obligation. There is no legal obligation for daily checks. You're just wrong. Again.
It all falls under keeping the vehicle safe, if you where found with a cracked tyre lets see how far I wasnt legally obligated to check it today gets you.
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I liked it so much I mentioned it in the Brexit thread!
:)
If it's done with the intent of humiliation I'd say it was unacceptable behaviour from a forum moderator.
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Does anyone use an app for this, rather than pen and paper?
Ta.
An interesting question.
If I was employing and the employee had the use of and responsibilty of a company vehicle then a daily driver's vehicle check would be an important part of the daily routine and part of his terms of employment. I would also sign off the inspection regularily and make it his duty to report any faults immediately.
45 years ago I drove a 7.5 ton Bedford and a daily mechanical check had to be done every morning. In those days it was a day a sheet book where the daily checks boxes were ticked off. Every Friday pm I was officially back at the depot and this book was checked and signed off by our distribution manager.
In those days it was my responsibility to ensure that I reported any fault, bulb out etc, and either fixed it myself or had management book the vehicle in for repair asap with the detail logged for any police inspection.
The flavour of the law seems to have taken that onus away from the driver and made it the responsibility of the employer to ensure the vehicle is completely roadworthy at all times.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/van-drivers-daily-walkaround-check/van-drivers-daily-walkaround-check
As an owner operator I have to admit that I don't do a daily vehicle walkaround, although I do check oil levels and a quick tyre inspection for a deflated tyre. I know if an indicator bulb is out and I also know when the windscreen wipers need replacing and tend to do these items as an when. I also know when a headlamp bulb is out.
The only hassle is checking the stop light bulbs on my own. A couple of weeks ago I got flagged down by an old lady driving a Jag to tell me one of my stop lights was out. I was grateful for that advise, swapped the bulb out with the reverse light bulb before heading off to the local parts guy for a couple of new bulbs. I don't know how long that bulb was out, but had I done a daily check I would have sorted it before Mr Plod drew it to my attention.
This does raise another question. What happens if an employee's van is in a repair workshop for a few days? Many years ago drivers were paid bonus on the work they did. One particular transport company worked 24 hours a day with 3 drivers doing an 8 hour shift each. They used tipper tailers with monoleaf springs on the trailer axles. In winter and on rough roads those springs sometimes broke. But the driver on the shift just carried on until the end of his shift before reporting the fault. He still earned his bonus, but the next driver had to wait until the spring was replaced, thereby loosing his.
Still in place nowadays, I drive coaches part time and w have a book with defect sheets in, which needs to be filled in before each day’s first use. Lights wipers oil water, seat belts tyres brakes mirrors emergency exit buzzers etc etc....
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I liked it so much I mentioned it in the Brexit thread!
:)
If it's done with the intent of humiliation I'd say it was unacceptable behaviour from a forum moderator.
What if it's done without the intent of humiliation?
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Daily vehicle checks are really just the tip of the iceberg. There’s a whole world of legal obligations. Ignore them at your peril.
They aren't a legal obligation.
By law you are supposed to make sure your vehicle is in a safe road worthy condition, daily vehicle checks are part of that procedure, put it this way, should your vehicle be involved in an accident and a fault that should have been checked is found your employee will be done for driving in a vehicle that wasnt road safe and you will also be done for it plus putting your employee in danger, I would say that makes it a legal obligation.
Oh dear. Looks like your giving out legal advice there. Wrong legal advice. Did you not read the link I posted for you the other day From the gov own site on vehicle health and saftey that shows exactly what the legal requirements are? I guess not as you are still giving out the wrong legal advice.
Its safe to say we dont like each other isnt it Dry clean/ Sean or whatever your actual name is that you hide like a coward. I do however notice one very big differnce between us. I and others im similar positions give advice on things I have actually done and experienced but you give advice/opinions on things you have not done or experienced which I find very strange. Your a one man band that really hasnt achieved anything, constantly bashing bigger companies and telling them how to run their business or telling them their wrong or their figures dont work or there a liar ect ect. Am I really the only person that thinks this is weird!? Your like the anti christ of negative energy. Hows that working out for you being so negative all the time? Does it help you reach your goals and ambitions? Oh wait, you probably dont have any, but if someone comes on here that does that makes them wrong and you feel the need to bring them down in any way you can. I am really sorry if you happen to think I am being directly rude to you. If so then maybe thats how I feel every time your calling me playground names or a liar.
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Dry your eyes and get on with your life Lee, I don't like or dislike you, I think as was said by others you attract rudeness ( they don't even have a good word to say about you on the so called nice forum) but thats no excuse and I should have known better.
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Right well let’s all agree to disagree and move on.
I’m looking for an app to log the checks, if anyone uses one, could they post a link please.
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I liked it so much I mentioned it in the Brexit thread!
:)
If it's done with the intent of humiliation I'd say it was unacceptable behaviour from a forum moderator.
What if it's done without the intent of humiliation?
Unfortunately it's very difficult to judge intent.
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Right well let’s all agree to disagree and move on.
I’m looking for an app to log the checks, if anyone uses one, could they post a link please.
Very good advice.
A "heads up" now.
I'm off to shine some glass - when I come back I shall look at the forum as is my wont - if I find that this thread has turned into a Lee Pryor/Dry Clean bashing each other with the usual suspects chiming in then it will be locked and bans meted out. Protests of "he is worse than me" or "he started it" will not wash.
That is if other mods or Forum admin haven't beaten me to it.
Be nice folks - we can all offer a lot to each other or we can destroy camaraderie by getting into an insulting and abusive pattern of behaviour.
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Right well let’s all agree to disagree and move on.
I’m looking for an app to log the checks, if anyone uses one, could they post a link please.
We record weekly checks.
http://tinyurl.com/y23du5o4
Great app, so simple to use.
You should ensure roadworthiness of any vehicle you drive every time you drive it.
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Right well let’s all agree to disagree and move on.
I’m looking for an app to log the checks, if anyone uses one, could they post a link please.
We record weekly checks.
http://tinyurl.com/y23du5o4
Great app, so simple to use.
You should ensure roadworthiness of any vehicle you drive every time you drive it.
You should be doing daily checks then.
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Right well let’s all agree to disagree and move on.
I’m looking for an app to log the checks, if anyone uses one, could they post a link please.
We record weekly checks.
http://tinyurl.com/y23du5o4
Great app, so simple to use.
You should ensure roadworthiness of any vehicle you drive every time you drive it.
You should be doing daily checks then.
As should everyone.
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Right well let’s all agree to disagree and move on.
I’m looking for an app to log the checks, if anyone uses one, could they post a link please.
We record weekly checks.
http://tinyurl.com/y23du5o4
Great app, so simple to use.
You should ensure roadworthiness of any vehicle you drive every time you drive it.
You should be doing daily checks then.
As should everyone.
In an ideal world there's lots we can do to reduce health and safety risks, but whether formally or informally we have a likelihood/impact chart in our heads. So with a PSV or HGV we balance the scale of the impact with the likelihood and we are more rigorous with our checks. The law requires that.
Ensuring that window cleaning vans are road worthy by means of carrying out the repair of reported faults and maintaining the vehicles in line with manufacturer's requirements is what is required by law. If you go beyond that, give yourself a shiny.
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In an ideal world there's lots we can do to reduce health and safety risks, but whether formally or informally we have a likelihood/impact chart in our heads. So with a PSV or HGV we balance the scale of the impact with the likelihood and we are more rigorous with our checks. The law requires that.
Ensuring that window cleaning vans are road worthy by means of carrying out the repair of reported faults and maintaining the vehicles in line with manufacturer's requirements is what is required by law. If you go beyond that, give yourself a shiny.
You need to step away from the internet. Tosh has turned you into an argumentative git.
It's the law that if you drive a vehicle on the road you should ensure it is road worthy. You will be fined if you get caught driving one that isn't. It's that simple.
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Right well let’s all agree to disagree and move on.
I’m looking for an app to log the checks, if anyone uses one, could they post a link please.
We record weekly checks.
http://tinyurl.com/y23du5o4
Great app, so simple to use.
You should ensure roadworthiness of any vehicle you drive every time you drive it.
Luddite!
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I’m really not sure why people are so ANTI getting daily inspection sheets in their vehicles - inspection takes a few minutes and you put the paperwork in a folder at the end of the week (well fortnightly for me)
Do you not carry out checks because your worried about what you find ?
Darran
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In an ideal world there's lots we can do to reduce health and safety risks, but whether formally or informally we have a likelihood/impact chart in our heads. So with a PSV or HGV we balance the scale of the impact with the likelihood and we are more rigorous with our checks. The law requires that.
Ensuring that window cleaning vans are road worthy by means of carrying out the repair of reported faults and maintaining the vehicles in line with manufacturer's requirements is what is required by law. If you go beyond that, give yourself a shiny.
You need to step away from the internet. Tosh has turned you into an argumentative git.
It's the law that if you drive a vehicle on the road you should ensure it is road worthy. You will be fined if you get caught driving one that isn't. It's that simple.
It isn't the law that you undertake daily checks. That is what several posters are claiming.
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I’m really not sure why people are so ANTI getting daily inspection sheets in their vehicles - inspection takes a few minutes and you put the paperwork in a folder at the end of the week (well fortnightly for me)
Do you not carry out checks because your worried about what you find ?
Darran
Nope. 4 vehicles including a truck. 2014, 2016, 2018, 2018. I'm not worried at all. Any faults are fixed ASAP. Tyres checked regularly etc.
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It isn't the law that you undertake daily checks. That is what several posters are claiming.
The law prohibits you from taking an unroadworthy vehicle on the road. Its the same thing.
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It isn't the law that you undertake daily checks. That is what several posters are claiming.
The law prohibits you from taking an unroadworthy vehicle on the road. Its the same thing.
Nah, you don't need to check them EVERY DAY.
Not days they aren't going to be driven on the road anyway.
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It isn't the law that you undertake daily checks. That is what several posters are claiming.
The law prohibits you from taking an unroadworthy vehicle on the road. Its the same thing.
Nah, you don't need to check them EVERY DAY.
Not days they aren't going to be driven on the road anyway.
Correct, pre use checks they should really be called.
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It isn't the law that you undertake daily checks. That is what several posters are claiming.
The law prohibits you from taking an unroadworthy vehicle on the road. Its the same thing.
It isn't the same thing at all. I don't check my car every day before driving it but any faults become apparent whilst driving. I check the tyres every few weeks though. If you're driving 10+ years old vans then fair enough perhaps.
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Look, don't buy these they're a waste of time:
https://www.novadata.co.uk/det/736/Van_Drivers_Daily_Check_Defect_Book/
Ignore this, its a load of waffle:
https://www.cbvcvehiclemanagement.co.uk/post/daily-vehicle-checks/
And ignore this, i mean its not like Insurance Companies know anything about managing risk:
https://www.aviva.co.uk/risksolutions/knowledgestore/answer/1609/
Carry on just as you are, you'll be fine. We're just telling you stuff to be awkward. Luckily, being astute you saw through it all. Sorry about that. We had you going for a bit though didn't we ? !!! ;D
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Look, don't buy these they're a waste of time:
https://www.novadata.co.uk/det/736/Van_Drivers_Daily_Check_Defect_Book/
Ignore this, its a load of waffle:
https://www.cbvcvehiclemanagement.co.uk/post/daily-vehicle-checks/
And ignore this, i mean its not like Insurance Companies know anything about managing risk:
https://www.aviva.co.uk/risksolutions/knowledgestore/answer/1609/
Carry on just as you are, you'll be fine. We're just telling you stuff to be awkward. Luckily, being astute you saw through it all. Sorry about that. We had you going for a bit though didn't we ? !!! ;D
You're just a shill for the £2.16 vehicle check book group.
Follow the money.
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Look, don't buy these they're a waste of time:
https://www.novadata.co.uk/det/736/Van_Drivers_Daily_Check_Defect_Book/
Ignore this, its a load of waffle:
https://www.cbvcvehiclemanagement.co.uk/post/daily-vehicle-checks/
And ignore this, i mean its not like Insurance Companies know anything about managing risk:
https://www.aviva.co.uk/risksolutions/knowledgestore/answer/1609/
Carry on just as you are, you'll be fine. We're just telling you stuff to be awkward. Luckily, being astute you saw through it all. Sorry about that. We had you going for a bit though didn't we ? !!! ;D
There is no legal requirement for daily vehicle inspections for vans.
As stated above, I've decided to introduce a weekly checklist, but don't give legal advice unless you know what you're talking about. I've posted the links to the relevant documents and a daily checklist is NOT a legal requirement. I don't quite know why you're persisting.
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I think we’re persisting because we would hate to see you caught by the law
I will post this and that will be last on this subject - personally I still don’t see why you have to resist other than to be bloody minded and not prepared to concede you may be wrong
Your Legal Obligations:
As part of you the Road Traffic Act 1988, your declaration to ensure your vans are maintained to a roadworthy standard includes ensuring your drivers carry out daily walk around checks of your vehicles. The check should cover the external condition, ensuring in particular that the lights, tyres, wheel fixings, bodywork, trailer coupling, load and ancillary serviceable. Drivers must be able to report any defects that could prevent the safe operation of the vehicle
Best regards
Darran
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I liked it so much I mentioned it in the Brexit thread!
:)
If it's done with the intent of humiliation I'd say it was unacceptable behaviour from a forum moderator.
Not often I’d agree with 8w, but he’s right. Goldy you are a bit of an old hypocrite.
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As stated above, I've decided to introduce a weekly checklist, but don't give legal advice unless you know what you're talking about. I've posted the links to the relevant documents and a daily checklist is NOT a legal requirement. I don't quite know why you're persisting.
You're forgetting who you are arguing with and who you aint and what people are saying. I didn't give legal advice, i advised you best practice and what you should do. I do know what i'm talking about. So i will give you the legal take on it for your avoidance of any doubt:
Road Traffic Act 1988 (https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/contents)
Section 38:The Highway Code.
(1)The Highway Code shall continue to have effect, subject however to revision in accordance with the following provisions of this section.
(7)A failure on the part of a person to observe a provision of the Highway Code shall not of itself render that person liable to criminal proceedings of any kind but any such failure may in any proceedings (whether civil or criminal, and including proceedings for an offence under the Traffic Acts, the M1Public Passenger Vehicles Act 1981 or sections 18 to 23 of the M2Transport Act 1985) be relied upon by any party to the proceedings as tending to establish or negative any liability which is in question in those proceedings.
Lets see what the Highway Code tells us to do:
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1552580732_hcode1.png)
I see there is different rule for "Commercial Vehicles" , lets see what that says............
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1552580786_hcode2.png)
Ah, you're gonna say you aint a Commercial Vehicle maybe ? Your Insurance Policy will probably tell you that you are a Commercial Vehicle, as will the DVSA who can stop and check you..........
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1552580952_hcode3.png)
And finally, not legal advice granted, but best practice advised by the people who actually Police vans and light goods vehicles .............
https://www.novadata.co.uk/userdata/files/your-van-best-practice-guide.pdf
You are a perfect example of why it says "do not drink" on a bottle of bleach.
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I think we’re persisting because we would hate to see you caught by the law
I will post this and that will be last on this subject - personally I still don’t see why you have to resist other than to be bloody minded and not prepared to concede you may be wrong
Your Legal Obligations:
As part of you the Road Traffic Act 1988, your declaration to ensure your vans are maintained to a roadworthy standard includes ensuring your drivers carry out daily walk around checks of your vehicles. The check should cover the external condition, ensuring in particular that the lights, tyres, wheel fixings, bodywork, trailer coupling, load and ancillary serviceable. Drivers must be able to report any defects that could prevent the safe operation of the vehicle
Best regards
Darran
This is getting silly.
From Government website about vans. A checklist:
3. Operator checklist
Use this checklist to help make your van fleet roadworthy and compliant.
3.1 Check and repair your vans
You should:
carry out daily walkaround checks before using your vans and record any defects
fix any major defects before your vans are sent out
keep a record of your van repairs
3.2 Maintain your vans
You should:
service your vehicles to at least the minimum standard in line with the manufacturer’s guidelines
get qualified people to frequently check safety critical components like brakes if your vans are subject to demanding work
make sure your vans are always insured, taxed and MOT’d and document this process
3.3 Keep records
You should keep records of the following for at least 15 months as part of an effective maintenance system:
From same government website about operating HGVs
Carrying out your own inspections and maintenance
If you carry out your own safety inspections and maintenance, you must keep records that include:
vehicle details
a list of all items to be inspected
when and by whom the inspection is carried out
the result of the inspection
details of any work carried out
a declaration that any defects have been properly fixed
Walkaround checks
You must make sure your drivers carry out a ‘walkaround check’ before driving a vehicle for the first time each day.
One is SHOULD and is just a checklist and the other is MUST.
There is no legal requirement to carry out daily checks. If you do so, great! And it sounds as though you're forced down that road for certain certification for site work, but please don't give inaccurate legal advice.
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As stated above, I've decided to introduce a weekly checklist, but don't give legal advice unless you know what you're talking about. I've posted the links to the relevant documents and a daily checklist is NOT a legal requirement. I don't quite know why you're persisting.
You're forgetting who you are arguing with and who you aint and what people are saying. I didn't give legal advice, i advised you best practice and what you should do. I do know what i'm talking about. So i will give you the legal take on it for your avoidance of any doubt:
Road Traffic Act 1988 (https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/contents)
Section 38:The Highway Code.
(1)The Highway Code shall continue to have effect, subject however to revision in accordance with the following provisions of this section.
(7)A failure on the part of a person to observe a provision of the Highway Code shall not of itself render that person liable to criminal proceedings of any kind but any such failure may in any proceedings (whether civil or criminal, and including proceedings for an offence under the Traffic Acts, the M1Public Passenger Vehicles Act 1981 or sections 18 to 23 of the M2Transport Act 1985) be relied upon by any party to the proceedings as tending to establish or negative any liability which is in question in those proceedings.
Lets see what the Highway Code tells us to do:
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1552580732_hcode1.png)
I see there is different rule for "Commercial Vehicles" , lets see what that says............
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1552580786_hcode2.png)
Ah, you're gonna say you aint a Commercial Vehicle maybe ? Your Insurance Policy will probably tell you that you are a Commercial Vehicle, as will the DVSA who can stop and check you..........
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1552580952_hcode3.png)
And finally, not legal advice granted, but best practice advised by the people who actually Police vans and light goods vehicles .............
https://www.novadata.co.uk/userdata/files/your-van-best-practice-guide.pdf
You are a perfect example of why it says "do not drink" on a bottle of bleach.
::)roll
There is no requirement by law for a daily written checklist.
Tell me where it says so in the Highway Code.
No one is arguing about whether it's best practice or not. I accept it is.
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From same government website about operating HGVs
Carrying out your own inspections and maintenance
If you carry out your own safety inspections and maintenance, you must keep records that include:
vehicle details
a list of all items to be inspected
when and by whom the inspection is carried out
the result of the inspection
details of any work carried out
a declaration that any defects have been properly fixed
Walkaround checks
You must make sure your drivers carry out a ‘walkaround check’ before driving a vehicle for the first time each day.
One is SHOULD and is just a checklist and the other is MUST.
There is no legal requirement to carry out daily checks. If you do so, great! And it sounds as though you're forced down that road for certain certification for site work, but please don't give inaccurate legal advice.
Because you do not understand what you are reading. Saftey Inspections on vehicles are seperate from pre use checks. They are set at frequencies decided by the Traffic Commisioner for the individual operator. They do not apply to vans. They are usually an indepth check of brack pipes/lines , drums, discs , cargo securing mechanisms, steering racks/ rods etc... usually around the 8 weekly frequency ironically !!!!
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From same government website about operating HGVs
Carrying out your own inspections and maintenance
If you carry out your own safety inspections and maintenance, you must keep records that include:
vehicle details
a list of all items to be inspected
when and by whom the inspection is carried out
the result of the inspection
details of any work carried out
a declaration that any defects have been properly fixed
Walkaround checks
You must make sure your drivers carry out a ‘walkaround check’ before driving a vehicle for the first time each day.
One is SHOULD and is just a checklist and the other is MUST.
There is no legal requirement to carry out daily checks. If you do so, great! And it sounds as though you're forced down that road for certain certification for site work, but please don't give inaccurate legal advice.
Because you do not understand what you are reading. Saftey Inspections on vehicles are seperate from pre use checks. They are set at frequencies decided by the Traffic Commisioner for the individual operator. They do not apply to vans. They are usually an indepth check of brack pipes/lines , drums, discs , cargo securing mechanisms, steering racks/ rods etc... usually around the 8 weekly frequency ironically !!!!
I do understand. You didn't read it all. Look at the last line:
You must make sure your drivers carry out a ‘walkaround check’ before driving a vehicle for the first time each day.
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I do understand. You didn't read it all. Look at the last line:
You must make sure your drivers carry out a ‘walkaround check’ before driving a vehicle for the first time each day.
Tell me how you ensure that happens ? WHats your procedure if they have a fault/problem ?
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From same government website about operating HGVs
Carrying out your own inspections and maintenance
If you carry out your own safety inspections and maintenance, you must keep records that include:
vehicle details
a list of all items to be inspected
when and by whom the inspection is carried out
the result of the inspection
details of any work carried out
a declaration that any defects have been properly fixed
Walkaround checks
You must make sure your drivers carry out a ‘walkaround check’ before driving a vehicle for the first time each day.
One is SHOULD and is just a checklist and the other is MUST.
There is no legal requirement to carry out daily checks. If you do so, great! And it sounds as though you're forced down that road for certain certification for site work, but please don't give inaccurate legal advice.
Because you do not understand what you are reading. Saftey Inspections on vehicles are seperate from pre use checks. They are set at frequencies decided by the Traffic Commisioner for the individual operator. They do not apply to vans. They are usually an indepth check of brack pipes/lines , drums, discs , cargo securing mechanisms, steering racks/ rods etc... usually around the 8 weekly frequency ironically !!!!
I do understand. You didn't read it all. Look at the last line:
You must make sure your drivers carry out a ‘walkaround check’ before driving a vehicle for the first time each day.
And how do you prove that that has been done ? by a daily cheak sheet signed by the driver before comensing work . If you are stoped by the police or vosa you have to be able to prove it has been done in writing not just verbally. All emergency servjce vehicles and most big companies do this as a matter of course and have done for years , I was driving hgv over 30 years ago for wincanton transport and we had them back then it’s nothing new , but checks have to be signed for you cannot just say you have done it
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whatever happened to common sense? ::)roll
what a sad world we live in today......
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just found this
Defect Checks and Compliance System
DVSA, HSE and Border Force as well as LOLER, PUWER and ADR compliant
Quick and effective driver walk around, Pre-Use or first user checks.
Customised Checks tailored to your requirements.
All reported data available in real time.
Data CANNOT be manipulated.
Full audit trail with user interaction at each stage.
Legally defensible position.
https://www.checkedsafe.com
OP - hopefully this is what you were looking for
Darran
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if your fleet of vans is under a "vehicle operators licencee" then your where to have a 6 weekly check of all vehicle that are under the licencee, also a daily check is a must and any defeat must be recorded on a check sheet,a hgv driver would have to show that he taken the time for a inspection at any working day,by other work mode on a tacho(fitting a tacho and driving straight off shows he never done checks"
as must of you dont fall or operate under a "vehicle operators licence" then the above doesnt or didnt effect you,but common sense tell you to do a daily check as a driver is liable if anything wrong,Vosa will not except the boss said its ok to drive
the reason i said doesnt or didnt effect you is that in pass life as transport manger which was how it was over 13years ago.,things may have changed a bit so not 100% but this could be why your all getting cross reference about it all
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if your fleet of vans is under a "vehicle operators licencee" then your where to have a 6 weekly check of all vehicle that are under the licencee, also a daily check is a must and any defeat must be recorded on a check sheet,a hgv driver would have to show that he taken the time for a inspection at any working day,by other work mode on a tacho(fitting a tacho and driving straight off shows he never done checks"
as must of you dont fall or operate under a "vehicle operators licence" then the above doesnt or didnt effect you,but common sense tell you to do a daily check as a driver is liable if anything wrong,Vosa will not except the boss said its ok to drive
the reason i said doesnt or didnt effect you is that in pass life as transport manger which was how it was over 13years ago.,things may have changed a bit so not 100% but this could be why your all getting cross reference about it all
What did you get mate, National or International CPC ?
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if your fleet of vans is under a "vehicle operators licencee" then your where to have a 6 weekly check of all vehicle that are under the licencee, also a daily check is a must and any defeat must be recorded on a check sheet,a hgv driver would have to show that he taken the time for a inspection at any working day,by other work mode on a tacho(fitting a tacho and driving straight off shows he never done checks"
as must of you dont fall or operate under a "vehicle operators licence" then the above doesnt or didnt effect you,but common sense tell you to do a daily check as a driver is liable if anything wrong,Vosa will not except the boss said its ok to drive
the reason i said doesnt or didnt effect you is that in pass life as transport manger which was how it was over 13years ago.,things may have changed a bit so not 100% but this could be why your all getting cross reference about it all
What did you get mate, National or International CPC ?
never done a CPC has i left when i should have been put though it within the next 6months if i was staying,at the time they only had national but now have international as well (David Hathaway transport)