[Stoots]

Nope not a trouser episode, 

Back in September i sent a £12  debt to the small claims court. (it cost £25 to file the claim so total claim £37)

Ive just received back today the customers response, he is defending the claim!

I really hoped it wouldnt go this far, that he would do the right thing and cough up, but it seems he is a nob

Ive filed 2-3 claims before and been paid out, so wasnt expecting a challenge

Very annoyed i was at this, but now i see it as a challenge, bit of entertainment and a battle of nerve and wits 

I have 3 weeks to decide to pursue it through court or drop it. i know really i should drop it, quit whilst im ahead and move on with my life, its not worth it right?,..only theres a principle at play here, ive done nothing wrong at all and the money is owed.

Basically, he messaged me around feburary last year and we agreed a 4 weekly clean (i will add  our entire corespondance is through facebook messenger so i have all the evidence.

march, april, may were all cleaned, i messaged him ahead on all months and money left out or he paid online.

messaged for june, no response, no biggie went and cleaned and posted a note.

next couple of months i sent 2-3 messages for payment to no reply. so eventually sent a letter in the most, well worded asking for payment within 14 days or would send to small claims.

a week or so later, recieved a message, sorry been away, ill send payment

2 days after no payment but another messages, calling me names and saying hes got my pooey letter

i replied in nit the nicest way, bit of abuse (he started it, i couldnt resist)

we went back on forth he said he was on holiday, i said well how was i to know etc etc and to just pay and that would be that, he said he would pay and that i was a lot of names etc and thats how it was left.

few weeks when by and no payment so i filed the claim

and here we are, he has disputed it with a few reasons.

1/ we dont have a written contract and that i was tresspassing on his property as he did not agree to me being on his property that day

2/ he returned home 2 weeks after i cleaned and doesnt think that i did a good job

3/ his daughter was in all week and did not see me so doesnt believe i turned up and i didnt leave an invoice (i did)

my argument is we agreed a 4 weekly clean, that we did have a contract (via messenger to a 4 weekly clean) and that i carried out that agreement on the day after i had informed him i was coming. Also that because his daughter did not see me does not mean i wasnt there and that i did indeed leave a note. also he also agreed to send the payment but has since changed his mind and wont send it.

I believe i will win in court, but there is slight doubt in my mind as i can not actually prove i was on his property cleaning on the alleged day.

ap[parently its all down to what the judge believes to be the most likley scenario

good fun eh

[bobplum]

pursue

[Johnny B]

I admire your tenacity, but I would have just not cleaned his windows again and moved on.

That's not to say I would write off the debt. I wouldn't. But I would wait until asked to do the windows again (could be years later) and then insist on payment in full plus the requested clean being in my hands before starting work.

I have a small number of similar cases. It's like cat and mouse, but I have one that I allowed to go too far, but I am bit by bit getting my money back, plus the custoner has learned not to mess me about now and pays promptly.

Hope you are successful.

John

[swanson]

Drop it and move on

[Steve Newres]

Nope not a trouser episode, 

Back in September i sent a £12  debt to the small claims court. (it cost £25 to file the claim so total claim £37)

Ive just received back today the customers response, he is defending the claim!

I really hoped it wouldnt go this far, that he would do the right thing and cough up, but it seems he is a nob

Ive filed 2-3 claims before and been paid out, so wasnt expecting a challenge

Very annoyed i was at this, but now i see it as a challenge, bit of entertainment and a battle of nerve and wits 

I have 3 weeks to decide to pursue it through court or drop it. i know really i should drop it, quit whilst im ahead and move on with my life, its not worth it right?,..only theres a principle at play here, ive done nothing wrong at all and the money is owed.

Basically, he messaged me around feburary last year and we agreed a 4 weekly clean (i will add  our entire corespondance is through facebook messenger so i have all the evidence.

march, april, may were all cleaned, i messaged him ahead on all months and money left out or he paid online.

messaged for june, no response, no biggie went and cleaned and posted a note.

next couple of months i sent 2-3 messages for payment to no reply. so eventually sent a letter in the most, well worded asking for payment within 14 days or would send to small claims.

a week or so later, recieved a message, sorry been away, ill send payment

2 days after no payment but another messages, calling me names and saying hes got my pooey letter

i replied in nit the nicest way, bit of abuse (he started it, i couldnt resist)

we went back on forth he said he was on holiday, i said well how was i to know etc etc and to just pay and that would be that, he said he would pay and that i was a lot of names etc and thats how it was left.

few weeks when by and no payment so i filed the claim

and here we are, he has disputed it with a few reasons.

1/ we dont have a written contract and that i was tresspassing on his property as he did not agree to me being on his property that day

2/ he returned home 2 weeks after i cleaned and doesnt think that i did a good job

3/ his daughter was in all week and did not see me so doesnt believe i turned up and i didnt leave an invoice (i did)

my argument is we agreed a 4 weekly clean, that we did have a contract (via messenger to a 4 weekly clean) and that i carried out that agreement on the day after i had informed him i was coming. Also that because his daughter did not see me does not mean i wasnt there and that i did indeed leave a note. also he also agreed to send the payment but has since changed his mind and wont send it.

I believe i will win in court, but there is slight doubt in my mind as i can not actually prove i was on his property cleaning on the alleged day.

ap[parently its all down to what the judge believes to be the most likley scenario

good fun eh

If you have anything in writing saying he was away, and he'll pay, he's lost as by doing so he's accepted that he wanted you to clean them.

[Perfect Windows]

I wouldn't be giving up a morning/afternoon for £12.

[tlwcs]

Do you still have the texts?

[The Jester of Wibbly]

Go for it as you've got this far. Call his bluff or it will eat you for evermore    But I would have included further charges for your time.   

[Marc Stock]

messaged for june, no response, no biggie went and cleaned and posted a note.

As you have been messaging him before the clean and awaiting a response; you have set out  terms of engagement.

Dont persue this..you will lose.

He didnt respond to you when you asked to clean his windows.. so as per terms of engagement he isnt contracted to you and you are not contracted to him.

If he said yes please come and clean them at the time or something to that effect then you would be able to pursue this.

By going ahead and cleaning  anyway without confirmation, he does not need to pay you and can counter sue you for tresspassing, lost time, and inconvenience.

[slap bash]

Most would just walk away. But if more of us do this we would bring this none payment culture to an end.
 I PERSONALLY APPLAUD YOU  FOR NOT GIVING UP. and thank you for showing these asses that we are a business and can be expected to be paid. Well done. You are absolutely right pursuing payment. Egnor the negative spinless in our industry who will always slither out of expecting payment.  WE as window cleaners need to put our foot down on this attitude  towards our industry,

[slap bash]

messaged for june, no response, no biggie went and cleaned and posted a note.

As you have been messaging him before the clean and awaiting a response; you have set out  terms of engagement.

Dont persue this..you will lose.

You seemed to forget one vital fact he had agreed to a 4 weekly clean and would have been expecting to be cleaned as per agreement. How was the cleaned to have known the customer was away. He should have called and cancelled.


ote]

[robbo333]

Adam

1. Can we see a copy of the actual text you normally send to him?

2. In the March, April, May period (when all was good) did he reply to the texts, or did you just turn up?

3. Did he pay cash, or do you have bank statements confirming his payments?

[Johnny B]

I admire your tenacity, but I would have just not cleaned his windows again and moved on.

That's not to say I would write off the debt. I wouldn't. But I would wait until asked to do the windows again (could be years later) and then insist on payment in full plus the requested clean being in my hands before starting work.

I have a small number of similar cases. It's like cat and mouse, but I have one that I allowed to go too far, but I am bit by bit getting my money back, plus the custoner has learned not to mess me about now and pays promptly.

Hope you are successful.

John

[tlwcs]

messaged for june, no response, no biggie went and cleaned and posted a note.

As you have been messaging him before the clean and awaiting a response; you have set out  terms of engagement.

Dont persue this..you will lose.

He didnt respond to you when you asked to clean his windows.. so as per terms of engagement he isnt contracted to you and you are not contracted to him.

If he said yes please come and clean them at the time or something to that effect then you would be able to pursue this.

By going ahead and cleaning  anyway without confirmation, he does not need to pay you and can counter sue you for tresspassing, lost time, and inconvenience.

He offered to pay in one text

[andyM]

Looking at it from a business perspective I don't believe it's worth chasing.
I would of jacked him as a customer with the £12 owing and just written it off.
I think once you let your emotions start ruling you (anger, frustration) with these situations you are heading down a dead end road.
The situation you are in now is £37 out of pocket which will increase with lost time and earnings for attending court.
Even if you win you will only receive £37 I assume?

 

[Marc Stock]

You seemed to forget one vital fact he had agreed to a 4 weekly clean and would have been expecting to be cleaned as per agreement. How was the cleaned to have known the customer was away. He should have called and cancelled.

By messaging him and waiting for a response to clean them unfortunately he has set terms of engagement.

The court will argue that even though he agreed to a 4 weekly clean, upto that point every message was confirmed with a yes please or ok thanks and then payment made. So in the eyes of the court the terms of engagement require confirmation before each clean.. as he didnt get a response on that occasion and cleaned them anyway he operated outside the terms of engagement and therefore any work completed was not granted by way of permission, so he doent have to pay up and he knows it too which is why he has challanged it.

Now. If the window cleaner had just sent out a text at the very 1st clean i am coming on xx day and he didnt get a response and did it anyway, and he paid..then the terms of engagement would  be different again

[Marc Stock]

messaged for june, no response, no biggie went and cleaned and posted a note.

As you have been messaging him before the clean and awaiting a response; you have set out  terms of engagement.

Dont persue this..you will lose.

He didnt respond to you when you asked to clean his windows.. so as per terms of engagement he isnt contracted to you and you are not contracted to him.

If he said yes please come and clean them at the time or something to that effect then you would be able to pursue this.

By going ahead and cleaning  anyway without confirmation, he does not need to pay you and can counter sue you for tresspassing, lost time, and inconvenience.

He offered to pay in one text

That wont matter as that can be construed as being pressurised.

[Stoots]

messaged for june, no response, no biggie went and cleaned and posted a note.

As you have been messaging him before the clean and awaiting a response; you have set out  terms of engagement.

Dont persue this..you will lose.

He didnt respond to you when you asked to clean his windows.. so as per terms of engagement he isnt contracted to you and you are not contracted to him.

If he said yes please come and clean them at the time or something to that effect then you would be able to pursue this.

By going ahead and cleaning  anyway without confirmation, he does not need to pay you and can counter sue you for tresspassing, lost time, and inconvenience.

You would have a point if it was an agreement that I would not be cleaning unless he says so.

But i wasn't asking for permission I was telling him out of courtesy I am coming.
I do the same with all customers.

We had already agreed a 4 weekly clean.

Although it's a good point as it could depend how the judge sees it!


Meh, i think I might have been better just egging his windows.

[robbo333]

I see it differently:

The guy has agreed to a 4 weekly clean.

I am not sure if the guy has responded to previous texts (but let's say he has). He has also paid, and as far as we aware, been happy with the service. No complaints etc.

On this occasion Adam has no response from his text (the guy could be out the country, broken phone, no signal, drunk, can't be arsed to reply etc, etc).

There is NO TEXT to cancel this particular clean, or cancel the service, so Adam turns up in GOOD FAITH and cleans the property.

Also, (as far as I have read), the guy already agrees to send the payment. It's only when he receives Adam's letter that he turns a bit poo.

Personally, I would never go down this road for £12 (this is why we have Halloween night and cheap eggs from Aldi).

[Marc Stock]

Well the judge will decide on a basis of view similar to what i said above.

On that basis I think the op will loose personally, and i strongly recommend he moves on.