[chris turner]

you was forced into becoming what?

Being self-employed again. Can't you read English?
£26000 salary, +  Expenses, 25 days PAID holiday, Flexi Time, Paid Sick Leave, Final Salary Pension + intellectually challenging work (I.T.).
Daz
£2600K
Window Cleaning and being your own boss is O.K. but it's hard physical work, battling against the weather, it has it's ups but it has it's downs.
If it's all you can do because of your skill set and education it's better than minimum wage but it's still cleaning after all, a job anyone can do.
"Forced" because at 58 trying to get another job in I.T. is a waste of time you're a dinosaur in I.T. at 28 let alone 58!
Good thing about window cleaning is you can throw the ladders on the car, squeegee, applicator couple of scrims, get knocking and even on the first day you'll come back with something to put bread on the table and pay the rent.

£26k a year is not a very good salary IMO even with holiday/sick pay and expenses,etc.i earn a lot more window cleaning 30-35 hours a week 10 months a year.

£26K is the base line, you bang on about how much you earn but you still live in a council flat.
 You will still be paying rent when your body is F ***  by hard physical work window cleaning and you'll still have the rent to pay when you can't work, with no pension.
Self-employment is free and easy on your time but never underestimate the value of a regular salary with benefits, try getting a mortgage now as self-employed and buy yourself out of the "generation rent" trap.

im really not bothered about owning my own property mate.i never have been.im happy to pay a peppercorn rent(£77 per week including gardening services,maintenance etc).in fact ill be getting a new central heating system and boiler soon.

besides my brother is nearly a millionaire now so i know he would see me right if i had to pack in window cleaning for whatever reason.im only 44 though.plenty of life left in me yet!

No wonder you are not bothered - sitting pretty in a nice cozy flat earning twice as much as others struggling to pay far more rent in the private sector. Although I admire your positivity and work ethic , I'm left with doubts as to your integrity.

Screw integrity.
It's not dazmonds fault the system is sh!t and other people are left with low incomes living in high rent accommodation. They made that live for themselves, it's not dazmonds responsibility to pity them and give up his home. Would they do it for him, yer right!
Put yourself in dazmonds shoes for a minute, would you give up your cozy secured flat with cheap rent where you can live the life you want to, to move into unsecured overpriced private renting and live like a pauper?
Or he could buy a property in today's over inflated market, be left with a big mortgage, then in the not too distant future property prices crash and interest rates go up.
Bang go those 5* holidays

[dazmond]

you was forced into becoming what?

Being self-employed again. Can't you read English?
£26000 salary, +  Expenses, 25 days PAID holiday, Flexi Time, Paid Sick Leave, Final Salary Pension + intellectually challenging work (I.T.).
Daz
£2600K
Window Cleaning and being your own boss is O.K. but it's hard physical work, battling against the weather, it has it's ups but it has it's downs.
If it's all you can do because of your skill set and education it's better than minimum wage but it's still cleaning after all, a job anyone can do.
"Forced" because at 58 trying to get another job in I.T. is a waste of time you're a dinosaur in I.T. at 28 let alone 58!
Good thing about window cleaning is you can throw the ladders on the car, squeegee, applicator couple of scrims, get knocking and even on the first day you'll come back with something to put bread on the table and pay the rent.

£26k a year is not a very good salary IMO even with holiday/sick pay and expenses,etc.i earn a lot more window cleaning 30-35 hours a week 10 months a year.

£26K is the base line, you bang on about how much you earn but you still live in a council flat.
 You will still be paying rent when your body is F ***  by hard physical work window cleaning and you'll still have the rent to pay when you can't work, with no pension.
Self-employment is free and easy on your time but never underestimate the value of a regular salary with benefits, try getting a mortgage now as self-employed and buy yourself out of the "generation rent" trap.

im really not bothered about owning my own property mate.i never have been.im happy to pay a peppercorn rent(£77 per week including gardening services,maintenance etc).in fact ill be getting a new central heating system and boiler soon.

besides my brother is nearly a millionaire now so i know he would see me right if i had to pack in window cleaning for whatever reason.im only 44 though.plenty of life left in me yet!

No wonder you are not bothered - sitting pretty in a nice cozy flat earning twice as much as others struggling to pay far more rent in the private sector. Although I admire your positivity and work ethic , I'm left with doubts as to your integrity.

really?

quite a lot of people round here dont work.get all their rent and council tax paid and various other benefits etc,etc.some are whole generations that have never worked a day in their life!

ive always worked and paid my way and never claimed benefits(apart from a couple of months on the dole when i was 20).

just because ive built up a good little business for myself do you think i should go and rent a private flat at an inflated rate?just so another deadleg(and drain on society)can move into my flat?

[chris turner]

you was forced into becoming what?

Being self-employed again. Can't you read English?
£26000 salary, +  Expenses, 25 days PAID holiday, Flexi Time, Paid Sick Leave, Final Salary Pension + intellectually challenging work (I.T.).
Daz
£2600K
Window Cleaning and being your own boss is O.K. but it's hard physical work, battling against the weather, it has it's ups but it has it's downs.
If it's all you can do because of your skill set and education it's better than minimum wage but it's still cleaning after all, a job anyone can do.
"Forced" because at 58 trying to get another job in I.T. is a waste of time you're a dinosaur in I.T. at 28 let alone 58!
Good thing about window cleaning is you can throw the ladders on the car, squeegee, applicator couple of scrims, get knocking and even on the first day you'll come back with something to put bread on the table and pay the rent.

£26k a year is not a very good salary IMO even with holiday/sick pay and expenses,etc.i earn a lot more window cleaning 30-35 hours a week 10 months a year.

£26K is the base line, you bang on about how much you earn but you still live in a council flat.
 You will still be paying rent when your body is F ***  by hard physical work window cleaning and you'll still have the rent to pay when you can't work, with no pension.
Self-employment is free and easy on your time but never underestimate the value of a regular salary with benefits, try getting a mortgage now as self-employed and buy yourself out of the "generation rent" trap.

im really not bothered about owning my own property mate.i never have been.im happy to pay a peppercorn rent(£77 per week including gardening services,maintenance etc).in fact ill be getting a new central heating system and boiler soon.

besides my brother is nearly a millionaire now so i know he would see me right if i had to pack in window cleaning for whatever reason.im only 44 though.plenty of life left in me yet!

No wonder you are not bothered - sitting pretty in a nice cozy flat earning twice as much as others struggling to pay far more rent in the private sector. Although I admire your positivity and work ethic , I'm left with doubts as to your integrity.

really?

quite a lot of people round here dont work.get all their rent and council tax paid and various other benefits etc,etc.some are whole generations that have never worked a day in their life!

ive always worked and paid my way and never claimed benefits(apart from a couple of months on the dole when i was 20).

just because ive built up a good little business for myself do you think i should go and rent a private flat at an inflated rate?just so another deadleg(and drain on society)can move into my flat?

Ignore the haters daz.
My other half is a manager at a housing association and she would have a thousand dazmonds living on her patch if she could .
The hard workers are her best tenants, always pay the rent on time, few complaints and look after the properties.
The unemployed, alcoholic, druggies destroy the properties, have rent arrears, constants noise complaints, asbos etc. They are a drain on the system.
It's going to get much worse once universal credit is fully implemented and all benefits ( including housing benefit) are paid directly to the tenant, who are then expected to pay the rent for themselves!
Expect a glut of evictions over the next few years.
Those that remain in social housing will be the workers or be expected to work, paying market value rent ( to be introduced soon ) so will be no different to private renting, except the money will be lining private authorities pockets rather then private landlords.

[richard groves]

Just hit a raw nerve that's all. I take it back.
My girlfriends sister and brother in laws home was repossessed due to redundancy several years ago .  Although he retrained and became self employed, they were constantly moving because of spiraling private sector rents to the point they were finally evicted from their last unable to meet the cost. They are now in emergency B&B accommodation with their teenage son 25 miles away  , have had money and belongings robbed from them several times by other tenants with drug and alcohol addictions ...... So when I read of a single man in a council flat doing very well financially with a sports car and 5 star holidays. Paying a weekly peppercorn rent of £77 per week that he probably comfortably earns in a couple of hours with the chance of a brand new boiler and central heating provided for him I've wrongly questioned his integrity ( sorry ). More so I should be questioning the system that tars my partners hard working but very unfortunate relatives, who have equally as much pride and as strong a work ethic, with the same brush as the druggie scum they now have to live amongst in a single room infested with bed bugs and run by a fat greedy Arab who has nothing but contempt for them.  Let us never forget how fortunate we are.
Obviously none of this is Dazmonds problem and my comment has no place really on this thread. So I will shut up.

[Mick Kent]

Dazmond i think he meant more that you as a single bloke in a housing flat your doing well getting by with no real stress or bother as would most of us. If you had wife, kids, a £1400 mortgage to pay, loans to pay off, credit card bills etc every month like many out there life becomes much harder and sometimes drags you into nothing if you fall losing job etc. So many people have more debt than they have comng in which is where we window cleaners take it for granted! If i was earning £300 less than what my bills were id simply gain another £300 of work! If a argos checkout lady was £300 short every month then she would slowly go down down down unless found a better paying job or did overtime which isnt always available. I dont take anything for granted and always spare a thought for the flip side of the coin.

[chris turner]

Just hit a raw nerve that's all. I take it back.
My girlfriends sister and brother in law have gone from losing their home due to redundancy and although he retrained and became self employed were constantly moving because of spiraling private sector rents to the point they were finally evicted from their last unable to meet the cost. They are now in emergency B&B accommodation with their teenage son 25 miles away  , have had money and belongings robbed from them several times by other tenants with drug and alcohol addictions .
Obviously none of this is Dazmonds problem and my comment has no place really on this thread. So I will shut up.

It's a tough situation for them barry, I can understand why it would anger you.
The situation is only going to get worse I'm afraid.
Most housing associations are building less new homes due to government budget cuts and forecasts of less rent income due to universal credits.
Coupled with the new right to buy for housing association tenants, which the government are still deliberating, the social housing stock is potentially going to massively decline. Turning an already dire situation into a crisis.
There just isn't enough social housing to go around already, yet my partner and her colleagues fear the government wants to do away with social housing altogether, so everyone owns their own home even if only on a part-buy basis.
All its doing is pushing more and more people into private renting, which in turn is pushing up rents in the private sector.
Surely a cap on private rents along with a guaranteed minimum renting term is the answer, but the government won't do it because a high %  of the private sector landlords are the baby boom generation, the ones the government encouraged to snap properties as investments and the ones who vote the most in the elections.

[Dave Willis]

How do you qualify for a council flat? I want one.

[Tom White]

I was a Staff Sergeant (in a Warrant Officers) job, but I went to the toilet at the wrong time and ended up being a window cleaner.

That was some chain of events.

And because I didn't want to have another 'boss', I wanted to be self employed; so kinda forced into it by the Universe, because I didn't have any other skills.

It's all God's will. 

[davids3511]

I find it difficult to believe those figures. How many of those self employed are actually declaring their full earnings. I know a couple of guys in other trades who only declare the absolute bare minimum.
There are so many loopholes in the complicated tax system of ours that i bet a large percentage of self employed are 'legally' paying very little tax.

Dazmond explained it well, large companies are now employing people under the guise of them being self employed and
getting away with paying less than the minimum wage, plus not paying pensions, holiday pay and other legal employment requirements.
Its a bit like employing  somebody to clean windows under the guise of a franchise, that person isn't self employed he works
for the franchiser but for tax purposes he will be classed as self employed.

Maybe that's how your franchise would work but not how mine work. They are nothing like employees.

[dazmond]

How do you qualify for a council flat? I want one.

i was sleeping on the sofa at a mates house after sleeping in my car for a month in a pub car park back in 1999.cleaning 2 or 3 days a week as i was too ill from drinking most of the time to work any more hours.i had my name down on the social housing list and ended up with a lot of points that qualified me for a flat.ive always paid my rent myself.although i nearly lost it due to rent arrears many years ago due to illness.

[CleanClear]

How do you qualify for a council flat? I want one.

i was sleeping on the sofa at a mates house after sleeping in my car for a month in a pub car park back in 1999.cleaning 2 or 3 days a week as i was too ill from drinking most of the time to work any more hours.i had my name down on the social housing list and ended up with a lot of points that qualified me for a flat.ive always paid my rent myself.although i nearly lost it due to rent arrears many years ago due to illness.

Its a fine line we all tread Daz, and i'm in no way critisising you. You are proud of what you achieved, quite rightly, and yet some see it as "boasting" ?

[dazmond]

Dazmond i think he meant more that you as a single bloke in a housing flat your doing well getting by with no real stress or bother as would most of us. If you had wife, kids, a £1400 mortgage to pay, loans to pay off, credit card bills etc every month like many out there life becomes much harder and sometimes drags you into nothing if you fall losing job etc. So many people have more debt than they have comng in which is where we window cleaners take it for granted! If i was earning £300 less than what my bills were id simply gain another £300 of work! If a argos checkout lady was £300 short every month then she would slowly go down down down unless found a better paying job or did overtime which isnt always available. I dont take anything for granted and always spare a thought for the flip side of the coin.

its my choice to not get married and have kids and a mortgage.also in the past its been hard enough to look after myself never mind anybody else!its easier these days as ive well and truly got my life together like never before.anything else is a bonus.

[SeanK]

I find it difficult to believe those figures. How many of those self employed are actually declaring their full earnings. I know a couple of guys in other trades who only declare the absolute bare minimum.
There are so many loopholes in the complicated tax system of ours that i bet a large percentage of self employed are 'legally' paying very little tax.

Dazmond explained it well, large companies are now employing people under the guise of them being self employed and
getting away with paying less than the minimum wage, plus not paying pensions, holiday pay and other legal employment requirements.
Its a bit like employing  somebody to clean windows under the guise of a franchise, that person isn't self employed he works
for the franchiser but for tax purposes he will be classed as self employed.

Maybe that's how your franchise would work but not how mine work. They are nothing like employees.

They work for your company under your company name and rules, just because you have given them a bit more responsibility
doesn't make them any less an employee, they're certainly not self employed.

[richard groves]

How do you qualify for a council flat? I want one.

i was sleeping on the sofa at a mates house after sleeping in my car for a month in a pub car park back in 1999.cleaning 2 or 3 days a week as i was too ill from drinking most of the time to work any more hours.i had my name down on the social housing list and ended up with a lot of points that qualified me for a flat.ive always paid my rent myself.although i nearly lost it due to rent arrears many years ago due to illness.

Its a fine line we all tread Daz, and i'm in no way critisising you. You are proud of what you achieved, quite rightly, and yet some see it as "boasting" ?

I'm not sure if that comments directed at me ?. But I agree , Daz should be proud of what he's achieved. In fact he is one of the success stories - been given a chance and a helping hand ( a very affordable housing solution ) and made a go of it turning his life around. And as he has already mentioned many, even whole generations , have never worked and comfortably sat on their arses bleeding the system dry.
My relations however, if they were to read this, would wonder what the hell they had done wrong in getting married, starting a family and working hard all their lives. Had they have had a drink problem or a drug addiction they may have acquired more points and be worthy of more help. Where have they ended up ? in B&B with drug addicts and alcoholics ! 
What do you see Dazmond ? when you walk past homeless street drinkers in doorways, another deadleg , drain on society or yourself and the way your life may have gone without fate/opportunity offering you a hand out ?
Any ways my rant is over.
I've strayed off topic once again and so will shut up this time - promise   


I'm not an entrepreneur.
I've hated every job I've ever had. Never been a team player or able to relate to anybody else in the work place or even felt like I've belonged.  A chance interview from answering a job ad, after a break overseas travelling , paved the way to me eventually becoming my own boss. I think nothing of money apart from hating it and the division it creates.  After 10 years I'm now virtually unemployable but free from the shackles of slavery for somebody elses profit and gain. 

[SeanK]

How do you qualify for a council flat? I want one.

i was sleeping on the sofa at a mates house after sleeping in my car for a month in a pub car park back in 1999.cleaning 2 or 3 days a week as i was too ill from drinking most of the time to work any more hours.i had my name down on the social housing list and ended up with a lot of points that qualified me for a flat.ive always paid my rent myself.although i nearly lost it due to rent arrears many years ago due to illness.

Its a fine line we all tread Daz, and i'm in no way critisising you. You are proud of what you achieved, quite rightly, and yet some see it as "boasting" ?

There's nothing wrong in telling a success story but to do it with the intention of belittling somebody else's earnings is
nothing more than boasting, that's what I see in his reply to Positivity.

[CleanClear]

How do you qualify for a council flat? I want one.

i was sleeping on the sofa at a mates house after sleeping in my car for a month in a pub car park back in 1999.cleaning 2 or 3 days a week as i was too ill from drinking most of the time to work any more hours.i had my name down on the social housing list and ended up with a lot of points that qualified me for a flat.ive always paid my rent myself.although i nearly lost it due to rent arrears many years ago due to illness.

Its a fine line we all tread Daz, and i'm in no way critisising you. You are proud of what you achieved, quite rightly, and yet some see it as "boasting" ?

I'm not sure if that comments directed at me ?. But I agree , Daz should be proud of what he's achieved. In fact he is one of the success stories - been given a chance and a helping hand ( a very affordable housing solution ) and made a go of it turning his life around. And as he has already mentioned many, even whole generations , have never worked and comfortably sat on their arses bleeding the system dry.
My relations however, if they were to read this, would wonder what the hell they had done wrong in getting married, starting a family and working hard all their lives. Had they have had a drink problem or a drug addiction they may have acquired more points and be worthy of more help. Where have they ended up ? in B&B with drug addicts and alcoholics ! 
Any ways my rant is over.
I've strayed off topic once again and so will shut up 


I'm not an entrepreneur.
I've hated every job I've ever had. Never been a team player or able to relate to anybody else in the work place or even felt like I've belonged.  A chance interview from answering a job ad, after a break overseas travelling , paved the way to me eventually becoming my own boss.  After 10 years I'm now virtually unemployable but free from the shackles of slavery for somebody elses profit and gain. 

Hi Barry, no it wasn't directed at you sorry if you took it that way it certainley wasn't meant that way and i do see where you can take umberance. I'm probably in exactly the same boat as you, and thats why i'm a window cleaner too.
 But i take on face value what Daz says..and i can understand his want/need or inclination to tell everyone about it. Yes i too can see it as a bit of "gloating", as reading through this thread and others before hand so do others.
 I also see the situation of your relatives. And indeed i've experienced it first hand. I've been there got the T shirt. But anyone can take what they want out the replies in this thread.................. you can sit there and say "we're all doomed", or you can look for a bit of inspiration...  i.e if an ex alky like Daz can do it (hope i'm not insulting you Daz) then there's a chance for anyone. Look up, look at the "boasts" as not "boasts" but look at them as "what is possible" ?
 I hope that clarifies how i feel over it and should be an answer to SeanK too.....? For the record, i'm miles behind Daz earnings..and i thought i was doing good !!!   :-)

[Tosh]

How do you qualify for a council flat? I want one.

i was sleeping on the sofa at a mates house after sleeping in my car for a month in a pub car park back in 1999.cleaning 2 or 3 days a week as i was too ill from drinking most of the time to work any more hours.i had my name down on the social housing list and ended up with a lot of points that qualified me for a flat.ive always paid my rent myself.although i nearly lost it due to rent arrears many years ago due to illness.

Its a fine line we all tread Daz, and i'm in no way critisising you. You are proud of what you achieved, quite rightly, and yet some see it as "boasting" ?

Exactly.

Well done Daz. Im the same as you. Everything I've achieved in my business really should never have happened.

I actually think my dreams and aspirations are fairly mediocre. Saying that, Ive achieved them. So now what? See if they continue I guess or perhaps what I’m able to manage from now on will be a decline. Hope not. Things keep getting better and better so they say, so perhaps I’ll surpass my own aspirations.

Keep an eye out for the photos (with the van)

[richard groves]

How do you qualify for a council flat? I want one.

i was sleeping on the sofa at a mates house after sleeping in my car for a month in a pub car park back in 1999.cleaning 2 or 3 days a week as i was too ill from drinking most of the time to work any more hours.i had my name down on the social housing list and ended up with a lot of points that qualified me for a flat.ive always paid my rent myself.although i nearly lost it due to rent arrears many years ago due to illness.

Its a fine line we all tread Daz, and i'm in no way critisising you. You are proud of what you achieved, quite rightly, and yet some see it as "boasting" ?

I'm not sure if that comments directed at me ?. But I agree , Daz should be proud of what he's achieved. In fact he is one of the success stories - been given a chance and a helping hand ( a very affordable housing solution ) and made a go of it turning his life around. And as he has already mentioned many, even whole generations , have never worked and comfortably sat on their arses bleeding the system dry.
My relations however, if they were to read this, would wonder what the hell they had done wrong in getting married, starting a family and working hard all their lives. Had they have had a drink problem or a drug addiction they may have acquired more points and be worthy of more help. Where have they ended up ? in B&B with drug addicts and alcoholics ! 
Any ways my rant is over.
I've strayed off topic once again and so will shut up 


I'm not an entrepreneur.
I've hated every job I've ever had. Never been a team player or able to relate to anybody else in the work place or even felt like I've belonged.  A chance interview from answering a job ad, after a break overseas travelling , paved the way to me eventually becoming my own boss.  After 10 years I'm now virtually unemployable but free from the shackles of slavery for somebody elses profit and gain. 

Hi Barry, no it wasn't directed at you sorry if you took it that way it certainley wasn't meant that way and i do see where you can take umberance. I'm probably in exactly the same boat as you, and thats why i'm a window cleaner too.
 But i take on face value what Daz says..and i can understand his want/need or inclination to tell everyone about it. Yes i too can see it as a bit of "gloating", as reading through this thread and others before hand so do others.
 I also see the situation of your relatives. And indeed i've experienced it first hand. I've been there got the T shirt. But anyone can take what they want out the replies in this thread.................. you can sit there and say "we're all doomed", or you can look for a bit of inspiration...  i.e if an ex alky like Daz can do it (hope i'm not insulting you Daz) then there's a chance for anyone. Look up, look at the "boasts" as not "boasts" but look at them as "what is possible" ?
 I hope that clarifies how i feel over it and should be an answer to SeanK too.....? For the record, i'm miles behind Daz earnings..and i thought i was doing good !!!   :-)

Not offended in the slightest, in fact what a great reply 
Maybe you should have chosen the name "Positivity" ?........., but guess that was already taken 

[CleanClear]

I just struggle to be "positive", like the rest of us probably. I'm trying my best !!!! On a good day i'll tell you what a blessed life i have and how the job is so easy. On a bad day i'll tell you self employment is hard and no walk in the park and i've identified where i can improve !!! I think just living is hard, its nothing to do specifically with window cleaning !!!     

[Positivity]

Thanks for all the replies - interesting how everyone has a different take on life.
I suppose at the end of the day all we can say is "Life's hard then you die!!!"