[Dave Willis]

In real terms though say you earn £37000 as a self employed windie - you're still not much better off than the salaried person on £27000 are you?

[CleanClear]

The figure for the uk average salary is useless - as the wages in London push the average up, just like the average U.K. house prices

I remember having this discussion before. I thought like you, apparently though they take that into context. I thought...."typical wage" might be better, but again that will come down to where you live and your peer group. Vin from Perfect windows had something to say on the subject, probably proving me wrong !!! :-)  Best we have to go on though is them figures.

It's not an average (mean), it's the middle (median) so it takes a complete spread of salaries and takes the figure in the middle. So it would take into account regional variation assuming the sample was geographically spread.

Yeah ok i think i understand it now. Median, and thats what we are looking at there and its correct. It is typical.............

[CleanClear]

In real terms though say you earn £37000 as a self employed windie - you're still not much better off than the salaried person on £27000 are you?

If you have expenses of 10k a year as a window cleaner (on your todd) then i'd guess you're doing something wrong.

[8weekly]

In real terms though say you earn £37000 as a self employed windie - you're still not much better off than the salaried person on £27000 are you?

True. Probably worse off.

[8weekly]

In real terms though say you earn £37000 as a self employed windie - you're still not much better off than the salaried person on £27000 are you?

If you have expenses of 10k a year as a window cleaner (on your todd) then i'd guess you're doing something wrong.

Holidays, sick pay, pension, health insurance etc.

[Dave Willis]

My costs are typically around 6k a year, no sick pay, no holiday pay plus outgoings for sickness insurance, money aside for the next van, etc. If I only turned over £37000 then I'd just as well be employed for £27000 given the right job.
Many guys only look at their turnover which is great if you are fiddling the system.

[CleanClear]

In real terms though say you earn £37000 as a self employed windie - you're still not much better off than the salaried person on £27000 are you?

If you have expenses of 10k a year as a window cleaner (on your todd) then i'd guess you're doing something wrong.

Holidays, sick pay, pension, health insurance etc.

Pension payments attract no tax. Sick pay for anyone is an unknown..and its cost a pure guess. You may never need it, or to rely on it. But i guess we all save a bit just incase. Holidays is factored in i would assume......27K employed, you have holidays paid. 37K self employed, you done that and still had holidays ? I'd take 37K self employed anyday over 27K employed. Its like being paid 10k a year to run a van !!

[SeanK]

you was forced into becoming what?

Being self-employed again. Can't you read English?
£26000 salary, +  Expenses, 25 days PAID holiday, Flexi Time, Paid Sick Leave, Final Salary Pension + intellectually challenging work (I.T.).
Window Cleaning and being your own boss is O.K. but it's hard physical work, battling against the weather, it has it's ups but it has it's downs.
If it's all you can do because of your skill set and education it's better than minimum wage but it's still cleaning after all, a job anyone can do.
"Forced" because at 58 trying to get another job in I.T. is a waste of time you're a dinosaur in I.T. at 28 let alone 58!
Good thing about window cleaning is you can throw the ladders on the car, squeegee, applicator couple of scrims, get knocking and even on the first day you'll come back with something to put bread on the table and pay the rent.

£26k a year is not a very good salary IMO even with holiday/sick pay and expenses,etc.i earn a lot more window cleaning 30-35 hours a week 10 months a year.

Dazmond get a grip on yourself mate, £26k a year would put you in the top 20% of UK earners not to mention what it would
cost you to build up a £26k a year pension.
Some people need to think before they brag or better still leave it to the guys who are good at it. lol.

Just to be clear I'm not saying you don't earn more than £26k.

Nonsense. The average UK salary is higher than that. I pay my guys £26k.

What's nonsense 80% of the UK population earn less than £22k a year, to get into the top 10% all you need is above £44k
top 5% is £58k and above.

[CleanClear]

My costs are typically around 6k a year, no sick pay, no holiday pay plus outgoings for sickness insurance, money aside for the next van, etc. If I only turned over £37000 then I'd just as well be employed for £27000 given the right job.
Many guys only look at their turnover which is great if you are fiddling the system.

Your higher hourly rate pays for your hols etc ...thats why you do not earn 8/9/10 pound per hour, thats where your holiday pay comes from amongst other stuff. Its nothing to do with "fiddling the system". And..if you have "sickness insurance", i do not have it , but i have had it before..check the details...it probably pays out for a limited period only after you have been off for so long. i.e if you have a week in bed with the Flu, or a sore arm then you'll probably be getting nothing.

Its a foregone conclusion that an employed person will generally work 11 months of the year as they have 1 months holiday as a legal requirement. If like Daz says, and you're pretty average anyway..having some holidays and losing a day or two here and there it will equate to you've probably worked 10 months.

I think where you see the benefit is that you do not have to pay expenses to get to work, for some employed people them expenses are considerable. Thats a massive saving. We, as self employed pay less NI.

[SeanK]

When I was PAYE employed my expenses where around £4k a year which mainly went on a daily 60 mile commute,
no sick pay no free pension and none of that £4k was tax deductible.
So pound for pound I'm better off self employed, as for holiday pay it doesn't exist you work x amount of weeks per year for
x amount of pay divided up into 52 weeks that's how it works PAYE or self employed.

[Leeds]

There was a small line that article that makes the difference - "self-employed are working less hours than 20 years ago"

less hours = less money?? shock. horror.

[8weekly]

you was forced into becoming what?

Being self-employed again. Can't you read English?
£26000 salary, +  Expenses, 25 days PAID holiday, Flexi Time, Paid Sick Leave, Final Salary Pension + intellectually challenging work (I.T.).
Window Cleaning and being your own boss is O.K. but it's hard physical work, battling against the weather, it has it's ups but it has it's downs.
If it's all you can do because of your skill set and education it's better than minimum wage but it's still cleaning after all, a job anyone can do.
"Forced" because at 58 trying to get another job in I.T. is a waste of time you're a dinosaur in I.T. at 28 let alone 58!
Good thing about window cleaning is you can throw the ladders on the car, squeegee, applicator couple of scrims, get knocking and even on the first day you'll come back with something to put bread on the table and pay the rent.

£26k a year is not a very good salary IMO even with holiday/sick pay and expenses,etc.i earn a lot more window cleaning 30-35 hours a week 10 months a year.

Dazmond get a grip on yourself mate, £26k a year would put you in the top 20% of UK earners not to mention what it would
cost you to build up a £26k a year pension.
Some people need to think before they brag or better still leave it to the guys who are good at it. lol.

Just to be clear I'm not saying you don't earn more than £26k.

Nonsense. The average UK salary is higher than that. I pay my guys £26k.

What's nonsense 80% of the UK population earn less than £22k a year, to get into the top 10% all you need is above £44k
top 5% is £58k and above.

38k is the gateway to the top 20%. 26k will put you in the top 40%.

[CleanClear]

37K a year self employed looks like this.....

[CleanClear]

27K a year employed looks like this....

[Dave Willis]

Swings and roundabouts NI is what 9% of gross? The ten grand difference boils down to probably not much more than about three grand provided you're paying the required tax so tutting about a measly 27K a year is much closer to 37k than many think.
I've often wondered how much more a self employed person needs to earn on average to match a salary.
In my employed job I could cycle to work and practically eliminate all costs and I knew I would be paid every week day of the year. I could work overtime and get my holiday pay as an average working weeks pay.

[CleanClear]

Swings and roundabouts NI is what 9% of gross? The ten grand difference boils down to probably not much more than about three grand provided you're paying the required tax so tutting about a measly 27K a year is much closer to 37k than many think.
I've often wondered how much more a self employed person needs to earn on average to match a salary.
In my employed job I could cycle to work and practically eliminate all costs and I knew I would be paid every week day of the year. I could work overtime and get my holiday pay as an average working weeks pay.

Well, we're all different eh ? Some people only run a second family car to get to work, thats a not inconsiderable expense..not liable for any tax break either. And running a car for a year aint cheap. But as you point out, if you can walk to work, thats a cost eliminated...this is all childs stuff really..anyone knows this surely ?

And NI is a percentage of your Nett not your Gross.

[SeanK]

Swings and roundabouts NI is what 9% of gross? The ten grand difference boils down to probably not much more than about three grand provided you're paying the required tax so tutting about a measly 27K a year is much closer to 37k than many think.
I've often wondered how much more a self employed person needs to earn on average to match a salary.
In my employed job I could cycle to work and practically eliminate all costs and I knew I would be paid every week day of the year. I could work overtime and get my holiday pay as an average working weeks pay.

Employed or self employed has nothing to do with it, there will be employed workers paying thousands a year commuting to
work and self employed shiners paying peanuts to work a round on their doorstep and vice versa.

[CleanClear]

There was a small line that article that makes the difference - "self-employed are working less hours than 20 years ago"

less hours = less money?? shock. horror.

"self employed" now covers people on contractors schemes, IR35 schemes and Umbrella companies. Many who find work through agencies..jobs like, labouring, driving, cleaning...that ordinarily attracted "employed status". In effect what you are seeing is casual employees being pushed into "self employed status". Figures and stats eh ?   

[richard groves]

you was forced into becoming what?

Being self-employed again. Can't you read English?
£26000 salary, +  Expenses, 25 days PAID holiday, Flexi Time, Paid Sick Leave, Final Salary Pension + intellectually challenging work (I.T.).
Daz
£2600K
Window Cleaning and being your own boss is O.K. but it's hard physical work, battling against the weather, it has it's ups but it has it's downs.
If it's all you can do because of your skill set and education it's better than minimum wage but it's still cleaning after all, a job anyone can do.
"Forced" because at 58 trying to get another job in I.T. is a waste of time you're a dinosaur in I.T. at 28 let alone 58!
Good thing about window cleaning is you can throw the ladders on the car, squeegee, applicator couple of scrims, get knocking and even on the first day you'll come back with something to put bread on the table and pay the rent.

£26k a year is not a very good salary IMO even with holiday/sick pay and expenses,etc.i earn a lot more window cleaning 30-35 hours a week 10 months a year.

£26K is the base line, you bang on about how much you earn but you still live in a council flat.
 You will still be paying rent when your body is F ***  by hard physical work window cleaning and you'll still have the rent to pay when you can't work, with no pension.
Self-employment is free and easy on your time but never underestimate the value of a regular salary with benefits, try getting a mortgage now as self-employed and buy yourself out of the "generation rent" trap.

im really not bothered about owning my own property mate.i never have been.im happy to pay a peppercorn rent(£77 per week including gardening services,maintenance etc).in fact ill be getting a new central heating system and boiler soon.

besides my brother is nearly a millionaire now so i know he would see me right if i had to pack in window cleaning for whatever reason.im only 44 though.plenty of life left in me yet!

No wonder you are not bothered - sitting pretty in a nice cozy flat earning twice as much as others struggling to pay far more rent in the private sector. Although I admire your positivity and work ethic , I'm left with doubts as to your integrity.

[AuRavelling79]

@Barry Scott

How did you come up with that skewed analysis?