[ian1965]

Hi All At present I have a gravity fed water to 4040 membrane  I am looking to fit a pump to be more efficient - So what would be the best pump to use and at what point is it fitted I am guessing after filters but could be wrong . Thanks in advance

[p1w1]

I have just got one of these  http://gardinerpolesystems.co.uk/all-products/pure-water-systems/water-treatment/booster-pumps/switched-booster-pump-kit-240v-for-prf-ro-systems.html although i haven't got it running yet as i'm waiting for some fittings to arrive. Also depends on what membrane you are using hf5 needs about 80psi to run at its most efficient but a hf4 needs about 100 psi the above booster pump is for an hf5 as its max pressure is about 85psi. You would plumb it in after the mains tap and before your sediment filters and membrane.

[CleanClear]

Hi All At present I have a gravity fed water to 4040 membrane  I am looking to fit a pump to be more efficient - So what would be the best pump to use and at what point is it fitted I am guessing after filters but could be wrong . Thanks in advance

Here's my advice.......... put your pump BEFORE your membranes. I say that just incase a pump fails, maybe through some oil jobby, or bits of the pump blade breaking off then it won't knacker your membrane. Hopefully.
Pump ? Whoa!!!! You can read loads of back posts on this issue. Controversially i'm gonna say this.......Booster pumps , don't bother with them. Thats gonna confuse ya,  'cos you think hey!! i need to boost my pressure. But hear me out.......
 These booster pumps, and i've had them before and i count the Gardiners one above the same..they are all designed to keep a system (usually a household one) at a constant pressure. What does that actually mean ?
 
Well..(i know this is a bit drawn out, bear with me).....the higher water goes, the more pressure you need to get it there. So whilst your shower works fine in your house on the ground floor, if you decide to put a shower in your attic it won't work so good as its lost a load of pressure on the way up. Its not strong enough to get there. YOu may have a great downstairs shower, and a not so good upstairs one. Ok, not a problem you have, but its a problem facing people who have houses of multilple occupancy and maybe four floors, and showers and rooms etc..and they need a constant good pressure. The pump will kick in when it senses pressure drop, and will work its butt off to attain whatever pressure you set it at, then switch off. So the people at the top of the building will have just a great shower as you. Following so far ?  (i hope so !!)
 Now, put this same (switched) booster pump in to your own RO system. See what i did there ? I just added a word......"switched". Thats because they all are. What that means is that it will switch on and off as it detects pressure change. If you're in the top floor of a flat getting a shower you won't notice the pump kicking in and out. If you are an RO in your garage you will...................and pressure change is not good for your RO. It needs to be constant.

So, what to do ?

I almost get fed up of saying this everytime this topic comes up...just get a good "pressure pump". Here's one i've linked to loads of times.....seems no one takes my advice as they all still keep recommending "booster pumps". Here's the pump i recommend...

https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/051012200/

Now i don't work for machine mart, and if i look i can find similar, at similar prices. But mines been going for FIVE years, providing me, my mate and his son with water. And i note its on offer at the moment for £90 with some sort of discount. I just want to butt my head against the wall when everyone is providing links for the Booster pump they bought for 2 or 3 hundred quid and "its never let them down " !!!!!!!!!

But listen, ignore me i'm just chatting crap. June at Gaps water will tell you the perfect pump to get. As will Alex from Gardiners........  take no notice of me. I just clean windows every day. Well...........when i can be arsed. The other thing i never told you was i'm actually a Millionaire and i just do this for fun, just to keep my hand in with the lads , so i can relate to them...you know........................................... drink with them after work etc... I'm not really arsed about your pump.

[alanwilson]

The ideal type of pump for boosting an ro is a multistage centrifugal pump, a peripheral pump or a rotary vane pump.

You need to match the flow to the pressure you want the system to run at, bearing in mind the pump must be rated for continuous operation.

Then it all comes down to the budget you assign for the pump.

To be honest for a single 4040 I'd recommend a procon rotary vane pump. They are designed to operate up to around 250psi with a fairly constant flow of approx 800 litres per hour so if you run at 60% waste that equates to 480 litres waste to 320 litres of pure per hour. Setup will cost about £350 but for a single 4040 it's probably the best setup.

By the way optimum operating pressure for most tap water membranes is around 200psi

[alanwilson]

Cleaning spot do a fluid o tech (just as good) rotary vane pump with motor for £317+vat.

[CleanClear]

Cleaning spot do a fluid o tech (just as good) rotary vane pump with motor for £317+vat.

Alan,i have just had a re read of what i wrote above. It was a load of crap. That bumph you say there is much better, i was way off the mark. I'm sorry to have mislead anyone. You certainley know your stuff mate and i take my hat off to you. I wish i could just delete my post above........ £317+vat for a pump Vs my £90 thats worked for that last five years is a no brainer. #irony alert for you thickos......

[alanwilson]

All depends on how much water you want to produce. I'm certainly not saying there's anything wrong with your pump - I'm just giving the options and my own opinion.

I could recommend my own setup but that would be complete overkill for most on here.

[CleanClear]

The ideal type of pump for boosting an ro is a multistage centrifugal pump, a peripheral pump or a rotary vane pump.

it doesn't matter what gets the water to the pump. You're just making that up sounding unessecarily complicated. Bottom line is, it wouldn;t matter if it was a piston pump as long as the water gets there.

You need to match the flow to the pressure you want the system to run at, bearing in mind the pump must be rated for continuous operation.

Then it all comes down to the budget you assign for the pump.

To be honest for a single 4040 I'd recommend a procon rotary vane pump. They are designed to operate up to around 250psi with a fairly constant flow of approx 800 litres per hour so if you run at 60% waste that equates to 480 litres waste to 320 litres of pure per hour. Setup will cost about £350 but for a single 4040 it's probably the best setup.

 You managed to narrow that pump and price down straight way with out finding out anyones flow, like you said ..you need to find out the flow, but you went right ahead with out finding out the flow.

By the way optimum operating pressure for most tap water membranes is around 200psi

Go to bed mate, you're drunk.

[CleanClear]

All depends on how much water you want to produce. I'm certainly not saying there's anything wrong with your pump - I'm just giving the options and my own opinion.

I could recommend my own setup but that would be complete overkill for most on here.

Do it. Everything is an option.

[alanwilson]

4x4040 espa 3 fed by a lowara 25stage stainless steel vertical multistage pump. Large diameter pre filters, 100litre pre-treatment buffer tank and 2 x 62 litre di vessels.
2x10,000litre storage tanks

[alanwilson]

Just to add regarding your point about not finding out his flow rate from tap - it's highly unlikely anyone is getting less than 13 litres per minute from their tap. In any case, all anyone needs to do is measure it and they will know for themself.

Besides which, I hope you have a buffer tank before your pump as it draws more than 12 lpm which you obviously know is there legal max without a buffer. But you knew that anyway.

[alanwilson]

As for the optimum pressure for operating an ro- take a look at the data sheets.

Max pressure for an hf5 is somewhere around 600psi. Test pressure is exactly that - test pressure, espa3 measured at 150psi, as are the majority of tap water membranes.

But you knew that anyway

[alanwilson]

And if you'd care to look at the hf5 specification pdf you'll see it starts with 

"With operating pressures as low as 80psi"

As low as - that's not its maximum.

But you knew that anyway.

[CleanClear]

For years everyone was sold gold connectors for their hi fi leads, produced better audio. Gold plated HDMI leads, better quality picture. No one argued with the experts.

Same thing is happening with these booster pumps. All anyone needs is a Jet pump. Makes no sense to spend a couple of hundred quid extra to have it cut in and out. But if people want to throw their money away thats up to them i suppose.

[robert mitchell]

For years everyone was sold gold connectors for their hi fi leads, produced better audio. Gold plated HDMI leads, better quality picture. No one argued with the experts.

Same thing is happening with these booster pumps. All anyone needs is a Jet pump. Makes no sense to spend a couple of hundred quid extra to have it cut in and out. But if people want to throw their money away thats up to them i suppose.

I had a jet one on 4021 and it was crap , pressure too low and flow too high ......... i now have a rotary vane pump from grippatank , 400lph so matched to my system and pressure of just over 100psi , tds out has dropped from 19 to 6 and fill speed has improved . It does not cut in and out .

WTF has hi fi leads got to do with it?

[CleanClear]

For years everyone was sold gold connectors for their hi fi leads, produced better audio. Gold plated HDMI leads, better quality picture. No one argued with the experts.

Same thing is happening with these booster pumps. All anyone needs is a Jet pump. Makes no sense to spend a couple of hundred quid extra to have it cut in and out. But if people want to throw their money away thats up to them i suppose.

I had a jet one on 4021 and it was crap , pressure too low and flow too high ......... i now have a rotary vane pump from grippatank , 400lph so matched to my system and pressure of just over 100psi , tds out has dropped from 19 to 6 and fill speed has improved . It does not cut in and out .

WTF has hi fi leads got to do with it?

I'm just making the point that everyone tells you what the best to get and you (not you personally) just get it without question. You've obviously had the wrong Jet pump. You need something with at least about 45M head.

[robert mitchell]

mine was 46m head

[CleanClear]

mine was 46m head

Thats interesting. But you say it was putting to much water through ? I'd love to know what pump that was. Thats pretty unlucky. Its now cost you about £300 for the new one ? I paid £70 for mine never had a problem.

[ascjim]

I have just got one of these  http://gardinerpolesystems.co.uk/all-products/pure-water-systems/water-treatment/booster-pumps/switched-booster-pump-kit-240v-for-prf-ro-systems.html although i haven't got it running yet as i'm waiting for some fittings to arrive. Also depends on what membrane you are using hf5 needs about 80psi to run at its most efficient but a hf4 needs about 100 psi the above booster pump is for an hf5 as its max pressure is about 85psi. You would plumb it in after the mains tap and before your sediment filters and membrane.

I brought one of theses to. It's amazing, I couldn't believe how well it worked.

[CleanClear]

I have just got one of these  http://gardinerpolesystems.co.uk/all-products/pure-water-systems/water-treatment/booster-pumps/switched-booster-pump-kit-240v-for-prf-ro-systems.html although i haven't got it running yet as i'm waiting for some fittings to arrive. Also depends on what membrane you are using hf5 needs about 80psi to run at its most efficient but a hf4 needs about 100 psi the above booster pump is for an hf5 as its max pressure is about 85psi. You would plumb it in after the mains tap and before your sediment filters and membrane.

I brought one of theses to. It's amazing, I couldn't believe how well it worked.

Sounds really great James. Did you put it together yourself or did you pay the £85 to have it put together for you ? And when you say, worked well . Can you expand on that anymore ? I mean does the water come out really good ?