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Fieldsy

  • Posts: 615
@Spruce
« on: August 21, 2016, 05:19:00 pm »
Hi m8,

Could you give me some info on post number 10
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=203979.0
Just wondered if you could clarify the difference between the wrap and block and their purpose regarding reducing tds if any or merely lasting longer ( blocks)

cheers Fieldsy
If Carlsberg made window cleaners....I'd be one of them....lol

Spruce

  • Posts: 8643
Re: @Spruce
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2016, 06:08:31 pm »
Hi m8,

Could you give me some info on post number 10
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=203979.0
Just wondered if you could clarify the difference between the wrap and block and their purpose regarding reducing tds if any or merely lasting longer ( blocks)

cheers Fieldsy

Hi Fieldsy,

I honestly don't know the answer.

The first time I heard the carbon filter being called a carbon wrap filter was your post and the link.

I have always known it as a carbon block or just carbon filter.  Most other cleaners also call it a carbon or carbon block prefilter. If I look at the pictures, both filters look exactly the same.

What interests me though is the length of their service life. I can vouch for the Fiberdyne carbon block filter as I have used it in my 4040 system for 4 years and the membrane is working just as well as it did when I first put it in. I don't have a chlorine test kit so I can test my carbon block filters to see if they are working or not. TBH I couldn't be bothered. Its far to complicated removing water pipes to get a test sample. I just change them when the manufacturer tells me to.

What I don't like is the use of "the reduction of chlorine" rather than removal. Being cynical, I see that as a get out clause by the manufacturers. What does chlorine reduction mean? How much is left? etc.

The very first carbon prefilter I used was a 1 micron unit with was good for 150,000+  liters if my memory serves me and was £38.00 + VAT. But it blocked up within a few months and had to be discarded.

Replacing prefilters will do very little for the reduction of your tap water tds. In fact, it will probably be exactly the same. All the carbon block does is remove chlorine from the water as chlorine and r/o membranes aren't good bedfellows. Chlorine also dissipates. We had to dose our swimming pool in South Africa every evening to sanitise the water.  Once the morning sun rose it didn't last long before it was gone, perhaps less than a couple of hours.

Doug put up a post a while back about chlorine. He said that the further you get from the dosing point the weaker the concentration of chlorine. So it could be that those Fiberdyne filters will last me twice as long.
I would imagine the manufacturers of these things will spec the filter as the highest chlorine content your water could have to be safe for drinking. So if I follow the manufacturers instructions I feel I'm ok.

However, as SeanK posts, it is also a balance between spending lots on filters to save a little on replacement membranes. He gets away with replacing his every 6 months.

Edited:

The Spectrum prefilter you linked to is a much better bet than what you are using IMHO.
http://waterfilters.sterner.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=74_316_229&product_id=645

Using that will work out similar cost wise to the fiberdyne I'm currently using, although I would have the convenience of not changing it as often. But I would still have to disconnect the prefilters and drain the system down to change the sediment prefilter.

 
Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)

Fieldsy

  • Posts: 615
Re: @Spruce
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2016, 06:21:35 pm »
Hi Spruce,

Thanks for being honest m8. Phil advised me at vyair that he was providing carbon wrap with the system, so I automatically did a search for carbon wrap and thats when the sterner site came up, showing carbon wrap and carbon block. When you saw my post I assumed you knew that carbon block were better than carbon wrap ( I didn't have a clue...lol)..........as I'd never heard of carbon block....lol. Well it seems its just a matter of preference and agree with you that the "block" filters with their higher reduction rate should last longer than the cheaper "wrap" versions. Think I'll opt for the block version next time as you rightly say they should last a lot longer....hence the price. We have 3 in sequence before the pump and membrane.

So the fiberdyne are carbon block ?
Given the fact that one fiberdyne can replace 2 x 20" filters..........would that mean I could replace my 3 prefilters with two of the fiberdyne and leave the last housing empty ?

Cheers Fieldsy
If Carlsberg made window cleaners....I'd be one of them....lol

Spruce

  • Posts: 8643
Re: @Spruce
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2016, 07:04:26 pm »
Hi Spruce,

Thanks for being honest m8. Phil advised me at vyair that he was providing carbon wrap with the system, so I automatically did a search for carbon wrap and thats when the sterner site came up, showing carbon wrap and carbon block. When you saw my post I assumed you knew that carbon block were better than carbon wrap ( I didn't have a clue...lol)..........as I'd never heard of carbon block....lol. Well it seems its just a matter of preference and agree with you that the "block" filters with their higher reduction rate should last longer than the cheaper "wrap" versions. Think I'll opt for the block version next time as you rightly say they should last a lot longer....hence the price. We have 3 in sequence before the pump and membrane.

So the fiberdyne are carbon block ?
Given the fact that one fiberdyne can replace 2 x 20" filters..........would that mean I could replace my 3 prefilters with two of the fiberdyne and leave the last housing empty ?

Cheers Fieldsy

If your water is free of sediment then you would put in a single fiberdyne carbon block and leave the other two empty.

If your sediment filter comes out red and slimy like ours does, then its best for the first filter to be a sediment and the second the fiberdyne. Leave the third housing empty.

-
Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)

Spruce

  • Posts: 8643
Re: @Spruce
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2016, 07:18:35 pm »
Just because a supplier tells you fantastic things about how good the filter is, doesn't mean that it is.

Here's a 10" carbon block prefilter;
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-x-Carbon-Water-Filter-Cartridges-fits-all-10-Housings-for-RO-Reverse-Osmosis-/121433119592?hash=item1c45fa5b68:g:kV4AAOSwRLZT8dBH

In the description this supplier says "Highest Quality Guaranteed."

Again its referred to as a "high quality  activated carbon block."

However, the specs say that its good for 7000 liters or 6 months in an average household environment.

Price is good for two items but totally useless for window cleaning.

So just because they call it a carbon block it doesn't mean anything. In fact a 10" GAC filter has longer service life at 10000 liters.

-
Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)

Fieldsy

  • Posts: 615
Re: @Spruce
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2016, 07:58:55 pm »
Thanks m8, I can't comment on a sediment filter as this was our first 4040 system and only ever had 3 carbon wrap filters (all the same ) in the housings, so I would be guessing about how many fiberdynes to fit.

In future I will look at the specs rather than the marketing spiel.....lol
If Carlsberg made window cleaners....I'd be one of them....lol

Don Kee

  • Posts: 4906
Re: @Spruce
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2016, 09:17:38 pm »
Wraps are designed to just reduce chlorine content, not get rid of it altogether; so are more for drinking water hence being cheaper
A carbon block should near on get rid of 100% of chlorine aslong as it actually is a carbon block

I'd go for a block (make sure it is a block as spruce suggests, theres a lot of sales spiel) as chlorine can damage your membrane

As spruce says, i'd go for a sediment filter and then carbon block. Alot say that there carbon will do all but I'd still have a sediment filter just incase (if anything it should increase the life of your carbon block as its not having to do as much in theory)


Fieldsy

  • Posts: 615
Re: @Spruce
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2016, 09:25:37 pm »
Thanks for that update and info....very helpful. So which sediment filter would you recommend prior to the fiberdyne.
Thanks again

This for example ;

http://gardinerpolesystems.co.uk/all-products/pure-water-systems/water-treatment/sediment-carbon-filters/20-sediment-pre-filter.html
If Carlsberg made window cleaners....I'd be one of them....lol

Spruce

  • Posts: 8643
Re: @Spruce
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2016, 08:44:52 pm »
Thanks for that update and info....very helpful. So which sediment filter would you recommend prior to the fiberdyne.
Thanks again

This for example ;

http://gardinerpolesystems.co.uk/all-products/pure-water-systems/water-treatment/sediment-carbon-filters/20-sediment-pre-filter.html

Sorry, I missed this.

Its the very same sediment filter I use.

-
Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)

Fieldsy

  • Posts: 615
Re: @Spruce
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2016, 10:58:22 am »
No worries m8, thanks for the reply, so one sediment filter and one carbon block ( last chamber empty) all from gardiners :)
If Carlsberg made window cleaners....I'd be one of them....lol