[Phil J]

Hey lads,
Looking to upgrade to a 40/40 any ideas on the best housing, membrane combination. I'm a little confused as the prices vary significantly any input would be appreciated. Thanks, Phil.

[Spruce]

Hey lads,
Looking to upgrade to a 40/40 any ideas on the best housing, membrane combination. I'm a little confused as the prices vary significantly any input would be appreciated. Thanks, Phil.

IMHO - the champ housing is best but its more expensive. Its 'plastic'.

Vyair do a cheaper housing in either 'plastic' or stainless steel. I personally don't like the method they use to hold the endcaps in place - a V profile exhaust type clamp but it works.

Membranes come in 2 types for window cleaning. HF4 for high pressure water supply. HF5 for lower water pressure supply.

Look on Gardiners website for details of tap water pressure each membrane is best suited to.

HF5 membranes are more expensive but if that's the suitable membrane then so be it.

I prefer 20" prefilter housings but many are sold with 10". I use Fiberdyne carbon block as they last longer because they remove the chlorine from more water than standard filters do. But they are more expensive.

Questions to ask yourself.

 What is my tap water pressure? How much water do I get out of my tap per minute?

Other thoughts. Not knowing your current system you will need to process water into a storage tank or directly into your vehicle tank. Either way you will need a control to switch the water off to the r/o when the tank is full as 4040s produce water faster than you have ever experienced with any other r/o. (PF sell a solenoid valve and float switch which will do this.)

If you do a search on the forum you will find info under booster pumps as there have been a number of discussions recently using them with 4040 r/o's.

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[Phil J]

Hey Spruce,
Thanks so much for your very informative reply! Which membrane would you recommend? Axeon or a generic brand, I don't mind paying for quality, just want to make the right choice.
Thanks again, Phil.

[alanwilson]

We recently changed our membranes to hydranautics espa3 from hf5's. Higher flow and better output tds. Ours is a triple 4040 pumped at 160psi

[Phil J]

Thanks Alan...

[Spruce]

Our water pressure is 50psi and I've gone the HF5 route.

I don't have a booster pump. Our water is around 90 - 125 at the tap and reject water is 2ppm. At a 50/50 ratio pure to waste we get 2 litres of pure per minute which is ample for us.

Booster pump considerations;

It was always recommended that the Clarke CBM240E was the best booster pump for a 4040 if you needed one. The issue is that this booster pump will pump up to pressures of 112psi which are over the recommendations of an HF5 membrane. So if you were using this booster pump then you would have to go the an HF4 membrane route.

Now I see Gardiners do an electronic booster pump with a max pressure of 85 psi so that would be in the HF5 membrane range.


The reason why I raised the booster pump considerations is because of my own concerns. Whilst we have enough water pressure to run a 4040 this may not be so in the future. We are at the end of a single pipe in a cul de sac and our water pressure is less than the neighbours behind us on the main water ring. The council have given planning permission for 150 new homes on our estate. That could change things.

What membrane?

Always go for the quality one. That was advice that RoMan gave me 10 years ago. The cheaper chinese copies do not perform as well. Product made in the USA is the best although these days you can never be sure where a product originates. The Americans do have high standards with regard to membrane manufacture.

A cheap membrane may save you a bit initially, but over time you will spend more than you save on resin polishing off the remaining tds.

My advice is to always buy membranes from a quality wfp supplier, such as Gardiners, Daqua, etc. They sell the best available.

The last place I would buy from is Ebay, and that includes prefilters.

I think Alan Wilson is in a different league with regard to window cleaning. 

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[Phil J]

Thanks again Spruce!
I'm thinking champ housing and axeon membrane.
BTW how do I find out my water pressure?

[Spruce]

Thanks again Spruce!
I'm thinking champ housing and axeon membrane.
BTW how do I find out my water pressure?

Buy a water pressure testing gauge.

They screw to the outside tap.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WATER-PRESSURE-TESTING-KIT-GAUGE-HOSE-SET-3-4-BSP-TAP-THREAD-200MM-LENGTH-TYPE-/221782585881?hash=item33a345b219:g:~rcAAOSwKPNTx7ah

I had a pressure gauge on my previous r/o and have fitted this one with pressure gauges.

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[Fieldsy]

We got our 4040 from vyair, and its worked a treat. We have the stainless steel housing, and it was originally supplied with 3 carbon wrap filters and a H5 low pressure membrane. Our  mains tds is high in  Essex area, around the 350-370ppm. Phil supplied us with a small booster pump which only runs for 4 hours max. After filters and membrane, the tds is down to 10ppm before the resin. Just changed the carbon wraps for these :
http://waterfilters.sterner.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=74_315_227&product_id=633  Just be careful of pricing as you can see we got these for approx £16 each............but I also found them for £46 EACH !!!!!

https://www.waterfiltershop.co.uk/spectrum-scw-5-20-870-carbon-wrap-filter-5-micron.html

This system has been running now for nearly two years and ( touch wood ) had no major probs. Haven't tried the carbon block filters as I don't know enough about them. I'm assuming they are a higher quality/efficiency than the carbon wrap ?.... Perhaps Spruce can answer this ?

This is my setup, have a look at post number 14 
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=193427.0

Spruce also helped me set up a float cut off for the pump. I'll post up a pic of the small booster pump. It works a treat

Cheers Fieldsy

[Spruce]

We got our 4040 from vyair, and its worked a treat. We have the stainless steel housing, and it was originally supplied with 3 carbon wrap filters and a H5 low pressure membrane. Our  mains tds is high in  Essex area, around the 350-370ppm. Phil supplied us with a small booster pump which only runs for 4 hours max. After filters and membrane, the tds is down to 10ppm before the resin. Just changed the carbon wraps for these :
http://waterfilters.sterner.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=74_315_227&product_id=633  Just be careful of pricing as you can see we got these for approx £16 each............but I also found them for £46 EACH !!!!!

https://www.waterfiltershop.co.uk/spectrum-scw-5-20-870-carbon-wrap-filter-5-micron.html

This system has been running now for nearly two years and ( touch wood ) had no major probs. Haven't tried the carbon block filters as I don't know enough about them. I'm assuming they are a higher quality/efficiency than the carbon wrap ?.... Perhaps Spruce can answer this ?

This is my setup, have a look at post number 14 
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=193427.0

Spruce also helped me set up a float cut off for the pump. I'll post up a pic of the small booster pump. It works a treat

Cheers Fieldsy

Hi Fieldsy,

Can I suggest that you have a look at your carbon block filters again.

Spectrum specs
Chlorine Reduction    19,000  liters. (I found the spec on another site and confirmed the figure is in liters.)
Flow lpm    3.8lpm (I think this is a misprint as this is too low.)
Length    20"
Price            £16.00 including VAT but excluding delivery.

Fiberdyn specs from Gardiners
Chlorine Reduction    75,700 litres
Flow lpm    7.6lpm
Length    20"
Micron Rating    5
Price           £28.80 including VAT but excluding delivery. (Order 2 plus a couple of sediment filters and delivery is free.)

The chlorine reduction specs are a total of all the water your r/o uses, so both waste and pure. We use approx 13500 liters of pure per month, so we use approx 27,000 liters a month with a pure to waste ratio set at about 1 to 1.

If we used your Spectrum filters we would have to replace them every 3 weeks. We replace our Fiberdyne units approx every 3 months.
Over a year the Spectrum would cost us £277.00 (17 filters at £16 each.)  The Fiberdyne would cost us £115.00 using the same scenario (4 filters at £28.80 each.)

So with the Fiberdyne from Gardiners you are getting 3.98 times the chlorine reduction at 1.8 times the price of the Spectrum carbon block. The Fiberdyne is better value for money IMHO. 

If your water isn't sediment laden like ours is, you can save a bit more and do away with the sediment filter. This means that you will only need 1 prefilter. We sometimes have to replace the sediment filter every month, hence why we continue to use a sediment prefilter as they save the c/b which is much more expensive.)

I have a water meter on the r/o so I know when I need to replace c/b filters. That's the only reason why its there.

Do you have an overflow provision on your r/o Fieldsy? I included one on my IBC tank just in case the r/o didn't switch off when the tank is full. Its a length of 1/2" hose with a connector above the usual water line. I was messing on about a year ago and didn't realise I had disturbed the float switch. The overflow to the drain outside saved the garage floor and the wall getting soaked with water.

You've reminded me; I need a spanner for removing my prefilter bowls but when I order stuff I always forget. Thanks.

Spruce
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[Fieldsy]

Hi Spruce,

To be honest I only replaced with  3 x carbon wrap filters as the system originally came with carbon wrap. I'm assuming the ones from Gardiners are carbon block ?

I fully understand what you are saying as its obviously more economically viable to purchase the gardiners filters. My bad for not looking far enough and asking on here first.   

We have 3 pre-filters, so I'm assuming your choice would be a far better option.

No, I don't have an overflow..................I rely on my little old ball cock stopping....lol

Glad I reminded you about the spanner 

Any other info appreciated m8,

cheers Paul

Besides all of the above, is it the difference between carbon wrap and carbon block that would make the difference ?

Answering my own question here, I think its the difference between the two types of filter as the spectrum carbon block 20" has 100,000 litres reduction.

http://waterfilters.sterner.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=74_316_229&product_id=645


Sorry m8, another question. If we were to use the carbon block filters..........do they reduce the TDS  into the membrane any more than the carbon wrap...........or are they merely a more economical way of filter usage ?..i.e they last longer ( but are no better in reducing tds)