[stu_thomson]

Have had a letter today from a company called National Business Register PLC which says and I quote

We would advise we hold a registration for the above named business name and your use of a similar/same name in the same nature of business and market area would appear to be "passing off"
Fees paid to us by registered businesses are designed to protect a trading name against "passing off" and also enable compliance with the business names act 1985.
All legal costs necessary in protecting a name are borne with a registry and if necessary litigation could be entered against you with regard to your use of this name.
In these circumstances your written confirmation that you will cease to use this name forthwith will satisfy this matter.
If however you wish to contest our claim we would suggest you contact your solicitors forthwith as if no reply is received from you within 14 days we shall proceed accordingly. END....


The company they are referring to with the same trading name as me is some 100 miles + away from me.
In todays culture my 1st thought is SCAM but would like to know whether any of you guys have recieved such a letter or whether any of you know the legal side to this.
I have been trading since 1991 and obviously dont want to change names. I have never paid to register my company name.

regards
stu

[Phil Marlor]

If they are a Ltd company then they may have a claim , I doubt this is the case and they are just trying it on.

Find out if they are Ltd!

Phil

[craigp]

lot of rubbish, let them take you to court, they won't.

you dont need to register you name with anyone, (not anymore)

as long as you can prove you been using that name since 1991 your fine.

in fact in court you end up better off cus when they lose you hit them to reconpence your costs and time off work etc.

ps. they will have to prove you have intentionaly passed your self off, and imatated, and so knew of the buisness to which they refer when you started 15 years ago,

be laughed out of court.

[stu_thomson]

this is there web site

http://www.start.biz/home.htm

[craigp]

Honestly, people are afraid of the law wrongly, go to court they'll listen to you and conclude what is right that you've meant no intention of what they suggest,  they dont just have to prove wrong doing but INTENTION of wrong doing. further more they would not even stop you using that name let alone penaties, since the other company operates so far away.

dont even pay for a soliciter, you dont need one.

[craigp]

stu,

have they had the name registered since before you started? is it the other party sole trader? are they national company?

i could see possible problem if yes to questions 1 and 3

even then you been using it for that long, that will be in your favour.

[stu_thomson]

The company they refer to are a ltd company and have been
 trading since 1983 it says.
I dont know whether they have complained or not but obviously neither of us are interfering with each others business.

stu

[Jason Hedges]

Stu,

Dont mess with them, change your business name and be quick about it!

Only joking mate, as far as I know you would only have a problem if it was a registered company and offeing the same business type to yours. If not can't see you having a problem.

Good luck anyway.

Kind regards,
Jason.

[Spot On cleaning]

AS Craig has said, i wouldn't worry about it. When i started in 2002 i went to see a business councillor who did mention about brand names etc, and i never took no notice.

My mrs came up with what i thought was a novel name "Spot On Cleaning" After trading for a few months, i have seen Spot on this, Spot on that, and i think she subconsciously saw it somewhere before.

It seems to me that this company is going around looking for work... i.e. looking at businesses with the same name and trying to get something out of them.

Let them take you to court, i bet they won't as the courts are usually on the side of the smaller trader with only a few exceptions... i.e. the plumber who wanted to trade as virgin plumbers because of his surname. I believe mr B legally put a stop to this.

Dave

[stu_thomson]

as far as I know you would only have a problem if it was a registered company and offeing the same business type to yours

Jason

They are a registered company and we do the same work!

stu

[Spot On cleaning]

Stu

Is there a way you can add another word to your business name thus slightly altering the name such as A1 Apollo cleaners or Appollo cleaners south west etc.

This way your old customers will know its you and i think this company could not touch you then. Isnt this what the chem dry franchisees do that break away from the company such as A1 or south west and the chem dry name is also included

Dave

[Jason Hedges]

Hi Stu,

The letter sounds to me like they mean business.  I'm not registered either so am awaiting the same call (or letter).

Would be worth a phone call to your solicitor if you have one (or a local reputable one) to see how you stand. They're not as expensive as you might think (after just coming through a seperation!).

Good luck buddy,

Kind regards,
Jason.

[craigp]

http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/1d4e4bac9a56021eedac31bd28ba886d/compdetails

search 01197218 and for second one search: 05035967

heres 2  cleaning companies using apollo, on search (companies house goverment register of limited companies)

so theres at least another one.

[steve cardy]

Hi,
I dont know where they get their information from but they have my buisness down as a washer and dry cleaner of textiles and FURS!!!!

[Mr Dvae]

Had this happen to me a few yrs ago, so i telephoned them after taking legal advice, told them yes my name isn't registered, but i had been trading for many years they had only recently registered this similar name at companies house.
lets go to court i said, you have the registered name however as i have used it for many more years which you should have checked befor you registered this name it is I who will be awarded costs and ownership of this name in court.

They backed down.


regards

Dave

[craigp]

the 2 i found are called:

'apollo cleaning (kent) ltd' 

'apollo cleaning services ltd'

if i've got this right, being ltd as dave said will not give you anymore rights, the privite company thats contacted you are simply a company that makes its own register, and any of us can use them the idea is to protect your company name if a company pops up using your name, in your area, then this company will take legal action for you, the cost of which will be covered in your membership fee. (i think around £150 a year)

being 'limited registered company' is irrelevent, though it will prove how long they been using the name.

its who was trading first, what areas covered, therefore them being a national company, if they are? will have a bearing, i think they would also have to prove you have caused problems to effect in some way there trading.

theres lots of cleaning apollos, 2 are ltd, then theres the ones we dont know about.

[scott.]

I had a similar incident, not so long ago, with another business I was running...but I backed down

I had an online store called "adult toys r us ".......had a call from "toys r us "  legal team ...and decided to listen.

[Dennis]

I'm no solicitor but can they prove these three things against you?

To bring an action for passing off, you need to show (i) that you have goodwill in the reputation of your goods and services; (ii) that your opponent has made a misrepresentation in the course of trade; and (iii) that your business has suffered consequential damage.

These three elements are usually demonstrated by (amongst other things) presenting survey evidence to the Court. Collecting, processing and presenting survey evidence is very time consuming and, consequently, passing off actions are generally more costly to litigate than trade mark infringement actions.

Read http://www.ipit-update.com/passingoff.htm

"It can be very difficult and expensive to prove passing off."

I also assume neither of you work in each other's areas so how can you "pass off" your business as theirs' over here in Norfolk?

This all smacks to me as National Business Register Plc having to justify their probable high fees by taking some action on behalf of the other Apollo!

This sort of thing does play on your mind, I know from bitter experience and a £250 +vat solicitor's bill!
Get a free half hour consultation from a solicitor to put your mind at rest.

http://www.lawsociety.org.uk/choosingandusing/helpyourbusiness/foryourbusiness.law

My learned opinion is tell them politely to get lost. 

[stu_thomson]

Thanks for your input guys, all very helpful, have passed letter to my accountant and will ring him after the weekend to his thoughts.
 May also contact FSB of which Im a member.
I think as someone said, that the registration company has to justifie its fees, there is no way that Im taking any work away from them due to the distance factor and Im not going to back down without a fight on this one.

regards
stu

[therapist]

If you're a member of the FSB you have access to FREE legal advice.

rob m