[AuRavelling79]

You want a serious statistical answer?

A quick check back shows that we cleaned around 800 houses last month.  Two complaints.  One where I missed the entire front of a house (what a pro!) and some spotting on one panel of a conservatory.

We don't use vision but all of our guys know how to clean windows.  I'm not sure vision would have helped on problem number one anyway.

I suspect that the main benefit of Vision must be the confidence it gives to people who use it.  That's not knocking it at all; it's an important side-effect of using it and is very real.  That makes it worth the money to the people who believe in it.

Vin

Just like Homoeopathy?

[SeanK]

I see the Vision users in Australia have been getting the same problems as Dazmond when overdosing the mixture.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dvEmroCHXs

[Perfect Windows]

I suspect that the main benefit of Vision must be the confidence it gives to people who use it.  That's not knocking it at all; it's an important side-effect of using it and is very real.  That makes it worth the money to the people who believe in it.

Vin

Just like Homoeopathy?

Indeed.  It's strange that the placebo effect is taken so lightly.  It's very real and extremely effective and should never be underestimated or mocked.  If it works for you, it's OK, in my opinion.

Vin

[Rich Wilts]

You want a serious statistical answer?

A quick check back shows that we cleaned around 800 houses last month.  Two complaints.  One where I missed the entire front of a house (what a pro!) and some spotting on one panel of a conservatory.

We don't use vision but all of our guys know how to clean windows.  I'm not sure vision would have helped on problem number one anyway.

I suspect that the main benefit of Vision must be the confidence it gives to people who use it.  That's not knocking it at all; it's an important side-effect of using it and is very real.  That makes it worth the money to the people who believe in it.

Vin

Just like Homoeopathy?

Is that something that makes gays believe they're straight in light off evidence to the contrary

[SeanK]

I suspect that the main benefit of Vision must be the confidence it gives to people who use it.  That's not knocking it at all; it's an important side-effect of using it and is very real.  That makes it worth the money to the people who believe in it.

Vin

Just like Homoeopathy?

Indeed.  It's strange that the placebo effect is taken so lightly.  It's very real and extremely effective and should never be underestimated or mocked.  If it works for you, it's OK, in my opinion.

Vin

I think most sensible thinkers came to this conclusion from the start, but its still hard trying to get your head round
somebody seeing something that really isn't there.
I can understand newbies and inexperienced shiners falling for this but successful guys with years of experience well
if I'm honest I do think there has to be a slight bit of stupidity involved and I don't make myself out to be anything special
in the IQ department when I say this.( very hard not to be insulting on this topic )
I mean when your doing a job day in day out you should at least be learning how and what causes what.
I'm not sure if I'm O.K. with somebody selling a placebo even if it does help.

[Rich Wilts]

The trick would be to send them off with a tank of water and no Vision in it, but believing it's been added. They'd come back spouting what wonderful stuff Vision is.

[Dave Willis]

I'm happy using Froff 
The really funny thing is the bloke who thinks he's 30% faster!
Brilliant, to be 30% faster something has to change physically like less movement of the pole or completely omitting an action you previously used to do - what
in this job you can't see what's happening during the clean so you can't see the dirt lifting off. The water doesn't  go any quicker, your arms don't go any faster
If that claim on their website came from their own mouths then they'd be obliged to prove it.
GG4 works for me, I know it's in the water because I can see the bubbles. I still believe in my case its 80% placebo though. No additive at those dilutions will cover for poor technique or miraculously dissolve dirt but it does in your head.

Would I buy Vision? Maybe but I keep thinking back to the great Boshravie/Hasti con of flogging diluted G101 as Magica One Go and can't bring myself to do it.
These guys were all chatting on forums a couple of years back including the Australian  one and all using the same branded product - probably why they joined forces so I cant imagine Vision is much more advanced than what they had back then. 

If it works for you then buy it
I had a Bowen massage once - total joke for me - works for some people though.

[SeanK]

I'm happy using Froff 
The really funny thing is the bloke who thinks he's 30% faster!
Brilliant, to be 30% faster something has to change physically like less movement of the pole or completely omitting an action you previously used to do - what
in this job you can't see what's happening during the clean so you can't see the dirt lifting off. The water doesn't  go any quicker, your arms don't go any faster
If that claim on their website came from their own mouths then they'd be obliged to prove it.
GG4 works for me, I know it's in the water because I can see the bubbles. I still believe in my case its 80% placebo though. No additive at those dilutions will cover for poor technique or miraculously dissolve dirt but it does in your head.

Would I buy Vision? Maybe but I keep thinking back to the great Boshravie/Hasti con of flogging diluted G101 as Magica One Go and can't bring myself to do it.
These guys were all chatting on forums a couple of years back including the Australian  one and all using the same branded product - probably why they joined forces so I cant imagine Vision is much more advanced than what they had back then. 

Dave I find your replies more confusing than most on this subject, you keep slagging Vision but cant make your mind up
if you need it or not.
You experiment with additives and still cant come to a conclusion if they work or not.
I bought a bottle of Vision because I have a lot of trouble with problem openers and a few had stated that Vision might solve it, as I had no previous experience which could prove or disprove this advice I had to try it.
I had no need for any of the other things it claimed to do and even if it did put an extra shine on the frames and glass which it
doesn't I'm more than happy with the finish as it is using pure alone.
But to be honest if it had solved my opener problem I wouldn't care if its a rip off from another product or not as it would have
saved me a lot of time and money.

[Perfect Windows]

I think most sensible thinkers came to this conclusion from the start, but its still hard trying to get your head round
somebody seeing something that really isn't there.
I can understand newbies and inexperienced shiners falling for this but successful guys with years of experience well
if I'm honest I do think there has to be a slight bit of stupidity involved and I don't make myself out to be anything special
in the IQ department when I say this.( very hard not to be insulting on this topic )
I mean when your doing a job day in day out you should at least be learning how and what causes what.
I'm not sure if I'm O.K. with somebody selling a placebo even if it does help.

Well, I'd not consider myself daft but when I changed from a Gardiners brush to a Vikan brick, I preferred the new brush
Then I changed back to a Gardiners brush and I preferred it to the Vikan
Then I changed to a different Gardiners brush and preferred it
Then I changed to a radius sill brush and preferred it
I've recently moved to a Supreme brush and I prefer it.

Sometimes just changing things improves your outlook.  There's no question of IQ being involved, IMO.  And again, if it works for you, do it.

Vin

[Dave Willis]

I'm happy using Froff 
The really funny thing is the bloke who thinks he's 30% faster!
Brilliant, to be 30% faster something has to change physically like less movement of the pole or completely omitting an action you previously used to do - what
in this job you can't see what's happening during the clean so you can't see the dirt lifting off. The water doesn't  go any quicker, your arms don't go any faster
If that claim on their website came from their own mouths then they'd be obliged to prove it.
GG4 works for me, I know it's in the water because I can see the bubbles. I still believe in my case its 80% placebo though. No additive at those dilutions will cover for poor technique or miraculously dissolve dirt but it does in your head.

Would I buy Vision? Maybe but I keep thinking back to the great Boshravie/Hasti con of flogging diluted G101 as Magica One Go and can't bring myself to do it.
These guys were all chatting on forums a couple of years back including the Australian  one and all using the same branded product - probably why they joined forces so I cant imagine Vision is much more advanced than what they had back then. 

Dave I find your replies more confusing than most on this subject, you keep slagging Vision but cant make your mind up
if you need it or not.
You experiment with additives and still cant come to a conclusion if they work or not.
I bought a bottle of Vision because I have a lot of trouble with problem openers and a few had stated that Vision might solve it, as I had no previous experience which could prove or disprove this advice I had to try it.
I had no need for any of the other things it claimed to do and even if it did put an extra shine on the frames and glass which it
doesn't I'm more than happy with the finish as it is using pure alone.
But to be honest if it had solved my opener problem I wouldn't care if its a rip off from another product or not as it would have
saved me a lot of time and money.

I probably wrote too much. Idon't slag the product off exacty - I haven't used it.
I am dubious of it's make up and it's origins and any actual benefit of any additive including my own. That's all really.

[SeanK]

Sorry Dave, questioning would have been a better word than slagging.

[SeanK]

I think most sensible thinkers came to this conclusion from the start, but its still hard trying to get your head round
somebody seeing something that really isn't there.
I can understand newbies and inexperienced shiners falling for this but successful guys with years of experience well
if I'm honest I do think there has to be a slight bit of stupidity involved and I don't make myself out to be anything special
in the IQ department when I say this.( very hard not to be insulting on this topic )
I mean when your doing a job day in day out you should at least be learning how and what causes what.
I'm not sure if I'm O.K. with somebody selling a placebo even if it does help.

Well, I'd not consider myself daft but when I changed from a Gardiners brush to a Vikan brick, I preferred the new brush
Then I changed back to a Gardiners brush and I preferred it to the Vikan
Then I changed to a different Gardiners brush and preferred it
Then I changed to a radius sill brush and preferred it
I've recently moved to a Supreme brush and I prefer it.

Sometimes just changing things improves your outlook.  There's no question of IQ being involved, IMO.  And again, if it works for you, do it.

Vin

That would explain a few things, I get what your saying.

[slap bash]

Vision is a good product. I cannot understand how the chaps that make it are so shy to come forward and state what there  product does.  Instead there is always a ongoing  debate on what it does and what to expect of it and the results it will deliver. This fact will destroy a very good product and the longer this debate goes on the more opportunity will be lost to be successful.  I feel the manufacture either does not know what it actually does or they are afraid we will find out what it is. The marketing falls short and will destroy a good product.

[paulben]

tried a different mix on my windows this morning think I have almost cracked it will post later in week if mix is right may just need a little tweaking so much slip its unbelievable

[Jonny 87]

Vision is a good product. I cannot understand how the chaps that make it are so shy to come forward and state what there  product does.  Instead there is always a ongoing  debate on what it does and what to expect of it and the results it will deliver. This fact will destroy a very good product and the longer this debate goes on the more opportunity will be lost to be successful.  I feel the manufacture either does not know what it actually does or they are afraid we will find out what it is. The marketing falls short and will destroy a good product.

Thanks slap bash, but take everything you see on this forum with a pinch of salt.

Sales of vision and new happy users have been steadily increasing since we launched in December. If this was not happening then I could see your point.

Better cleanin power, added shine, quicker and more efficient rinsing, less spotting from troublesome windows.

That's what we have always said vision does and nothing has changed.

Jonny.

[SeanK]

Vision is a good product. I cannot understand how the chaps that make it are so shy to come forward and state what there  product does.  Instead there is always a ongoing  debate on what it does and what to expect of it and the results it will deliver. This fact will destroy a very good product and the longer this debate goes on the more opportunity will be lost to be successful.  I feel the manufacture either does not know what it actually does or they are afraid we will find out what it is. The marketing falls short and will destroy a good product.

Thanks slap bash, but take everything you see on this forum with a pinch of salt.

Sales of vision and new happy users have been steadily increasing since we launched in December. If this was not happening then I could see your point.

Better cleanin power, added shine, quicker and more efficient rinsing, less spotting from troublesome windows.

That's what we have always said vision does and nothing has changed.

Jonny.

Does take everything you see with a pinch of salt include what you have just said.

[Dave Willis]

Dishwasher salt?

[paulben]

Rebottle of something else with a pinch of something else just so they can say its not something straight of the shelf