[CleanClear]

who uses one and who does not thinking of ditching mine

I've tried with one, without one and also tried just a motor speed controller. I'm firmly in the "i use a controller " camp. I've found runing without one drains your battery quicker, creates splash back from the excess water you do not need, soaks all the floor uneccesarily, leaves all your pipe work (hoses) sitting primed at 100 PSI, makes you burn out pressure switches quicker.

Cleanclear the only problem I see that you mentioned is splash back from the water coming out faster, but that really depends on the way your brush is setup and not a problem if the water is contained within the bristles. The switch problem is easily eliminated by setting the little screw on the pump properly. The more battery power makes sense because your cleaning more windows in a set time, and there should be no excess water as you are only using the same amount but delivering it faster. I also put in a relay that protects the pump switch which takes seconds to change and protects the pump switch.

I'm set up using fans, and i clean pretty much using an almost one pass method. More water wouldn't make me any quicker, i can only go as fast as i can brush the window. It cannot be the case that water delivered quicker makes you clean quicker per se, other wise we could just hose down windows.

 If i was to say to you i use a 2LPM pump then you would say thats not enough and it will slow you down and i'd agree.  If i told you i use a 200LPM pump you'd say thats to much. At some point there will be an optimum flow. My idea is that the pump can produce more than the optimum flow so needs throttling down if you like. Your idea is that it can go full whack and that is optimum. I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree on that.

[ChumBucket]

Bang on! And that "optimum" flow will change with circumstances- which of course you can change to adapt with a controller. To suggest that full flow is optimum is ludicrous & indicates a very naive level of understanding. Most peoples full flow will be different anyway as pump, pipes, hose, filters etc all play a part in restricting the flow via capacity/resistance. It's such a poor, ill-informed & utterly useless answer to suggest that someone is better off without a controller it beggars belief- particularly from certain people!!

[jk999]

I think its the rinsing off thats quicker not the scrubbing off the windows

[Peter Fogwill]

Let me start by saying I sell controllers, and let's forget them being some kind of little magic box that saves batteries as you only get out of it what you put in.  A pump draws 7amps per hour, and if you have it on half way it will draw 3.5 amps per hour. Same goes for your water tank, you put 400L of water in you get 400L of water out. You take it out half the speed it will take twice as long to empty the tank. Let's forget the pressure stuff, leaky pipes and the types of connections you use. The pump has a little screw near the switch that needs set and determines the pressure build up in the system before the pressure switch on the pump cuts the pump off, and like I said earlier it was peoples non ability to set these properly that the controller was introduced for.  I am not going to argue with the above, that's fact.

I would also like to add that I have seen enough videos on YouTube of window cleaners cleaning windows with water fed poles to know for a fact that nearly all of them are wasting far too much time and or water to clean a window.  And have been on forums and heard house prices, times etc being discussed enough times to work out that most people could be earning so much more per hour than they are, and it can only be caused by the way they work. I agree £80 is not a lot of money but can't see any point of spending £80 to slow your productivity down, and like it or not its another thing that can go wrong.

Would you all have the same attitude to someone who had the audacity to prefer to have his controller up full? I mean you all don't have them set at the same, what if someone preferred his up full because he could work faster and get more done? It that's OK with you then it's exactly the same as not having one at all.

Now what we are left with as someone just mentioned is preference of how fast you have the water leave the brush. Now we are not talking 200 gallons per minute we are talking about a 100psi standard pump going through 100M of microbore hose, it's not a great deal of water on full. Not one bit of that water is wasted if it all touches the glass in use. Yes it will be wasted if any of it is missing the glass and hitting the walls but surely none of us are going to be doing that? If so then obviously if you waste 20L doing that on half power then you will waste 40L on full power.

 It beats me how some people want to attack when someone has a different idea from them, instead of looking at it and maybe finding out something you may not know. Especially so when they tell you that it's far more productive. Reminds me of an old guy many years ago working away on a Main Street and I stopped to show him a new product that would have made his work a hell of a lot easier and faster. Before I even had a chance to show him he started shouting at me saying something like " don't you try and tell me anything, I have been cleaning windows for 40 years" I just shook my head and walked away.  Its a bit like that in here sometimes and scares a lot of people off. I know folk personally that have came across the same gang mentality when they have had different views, and it has put them off participating, which is a shame.  You can have different views without it getting personal.

[dazmond]

I want to be able to adjust my flow rate to suit the job & weather. For instance, I wouldn't use the same flow rate on delicate wafer thin georgian panes on a listed country mansion as I would with modern large pane sheet glass. I also wouldn't want gallons of water splashing all over the place in minus temperatures, creating slip hazards. There is no argument for cleaning the window quicker apart from in "ideal" situations as cobwebs, bird poo, spider poo, etc etc are all going to take the same amount of scrub time regardless of flow rate so this is where you are just wasting water for absolutely no reason.  

I rely on the pressure monitoring of the controller to keep the same pre-determined flow rate perfectly consistent regardless of the height of the pole, without any manual adjustment from me.

By not having my pump running flat out all day I can, and have done for some years now, run my pump directly from the van's own battery without any issues. No split charge relays, no separate leisure battery to fanny about with charging every night etc.

I can adjust the pressure values independently of the flow rate with the controller. So in winter I can compensate the naturally more sensitive DE by virtue of pressure only & I don't have to up the flow rate along with it.

I don't have masses of pressure in my system (as the controller takes care of it). So much so that all my connections are Hozelock & all barbs to hose are retained ONLY via plastic cable ties not even jubilee clips. I have a totally leak free system, dry van & no requirement for any of that protectakote stuff. Pressure set to perfection!

In fact, all I do is press one button in the morning & all the above is taken care of The best part of it all is that we are only talking around 80 quid for a top quality controller too. It's a no brainer but unfortunately, we have people who don't & never have fully understand how a controller works, what it's supposed to do & most importantly- how to set up/adjust to a specific system of components to achieve all the above benefits! You get stupid posters who give it "I never had anything but trouble with mine, better off without it" well, that proves my point perfectly. To me, apart from being completely inefficient, using a pump constantly on full flow is a mask for poor technique & method.

Eighty quid, it is literally unbelievable!
 
 

i agree mate about the controller.full bore is just too much flow for most regular window cleaning.i do have mine on 60 most of the time so its quite high.my last one lasted 3 years before finally giving up used day in/day out.you can check the battery voltage and it puts less strain on both pump and batteries.

[ChumBucket]

Let me start by saying I sell controllers, and let's forget them being some kind of little magic box that saves batteries as you only get out of it what you put in.  A pump draws 7amps per hour, and if you have it on half way it will draw 3.5 amps per hour. Same goes for your water tank, you put 400L of water in you get 400L of water out. You take it out half the speed it will take twice as long to empty the tank. Let's forget the pressure stuff, leaky pipes and the types of connections you use. The pump has a little screw near the switch that needs set and determines the pressure build up in the system before the pressure switch on the pump cuts the pump off, and like I said earlier it was peoples non ability to set these properly that the controller was introduced for.  I am not going to argue with the above, that's fact.

I would also like to add that I have seen enough videos on YouTube of window cleaners cleaning windows with water fed poles to know for a fact that nearly all of them are wasting far too much time and or water to clean a window.  And have been on forums and heard house prices, times etc being discussed enough times to work out that most people could be earning so much more per hour than they are, and it can only be caused by the way they work. I agree £80 is not a lot of money but can't see any point of spending £80 to slow your productivity down, and like it or not its another thing that can go wrong.

Would you all have the same attitude to someone who had the audacity to prefer to have his controller up full? I mean you all don't have them set at the same, what if someone preferred his up full because he could work faster and get more done? It that's OK with you then it's exactly the same as not having one at all.

Now what we are left with as someone just mentioned is preference of how fast you have the water leave the brush. Now we are not talking 200 gallons per minute we are talking about a 100psi standard pump going through 100M of microbore hose, it's not a great deal of water on full. Not one bit of that water is wasted if it all touches the glass in use. Yes it will be wasted if any of it is missing the glass and hitting the walls but surely none of us are going to be doing that? If so then obviously if you waste 20L doing that on half power then you will waste 40L on full power.

 It beats me how some people want to attack when someone has a different idea from them, instead of looking at it and maybe finding out something you may not know. Especially so when they tell you that it's far more productive. Reminds me of an old guy many years ago working away on a Main Street and I stopped to show him a new product that would have made his work a hell of a lot easier and faster. Before I even had a chance to show him he started shouting at me saying something like " don't you try and tell me anything, I have been cleaning windows for 40 years" I just shook my head and walked away.  Its a bit like that in here sometimes and scares a lot of people off. I know folk personally that have came across the same gang mentality when they have had different views, and it has put them off participating, which is a shame.  You can have different views without it getting personal.

I'm still speechless!! I can't believe what I'm reading. Peter, you are talking nonsense buddy. I'm all for learning but learning things that are factual & correct & move me forwards not backwards! I don't know how much, if any window cleaning you actually do day in day out but by what you've wrote it would suggest none, zero! You are talking rubbish & that's a shame on the people who haven't the experience or knowledge to decipher what is & isn't correct in these situations.

[Peter Fogwill]

Well you try telling that to one of the many people that has changed from the way you do it to the way I do it, and came back and told me I was right after all. Thing is I have proved it on numerous occasions with numerous people, have you? I bet you still lift the brush off the glass to rinse:)?

[ChumBucket]

 

[Dave Willis]

It is funny how different people  work - I mean a tap on the brush head, Jesus how daft is that?   Yet people do.

[ChumBucket]

It's also funny how someone who promotes working without an electronic flow controller spends his time designing & selling water saving products!! The £80 controller would have given the user ALL available options to begin with & done away with the need to save gallons of wasted water!

[Dave Willis]

It is funny how different people  work - I mean a tap on the brush head, Jesus how daft is that?   Yet people do.

Oops, not aimed at Mr Fogwell by the way, just people who put a flow valve at the top of their poles.

[Tom White]

who uses one and who does not thinking of ditching mine

I didn't use one for a few years, but on some big commercial jobs, or on large compact residential, two of us could empty the tank by mid-day.  And since I work with my Missis, when I went home to refill, often she wouldn't come back out to work with me. 

So I DIY'd a couple of controllers (I didn't have a good experience with a couple of flow controllers I had earlier) and they've been class.

If water conservation isn't a problem, go for it, you'll work quicker.  Rinsing is a doddle with a fast flow; you almost don't need to bother.

Can I ask why you're thinking of ditching yours?

[Trev Jones]

It is funny how different people  work - I mean a tap on the brush head, Jesus how daft is that?   Yet people do.

Oops, not aimed at Mr Fogwell by the way, just people who put a flow valve at the top of their poles.

I have one at the top of the pole and at the end of the pole hose, must admit I only use the one at the end  if someone comes talking to me when the pole is extended. Having a tap at the brush end is great when doing the ground floor windows, no bending down to find the tap. I just pinch the hose when moving from window to window on the higher ones. Each to their own, I have used the aqua-dapter, which is very good, but swapped onto the tap when I bought an extreme pole, I now prefer this way and the tap at the brush end is a light plastic John guest one and a  metal tap is at the end of the pole hose. We all work differently, this doesn't make me people daft.  😊

[Window Lickers]

i use a controller but its always on full whack and i don't waste water ............one or two guys on here are now using 10lpm pumps.

my pump is 5lpm but on full you don't get that once its been through hosereel/pole hose/jets .

I use one a 10 LPM pump. I'd say it is in actual fact almost too fast. But let's not worry about a little bit of over-zealous rinsing. I'd rather use too much than too little.

[ChumBucket]

i use a controller but its always on full whack and i don't waste water ............one or two guys on here are now using 10lpm pumps.

my pump is 5lpm but on full you don't get that once its been through hosereel/pole hose/jets .

I use one a 10 LPM pump. I'd say it is in actual fact almost too fast. But let's not worry about a little bit of over-zealous rinsing. I'd rather use too much than too little.

I'd rather use just the right amount and that optimum amount be exactly determined by me.

[Window Lickers]

That's the beauty of it all.

We each get to choose and use as we each see fit.

[CleanClear]

I also put in a relay that protects the pump switch which takes seconds to change and protects the pump switch.

Peter would you share the info on this please. As i've said i donlt operate like that, but my mates son does ,and if that relay switch will aid him i'll pass the info on. Thanks.

[Jonny 87]

For the first few years I used to use a very low flow rate, as I thought that if I used any higher then I'd be wasting water and splashing too much water everywhere.

In fact it was the opposite. I turned my flow up and then I realised I was using less water because my speed had greatly increased. For argument sake say I was using 2 litres of water to clean a window.....instead of taking two minutes to clean a window, I was now doing it in under a minute.

Thanks to the advice of peter fogwill and a few others I now use a much higher flow rate (nearly flat out like peter advises) and I have noticed benefits in quality, speed and more importantly workload. I'm now quicker, which allows me to get through more work in a day.

Peter is advising about 2.5 - 3 litres per minute flow rate (100 psi 5lpm pump) which is the max water flow of your average pump, which in my experience is the perfect amount.

[Peter Fogwill]

Cleanclear I will do a diagram or something tomorrow to show where the wires go, and also a product code from Maplins of the relay I use. The pump uses 7amps to run and there is heat generated passing through the little contacts in the pump switch. With a relay the relay has the 7amps and sends a tiny signal to the pump switch instead of 7amps so protecting it. The relay has a much meatier set of contacts so handles it much better. It only takes seconds to change a relay and no bits to loose or damage.

Jonny my customers probably use a little less than that as I use 8mm microbore  from the tank to the pump which probably slows the water down a touch. I use this to reduce on hoselock type connections where it can draw air, and also from the pump to hose reel which stops the chances of leaks.

[CleanClear]

THanks Peter. One downside we foind to the motor speed controllers (maybe ours whern't up to the job) was that they melted the wiring. Kept on working mind, but they did get hot.