[gary evans]

Dont know if this true but returned from work today & found message left on answer phone from reporter of Express & Star Newspaper, asking if i knew the window cleaner that had died from a fall from ladders & would i wish to make a comment.

I,ve heard nothing & not had paper delivered, do,nt know if this is true or not.

Shocking news if it is.

Appently he fell off a ladder in lichfield, no other details other than he came from brownhill.

[gaza]

A customer of  mine told me 1 w/c has been killed just a few streets from were i live
boke his leg in a fall but they didnt know about a blood clot

THATS TWO IN TWO WEEKS 1 IS TO MANY

 GAZA

[thewindowcleaner1]

Dont know if this true but returned from work today & found message left on answer phone from reporter of Express & Star Newspaper, asking if i knew the window cleaner that had died from a fall from ladders & would i wish to make a comment.

YES its true I had the same call. a 41 year old windowcleaner working in Lichfield fell 20ft at 12.15 yesterday and died at 3pm at Burton hostptal...

Add to this two weeks ago a man fell from ladders (not known if window cleaner) while working at a factory in Cannock and was air lifted to Solihull Hospital (no follow up story re condition)but it said he had serious head injurys.

Add to them I picked up a factory unit last week because thier window cleaner had fallen from his ladder last year and broke both his legs.

Plus a local window cleaner has recently started back after falling from ladder and fracturing his hip..

it reads like a casualty list from a war zone..
Ain't I glad that I hardley use ladders

[Sir Squeaky]

I'd still like to know how you actually fall off a ladder.

[Moderator David@stives]

squeeky

It happens mate ,when you least expect it.

You dont say i think i will fall off my ladder today it just creeps up and gets you one day, and that will be the last you know about it.

I dont think there are any instructions.

[chris@c.m.s]

Maybe you won't know Roger untill you manage to do it, then hopefully you'll pick yourself up and still wonder how you did it.  

[poleman]

I'd still like to know how you actually fall off a ladder.

Gravity

[gaza]

SQUEEKY MATE:HOPE YOU LIVE TO TELL US ABOUT IT,MYw/c fell out of the top of his wheelie bin,nearly 18 months ago and still not back at work,maybe never will so he tells me,he had never had a fall in 26 yrs.

 gaza

[dai]

I think what Squeaky means is, people very rarely fall off ladders. It's the ladders that slip and you go with them. I did manage to fall off once. some daft sod had fitted a tilt and turn window upside down. I was detailing the top corner when the window opened from the top and pushed me off.
Had a narrow escape again today. My Unger pole touched an overhead wire, or at least the brush did. I was wearing thick rubber coated gloves. I heard a sharp crack, but felt nothing, no damage to the pole either. I thought that incoming electric wires were well insulated. It's not the first time Ive touched one, never heard them crack before though. Mind you it was hissing down at the time. Dai

[Ian_Giles]

Roger, how on earth can you pose a question like that?

I mostly agree with Dai's reply, and do understand what Rog was probably trying to get at; however...

It's a rather serious thread and there isn't a window cleaner on this forum that doesn't realise that working off a ladder is inherently dangerous.

I'm not using this as an excuse to bang on about the virtues of WFP, to be honest I don't believe we should be stopped from working off ladders.

However; accidents happen mostly as a result of complacency, and all who use ladders on a daily basis will be guilty of it, without exception.
Placing your ladder, climbing your ladder, working off your ladder all become things you do instinctively, you just don't have to think and focus on each step in the process, much like driving a car, half the time we are on auto pilot.

Many people working off ladders won't follow full safety procedures and they never will, no matter how much legislation is implemented.
How many of you will use anti slip mats, fall restraints, tie off the ladders where possible, have the little articulated rubber feet on every ladder, and so on and so on.
In a hurry?
Ever climbed up or down the ladder 2 rungs at a time? Or even just rushed up and down as fast as you can.
What about your footwear?
Ever used old training shoes that are worn smooth and split on the sides?

Ever reached to a top corner of a window and stuck out a leg to counter balance yourself?
Ever climbed a ladder holding tools in one hand and the ladder in the other?

All of the above contribute to falling of a ladder.

So far as I am concerned, health and safety goes too far, and the problem is that there is always another step that can be taken to further reduce accidents.

I myself no longer work off ladders in part because of all of the above, but I RESENT being forced off them for my own good.

It is always worrying to hear of fatal accidents in our trade because of working at height, but that is the risk we take to earn a crust.
There are tens of thousands (well ok, many thousands at least) of window cleaners working off ladders a few have accidents bad enough to end their lives and many others have accidents resulting in broken limbs and so on.
But we can't live our lives cocooned in cotton wool.
The vast majority live and work off ladders their whole lives with only a few incidents.
How many close calls have you had in your cars?
How many car accidents have you had?
Ever had an electric shock from some home appliance or power tool?
How many footballers out there have ruined cruciate ligaments?
Play rugby?
How many injuries have you picked up over the years?
Ever climbed a tree as a kid?.........ever fell out of that tree?

Accidents happen!

Some things with working off ladders are simple common sense, I hate the fact that we are going to be legislated off them altogether at some point in the future.
If you are in the building trade you aren't even supposed to work off a step ladder
You have to have a platfrom, and if you are as high as 3ft of the ground that platform has to have guard rails all the way around too   And kick boards If something should fall off that dizzying height and land on someones toe that is classified as a working at height injury


But for Squeaks to actually ask how you fall off a ladder...sigh


Ian

[Terry_Burrows]

its easy done things on your mind etc,it takes just one lack of concerntration,and it happens,many years ago I was working up a ladder all day,as I was coming down I steped off,to my shock I thought I was at the last rung,I steped off at around the 8th rung,landed sq on me feet,the shock
run right up my christmas crackers, boy did that hurt,all because my mind was some where else at the time,you cannot afford to day dream at any time when working at height,ladders as we all know we use only if we have to.

safe cleaning

[Sir Squeaky]

Had a narrow escape again today. My Unger pole touched an overhead wire, or at least the brush did....

Not the first time I've heard this either....
More chance of that than "falling off" a ladder.

Six of one and half a dozen of the other really isn't it?

I sympathise with the person and families involved and I mean no disrespect, but there's plenty of new ways to injure or kill yourself now.

My mrs slipped on a wet doorway left by icy water the other day...Safe?

[gaza]

IAN:good writing that man,you havent been watching me work have you, If its the w/c in Nottm who I think it is a nicer man you could never meet,why is it the nice ones end up a statistic,and the scum who undercut pinch work,dont pay tax get away with it?

 gaza

[Ian_Giles]

Don't forget, an extended ladder can touch a power line as easily as a pole, and that power line has to be in poor condition to give you a shock, they are insulated afterall.

I wasn't using this thread to highlight WFP, I was actually standing up for the ladder user, but squeaks still had to have a pop at the pole user

Where safety is concerned there is simply no comparison between WFP and ladders, using safety as an arguement is a total waste of space for the ladder user.

But we are in danger of losing sight of the fact that most people who work off ladders will do so their entire lives without coming to any serious harm.
All manual workers are at risk of injury, it goes with the territory, but the Nanny State will grind remorselessly on and in a few years ladders will be for access only.
How long before the climbing of trees by kids will be made an offence that the parent will be punished for?
In some playgrounds they are not allowed to run around in case they fall over.

I wonder when the time will come when children are only allowed to ride bicycles in supervised areas only?
Then if a parent allows them to ride them unsupervised and on the public highways they'll get prosecuted?

Far fetched?
I wonder, Health and Safety is rapidly eroding all things that may cause any risk, and some 7 year old kid pedalling away through the town centre on a busy day just has to be very high risk indeed.....doesn't it?....

Ian

[rosskesava]

The last line is a sobering thought.

http://www.expressandstar.com/articles/news/es/article_87794.php

[Morph]

I'd still like to know how you actually fall off a ladder.

Rog, I'm sure you didn't mean it, but, I cannot believe the insensitivity of your remark.

There are guidelines in place for the safe handling of everything under the sun!

There are guidelines for the safe use of tractors.
Would you go up to someone and say, "I still don't know how you can let your tractor run over you?"?

I respect most of what you say in defence of old fashioned window cleaning with a mop and squeegee and ladder.  In fact, I wish I had your conviction.

But this comment is well out of order.

Apologise!!!

This poor man is dead!

His poor family may read this!!  Or someone may relate it.

He was 41!  Close to your age.  Think about it. It could easily have been you, but it wasn't you..

 so you can afford to.....

Show some respect!

What if they printed this thread?

Probably a nice guy.  Loved his family.  Hoping to pay his mortgage before too long.  Maybe 2 or 3 months make the decision to have a holiday.  Spend some time with the family.
Think about what to do next.




No more debates/speculation.

I am so sorry.

[rosskesava]

I think Rogers comments were valid if maybe seemingly a bit insensative.

It's a bit hard but that is what a coroner's court will ask. Those hard and cruel facts go towards making new laws and new statistics.

The problem is that when there is a fatailty and the person was alone, it all becomes guess work as to what lead to it.

Often, and from experience from my last job, it all comes down to not understanding the risks in a way that is complete and acting accordingly. Or a moments lack of concentration. That, and the unexpected which will always happen in any walk of life.

It's very sad and my heart goes out to the w/c's family.

[Sir Squeaky]

I'm sorry if what I said offended anyone or disrespected the subject of the the thread, but it was taken the wrong way.

It wasn't a direct question about the person involved, just a general puzzlement how of you just drop off ladder.
As people have said, it's due to stretching, or putting it up at poor angles etc...

I did say in a subsequent post that I meant no offence or disrespect to the w/c in question and they have my sympathy.

That's the problem with text on a screen (even with smileys), it's not always easy to put things across right.

I just could have worded it better.....sorry.

Rog.

[Moderator David@stives]

I'm sorry if what I said offended anyone or disrespected the subject of the the thread, but it was taken the wrong way.

It wasn't a direct question about the person involved, just a general puzzlement how of you just drop off ladder.
As people have said, it's due to stretching, or putting it up at poor angles etc...

I did say in a subsequent post that I meant no offence or disrespect to the w/c in question and they have my sympathy.

That's the problem with text on a screen (even with smileys), it's not always easy to put things across right.

I just could have worded it better.....sorry.

Rog.

Roger

It would have been better to start another thread .

"how many ways to fall off a ladder" 

you are a bit like me its easy to keep putting your size 11`s in everything

[Morph]

I'm sorry too Squeaky, if I worded things a bit harsh.
Just read back my comments.

Better sometimes to say nothing.

I just felt so sad about the poor guy and his family.
As Ross said, the last line in the newspaper says it all.