[Ian101]

well did u get £1300 for training one person ?

[windiewasher]

Wheres this picture trevor wants to see?

[windiewasher]

well did u get £1300 for training one person ?

And we wonder why the country is a right mess?

[Ian101]

well did u get £1300 for training one person ?

And we wonder why the country is a right mess?

apart from owners of training agencies ... alledgedly

[keyser soze]

andrew willis top bloke. he made a good living out of training us windies   . he found a market and the gov funded it and got rich .. many people throughout different businesses have done the same thing . i had an apprentice and got a gov grant ... effectively got paid for free.... so what............... THE GREEN EYED MONSTER HAS SHOWN ITS UGLY HEAD imao . i met the bloke, he's a gent..........
good luck andrew   

[robert mitchell]

i agree with cowboy to a certain extent , if the government are going to throw money at him there is no reason not to take it , if it wasnt him it would be somebody else .

i do however totally disagree with having to cordon off to use a pole and think he has misinterpreted the law .

There has to be some common sense when it comes to health and safety .

[davids3511]

andrew willis top bloke. he made a good living out of training us windies   . he found a market and the gov funded it and got rich .. many people throughout different businesses have done the same thing . i had an apprentice and got a gov grant ... effectively got paid for free.... so what............... THE GREEN EYED MONSTER HAS SHOWN ITS UGLY HEAD imao . i met the bloke, he's a gent..........
good luck andrew  

I think you are misreading the motive here. I don't think its jealousy, I think it's closer to disgust (at the Gov, not necessarily at Impact).

[Ian101]

andrew willis top bloke. he made a good living out of training us windies   . he found a market and the gov funded it and got rich .. many people throughout different businesses have done the same thing . i had an apprentice and got a gov grant ... effectively got paid for free.... so what............... THE GREEN EYED MONSTER HAS SHOWN ITS UGLY HEAD imao . i met the bloke, he's a gent..........
good luck andrew  

I think you are misreading the motive here. I don't think its jealousy, I think it's closer to disgust (at the Gov, not necessarily at Impact).

Correct

[niceandclean]

There are lots of Government funded courses out there, at no cost to the employee or the employer. I have a customer who is in retail (works for Next), late 40's and is doing a distance management course. The company that assess her go to her workplace each month to do the tests. How much do you think the assessment companies are getting from the Government for each student or for the day?? When i was in sales, i was sent on many different courses, all paid for by the employer back then, The cost in the early 2000's was £450 per day per person. Right or wrong, if the Government are going to chuck some money at companies to provide training, then why shouldn't they take it? I know i would!! 
Regarding the level of information and training on the Impact 43 courses, i can't comment as i have not been on one, but if it is true that they are advising window cleaners to cordon off a large area on a domestic property to be able to clean safely, then it is H&S gone a little mad IMO!!
 

[robertphil]

cordon is a good idea, the hi viz tape will draw attention and prob get you further work .

[scud]

Not certain. (so don't quote me)  

But I have heard from a friend who heard in the pub.

That Allegedly,  

The window cleaning side of things failed so they had to sell that out.

So maybe the training sides time is being taken up on damage limitation?

As often Neil your post is totally incorrect

RE Mick and Davids window cleaning business
There are changes and for a good reason
This will be on a much bigger platform
When there ready I am sure it will become public knowledge

RE Training yes funding stops in July, we for some time new this was coming
I have not made any secrets of this
Impact43 will continue to train in the industry, smaller scale but to a good base of companies we have worked with for some time
Offering refresher training including ladder
So things are Ok across the board

Regards

Andy

  Is Neil really incorrect?

  I don't believe he is, having heard from a more than reliable source that clean safe have been purchased.

Sorry but I can speak on behalf of David and Michael ....No it has not

 But is not true that someone else is now in overall control of the business and has rebranded it?

No that's incorrect

The re branding part is correct

  All will come out in the end, but living in the area and knowing people always gives a bit of insight.

[windiewasher]

Not certain. (so don't quote me)  

But I have heard from a friend who heard in the pub.

That Allegedly,  

The window cleaning side of things failed so they had to sell that out.

So maybe the training sides time is being taken up on damage limitation?

As often Neil your post is totally incorrect

RE Mick and Davids window cleaning business
There are changes and for a good reason
This will be on a much bigger platform
When there ready I am sure it will become public knowledge

RE Training yes funding stops in July, we for some time new this was coming
I have not made any secrets of this
Impact43 will continue to train in the industry, smaller scale but to a good base of companies we have worked with for some time
Offering refresher training including ladder
So things are Ok across the board

Regards

Andy

  Is Neil really incorrect?

  I don't believe he is, having heard from a more than reliable source that clean safe have been purchased.

Sorry but I can speak on behalf of David and Michael ....No it has not

 But is not true that someone else is now in overall control of the business and has rebranded it?

No that's incorrect

The re branding part is correct

  All will come out in the end, but living in the area and knowing people always gives a bit of insight.

Couldnt be much good as clean safe if they need to rebrand?

[steve123]

Not certain. (so don't quote me)  

But I have heard from a friend who heard in the pub.

That Allegedly,  

The window cleaning side of things failed so they had to sell that out.

So maybe the training sides time is being taken up on damage limitation?

As often Neil your post is totally incorrect

RE Mick and Davids window cleaning business
There are changes and for a good reason
This will be on a much bigger platform
When there ready I am sure it will become public knowledge

RE Training yes funding stops in July, we for some time new this was coming
I have not made any secrets of this
Impact43 will continue to train in the industry, smaller scale but to a good base of companies we have worked with for some time
Offering refresher training including ladder
So things are Ok across the board

Regards

Andy

  Is Neil really incorrect?

  I don't believe he is, having heard from a more than reliable source that clean safe have been purchased.

Sorry but I can speak on behalf of David and Michael ....No it has not

 But is not true that someone else is now in overall control of the business and has rebranded it?

No that's incorrect

The re branding part is correct

  All will come out in the end, but living in the area and knowing people always gives a bit of insight.

Couldnt be much good as clean safe if they need to rebrand?

what are they called now? 

[windiewasher]

Not certain. (so don't quote me)  

But I have heard from a friend who heard in the pub.

That Allegedly,  

The window cleaning side of things failed so they had to sell that out.

So maybe the training sides time is being taken up on damage limitation?

As often Neil your post is totally incorrect

RE Mick and Davids window cleaning business
There are changes and for a good reason
This will be on a much bigger platform
When there ready I am sure it will become public knowledge

RE Training yes funding stops in July, we for some time new this was coming
I have not made any secrets of this
Impact43 will continue to train in the industry, smaller scale but to a good base of companies we have worked with for some time
Offering refresher training including ladder
So things are Ok across the board

Regards

Andy

  Is Neil really incorrect?

  I don't believe he is, having heard from a more than reliable source that clean safe have been purchased.

Sorry but I can speak on behalf of David and Michael ....No it has not

 But is not true that someone else is now in overall control of the business and has rebranded it?

No that's incorrect

The re branding part is correct

  All will come out in the end, but living in the area and knowing people always gives a bit of insight.

Couldnt be much good as clean safe if they need to rebrand?

what are they called now? 

Ive forgot.lol
About reply 7 or 8 it says lol

[CleanClear]

can you blame um

Why?

Because it'll end up in about five pages of crap ? 

[trevor perry]

no Andrew I have not committed to these courses as yet , will you post the picture that I mentioned in my post to get other peoples opinions on whether a cherrypicker would be the best option for the job mentioned It would be interesting to get other forum members views

Trevor take your IOSH Managing safely then NEBOSH general certificate and I will provide the photo's, I will also offer to attend the NEBOSH course date and offer my time up for what ever group you are in to discus that case. After you have done that If you still feel the need to put photos on Clean It Up I will see if I can get permission from the client to put them on the forum
 
There is a new Facebook group set up to challenge the FWC committee, to get a new committee, challenge for change and one of the items I would put forward and to be addressed is the safe use of water fed pole and what controls are required, legal status, Not my view but that of a QC and judge, then to get the FWC or new trade association to produce a new guidance document.

www.facebook.com/groups/fwc.sos/  

 Andrew on the course you stated that you thought I was stuck in my ways and a bit unwilling to except other peoples views, well here is a chance to get other peoples views on how best to clean these windows why are you so unwilling to show the picture, a good trade association takes its members views on best work practices seriously and does not dictate the personal opinions of one member which I feel you tend to do.
  Your opinions on flat roof access are different than what the FWC advise and you obviously do not see things the way they and i do and yet again you seem adamant to push the issue of cordoning off when using water fed poles even though you cannot produce any evidence of a major accident taking place without these precautions. By your last post you have an agenda to set up a new committee on the FWC is this really needed or would it not be more beneficial to work with the committee already in place and get members views on what constitutes safe working practices.
  

Trevor, join the group and read my posts, If I wanted to set up a new trade association I would have and would not be wasting my time trying to get the current to change, this group is about forcing the current to change.

I will ask the FWC to get a clear legal status on the following, this should come from a QC and a Judge

Flat roof access from a ladder
Waterfed pole safety controls  

Thats me done on this issue

RE Photos I'll load them when you have completed your IOSH and NEBOSH certificate

Regards


Andy

 Andrew you claim you are always willing for open discussion then you refuse to post a photo you give guidance on  in your course for members on this forum to discuss, saying you will do this after I have passed a IOSH and NEBOSH course is just childish and basically find it insulting that you feel I am not intelligent enough to discuss the matter without these certificates. You are very quick to point out flows in peoples working practice regarding WFP yet you yourself admit that you have no working experience with this equipment so why should we take your recommendations on safe working practice.
  In earlier posts I pointed out shortcomings of your training course ie is it good practice to offer a safe use of ladder certificate to a candidate that only climbs small ladder once in deal conditions, or using a fake photoshopped  accident as an experience model on your course, are you going to address these issues before tackling others working practices.
  I feel I have covered all the points I need to raise on this issue and will oppose any cordoning off restrictions you plan to implement by law unless you can produce legitimate accident statistics that show a need for the change.
  
 

Bloody hell Trev lighten up mate your have a heart attack at this rate

Look I would not normally discus a candidate on a forum but as you have opened up the comments I will comment on your remarks about the ladder course

Did I over several workshops provide information on the safe selection, inspection and use of ladders
For the group you attended where these experienced
Do you guys not say don't tell us to suck eggs

On the day did Phil (trainer with over 30 years experience as a window cleaner) advised you not to climb a ladder two rungs at a time
Did i not inspect your ladders at the same time and advise I was shocked at the condition and that my recommendation was to cut them up

The training we provide is inline with others if not better

HSS when phil took his renewal certificate spent about 15 mins on practical
 
Our ladder training is on par with the FWC

Dont see you coming on here making comments about theirs.

Cant help like you Trev :]

 On our the course there was one lad who had never climbed a ladder before in his life, so no not all where experienced.
 
 Phil did not tell me not to climb two rungs at a time I told him it was difficult to climb one rung at a time in order to get the certificate when I am used to climbing two at a time

 Yes you did inspect my ladders and you pointed out the ladder inspection tags where too high and should be lowered as an operative could catch his hands whilst coming down ladder, this was good sensible advice, you also stated the ladder tags should be fastened to ladder with cable ties as the quarter inch screws I had used could weaken the ladder making it unsafe, I did not take you up on this point at the time but have you not viewed all ladders they have big holes drilled in where the rungs go, many of the brackets and rung clips are screwed into place and yet this does not weaken the ladder to make them unfit for use so I doubt my quarter inch screws would be a problem.
 I did agree that the ladders where due to be replaced as coming to end of their lifespan but they where not unsafe.

 I have not been on any other ladder training courses so I cannot compare but if this is the standard across the board then the certificate is a complete waste of time and basically is just a piece of paper to cover the employers arse should an accident occur. No discussion took place on positioning of ladder for different window types and you had no ladder safety devices to demonstrate their strengths weaknesses.

 Your right Andrew maybe you cant help people like me but can you post that photo and discuss the reason why you think a cherrypicker would be better than WFP for the job at least then other forum members can decide who is talking sense.

 
 
 


 

 

[windiewasher]

Lets see the pic andrew please

[keyser soze]

i dont think he will . some on here will rip him to shreds .. health and safety is a matter of opinion . lets just hope if an accident did occur to anyone of us, then the judge thinks the same as we do and not the claimant ..andrew has at least got all of us to question ourselves to what is safe to the operative and general public.. some may say this is a success in itself

[Ian Lancaster]

A few years ago the road transport industry was threatened by an insane proposal from whoever the EU safety policy makers are that all heavy goods drivers who wore spectacles must be able to see clearly enough without their spectacles to bring a lorry safely to a stop from the legal maximum speed.

This was justified by the assumption that it is possible that a driver's glasses may fall off while he is driving.

It ignored the fact that there has never been a single recorded instance of an accident occuring as a result of a driver's glasses falling off and came very close to disqualifying every HGV driver who needed glasses.

This was a clear example of what is happening in the 'safety' industry.

'Safety' is an industry like any other - it needs to create a demand for its products and so has a 'research and development' element devoted to examining every aspect of commercial and industrial activity with the sole intention of identifying ever more trivial situations where it can show there is a 'risk' (refer to above) and then devise regulations to address that risk, thereby justifying the continued existance of the safety industry and, more importantly, the jobs and income of those engaged within that industry.

Sensible safety precautions are essential but where it is in the interest of the authors of those precautions, 'sensible' becomes secondary to their self interest.

(The threat to the lorry drivers was challenged and defeated by a campaign in the national press of those countries in the EU which still have an independant news media)

[rosskesava]

no Andrew I have not committed to these courses as yet , will you post the picture that I mentioned in my post to get other peoples opinions on whether a cherrypicker would be the best option for the job mentioned It would be interesting to get other forum members views

Trevor take your IOSH Managing safely then NEBOSH general certificate and I will provide the photo's, I will also offer to attend the NEBOSH course date and offer my time up for what ever group you are in to discus that case. After you have done that If you still feel the need to put photos on Clean It Up I will see if I can get permission from the client to put them on the forum
 
There is a new Facebook group set up to challenge the FWC committee, to get a new committee, challenge for change and one of the items I would put forward and to be addressed is the safe use of water fed pole and what controls are required, legal status, Not my view but that of a QC and judge, then to get the FWC or new trade association to produce a new guidance document.

www.facebook.com/groups/fwc.sos/  

 Andrew on the course you stated that you thought I was stuck in my ways and a bit unwilling to except other peoples views, well here is a chance to get other peoples views on how best to clean these windows why are you so unwilling to show the picture, a good trade association takes its members views on best work practices seriously and does not dictate the personal opinions of one member which I feel you tend to do.
  Your opinions on flat roof access are different than what the FWC advise and you obviously do not see things the way they and i do and yet again you seem adamant to push the issue of cordoning off when using water fed poles even though you cannot produce any evidence of a major accident taking place without these precautions. By your last post you have an agenda to set up a new committee on the FWC is this really needed or would it not be more beneficial to work with the committee already in place and get members views on what constitutes safe working practices.
  

Trevor, join the group and read my posts, If I wanted to set up a new trade association I would have and would not be wasting my time trying to get the current to change, this group is about forcing the current to change.

I will ask the FWC to get a clear legal status on the following, this should come from a QC and a Judge

Flat roof access from a ladder
Waterfed pole safety controls  

Thats me done on this issue

RE Photos I'll load them when you have completed your IOSH and NEBOSH certificate

Regards


Andy

 Andrew you claim you are always willing for open discussion then you refuse to post a photo you give guidance on  in your course for members on this forum to discuss, saying you will do this after I have passed a IOSH and NEBOSH course is just childish and basically find it insulting that you feel I am not intelligent enough to discuss the matter without these certificates. You are very quick to point out flows in peoples working practice regarding WFP yet you yourself admit that you have no working experience with this equipment so why should we take your recommendations on safe working practice.
  In earlier posts I pointed out shortcomings of your training course ie is it good practice to offer a safe use of ladder certificate to a candidate that only climbs small ladder once in deal conditions, or using a fake photoshopped  accident as an experience model on your course, are you going to address these issues before tackling others working practices.
  I feel I have covered all the points I need to raise on this issue and will oppose any cordoning off restrictions you plan to implement by law unless you can produce legitimate accident statistics that show a need for the change.
  
 

Bloody hell Trev lighten up mate your have a heart attack at this rate

Look I would not normally discus a candidate on a forum but as you have opened up the comments I will comment on your remarks about the ladder course

Did I over several workshops provide information on the safe selection, inspection and use of ladders
For the group you attended where these experienced
Do you guys not say don't tell us to suck eggs

On the day did Phil (trainer with over 30 years experience as a window cleaner) advised you not to climb a ladder two rungs at a time
Did i not inspect your ladders at the same time and advise I was shocked at the condition and that my recommendation was to cut them up

The training we provide is inline with others if not better

HSS when phil took his renewal certificate spent about 15 mins on practical
 
Our ladder training is on par with the FWC

Dont see you coming on here making comments about theirs.

Cant help like you Trev :]

 On our the course there was one lad who had never climbed a ladder before in his life, so no not all where experienced.
 
 Phil did not tell me not to climb two rungs at a time I told him it was difficult to climb one rung at a time in order to get the certificate when I am used to climbing two at a time

 Yes you did inspect my ladders and you pointed out the ladder inspection tags where too high and should be lowered as an operative could catch his hands whilst coming down ladder, this was good sensible advice, you also stated the ladder tags should be fastened to ladder with cable ties as the quarter inch screws I had used could weaken the ladder making it unsafe, I did not take you up on this point at the time but have you not viewed all ladders they have big holes drilled in where the rungs go, many of the brackets and rung clips are screwed into place and yet this does not weaken the ladder to make them unfit for use so I doubt my quarter inch screws would be a problem.
 I did agree that the ladders where due to be replaced as coming to end of their lifespan but they where not unsafe.

 I have not been on any other ladder training courses so I cannot compare but if this is the standard across the board then the certificate is a complete waste of time and basically is just a piece of paper to cover the employers arse should an accident occur. No discussion took place on positioning of ladder for different window types and you had no ladder safety devices to demonstrate their strengths weaknesses.

 Your right Andrew maybe you cant help people like me but can you post that photo and discuss the reason why you think a cherrypicker would be better than WFP for the job at least then other forum members can decide who is talking sense.

 
 
 


 

 

What was the point being made?