[trevor perry]

no Andrew I have not committed to these courses as yet , will you post the picture that I mentioned in my post to get other peoples opinions on whether a cherrypicker would be the best option for the job mentioned It would be interesting to get other forum members views

Trevor take your IOSH Managing safely then NEBOSH general certificate and I will provide the photo's, I will also offer to attend the NEBOSH course date and offer my time up for what ever group you are in to discus that case. After you have done that If you still feel the need to put photos on Clean It Up I will see if I can get permission from the client to put them on the forum
 
There is a new Facebook group set up to challenge the FWC committee, to get a new committee, challenge for change and one of the items I would put forward and to be addressed is the safe use of water fed pole and what controls are required, legal status, Not my view but that of a QC and judge, then to get the FWC or new trade association to produce a new guidance document.

www.facebook.com/groups/fwc.sos/  

 Andrew on the course you stated that you thought I was stuck in my ways and a bit unwilling to except other peoples views, well here is a chance to get other peoples views on how best to clean these windows why are you so unwilling to show the picture, a good trade association takes its members views on best work practices seriously and does not dictate the personal opinions of one member which I feel you tend to do.
  Your opinions on flat roof access are different than what the FWC advise and you obviously do not see things the way they and i do and yet again you seem adamant to push the issue of cordoning off when using water fed poles even though you cannot produce any evidence of a major accident taking place without these precautions. By your last post you have an agenda to set up a new committee on the FWC is this really needed or would it not be more beneficial to work with the committee already in place and get members views on what constitutes safe working practices.
 

[Nick Wareham]

I like the way Andy Willis takes the time to reply to everyone's comments, EXCEPT MINE where I clearly point out that the regulations DO NOT require cordoning off when using waterfed poles, and that he is plainly wrong.

Then I see things like this, and his agenda is all too clear:

one of the items I would put forward and to be addressed is the safe use of water fed pole and what controls are required, legal status, Not my view but that of a QC and judge, then to get the FWC or new trade association to produce a new guidance document.

Yes Andy Willis would just love to be involved with this, and you can bet your bottom dollar that any guidance he proposes will be in the interest of HIM and not the window cleaner.

Question: Why do you think there needs to be guidance on what controls are required?  What accident statistics have you got to show they are needed?  NONE because there aren't any, because it is not a problem.

When I went on the BWCA course, they said the HSE had already produced official guidance on the use of waterfed pole, and showed us the document.  The fact that you don't know this just goes to show that you don't have a clue.

It's obvious that the only person to ever suggest that waterfed pole use needs "controls" in other words restrictions - is someone who will financially benefit from it. 

He's already proved he is willing to say anything to scare monger people into thinking the regulations require things they DO NOT, all so he can push his training.

We need all to be awake to what Andy Willis is doing here - he is proposing that window cleaners are restricted in how they currently work!  "Controls" on the use of waterfed pole?  We already know that he thinks that means we should be cordoning off!

If we aren't careful here, we could have a total numpty with vested interests like Andy Willis influencing the law, and that will be a very bad day for window cleaners.

[Andrew Willis]

no Andrew I have not committed to these courses as yet , will you post the picture that I mentioned in my post to get other peoples opinions on whether a cherrypicker would be the best option for the job mentioned It would be interesting to get other forum members views

Trevor take your IOSH Managing safely then NEBOSH general certificate and I will provide the photo's, I will also offer to attend the NEBOSH course date and offer my time up for what ever group you are in to discus that case. After you have done that If you still feel the need to put photos on Clean It Up I will see if I can get permission from the client to put them on the forum
 
There is a new Facebook group set up to challenge the FWC committee, to get a new committee, challenge for change and one of the items I would put forward and to be addressed is the safe use of water fed pole and what controls are required, legal status, Not my view but that of a QC and judge, then to get the FWC or new trade association to produce a new guidance document.

www.facebook.com/groups/fwc.sos/  

 Andrew on the course you stated that you thought I was stuck in my ways and a bit unwilling to except other peoples views, well here is a chance to get other peoples views on how best to clean these windows why are you so unwilling to show the picture, a good trade association takes its members views on best work practices seriously and does not dictate the personal opinions of one member which I feel you tend to do.
  Your opinions on flat roof access are different than what the FWC advise and you obviously do not see things the way they and i do and yet again you seem adamant to push the issue of cordoning off when using water fed poles even though you cannot produce any evidence of a major accident taking place without these precautions. By your last post you have an agenda to set up a new committee on the FWC is this really needed or would it not be more beneficial to work with the committee already in place and get members views on what constitutes safe working practices.
 

Trevor, join the group and read my posts, If I wanted to set up a new trade association I would have and would not be wasting my time trying to get the current to change, this group is about forcing the current to change.

I will ask the FWC to get a clear legal status on the following, this should come from a QC and a Judge

Flat roof access from a ladder
Waterfed pole safety controls 

Thats me done on this issue

RE Photos I'll load them when you have completed your IOSH and NEBOSH certificate

Regards


Andy

[Andrew Willis]

I like the way Andy Willis takes the time to reply to everyone's comments, EXCEPT MINE where I clearly point out that the regulations DO NOT require cordoning off when using waterfed poles, and that he is plainly wrong.

Then I see things like this, and his agenda is all too clear:

one of the items I would put forward and to be addressed is the safe use of water fed pole and what controls are required, legal status, Not my view but that of a QC and judge, then to get the FWC or new trade association to produce a new guidance document.

Yes Andy Willis would just love to be involved with this, and you can bet your bottom dollar that any guidance he proposes will be in the interest of HIM and not the window cleaner.

Question: Why do you think there needs to be guidance on what controls are required?  What accident statistics have you got to show they are needed?  NONE because there aren't any, because it is not a problem.

When I went on the BWCA course, they said the HSE had already produced official guidance on the use of waterfed pole, and showed us the document.  The fact that you don't know this just goes to show that you don't have a clue.

It's obvious that the only person to ever suggest that waterfed pole use needs "controls" in other words restrictions - is someone who will financially benefit from it.  

He's already proved he is willing to say anything to scare monger people into thinking the regulations require things they DO NOT, all so he can push his training.

We need all to be awake to what Andy Willis is doing here - he is proposing that window cleaners are restricted in how they currently work!  "Controls" on the use of waterfed pole?  We already know that he thinks that means we should be cordoning off!

If we aren't careful here, we could have a total numpty with vested interests like Andy Willis influencing the law, and that will be a very bad day for window cleaners.

Nick

I am in Southampton on July 9th, 10th 11th and 12th then 18th for two days
why don't we meet up.

If you don't want to attend the workshop where i will explain all you comment on and prefer to just come on a forum calling me, thats fine.

Re the Waterfed document I take it you refer to the FWC guidance  http://www.f-w-c.co.uk/documents/Safety_in_Window_Cleaning_using_Waterfed_Pole_Systems.Ameded2.pdf

I am more than aware of this, read it, It needs revising, it reminds me of the ladder version the FWC produced a guidence Misc 613 this was withdrawn

Regards

andy


PS Is this your company http://www.shine-again.co.uk

[Nick Wareham]

If you don't want to attend the workshop where i will explain all you comment on and prefer to just come on a forum calling me, thats fine.

No, I'd rather you just answered my points on here.  Your endless requests to 'meet up' and 'come on my training course' are, to be quite honest, idiotic.  I know you'd rather I wasn't showing you up on here, but that's life.

prefer to just come on a forum calling me

I simply pointed out what the law ACTUALLY says in comparison to what you said, which is totally different.

PS Is this your company http://www.shine-again.co.uk

LOL!  Trying to track me down are you Andy?  What are you going to do? Send some boys round to have a 'quiet word'?  Pathetic!

[trevor perry]

no Andrew I have not committed to these courses as yet , will you post the picture that I mentioned in my post to get other peoples opinions on whether a cherrypicker would be the best option for the job mentioned It would be interesting to get other forum members views

Trevor take your IOSH Managing safely then NEBOSH general certificate and I will provide the photo's, I will also offer to attend the NEBOSH course date and offer my time up for what ever group you are in to discus that case. After you have done that If you still feel the need to put photos on Clean It Up I will see if I can get permission from the client to put them on the forum
 
There is a new Facebook group set up to challenge the FWC committee, to get a new committee, challenge for change and one of the items I would put forward and to be addressed is the safe use of water fed pole and what controls are required, legal status, Not my view but that of a QC and judge, then to get the FWC or new trade association to produce a new guidance document.

www.facebook.com/groups/fwc.sos/  

 Andrew on the course you stated that you thought I was stuck in my ways and a bit unwilling to except other peoples views, well here is a chance to get other peoples views on how best to clean these windows why are you so unwilling to show the picture, a good trade association takes its members views on best work practices seriously and does not dictate the personal opinions of one member which I feel you tend to do.
  Your opinions on flat roof access are different than what the FWC advise and you obviously do not see things the way they and i do and yet again you seem adamant to push the issue of cordoning off when using water fed poles even though you cannot produce any evidence of a major accident taking place without these precautions. By your last post you have an agenda to set up a new committee on the FWC is this really needed or would it not be more beneficial to work with the committee already in place and get members views on what constitutes safe working practices.
  

Trevor, join the group and read my posts, If I wanted to set up a new trade association I would have and would not be wasting my time trying to get the current to change, this group is about forcing the current to change.

I will ask the FWC to get a clear legal status on the following, this should come from a QC and a Judge

Flat roof access from a ladder
Waterfed pole safety controls  

Thats me done on this issue

RE Photos I'll load them when you have completed your IOSH and NEBOSH certificate

Regards


Andy

 Andrew you claim you are always willing for open discussion then you refuse to post a photo you give guidance on  in your course for members on this forum to discuss, saying you will do this after I have passed a IOSH and NEBOSH course is just childish and basically find it insulting that you feel I am not intelligent enough to discuss the matter without these certificates. You are very quick to point out flows in peoples working practice regarding WFP yet you yourself admit that you have no working experience with this equipment so why should we take your recommendations on safe working practice.
  In earlier posts I pointed out shortcomings of your training course ie is it good practice to offer a safe use of ladder certificate to a candidate that only climbs small ladder once in deal conditions, or using a fake photoshopped  accident as an experience model on your course, are you going to address these issues before tackling others working practices.
  I feel I have covered all the points I need to raise on this issue and will oppose any cordoning off restrictions you plan to implement by law unless you can produce legitimate accident statistics that show a need for the change.
  
 

[Archer]

The main problem that I have is the only people that suffer out of this are actually US.

We go to work and do the best that we can possibly do to earn a living and try and better ourselves.

However as whatever organisation or training course people want to be called by, rather that bang on about whats right and whats wrong with how WE carry out our work, I would rather an organisation be formed to actually look after all of us and go round stopping window cleaners who work illegally and give the rest of us a bad name.

[SunShineCleaning]

The main problem that I have is the only people that suffer out of this are actually US.

We go to work and do the best that we can possibly do to earn a living and try and better ourselves.

However as whatever organisation or training course people want to be called by, rather that bang on about whats right and whats wrong with how WE carry out our work, I would rather an organisation be formed to actually look after all of us and go round stopping window cleaners who work illegally and give the rest of us a bad name.

If you are in charge for the day how would you stop them?

[Ian101]

not read ALL of the posts as quite frankly too tiresome but scanning them quickly is is correct we have a person who trains H and S but has never worked as a window cleaner  

[Ian101]

£1300 for training one person !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that cant be correct surely

[Archer]

Sunshine Cleaning,


I wouldn't be in charge for the day, that's why I said it would be better for someone to do it.

I am NOT clever enough to think about possible answers, I just merely suggest things that would possibly improve the general reputation of the window cleaner, and cut down on possible benefit cheats and others who use window cleaning as a smoke screen to weigh up houses or business's.

It has happened for years and it wont be stopped, but it can be cut down and make our profession better.

[Andrew Willis]

no Andrew I have not committed to these courses as yet , will you post the picture that I mentioned in my post to get other peoples opinions on whether a cherrypicker would be the best option for the job mentioned It would be interesting to get other forum members views

Trevor take your IOSH Managing safely then NEBOSH general certificate and I will provide the photo's, I will also offer to attend the NEBOSH course date and offer my time up for what ever group you are in to discus that case. After you have done that If you still feel the need to put photos on Clean It Up I will see if I can get permission from the client to put them on the forum
 
There is a new Facebook group set up to challenge the FWC committee, to get a new committee, challenge for change and one of the items I would put forward and to be addressed is the safe use of water fed pole and what controls are required, legal status, Not my view but that of a QC and judge, then to get the FWC or new trade association to produce a new guidance document.

www.facebook.com/groups/fwc.sos/  

 Andrew on the course you stated that you thought I was stuck in my ways and a bit unwilling to except other peoples views, well here is a chance to get other peoples views on how best to clean these windows why are you so unwilling to show the picture, a good trade association takes its members views on best work practices seriously and does not dictate the personal opinions of one member which I feel you tend to do.
  Your opinions on flat roof access are different than what the FWC advise and you obviously do not see things the way they and i do and yet again you seem adamant to push the issue of cordoning off when using water fed poles even though you cannot produce any evidence of a major accident taking place without these precautions. By your last post you have an agenda to set up a new committee on the FWC is this really needed or would it not be more beneficial to work with the committee already in place and get members views on what constitutes safe working practices.
  

Trevor, join the group and read my posts, If I wanted to set up a new trade association I would have and would not be wasting my time trying to get the current to change, this group is about forcing the current to change.

I will ask the FWC to get a clear legal status on the following, this should come from a QC and a Judge

Flat roof access from a ladder
Waterfed pole safety controls  

Thats me done on this issue

RE Photos I'll load them when you have completed your IOSH and NEBOSH certificate

Regards


Andy

 Andrew you claim you are always willing for open discussion then you refuse to post a photo you give guidance on  in your course for members on this forum to discuss, saying you will do this after I have passed a IOSH and NEBOSH course is just childish and basically find it insulting that you feel I am not intelligent enough to discuss the matter without these certificates. You are very quick to point out flows in peoples working practice regarding WFP yet you yourself admit that you have no working experience with this equipment so why should we take your recommendations on safe working practice.
  In earlier posts I pointed out shortcomings of your training course ie is it good practice to offer a safe use of ladder certificate to a candidate that only climbs small ladder once in deal conditions, or using a fake photoshopped  accident as an experience model on your course, are you going to address these issues before tackling others working practices.
  I feel I have covered all the points I need to raise on this issue and will oppose any cordoning off restrictions you plan to implement by law unless you can produce legitimate accident statistics that show a need for the change.
  
 

Bloody hell Trev lighten up mate your have a heart attack at this rate

Look I would not normally discus a candidate on a forum but as you have opened up the comments I will comment on your remarks about the ladder course

Did I over several workshops provide information on the safe selection, inspection and use of ladders
For the group you attended where these experienced
Do you guys not say don't tell us to suck eggs

On the day did Phil (trainer with over 30 years experience as a window cleaner) advised you not to climb a ladder two rungs at a time
Did i not inspect your ladders at the same time and advise I was shocked at the condition and that my recommendation was to cut them up

The training we provide is inline with others if not better

HSS when phil took his renewal certificate spent about 15 mins on practical
 
Our ladder training is on par with the FWC

Dont see you coming on here making comments about theirs.

Cant help like you Trev :]

[Andrew Willis]

£1300 for training one person !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that cant be correct surely

Got to laugh at this post

[windiewasher]

£1300 for training one person !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that cant be correct surely

Got to laugh at this post

Why laugh?
Its not funny and i think hes being very serious.

[Ian101]

£1300 for training one person !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that cant be correct surely

Got to laugh at this post

is it funny then ?

cant see punch line in there ?

[robertphil]

whats the "43"  stand for?

[Ian101]

The amazing andy willis and impact43 disappeared when their funding ran out as everyone knew would happen.  When not able to claim £1,300 of our tax money for each candidate, its no suprise at all that nobody would pay their own money for it.

thought I had seen it ... isi t accurate or not ... simple question really

[Ian101]

whats the "43"  stand for?

from what Ive read so far ..... stands for "Government funded with tax payers money gravy train" 

[Andrew Willis]

whats the "43"  stand for?

Training Four Three (43)

[Ian101]

aha my guess incorrect then