[SunShineCleaning]

I have 10 terraced jobs space out on one side of a road. they are all fronts and parking is difficult .
I park at the end of road and use full length of hose.  
Do I need a 100meter long mat. Only where it crosses the pavement

when I do job my aim is to do as many jobs possible each time I park. if its busy I make sure a cone can warn people.That's where our pricing differs. I price each job as a one off setting up and putting away

but the mat thing you say take 20 seconds how many times you do that a day. say for instance 15 times a day.No just 3 times today, as the photo's show I try to park on the property of the customer or next door
WC's generally charge £1 and a window takes a minute. so whilst grafting your generating £1 a minute.
every 3 mats lose you a minute/£1 so your 15 mats are losing you £5 a day. say due to lost days through weather and holidays you manage 200 days of work in a year you have lost £1k

time is money so don't make mountains out of molehills and still go over the top, yet don't cut corners.  

people can go insane with health and safety.  It  takes a second to walk over a hose then the risk is gone.  That second can make all the difference to a claim being put in and one not being put in
if you were working digging up the road with heavy loud machinery would you leave ear defenders out so people can pass safely with out getting a earache. There are regulations regarding the use of loud machinery in public places.

[SunShineCleaning]

The thing is that a yellow hose across a pavement is pretty stand out and visible. I would be willing to bet that statistically there is a greater chance of someone walking into your cone forest and tripping  than there is of someone tripping over a hose on the ground. I sometimes think that if people spent a little less time listening to scare stories.......

Even if that is the case, which I doubt, if it went before a Judge, which one would apear to have gone to greater lenghts to protect the public?

[SunShineCleaning]

Norman Wisdom does WFP.

I've been called worse.   

[Handyman Window Cleaning Services]

I have 10 terraced jobs space out on one side of a road. they are all fronts and parking is difficult .
I park at the end of road and use full length of hose.  
Do I need a 100meter long mat. Only where it crosses the pavement  it running up the pavment

when I do job my aim is to do as many jobs possible each time I park. if its busy I make sure a cone can warn people.That's where our pricing differs. I price each job as a one off setting up and putting away

but the mat thing you say take 20 seconds how many times you do that a day. say for instance 15 times a day.No just 3 times today, as the photo's show I try to park on the property of the customer or next door
WC's generally charge £1 and a window takes a minute. so whilst grafting your generating £1 a minute.
every 3 mats lose you a minute/£1 so your 15 mats are losing you £5 a day. say due to lost days through weather and holidays you manage 200 days of work in a year you have lost £1k

time is money so don't make mountains out of molehills and still go over the top, yet don't cut corners.  

people can go insane with health and safety.  It  takes a second to walk over a hose then the risk is gone.  That second can make all the difference to a claim being put in and one not being put in
if you were working digging up the road with heavy loud machinery would you leave ear defenders out so people can pass safely with out getting a earache. There are regulations regarding the use of loud machinery in public places.

It runs the full length up the pavement

[Andrew Willis]

The thing is that a yellow hose across a pavement is pretty stand out and visible. I would be willing to bet that statistically there is a greater chance of someone walking into your cone forest and tripping  than there is of someone tripping over a hose on the ground. I sometimes think that if people spent a little less time listening to scare stories.......

http://www.thompsons.law.co.uk/other-accidents/slip-trip-injury-compensation-claims.htm

[DG Cleaning]

My my isn't ciu having a slow news day?
However I'm bored so I'll join in.
We banned those types of mat when I worked in facilities for being a trip hazard.
Absolute rubbish I know but someone could come along while you're cleaning the back and flip the edge of the mat over creating more of a trip hazard.
These types of mat need to be taped or fixed to the floor.
The hose in all its brightly coloured glory is less of a trip hazard.

[CleanClear]

I agree and admire with the profesional approach view
Not sure thats to much ?
Does using a caution cone omits own advise the public  ...trailing hose, hazard of tripping over my hose,
Are you then not highlighting a hazard but not actually doing anything to remove or reduce the trip hazard?

Why not remove the risk

If you need to trail a hose over a public footpath what's the benefit to you by removing that risk by covering the hose with a good protection mat, also how long would it actually take to cover it in real time

There's a supposition here that a bright yellow 6/8mm hose here is infact a hazard. Just next to this hose will probably be an un marked kerb of maybe a few inches high presenting more of a hazard, grids, stop cocks, man holes etc , probably posing more of a hazard. I appreciate this may sound absurd. WHat if you park your vehicle half on half off the kerb? Forgetting the legalities is this a danger too ? Should you put cones and tape around your vehicle ?
If we start from the point of view that the hose is a hazard then yes we can say make it yellow, put a cone up, put a mat over it etc. However if we start from the point of view that a yellow hose is not a hazard, well we can just carry on, can't we ? Is a bollard a hazard? If the answer is yes then why aint they yellow? And how come they aint taped or cordoned off. And also what could be done to remove the risk from the bollard of people colliding with it ?

[ben M]

My my isn't ciu having a slow news day?
However I'm bored so I'll join in.
We banned those types of mat when I worked in facilities for being a trip hazard.
Absolute rubbish I know but someone could come along while you're cleaning the back and flip the edge of the mat over creating more of a trip hazard.
These types of mat need to be taped or fixed to the floor.
The hose in all its brightly coloured glory is less of a trip hazard.

totally agree

[SunShineCleaning]

I have 10 terraced jobs space out on one side of a road. they are all fronts and parking is difficult .
I park at the end of road and use full length of hose.  
Do I need a 100meter long mat. Only where it crosses the pavement  it running up the pavment

when I do job my aim is to do as many jobs possible each time I park. if its busy I make sure a cone can warn people.That's where our pricing differs. I price each job as a one off setting up and putting away

but the mat thing you say take 20 seconds how many times you do that a day. say for instance 15 times a day.No just 3 times today, as the photo's show I try to park on the property of the customer or next door
WC's generally charge £1 and a window takes a minute. so whilst grafting your generating £1 a minute.
every 3 mats lose you a minute/£1 so your 15 mats are losing you £5 a day. say due to lost days through weather and holidays you manage 200 days of work in a year you have lost £1k

time is money so don't make mountains out of molehills and still go over the top, yet don't cut corners.  

people can go insane with health and safety.  It  takes a second to walk over a hose then the risk is gone.  That second can make all the difference to a claim being put in and one not being put in
if you were working digging up the road with heavy loud machinery would you leave ear defenders out so people can pass safely with out getting a earache. There are regulations regarding the use of loud machinery in public places.

It runs the full length up the pavement

Then I would eliminate the need for the hose to be 100 yards on a  pavement, maybe by better parking arrangements.

[SunShineCleaning]

My my isn't ciu having a slow news day?
However I'm bored so I'll join in.
We banned those types of mat when I worked in facilities for being a trip hazard.
Absolute rubbish I know but someone could come along while you're cleaning the back and flip the edge of the mat over creating more of a trip hazard.Do you mean as a deliberate action?
These types of mat need to be taped or fixed to the floor. Not on building sites so why as a tempory measure?
The hose in all its brightly coloured glory is less of a trip hazard.

totally agree

[Andrew Willis]

My my isn't ciu having a slow news day?
However I'm bored so I'll join in.
We banned those types of mat when I worked in facilities for being a trip hazard.
Absolute rubbish I know but someone could come along while you're cleaning the back and flip the edge of the mat over creating more of a trip hazard.
These types of mat need to be taped or fixed to the floor.
The hose in all its brightly coloured glory is less of a trip hazard.

Agree with mat comment, as commented earlier in the post has taken us ages to find a suitable mat that will not curl up, heavy duty weighted and lays flat.

One comment I would like to make,

we have in the industry a trade association
FWC Federation of window cleaners
Why not get some of the members to ask the federation to make comment, this would not be the committee commenting but the FWC invest some of the member annual fee for them to buy in a good QC and ask for a sound legal direction
Basically what would a judge decide if someone trips
Is the colour of the hose sufficient
What do you really need to do to make the area safe
Also the FWC could then update their water fed pole safe working guide, and get a clear direction on what the industry should be doing

Just a thought

[SunShineCleaning]

I agree and admire with the profesional approach view
Not sure thats to much ?
Does using a caution cone omits own advise the public  ...trailing hose, hazard of tripping over my hose,
Are you then not highlighting a hazard but not actually doing anything to remove or reduce the trip hazard?

Why not remove the risk

If you need to trail a hose over a public footpath what's the benefit to you by removing that risk by covering the hose with a good protection mat, also how long would it actually take to cover it in real time

There's a supposition here that a bright yellow 6/8mm hose here is infact a hazard. Just next to this hose will probably be an un marked kerb of maybe a few inches high presenting more of a hazard, grids, stop cocks, man holes etc , probably posing more of a hazard.In which case if anyone is to be sued it will be the LA and not the cleaner I appreciate this may sound absurd. WHat if you park your vehicle half on half off the kerb? Forgetting the legalities is this a danger too ? Should you put cones and tape around your vehicle ?
If we start from the point of view that the hose is a hazard then yes we can say make it yellow, put a cone up, put a mat over it etc. However if we start from the point of view that a yellow hose is not a hazard, well we can just carry on, can't we ? Just because you asume the hose isn't a hazard doesn't mean it is not a hazard Is a bollard a hazard? If the answer is yes then why aint they yellow? And how come they aint taped or cordoned off. And also what could be done to remove the risk from the bollard of people colliding with it ?

[SunShineCleaning]

Debate is good!

It would be good to have a trade body that has the clout to find out definitive standards when working in public places.

[A-W-C]

A bit OTT 

[Handyman Window Cleaning Services]

I don't see any danger with a hose.  its always flat down I never allow it to stick up or anything that adds more risk.

just don't drag your feet when you walk.  

pedestrians should risk assess walking the street like I risk assess jobs. if I was walking down the street as I saw window cleaners working it would make me more alert and I would then notice the hoses as they are bright yellow. I would then think step over it.

when im window cleaning  I make sure who's about use a bit of communication if reeling up I keep check by looking up for and other hazards . to you my ways of running out hose may seem an hazard compared to your method, but I keep the risk down and controlled

[SunShineCleaning]

I don't see any danger with a hose.  its always flat down I never allow it to stick up or anything that adds more risk.

just don't drag your feet when you walk.  Wow that's harsh!

pedestrians should risk assess walking the street like I risk assess jobs. if I was walking down the street as I saw window cleaners working it would make me more alert and I would then notice the hoses as they are bright yellow. I would then think step over it.As opposed to what actually happens which is that the individual takes more notice of you and what you are doing rather than the floor.

when im window cleaning  I make sure who's about use a bit of communication if reeling up I keep check by looking up for and other hazards . to you my ways of running out hose may seem an hazard compared to your method, but I keep the risk down and controlledThat's the key I think, communication, I always engage the pedestrian and ask them to watch the hose.

I also wonder at the benefit of having a 'banksman' when doing jobs in the town. Just in case you get a blind pedestrian wander through.

I did some 'banksman' training on Saturday to do with my other life.

Having a second 'body' with you in town would be an excellent idea!

[MATT BATEMAN (OWC)]

There could be more chance of a person tripping on your mat than the hose.. The hose is flat to the deck and should be ok 

Anyone had a passer by fall over the hose reel just out of interest??

Had someone ride into my warning signs last week. Theres a thread about that on here.

[Handyman Window Cleaning Services]

a banksman is certainly needed when heavy plant is being used. I heard a story of a banksman who got smashed in the back by a JCB bucket. the JCB drivers vision of him was poor as a orange skip cast a background behind the banks man who had a orange hi viz on.

that guy was lucky to be alive.

all safety measures were in place but it all went wrong.

every one has their own risk controls on their rounds but with your if someone tripped on your mat and died you could roll them in the mat 'mafia style', but remember to bend your knees when lifting. 

all jokes aside, but most will agree to disagree about your mat.  You obviously like to keep tight your H+S procedure, when some will take stupid risks. to a degree your doing your self good, but IMO some is a little out of place, keep building site procedures on a building site.  I will never use a mat but there's times that I have tucked hose in gutter or road but then people can park on them.

when you said
As opposed to what actually happens which is that the individual takes more notice of you and what you are doing rather than the floor

remember curiosity killed the cat.
Any way most accidents happen when people are not paying attention, texting while driving or crossing a busy road.

on my side of thing if I don't pay attention to my surrounding I wont know how to assess a situation.

key is to pay attention at what you doing and this country wont have a suing cultre

[SunShineCleaning]

If anyone trips on that mat you will be sued.

Good point, has taken me ages to find the right mat we could buy and use on our workshops, thought it would be easy but all the mats I first looked at the mat was more of a trip than the hose, so answer was .......get the right mat, ours covers the hose, does not cause a trip hazard and does the job ....protects public from tripping over a hose.

The mats I have were really meant for reducing vibration in an internal environment near machinery.  They are quite thin though thus reducing the trip hazard.  Ironically, when I was doing some general cleaning in an office, one guy tripped over the yellow warning sign because he was reading paperwork while walking.  So it's not possible to allow for EVERY eventuality.

 

Sad but true, however you reduce your liability buy giving the warning.

[David Salkeld]

I agree and admire with the profesional approach view
Not sure thats to much ?
Does using a caution cone omits own advise the public  ...trailing hose, hazard of tripping over my hose,
Are you then not highlighting a hazard but not actually doing anything to remove or reduce the trip hazard?

Why not remove the risk

If you need to trail a hose over a public footpath what's the benefit to you by removing that risk by covering the hose with a good protection mat, also how long would it actually take to cover it in real time

There's a supposition here that a bright yellow 6/8mm hose here is infact a hazard. Just next to this hose will probably be an un marked kerb of maybe a few inches high presenting more of a hazard, grids, stop cocks, man holes etc , probably posing more of a hazard.In which case if anyone is to be sued it will be the LA and not the cleaner I appreciate this may sound absurd. WHat if you park your vehicle half on half off the kerb? Forgetting the legalities is this a danger too ? Should you put cones and tape around your vehicle ?
If we start from the point of view that the hose is a hazard then yes we can say make it yellow, put a cone up, put a mat over it etc. However if we start from the point of view that a yellow hose is not a hazard, well we can just carry on, can't we ? Just because you asume the hose isn't a hazard doesn't mean it is not a hazard Is a bollard a hazard? If the answer is yes then why aint they yellow? And how come they aint taped or cordoned off. And also what could be done to remove the risk from the bollard of people colliding with it ?

Absolutely, it's time us professional tradesmen were informed of the official line on HSE.
Thanks to Impact 43 we are getting some sort of guidance.
It's time the Fed should sharpen up and stand by us.