[Lee Burbidge]

What do you think? Do you know what it does? Are you for it or against it and why?

[Small but perfectley formed]

Looks the dogs but its a lot of money ,although ionics system are built to last.

[roundbuilder]

I donk know much about it but sounds it will keep tds down for much longer than a ppm machine. would it still need resin to get to ppb or something else??.

[Lee Burbidge]

I donk know much about it but sounds it will keep tds down for much longer than a ppm machine. would it still need resin to get to ppb or something else??.

It uses a higher grade resin called nuclear resin. The system makes water PPB in purity.... the water is more agressive and although you would not see much difference on regular residential work I have been told it is speeds up infrequent cleans.
Here is some info on it http://www.ionicsystems.co.uk/en/zero.php  Brodex also does a PPB system.

[cleartech Window Cleaners]

Have got the brodex one. Jut started seeing results on first cleans. Still the odd issue with drop marks but that's more the types of window and not the water. Ionics are charging ridiculous amounts for what pretty much amounts to a pro 5 with a uv light and a nuclear resin canister. Few bells and whistles can't surely be worth an extra 3-4k on top of what brodex are charging for their equivalent.

[Nathanael Jones]

Parts Per Billion systems offer no noticeable real world advantage at all in a window cleaning environment - the whole PPB thing is a huge pile of steaming marketing BS. Here's why:

For the sake of simplicity I'm going to use round numbers in this explanation - but do the math with your own TDS readings and see for your self.

I have a 1000 litre static tank, a tap TDS of 300 and for the sake of math, lets say I use water at 001 (I always aim for 000).

So - 1000 litres = 1000,000 (1 million) milliliters - with water 1ml = 1gram, so 1000 litres of tap water contains 300grams of dissolved solids - of which my RO & DI remove 299 grams.

Keeping up so far?? Lets try that math with a system kicking out 1PPB:

My 1000 litre tank still contains 300grams of dissolved solids, the fancy new system now removes 299.999grams of dissolved solids - nearly a whole extra gram!!

So - the PPB system actually removes 0.333% (One third of one percent) more dissolved solids from my water - - instead of 1000x better its actually 0.00333x better.

It is however 1000x better at telling you when you need to change your filters - so consumables on these systems probably make their manufacturers more profit,..


I know the marketing says "1000x purer" which is (technically) correct - but Ionics infer that this makes it better for dirty jobs/first cleans, that it offers noticeably superior cleaning power and will give more consistent results than a PPM system - all of which is ridiculous.

Its like everyone complaining that its -20C outside & they cant work,.. I come along & say "Don't worry lads - I have a solution that will stop your water going below -19.7C,.. tomorrow you're going to earn at least £500!".

Bull poop - Ionics should be ashamed!

[Lee Burbidge]

Parts Per Billion systems offer no noticeable real world advantage at all in a window cleaning environment - the whole PPB thing is a huge pile of steaming marketing BS. Here's why:

For the sake of simplicity I'm going to use round numbers in this explanation - but do the math with your own TDS readings and see for your self.

I have a 1000 litre static tank, a tap TDS of 300 and for the sake of math, lets say I use water at 001 (I always aim for 000).

So - 1000 litres = 1000,000 (1 million) milliliters - with water 1ml = 1gram, so 1000 litres of tap water contains 300grams of dissolved solids - of which my RO & DI remove 299 grams.

Keeping up so far?? Lets try that math with a system kicking out 1PPB:

My 1000 litre tank still contains 300grams of dissolved solids, the fancy new system now removes 299.999grams of dissolved solids - nearly a whole extra gram!!

So - the PPB system actually removes 0.333% (One third of one percent) more dissolved solids from my water - - instead of 1000x better its actually 0.00333x better.

It is however 1000x better at telling you when you need to change your filters - so consumables on these systems probably make their manufacturers more profit,..


I know the marketing says "1000x purer" which is (technically) correct - but Ionics infer that this makes it better for dirty jobs/first cleans, that it offers noticeably superior cleaning power and will give more consistent results than a PPM system - all of which is ridiculous.

Its like everyone complaining that its -20C outside & they cant work,.. I come along & say "Don't worry lads - I have a solution that will stop your water going below -19.7C,.. tomorrow you're going to earn at least £500!".

Bull poop - Ionics should be ashamed!

Awesome post dude....

[Lee Burbidge]

Who is thinking of going PPB?

[Frankybadboy]

come on,just ask how pure is pure and to what cost.!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Michael Peterson]

for under 200 quid you can get a 450 gpd ro and 30 stick a polishing unit after it, your water will be pure to clean windows and earn money everyday

[Ian Lancaster]

I think the point is how much dissolved solid must there be in the rinse water before the residue after drying is visible to the naked eye?

We use water up to 15ppm and there is no visible residue.

What else do you need?

[Smudger]

does it take a 1000 times longer for PPB system to reach 001 ?

if so i'm in  -  if not it's a crock of brown stuff

Darran

[CLEANCARE WC]

A fool and his money are soon parted!....

Now where did i put my wallet?

[Robin Ray]

The Emperors New Clothes.

[Stephen.C]

 Parts Per Billion,Not for me I will replace with Ionics ppm Hot system when required.
People are buying them as they have a 12 week lead time on new systems.
Nathanael Jones always slags off Ionics, what he fails to mention is the reason UV is required......?
its to remove bacteria, and that is in tap water and will eventually end up growing in your RO.
To give Nat his due's he is right on some Ionics knocking.

[simonr]

For the sake of simplicity I'm going to use round numbers in this explanation - but do the math with your own TDS readings and see for your self.

do the math?  why is everyone a yank wanna be nowadays

[Stephen.C]

For the sake of simplicity I'm going to use round numbers in this explanation - but do the math with your own TDS readings and see for your self.

do the math?  why is everyone a yank wanna be nowadays

  Very good.

[Frankybadboy]

Parts Per Billion,Not for me I will replace with Ionics ppm Hot system when required.
People are buying them as they have a 12 week lead time on new systems.
Nathanael Jones always slags off Ionics, what he fails to mention is the reason UV is required......?
its to remove bacteria, and that is in tap water and will eventually end up growing in your RO.
To give Nat his due's he is right on some Ionics knocking.

nat still waiting for you to get up in the loft and find your physics books.

[Nathanael Jones]

Bacteria isn't a problem unless its drinking water - even then you'll find chlorination is a more cost effective method of dealing with it & the super low concentration of chlorine used would barely affect TDS anyway.

UV is simply overkill for window cleaning - its over complicating a very simple & otherwise inexpensive process.

[Perfect Windows]

Bacteria isn't a problem unless its drinking water - even then you'll find chlorination is a more cost effective method of dealing with it & the super low concentration of chlorine used would barely affect TDS anyway.

UV is simply overkill for window cleaning - its over complicating a very simple & otherwise inexpensive process.

Bacteria CANNOT get through an RO membrane, so the output water is sterile.

Relative sizes:

If you blew up a water molecule to about an inch across, the impurities that an RO membrane strips out would be about an inch and a third across.  A typical bacterium would be about 100 YARDS across.

They simply could NOT get through.


I think UV is used on the water on the way in to kill them off so the membrane doesn't become contaminated.  Ignores the fact that UK tap water is chlorinated so sterile anyway.

Vin