[Dave Mills]

Utter balls

Congratulations on a well-thought-out and perfectly reasoned argument.  You have me convinced.

[Nathanael Jones]

Its surprisingly easy to fit incredibly strong anchor points to a van WITHOUT modifying the structure.

NEVER drill through the chassis, only make holes in non-structural elements (the floor for example)

All you need is to get brackets made up that go around the chassis members in a -|_|- shape with 4 big high tensile bolts going up through the van floor to a flat plate with a securing ring on top. Tighten the bolts & it'll hold the bracket to chassis member and provide you with an anchor point that cannot be moved without ripping the chassis in half.

Repeat this 3 more times, once for each corner of your tank and use four 20 tonne ratchet straps to hold the tank down,... simples.

Straps should be inspected regularly, tightened as required & replaced according to the manufacturers instructions.

[Ronnie Bryce]

Its surprisingly easy to fit incredibly strong anchor points to a van WITHOUT modifying the structure.

NEVER drill through the chassis, only make holes in non-structural elements (the floor for example)

All you need is to get brackets made up that go around the chassis members in a -|_|- shape with 4 big high tensile bolts going up through the van floor to a flat plate with a securing ring on top. Tighten the bolts & it'll hold the bracket to chassis member and provide you with an anchor point that cannot be moved without ripping the chassis in half.

Repeat this 3 more times, once for each corner of your tank and use four 20 tonne ratchet straps to hold the tank down,... simples.

Straps should be inspected regularly, tightened as required & replaced according to the manufacturers instructions.

Fuel tank, fuel pipe's, exhaust, spare wheel fixing, handbrake cable, shocker's and shock dampener's will alway's get in the way. It can be done on some van's, but it certainly is not simple by any mean's. On many, a Connect included, it just can't be done this way.

[Window Washers]

Its surprisingly easy to fit incredibly strong anchor points to a van WITHOUT modifying the structure.

NEVER drill through the chassis, only make holes in non-structural elements (the floor for example)

All you need is to get brackets made up that go around the chassis members in a -|_|- shape with 4 big high tensile bolts going up through the van floor to a flat plate with a securing ring on top. Tighten the bolts & it'll hold the bracket to chassis member and provide you with an anchor point that cannot be moved without ripping the chassis in half.

Repeat this 3 more times, once for each corner of your tank and use four 20 tonne ratchet straps to hold the tank down,... simples.

Straps should be inspected regularly, tightened as required & replaced according to the manufacturers instructions.

Fuel tank, fuel pipe's, exhaust, spare wheel fixing, handbrake cable, shocker's and shock dampener's will alway's get in the way. It can be done on some van's, but it certainly is not simple by any mean's. On many, a Connect included, it just can't be done this way.

there is no such word as can't most things are possible if you think it can be done.

[AS Window Cleaning]

very true. but it doesn't make something surprisingly easy then. and any modifications to a vehicle make selling it on more difficult (unless it keeps its use as a wfp system van).

[Window Washers]

very true. but it doesn't make something surprisingly easy then. and any modifications to a vehicle make selling it on more difficult (unless it keeps its use as a wfp system van).

I just took mine to a coach builders and got them to fit it, sod doing it myself again, cut knuckles a lot of sweating and getting dirty or pay about £100/£150 and get it done for you. No brainer really

[Ronnie Bryce]

there is no such word as can't most things are possible if you think it can be done

Ok, if you say so sunny Jim. I will believe that.

[lee_dewing]

I just took mine to a coach builders and got them to fit it, sod doing it myself again, cut knuckles a lot of sweating and getting dirty or pay about £100/£150 and get it done for you. No brainer really

that's cheap window washers what did they do to fit your tank?

Sorry don't know a lot about fitted tanks, reading all this with intrest.

[Window Washers]

I just took mine to a coach builders and got them to fit it, sod doing it myself again, cut knuckles a lot of sweating and getting dirty or pay about £100/£150 and get it done for you. No brainer really

that's cheap window washers what did they do to fit your tank?

Sorry don't know a lot about fitted tanks, reading all this with intrest.

I supplied the tank and custom made frame

they drilled the holes supplied the bolts and nuts and fitted it securely, I got receipt.
They know more than me and they secure a lot heavier things than my tank, so happy to pay it, also the other reasons I put up also play a factors because I am a tart

[Nathanael Jones]

On a connect/pug partner and many other small vans you'll need to drop the fuel tank to fit the brackets,.. its a bit of extra work, but by no means impossible.

On bigger vans its usually dead simple to do.

[lee_dewing]

Thanks window washers, money well spent there not a fortune and you saved yourself a weekend of stress 

[Scrimble]

local windy round here has two 200l sanky water butts ratchet strapped to the inside of his berlingo! he used to have a flat tank fitted upright and 1 water butt but has now obviously upgraded

[Spruce]

On a connect/pug partner and many other small vans you'll need to drop the fuel tank to fit the brackets,.. its a bit of extra work, but by no means impossible.

On bigger vans its usually dead simple to do.

Hi Nat,

One of the other problems with these 'car derived' vans is that the manufacturers put a plate over the footwell that would be used in the people carrier version to make the cargo floor level. So securing the front of the tank to a chassis structure is very difficult as the cargo floor and the footwell is seperated by a gap of about 200mm or more.

So on both the Peugeot Partner and the LWB Connect we fitted tanks to, the front was secured to this leveling plate with spreader plates underneath.

Spruce

[Nick Wareham]

the forces involved are higher than you might think.

its a simple matter of A-level maths and the equations of motion (brings back memories this)

Force = mass x acceleration

we know that the mass of say a 650 litre system is about probably about 680kg, but what is the acceleration? (or decceleration in this case)

the equation of motion to use in this case will be v=u+at where v=final speed, u= initial speed t=time and a=acceleration.

v(final speed) will be zero
u(initial speed) will be 30mph which is 13.41metres per second in SI units
t is the time.  I think its safe to say that if you had a crash into a solid object you'd come to a stop within quarter of a second, so i'm assuming this is 0.25

so, rearranging that equation to find the accelleration gives us:

(v-u)/t = a

(0-13.41)/.25 = a

so the acceleration a=-53.64 m/s/s

(its a negative number cos its deceleration, but the magnitude of the force is still the same)

so the force exerted by a 680kg load travelling at 30mph, and stopping in quater of a second is:

Force = mass x acceleration

Force = 680 x -53.64

Force = -36,475.2 kg

or 36.4752 tonnes, and that is only at 30mph

so your restraints need to be able to hold 36 tonnes.

My old maths teacher would be proud!
     

[H S and Son]

Interesting and revealing, thanks Nick

[Perfect Windows]

I like your solution, but rather than guessing the deceleration time, why not use v²=u²+2as?

Then the crumple zone size = s (=distance of deceleration)

If the crumple zone is 1m (generous, but possible)

Then v² = 13.4²
u = 0 (final velocity)
and s = 1

so 13.4²=2a

180 = 2a

a = 90m/s/s

And F = 61.2tonnes.

Even worse.

[Perfect Windows]

A quick look at, say, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMl-WQ5XkMI suggests 0.25 of a second is VERY generous.  And that my 1m crumple zone  is also VERY generous.

Looks more like 0.07 seconds on there.  So by your maths, about 140 tonnes.

Those straps (the ones meant to hold stuff on the back of a lorry from flying or rolling off) and bulkheads (the ones meant to stop small items hitting you on the back of the head when you brake) need to be pretty tough, if you ask me.

Vin

[[GQC] Tim]

If you do the maths, it's quite hilarious (in a morbid way) to see some of these DIY systems with little more then some straps going over the top. They won't be able to stop a tank from moving. But for some reason people insist that the forces involved are nowhere near that amount and that it's safe as can be. It's their lives, but you gotta feel sorry for their lack of comprehension.

[AS Window Cleaning]

and yet 97% of people (according to golds pole) have not personally heard of anyone whose tank has gone thru bulkhead or injured someone apparently.......

you'd have thought it would be higher with the amount of cowboys like me out there with our straps.....

[H S and Son]

If you do the maths, it's quite hilarious (in a morbid way) to see some of these DIY systems with little more then some straps going over the top. They won't be able to stop a tank from moving. But for some reason people insist that the forces involved are nowhere near that amount and that it's safe as can be. It's their lives, but you gotta feel sorry for their lack of comprehension.

It's because they strap their tanks in with ratchet straps, try to manually shift and they can't, understandably. They then respond witha smile on their faces with 'That ain't going anywhere' failing to realise that their strength is negligible compared to the forces created in an accident.