[Crystal-clear]

So having read this from start to finish...

The lad built up work to the value of over £100+?

He had only worked for you for 6 weeks?

My question/point is this...When did the guy start getting these new customers? they must have been over the space of a few weeks, so in effect the lad was embezzling money practically from the word go.

This is only what you know about,  I've had various staffing problems over the last few years and this guy building his own business off the back of yours could prove very costly indeed, I had an almost identical situation to deal with last summer.  The lad got fired.

ah 6 weeks isnt a good sign....

[GDwindowcleaning]

The simple lesson os to set ground rules from day one and warn all employees that you operate a zero tolerance policy. One break of trust and they are gone....

Works much better if everyone knows where they stand.

In my opinion people can change their spots but it is a rarity....

[GDwindowcleaning]

The other thing i dont like is how quickly people resort to threats of violence, it is no way to run a professional business. Its one of the reasons the industry is still tainted....

[stuart mc]

My family are all window cleaners, and employed a fair amount of lads over the years, nearly all commercial, well apart from me, I am mostly domestic, well maybe 60/40 domestic/commercial

my dad never gave a hoot if employees did house's on their own time, neither does my brother, but it was explained from the start it was their own kit and they were not insured.



When I did employ I couldn't care if my lad did houses on his estate in his own time, but again I explained he wasn't insured and the first time I got a call asking when I was coming to clean the windows he would be sacked, and made it clear he would need his own kit and ladder if he did do it, and I would not be responsible for anything he did in his own time

however in this case the guy took a van and couldn't drive legally, a big no in my books. he was using your van and equipment and probably your company name, so he was totally wrong, but you need to make clear from the start what is expected. I probably would have sacked him there and then, although I wouldn't have taken any money from him.

but to guy david who threatened violence and wrecked vans, you are a bampot, what did you expect after the guy took a van fraudulently, do you employ? you might feel differently if you did.

[GDwindowcleaning]

There has been more than him who have said violence is the way forward....

[stuart mc]

There has been more than him who have said violence is the way forward....

yes I know all nuggets

[GDwindowcleaning]

They seem to think it makes them look hard, its like still being at school.....

This industry needs to realise that being professional is much more important...

[Londoner]

There has been more than him who have said violence is the way forward....

I think this was aimed at me. I don't advocete violence but just observed that the sort of blokes that rule by fear are the ones who keep their workers on the straight and narrow. Otherwise I don't think its possible but it wouldn't be my way.

And yes there are people round here who would, not so much now but a few years ago there were several. You wouldn't want to cross them.

[Moderator David@stives]

What about staff being on the straight and narrow because they are nice people and have respect for their employer

There are more genuine people out there than you think

[tony atkinson]

Hi all sum good comments on this topic he has 1chance left if he brakes it he will b gone. in the new year he will b working with my top lad who has been with me for 6 years so time will tell and vilonce is not the way forward i could of gone down that route but it wouldent look good on my buisness also no good for my famly when i am inside doing 8years and they hav no bread and butter on the table also would lose evrythin i have built up over the years and then he would be laughing so kickin the poop out of him would not make me a winner ......i will keep you all posted on the out come thanks for the advice guys.............

[Ian101]

so long as he dont turn you top lad

[dazmond]

tony he will break it mate......and soon.you should of got rid.having read all the posts i would of not given him a second chance.i also wouldnt of took the money off him.

i had similar problems years ago with employees.in the end i just got fed up with all the hassle and now i prefer to work as a sole trader.im far happier and less hassle.


regards


dazmond

[Robert hawes]

say bye to him he wil do it again to u Tony if u want to look at him all the time put him with u u are the boss.
am happy what i got me and my step son thats all i got am thinking off putting a van 2 on the road next year thou

[A & J Owen Window Cleaning]

Personally, I would definitely have sacked him and done him a letter saying that you reserve the right to take legal action if you have any evidence of him deliberately targetting your customers. It'll show you mean business and I'd make sure other staff were aware of that also. OK it probably wouldn't pay to enforce it but he can't be sure.
As you've given him a second chance then I would give him a written warning explaining what you expect of him and saying any further problems would result in his instant dismissal. That will make the others think also.
Personally, as I'd only let him work with you - not any of your staff.
Good luck anyway, you seem like a good bloke giving him a chance and I hope he's worthy of it.

[H S and Son]

you reserve the right to take legal action if you have any evidence of him deliberately targetting your customers.

What law will this chap have broken for legal action to be taken against him for targeting customers?


I think you'll find that would backfire, it could be deemed to be a threat to prevent the lad from earning a living and THAT is against the law.

[A & J Owen Window Cleaning]

you reserve the right to take legal action if you have any evidence of him deliberately targetting your customers.

What law will this chap have broken for legal action to be taken against him for targeting customers?


I think you'll find that would backfire, it could be deemed to be a threat to prevent the lad from earning a living and THAT is against the law.

Everyone has a right to protect their business.
Where I worked previously there was such thing as a 'restricted customer'. That was someone that you had contact with ONLY because of your employment with that firm. You were not allowed to contact that customer for a period of 12 months after leaving. This wording was drawn up by a solicitor so was legal and could equally apply to any business. It formed part of the contract of employment which every employee had to sign.
This does not stop anyone making money in any particular area it only applies to customers which he has come into contact with as a direct result of working for his employer. You could work for all the customers in a street if you wanted to - but not one that you were introduced to by your employer. That is not stopping someone working or earning money and is perfectly legal.
Not sure if how many employers have contracts of employment on here but it was pretty standard wording from my experience in any business where the customer rather than a product was the main asset.
PS I am assuming that all of you who employ do have proper contracts of employment of course. If you don't cover such things then of course you can't do a fat lot!

[GDwindowcleaning]

Just because it was drawn up by a lawyer it does not make it legal, would be nearly impossible to bring to court if you left and then worked with that customer. It also woundnt guarantee that you would keep the customer as they have a choice who they buy from unless tied in to a watertight contract. There is only one winner in situations like that and its the lawyer....

I am sure even with a contract that if a window cleaning customer wanted to change companies that there is not alot you can do....

Its just business and it happens in every walk of life...

[Danny Guest]

Tony
Dont forget that taking the van is classified as theft.
TWOC - Taking Without The Owners Consent

The risks this lad has brought to your business especially if he crashed the van or damaged property when he wasnt covered or insured.
You would have been paying for his mistakes for years. I wouldnt have a second thought about hiring him again.

Danny

[Londoner]

What about staff being on the straight and narrow because they are nice people and have respect for their employer

There are more genuine people out there than you think

Yes but I am  far too cynical to ever admit that you may be right. Speaking as someone who fiddled and stole from every employer I ever worked for and everybody else I know just about has done the same. I am not going to be that quick to give anyone the benefit of the doubt.

[G Griffin]

What about staff being on the straight and narrow because they are nice people and have respect for their employer

There are more genuine people out there than you think

Yes but I am  far too cynical to ever admit that you may be right. Speaking as someone who fiddled and stole from every employer I ever worked for and everybody else I know just about has done the same. I am not going to be that quick to give anyone the benefit of the doubt.

Are you saying you're a thief, Vince?