[ashbash]

hes window through crimbo becos hes skint. tony get a grip
 

[Handyman Window Cleaning Services]

At £250 a week I'm not suprised he was doing extra work.

If you paid better rates you might get better behaved staff.

£250 a week is enough for a window cleaner you employ in my opinion.   an employee should not have the cheek to even use the van for personal use, not to mention run his own business running your own rep and image.

to take the money off him was right in my opinion too, he is on a set wage and if he wanted to work from your van on boxing day technically he is still working for you.

when you say no driving lic do you mean no licence, if so why are yu letting him drive

[Londoner]

This is standard routine stuff with staff, they always do it. You have to be nieve to believe otherwise.
This is why people who think they are are going to employ a few blokes and make their fortune need to get a reality check. There is nothing new or particularly suprising about this story. The only ones who keep their staff in check are the ones who will break their arms and legs with baseball bats if they find out.

Staff always take the p. Call my cynical

[Johnny B]

I agree Vince. That is why nowadays I always work solo.

John

[Paul Coleman]

At £250 a week I'm not suprised he was doing extra work.

If you paid better rates you might get better behaved staff.

£250 a week is enough for a window cleaner you employ in my opinion.   an employee should not have the cheek to even use the van for personal use, not to mention run his own business running your own rep and image.

to take the money off him was right in my opinion too, he is on a set wage and if he wanted to work from your van on boxing day technically he is still working for you.

when you say no driving lic do you mean no licence, if so why are yu letting him drive

£250 p.w.?
If the week is 40 hours that's £6.25 p.h..  That's only a tiny bit above minimum wage.  If bonuses are OK then that's probably acceptable as it would be a good idea to keep outgoings low during non work periods such as a freeze up.  Without the bonuses though it would be rubbish.

[Moderator David@stives]

Doesn't matter what you pay him he agreed the wage, theft is theft that is what he has done

The money is youts,It is Obtaining money by deception, dishonesty, theft.

It's your van, your tools, your trading name

[Roy Harding]

Tony,

Similar happened to me around 3 years ago with a couple of guys who worked for me, but it had been going on for a while, I eventually found out when a customer phoned me to say we'd left a bucket in their garden, but they weren't even on our list of customers.  They were earning £400+ every week with their bonuses but it obviously still wasn't enough for them.

You've done right, if he has been trading in your van and people think they are dealing with your company, then the money he has made is yours (possibly less his share for doing the work!)  Let him come to you for it then tell him you're contacting the police about him defrauding the company.

Things to do to prevent it happening again are:

- Keep the vans at a central workshop every night, don't allow them to take them home
- Move the teams around every month so that they do not have the same rounds every time
- Make sure you balance the sheets with the money at the end of every day
- Encourage people to pay by cheque or on line (take cash out of the equation)
- Send a letter out to all those people saying what has happened (I can send you a copy of the letter we sent out, it implies everything but says nothing libelous)

You've done the right thing, the two guys who worked for us said they were going to set up on their own and "take over all our business".  In the end they actually took only about 20 customers, mainly the elderly ones and I know they are making next to nothing.  

If you are going down the route of sacking this lad make sure everything for his dismissal is written down, give him the chance to put his side across before you wield the axe.  If you decide to give him another chance then make sure measures are put in place to stop it happening again

This is standard routine stuff with staff, they always do it. You have to be nieve to believe otherwise.
This is why people who think they are are going to employ a few blokes and make their fortune need to get a reality check. There is nothing new or particularly suprising about this story. The only ones who keep their staff in check are the ones who will break their arms and legs with baseball bats if they find out.


Tony

Ian and Vince have hit the nail on the head. Do you have an employment contract? with a restrictive part highlighting that no working using your equipment etc. I would have dismissed him as you did, but legally I was told by a solicitor that you only have the right to deducted stamp and tax from someone's wage.

Learn from it and tighten the gaps using Ian's suggestions, and contract of employment and if they come back saying the customer did not want it this time. Have a pre printed slip that the customer fills in with the reason there tel number and signature.

Roy 

[Pope vader]

i understand that dave,  but how do you know they came to this bloke becasue of his bosses reputation and he didnt just knock for them, as think this could get nasty depending on which way the bloke goes, he could claim that he got sacked for starting his own business and then had all the work stolen off him, by his exboss who threatened him to give him the work,   whats to stop him going back to them 8 custy and all the other custy and saying am starting on my own  do you want to come with me,  like they say  you dont own custys  

what if he takes it to a tribunal for unfair dismissle, he might not win, but could be a pain in the arse for him for a few months, plus costs him a lot more money in solicitor fees

[Londoner]

whats to stop him going back to them 8 custy and all the other custy and saying am starting on my own  do you want to come with me,  like they say  you dont own custys

This also is a pretty regular occourance. How many times must it have happened? The staff simply hijack the round and cut out the middle man. Very easy for them to do it, they are the ones with face to face contact. You are so very right when you say you don't own the customers.

Never let your staff read Animal Farm!

Thats why I have said in the past when you take on a member of staff you are taking on a potential rival. (at best) a snake in the grass (at worst)

[king marko]

It's called ambition - as long as he wasn't tapping up your customers I can't see the problem ?? Have you got custys on the rest of the street he was working? If hes gone out and got them on his own From canvassing whats the problem? It's in his own time and he had the good grace to park the van out the way on a different street - was he wearing your uniform at the time? If not then the only thing you can moan about is using your equipment and i reckon for a small fee that would be an acceptable payment
I say hats off to him for trying to better himself 
In future make sure that anyone who picks up new work is well rewarded 

[Ste M]

[/quote]
Never let your staff read Animal Farm!

[/quote]

superb book, Ragged Trouser is still my Favourite though

[PURER CLEAN]

well i am sorry to say i would have you court asap for stealing money of me,that money is not yours to take and i wouldn't blame him if he took you to the police or a industrial tribunal .
you should have taken say 20% for use of your tools

HAHAHAHA  I dont think you would do well doing that..... "See you in court for taking money off me, that i was working cash in hand for" hahahaha smart one 

[bumper]

what i did was to rent a round of a windy the work had not been done for 6 months i cleaned it,went back to the bloke who we were renting from and said you only have a couple customers left most have new window cleaner,give him the book back and started cleaning  them all my self still cleaning them 20 years on.
happy days 

[Londoner]

In my experience, (which is limited I admit) these things are most often sorted out round the back of the shops with baseball bats. Threaten to take most of these blokes to court and they will laugh at you. They don't give a damn about court because they know nothing can come of it . Whats the court going to do? say "you are a very naughty boy" Thats if they even bother to turn up, most don't. Its only a county court anyway.

[PURER CLEAN]

At the end of the day the custy will have who ever they choose to clean their windows.
but one thing i have found, is they dont like under handed / none trust worthy people.
honesty does pay........... this time 

[Londoner]

As far as most customers are concerned the bloke who has been turning up and cleaning their windows for the past year or more IS their window cleaner. Any arrangement they may have had with somebody else who they don't see becomes irrelevent. Thats if they even remember there was one

[tony atkinson]

Hi all its all been sorted now he has come round today and give me a list of houses he has picked up on my rounds also on the list was a nice little church in total £115 worth of work all in he seid he is sorry and knows hes f***ed up and he wont do it again i gave him is cash back he made yesterday.of the bit of work he picked up he will hav a extra £10 aweek in is wage all i ask for is honesty all my lads  are good workers and reliable just had a look what the lads are avregin each week and its not bad they are taken home £350 with bonuses and they are only workin about 33 hours aweek out of all my lads he is the first 1to go a stray i have six in total and they have all been with me for 6years apart for the 1 who done this yesterday he only been on books for 6weeks i must be doing sumthin rite to have the same lads for 6 years told him if he dus it again he will have no job at all he was on the dole for 2years before i giv him a start ohwell see how he is in the new year ....

[colley614]

Good on you Tony. Now you have given him a second chance he may be more loyal to you.

My first employer never used to mind us doing a few shops after we'd finished our days work. My second would sack you on the spot for it. I suppose different employers have different views. The fact that he was out boxing day cleaning windows proves to me he's motivated. Hopefully you can harness his energy to your benefit.

I think the fact that he lied to get your van and drove it without a licence or insurance to clean windows hes picked up behind your back is where I would be concerned. Although I think the cleaning windows thing is a slap on the wrist offence. These other things I think are very bad signs.  I'd put a bet on it that you have more trouble with him soon. I would also bet that your other lads will start disliking him very quickly. From what I've read he reminds me of a very dark person I have worked with before and if this is the case I wouldn't be letting him 'research' your company any further!

[Paul Coleman]

Hi all its all been sorted now he has come round today and give me a list of houses he has picked up on my rounds also on the list was a nice little church in total £115 worth of work all in he seid he is sorry and knows hes f***ed up and he wont do it again i gave him is cash back he made yesterday.of the bit of work he picked up he will hav a extra £10 aweek in is wage all i ask for is honesty all my lads  are good workers and reliable just had a look what the lads are avregin each week and its not bad they are taken home £350 with bonuses and they are only workin about 33 hours aweek out of all my lads he is the first 1to go a stray i have six in total and they have all been with me for 6years apart for the 1 who done this yesterday he only been on books for 6weeks i must be doing sumthin rite to have the same lads for 6 years told him if he dus it again he will have no job at all he was on the dole for 2years before i giv him a start ohwell see how he is in the new year ....

I think you've made a good choice.
I could be wrong be he may well end up being one of your best employees - possibly even a supervisor eventually.
There are plenty of precedents.
One of the more public ones that springs to mind was David Beckham after getting sent off against Argentina in a World Cup.  Some wanted to hang him by his nuts and never let him play for England again.  The manager made him captain - and a good one he was IMO.

[tony atkinson]

That what i was thinkin but time will tell he has done well since he started aswell never missed a beat just shows he is keen workin boxin day also told all my lads if they want set up on there own in the future go for it and i will giv them any advice i can ..