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Moderator David@stives

  • Posts: 8829
Re: how do you get away with it
« Reply #40 on: October 05, 2005, 10:26:12 pm »
solo

how long have you been window cleaning

rosskesava

Re: how do you get away with it
« Reply #41 on: October 05, 2005, 10:49:49 pm »
Hi Ian

The difference between ladders and wfp in terms of injury is that you can fall off a ladder.

I injured my neck about 10 years ago when I worked on the railways. I had to see an osteopath initially for that injury, which is long gone, and got a lifetimes treatment free of charge.

As a result I get a 3 monthly crunch. I also have followed all his advice and especially on one point which is appropriate and proper excercise.

Most RSI type aches and pains are due to not excercising and stretching those muscles that get used the most especially with a bad posture which most of us have anyway.

I think to relate back pain from carrying ladders to being pain free from wfp is a misconception. If you look at the mechanics of how wfp is used it is equally if not a greater strain on the back than carrying a ladder. It is a completely unnatural movement that is outside the bodies natural balance.

My mate who I work with suffered back pain from carrying ladders. He is happy now not to have to carry them. He is also not only forgetting that the causes of that pain are still there but are not being agravated, hence 'no more pain', but that mechanical problem with his back will at some point come back when using a pole because it is also a strain on the back. It may take a few years but it will come back.

Also,

Quote
And of course its nice to see someone cleaning the old way...y'know, nostalgic to look back on how we used to do it.

That I think is unworthy. Lots of w/c still use ladders and traditional methods and it is hardly Victorian is it. Or is it the us and them? This forum I thought was for w/c's and not the 'us' without the 'them'.

Cheers

I've added this later - I'm 10 years older than my mate. I'm 47 and have never had the slightest ache or pain from carrying ladders not even when we started. But from wfp - that first week was hell. By the end of it I could hardly turn my neck.

Sir Squeaky

  • Posts: 8341
Re: how do you get away with it
« Reply #42 on: October 05, 2005, 11:18:19 pm »
And cheers to you Ross!

They do think they're a bit superior.

The only poler around my area who turns over more than me is Ian, and that's because he's doing massive offices half the week.

I've picked up enough work from ex-pole accounts too!

There's room for both methods, neither is better, just personal preference.

rosskesava

Re: how do you get away with it
« Reply #43 on: October 05, 2005, 11:32:52 pm »
Quote
I've picked up enough work from ex-pole accounts too!

So have we. Loads of it. It's an on going arguement now with us because for some uppers - we now use wfp.

Quote
There's room for both methods, neither is better, just personal preference.

It is 'choice' isn't it. That seems to get forgotten doesn't it.

Cheers

Moderator David@stives

  • Posts: 8829
Re: how do you get away with it
« Reply #44 on: October 06, 2005, 12:37:41 am »
ross you have done over 1000 posts and have naver filled in your e mail  ;D

dave

kingfisher

  • Posts: 128
Re: how do you get away with it
« Reply #45 on: October 06, 2005, 12:49:02 am »
Any one out there suffering from back pain should take the advice of one of my 70 year old customers and buy the book “Treat your own back” by the physiotherapist Robin McKenzie.

I did and the book changed my life I no longer suffer from serious back pain if I feel a twinge coming on I start the exercise in the book and the pain goes.

I used to be in agony for weeks I’ve been pain free for years now.

poles apart

  • Posts: 664
Re: how do you get away with it
« Reply #46 on: October 06, 2005, 07:20:38 am »
I do a block of 140 flats in 5 hours! Used to take the ladder man 3 days!
No competition really.

poles apart

  • Posts: 664
Re: how do you get away with it
« Reply #47 on: October 06, 2005, 07:31:29 am »
Sorry should have said with 2 of us!

gaza

  • Posts: 1642
Re: how do you get away with it
« Reply #48 on: October 06, 2005, 09:29:05 am »
took my grandgchildre to see one off the wonders of the world in a museam,it was a man with ladders and a bucket with water in it.
I also wondered  how they used to do it? ;D

  [post of  the future]

  gaza


 only joking
IM AT THAT AGE MY BACK GOES OUT MORE THAN I DO

AuRavelling79

  • Posts: 23979
Re: how do you get away with it
« Reply #49 on: October 06, 2005, 04:53:32 pm »
took my grandgchildre to see one off the wonders of the world in a museam,it was a man with ladders and a bucket with water in it.
I also wondered  how they used to do it? ;D


And of course, there is still a place for a bicycle instead of those new-fangled horseless carriages!
It's a game of three halves!

rosskesava

Re: how do you get away with it
« Reply #50 on: October 06, 2005, 07:32:11 pm »
Quote
took my grandgchildre to see one off the wonders of the world in a museam,it was a man with ladders and a bucket with water in it.
I also wondered  how they used to do it? Grin

There's also something else that needs to be the same museum but isn't.

Cheers

[post of the future]

only joking

Sir Squeaky

  • Posts: 8341
Re: how do you get away with it
« Reply #51 on: October 06, 2005, 10:23:08 pm »
There's also something else that needs to be the same museum but isn't.

Graham?

rosskesava

Re: how do you get away with it
« Reply #52 on: October 06, 2005, 11:56:34 pm »
No... not Graham

He's in the future somewhere floating around.

I think these postings about wfp v trad methods depend not on the best way to clean the windows you are cleaning, but on point scoring quoting only those that suit the method prefered by the person doing the cleaning.

Today we done 16 windows with wfp in a fraction the time it took previously using traditional methods.

Today we also done 3 jobs that could never be done with wfp.

Why is there this battle between the ardent users of both methods?

Ian_Giles

  • Posts: 2986
Re: how do you get away with it
« Reply #53 on: October 07, 2005, 06:39:36 am »
Ross,
My tongue was very firmly in my cheek on that one post (I enjoy winding Roger up, including sending him texts to his phone ;D) Was a humorous post from beginning to end.
And bear in mind that this thread in particular is all about point scoring for one method or the other, and as such should not be taken to seriously.

All of us know that there are times when you still have to use trad methods to clean, and shoddy work can be done using both methods.

Roger is also wrong (he usually is where WFP is concerned ;D) once a month I have 3 good offices I do on the same day, and a 4th I do on the following day.
The first 3 I can do in 2 and a half hours, £180.
Pre WFP that would be approx 7/8 hours, but thatwould not have included the frames, this was always separate and more than doubled the time taken + it was almost impossible to get the windows spot on with trad methods.
Roger did the one office block many times when he worked for me and regardless of who cleaned it, there were ALWAYS noticable mistakes. Quite horrible glass to clean.
I now do it in way less time for far less effort, to a much higher standard.

My biggest boost in earnings comes from the £400 or so per month of domestic work I have I have picked up since going over to WFP.
Pre WFP I had dropped all bar 2 of the domestic accounts I had.

I do one account that Roger dropped because it wasn't worth his time cleaning it. Pulling up to driving away it takes me 15 minutes-£8.00.
Rog reckons he can do it at least as fast...but he still dropped it.
Very awkward with a ladder, access irritating, narrow path, sloping garden and 20 minutes not 15 a more realistic time with a ladder. you might well do it quicker, but you'll be going at full race pace to do it.
Whereas with WFP the pace is comfortable and sustainable all day every day.

This house has 15 windows, actual cleaning time is about 12-13 minutes.

An average window-1 opening light about 3ft by 8inches and 2 panes about 3ft bt 4ft will take you about 90 seconds to clean. Longer if you wash down all of the frames.
Time yourself from  the ground to up the ladder, clean and back down again, you'll find I'm not far wrong, and many of you will find that a struggle too.

WFP will take no more than 30 seconds max to do this window, and there is no ladder to climb first. Plus of course you have washed the frame down too.

If you are fussy then you will also have done a good job too.

That goes for both methods, trad or WFP.

Some of the work I have picked could be done just about as quick with trad, but its so much bloody EASIER with WFP.

I have mentioned a stand alone bungalow I can do in 10 minutes from pulling up to driving away. 16 windows, 3 full georgian doors.
You will not do that quicker with trad, and that is a bungalow (about 6 of the windows you would need a pointer to clean)

And I only have a handful of accounts where the angle I have to use the pole at could be considered high risk with regards injuring your back, and even on those, it is only one or two of the windows.
For the most part the movement is no more unnatural than using a sweeping brush.
How many of you, whilst squeegeeing a patio door will just bend from the waist to clean the bottom half of the door eh?
Now that is real bad news for the back, few of us will bend sensibly from the knees.

Look at the time!

I have lots of shops and offices to clean 8)

Ian
Ian. ISM CLEANING SERVICES

Re: how do you get away with it
« Reply #54 on: October 07, 2005, 02:19:35 pm »
I've just been out playing with my WFP, where I live, doing the neighbors for free.

At first I was getting tangled up in the hose; all fingers and thumbs; tripping over my trolley; soaking myself; knocking over plant pots and usings loads and loads of water.

But the windows are looking excellent; really shiny.

Some of my neighbors were 'new cleans' (I normally refuse to do them); so I did those twice.

I can't wait till I'm more competant; it seems far faster and it's definately EASIER than humping round a set of ladders all day and climbing up and down.  Not only that; the windows above the sloping porch could only be done safely using a Rojak ladder stopper.

But my WFP didn't know the difference.

The only downside I see is that I don't feel as macho without my ladders slung over my shoulder; in fact I feel a bit embarrassed being seen pulling round my trolley!

I'm sure I'll get over it.

I've a fairly tough area next week (Garden City for the Chepstow lads) and I've loads of awkward houses - with ladders that is; quite a few leaded too - so I'm looking forward to getting stuck in.

Solo Cleaning

  • Posts: 71
Re: how do you get away with it
« Reply #55 on: October 07, 2005, 03:57:33 pm »
solo

how long have you been window cleaning


Started in 1989 so probably due a career change soon (now aged 34)

Lee

dai

  • Posts: 3503
Re: how do you get away with it
« Reply #56 on: October 07, 2005, 07:16:33 pm »
Been over a month for me now with WFP I'm really impressed with the standard of work I can do with it. Still learning where to use it or use the ladder.
Had my first WFP accident today. A whacking great blood blister caused by letting the a section come down too fast and pinch my thumb. I'll learn.
But to get back to the orignal post. How do you get away with it?
Well I asked myself the same question when I see some of the prices the other guys charge. I'v been doing the job for years and am as good as anyone else. What I lacked was the bottle to go for the price. Am I envious of your higher prices?
Of course I bloody am, now at the age of 63 I'v found my mean streak. Being Mr nice guy doesn't pay the bills, havn't had a holiday this year either.
The wfp is making a big difference allready.Appart from losing half a stone my income is improving steadily. A big thank you to all you guys for all the good advice.
Without you I would still be trying to juggle a heavy ladder under all that washing, and taking those chances when working alone from drives sloping away from the house. Some times I had to use my car to foot the ladder.
So how do they get away with it? well they just do, for month after month and year after year, and laugh all the way to the bank. Dai

Re: how do you get away with it
« Reply #57 on: October 07, 2005, 07:41:14 pm »
It's my first day tomorrow with a WFP (tops only to begin with).

I hope I get away with it.

Sir Squeaky

  • Posts: 8341
Re: how do you get away with it
« Reply #58 on: October 07, 2005, 08:17:58 pm »
You do know it's saturday tomorrow Tosh? :D

Re: how do you get away with it
« Reply #59 on: October 07, 2005, 08:27:51 pm »
You do know it's saturday tomorrow Tosh? :D

There's nothing in the Queen's Regulations that states you can't work on a Saturday.

I'll not start to early!