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Dave Willis

Andrew Willis
« on: February 06, 2011, 12:19:48 pm »
Why do you post a vid of an old chap cleaning windows to criticize his safety methods and yet you've never posted any criticisms regarding the dreadful tank installations sometimes posted on this forum?

Does your health and safety course not cover this or is there no money in it? 

PAIN IN THE GLASS

  • Posts: 164
Re: Andrew Willis
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2011, 12:40:22 pm »
H/S dont cover wfp chaps they think they are the dogs u no wot... Yeah rite how many wfp chaps will be going at that age.
You always here of this broken or that broken on a pole then it's how much pressure, to use and how do I stop spotting. And bla bla bla  :)

DaveG

  • Posts: 6348
Re: Andrew Willis
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2011, 12:57:55 pm »
Never heard of anyone falling off a pole tho  ;)
You can't polish a turd

PAIN IN THE GLASS

  • Posts: 164
Re: Andrew Willis
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2011, 01:00:22 pm »
U might be rite there but i have heard of people tripping over hose's as well. So its works 2 ways ah.  ;)

♠Winp®oClean♠

  • Posts: 4085
Re: Andrew Willis
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2011, 01:39:12 pm »
Why do you post a vid of an old chap cleaning windows to criticize his safety methods and yet you've never posted any criticisms regarding the dreadful tank instillations sometimes posted on this forum?

Does your health and safety course not cover this or is there no money in it? 

Or multiple hoses laid across public causeways?

Or people using 80ft + poles when it's not recommended by the pole manufacturers?

Or people leaving ice rinks around properties in winter?

PAIN IN THE GLASS

  • Posts: 164
Re: Andrew Willis
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2011, 01:53:37 pm »
LOL... Somebody once put a thread saying TRAD= NEWBIE. I would say WFP=PPL WHO CANT CLEAN WINDOWS PROPERLY with all that spotting. Or they dont like heights. :)

telboy

Re: Andrew Willis
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2011, 02:35:09 pm »
LOL... Somebody once put a thread saying TRAD= NEWBIE. I would say WFP=PPL WHO CANT CLEAN WINDOWS PROPERLY with all that spotting. Or they dont like heights. :)

Same old same old
 ;)

mark blundell

  • Posts: 472
Re: Andrew Willis
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2011, 03:06:55 pm »
ladders should only be considered where a risk assessment has shown that the use of other more suitable work equipment  is not appropriate

taken from the hse website

more suitable equipment would be (WFP) (MEWP) (SCAFFOLDING) ECT 

http://www.hse.gov.uk/contact/faqs/heightreg.htm


Re: Andrew Willis
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2011, 03:12:34 pm »
Why do you post a vid of an old chap cleaning windows to criticize his safety methods and yet you've never posted any criticisms regarding the dreadful tank instillations sometimes posted on this forum?

Does your health and safety course not cover this or is there no money in it? 

I do cover the use of water fed poles

City and Guilds QCF Level 2
Working at height unit 220
Falling objects
Regulations 10 and 11
Where it is necessary to prevent injury, you must do all that is reasonably practicable to prevent anything falling.
If it not reasonably practicable, you must ensure that no one is injured by anything falling.

As an industry we have a huge problem with the use of poles
Being used without the correct controls in place

Sign up and you can see, do something about improving the industry 

http://www.training43.com/training-courses/high-level-window-cleaning.php



Re: Andrew Willis
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2011, 03:13:11 pm »
H/S dont cover wfp chaps they think they are the dogs u no wot... Yeah rite how many wfp chaps will be going at that age.
You always here of this broken or that broken on a pole then it's how much pressure, to use and how do I stop spotting. And bla bla bla  :)



I do cover the use of water fed poles

City and Guilds QCF Level 2
Working at height unit 220
Falling objects
Regulations 10 and 11
Where it is necessary to prevent injury, you must do all that is reasonably practicable to prevent anything falling.

If it not reasonably practicable, you must ensure that no one is injured by anything falling.
As an industry we have a huge problem with the use of poles
Being used without the correct controls in place

Sign up and you can see, do something about improving the industry 

http://www.training43.com/training-courses/high-level-window-cleaning.php

Dave Willis

Re: Andrew Willis
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2011, 03:14:22 pm »
No, Andrew just answer my question.

Re: Andrew Willis
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2011, 03:15:48 pm »
ladders should only be considered where a risk assessment has shown that the use of other more suitable work equipment  is not appropriate

taken from the hse website

more suitable equipment would be (WFP) (MEWP) (SCAFFOLDING) ECT 

http://www.hse.gov.uk/contact/faqs/heightreg.htm



And when the risk assessment identifies that controls require a ladder then those that use the ladder should be trained  ;)

Re: Andrew Willis
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2011, 03:18:54 pm »
Why do you post a vid of an old chap cleaning windows to criticize his safety methods and yet you've never posted any criticisms regarding the dreadful tank instillations sometimes posted on this forum?

Does your health and safety course not cover this or is there no money in it? 

I think I did apart from the old guy
Read between the lines
I was not really having a go at the old boy more having a dig at the attitudes and views of a small section of the forum
However let me ask you do you agree with his methods

Dave Willis

Re: Andrew Willis
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2011, 03:25:54 pm »
Doesn't bother me. If that's the way he cleans and has always done it that way then what's the problem? He's hardly going to invest in a wfp system at his age is he?
I have to access garage roofs sometimes even though I am wfp. No doubt you would love to ridicule me for doing it. Thing is it's my living. Very often If I don't climb the odd ladder then my family will suffer.
No, you didn't answer my original post.

Re: Andrew Willis
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2011, 03:28:01 pm »
Doesn't bother me. If that's the way he cleans and has always done it that way then what's the problem? He's hardly going to invest in a wfp system at his age is he?
I have to access garage roofs sometimes even though I am wfp. No doubt you would love to ridicule me for doing it. Thing is it's my living. Very often If I don't climb the odd ladder then my family will suffer.
No, you didn't answer my original post.
;D

Dave Willis

Re: Andrew Willis
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2011, 03:32:49 pm »
Well that's a really constructive reply.

Re: Andrew Willis
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2011, 03:40:37 pm »
Well that's a really constructive reply.

Sorry 

I am not really qualified to comment on water system installations
Craig Mawlam and the team at IONICS are the place to go
or Andy at Pure Freedom

I can comment on what the law says, from the point of use and the work environment etc and risk

I don’t recommend standing on garage roofs etc

Look I am not sure where you are from, how big your business is but I do suggest that you attend the City and Guilds we run

as its funded and will give you a lot of important information

 http://www.training43.com/training-news/article.php?id=778

 

Dave Willis

Re: Andrew Willis
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2011, 04:00:44 pm »
Well, it's time you pulled your finger out then. It's no good taking the pee out of ladder users on this forum and telling everybody to use an alternative method i.e. wfp when the alternative has no boundaries. I can potentially stick 100' of pole up in the air and hope to god it doesn't take off in the wind - there's no rules, I can stick 1000l of water in the back of my van with a bungy chord. I can spray water everywhere in sub zero temperatures, I can heat my water with gas, I can harvest legionarres disease if I want. The whole friggin health and safety aspect is a joke it really is.
You are no help to anyone on this forum other than to line your own pockets. The alternative to ladders has not been thought through - why not?

james44

Re: Andrew Willis
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2011, 04:04:03 pm »
Quote
As an industry we have a huge problem with the use of poles
Being used without the correct controls in place

Totally agree with this!

There are far to many wfp users not carrying out proper risk assessment!
You mention putting signs out and all you get is sod that it slows you down or is to much messing about!
Well wfp was recommended as a safer alternative not a tool to make you faster if the correct controls where put in place when using wfp then it would not be much faster than trad! Well it was never intended to be anyway!

Quote
H/S dont cover wfp chaps they think they are the dogs u no wot.

Yes they do it`s called risk assessment that far to many don`t take any notice of!

Darranvps

Re: Andrew Willis
« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2011, 05:12:32 pm »
I have to say that I like such threads

Somebody pushing his own business.

Others complaning.

Smart replies.

Heres mine.

Anybody using a ladder, who has been doing so for many years, is very unlikely to fall, however if they do it could be fatal.

Anybody using a ladder for the first time, is very likely to fall - and this is probably where most statistics come from.

I choose to use WFP because it is commercially viable, if I choose to use a ladder I feel I am competent to use one, I also feel I am more than competent to teach my staff how to use one - safely.

There are many wfp users out there that have no idea how to use a ladder or in fact traditional window cleaning methods, such as squeegee or scrim etc How they clean internal windows is anybodys guess, and I think that there should be no wars between wfp and trad, but if need be untrained against experienced.

WFP is just another tool, albeit a useful one, window cleaning is all about wfp, ladders, MEWPS, abseiling, cradle work, squeegees, scrims, chamois leathers and microfibre cloths etc

There is NO training course out there that will train a man how to clean windows safely, I have attended them all and what I can see is that many training companies fail to train, but try and show videos how amatuers have fallen/tripped/slipped etc.

How can anybody teach window cleaning in a classroom?
How do you get trained to drive a car? In a classroom? No you get trained in the car.

I think it is time that there was a training course, where trainees learn how to clean windows safely and economically. Not just a course to earn the trainers money inside a classroom.

If anybody would like to learn safely, you cannot beat gaining experience from window cleaners who have been cleaning windows for twenty years or more, go and work for one for six months and you won't go far wrong.

Sit in a classroom on a training course and you could end up in serious difficulties when you go out into the big wide world and come up against something that you think you have been trained to do.

To all training companies out there.
YOU COULD DO MUCH BETTER - PROVIDING YOU THINK ABOUT THE WOULD BE WINDOW CLEANER - INSTEAD OF YOUR OWN WELL BEING.

Most of the companies who have trained me, have in my opinion had far less experience than me, and others in the classroom. They have passed on to newbies, information that the newby may find useful, but might not be correct.

Regarding "footing" a ladder - three seperate courses with three seperate companies have explained how to foot a ladder three seperate ways - WHO IS RIGHT? There needs to be a set industry standard.
BWCA vs IMPACT 43 for example, one of you is wrong and one of you is correct - IN MY OPINION, however according to another ladder trainer - BOTH OF YOU ARE WRONG. Again my opinion only but BWCA gives out some very DANGEROUS advice regarding this, and they are recieving good money for this.

If anybody would like to know more, please contact me, I have only gained 26 years experience, taught to me by guys who have cleaned windows for up to 50 years.
You can always pay fees for a nice badge or a certificate (where they spell your name wrong) with the hope that A customer might care.  You will spend a lot of time sat in a nice warm classroom learning somebody elses theories - but you won't really know if you are being taught correctly or not.