[trevor perry]

I have to say that I like such threads

Somebody pushing his own business.

Others complaning.

Smart replies.

Heres mine.

Anybody using a ladder, who has been doing so for many years, is very unlikely to fall, however if they do it could be fatal.

Anybody using a ladder for the first time, is very likely to fall - and this is probably where most statistics come from.

I choose to use WFP because it is commercially viable, if I choose to use a ladder I feel I am competent to use one, I also feel I am more than competent to teach my staff how to use one - safely.

There are many wfp users out there that have no idea how to use a ladder or in fact traditional window cleaning methods, such as squeegee or scrim etc How they clean internal windows is anybodys guess, and I think that there should be no wars between wfp and trad, but if need be untrained against experienced.

WFP is just another tool, albeit a useful one, window cleaning is all about wfp, ladders, MEWPS, abseiling, cradle work, squeegees, scrims, chamois leathers and microfibre cloths etc

There is NO training course out there that will train a man how to clean windows safely, I have attended them all and what I can see is that many training companies fail to train, but try and show videos how amatuers have fallen/tripped/slipped etc.

How can anybody teach window cleaning in a classroom?
How do you get trained to drive a car? In a classroom? No you get trained in the car.

I think it is time that there was a training course, where trainees learn how to clean windows safely and economically. Not just a course to earn the trainers money inside a classroom.

If anybody would like to learn safely, you cannot beat gaining experience from window cleaners who have been cleaning windows for twenty years or more, go and work for one for six months and you won't go far wrong.

Sit in a classroom on a training course and you could end up in serious difficulties when you go out into the big wide world and come up against something that you think you have been trained to do.

To all training companies out there.
YOU COULD DO MUCH BETTER - PROVIDING YOU THINK ABOUT THE WOULD BE WINDOW CLEANER - INSTEAD OF YOUR OWN WELL BEING.

Most of the companies who have trained me, have in my opinion had far less experience than me, and others in the classroom. They have passed on to newbies, information that the newby may find useful, but might not be correct.

Regarding "footing" a ladder - three seperate courses with three seperate companies have explained how to foot a ladder three seperate ways - WHO IS RIGHT? There needs to be a set industry standard.
BWCA vs IMPACT 43 for example, one of you is wrong and one of you is correct - IN MY OPINION, however according to another ladder trainer - BOTH OF YOU ARE WRONG. Again my opinion only but BWCA gives out some very DANGEROUS advice regarding this, and they are recieving good money for this.

If anybody would like to know more, please contact me, I have only gained 26 years experience, taught to me by guys who have cleaned windows for up to 50 years.
You can always pay fees for a nice badge or a certificate (where they spell your name wrong) with the hope that A customer might care.  You will spend a lot of time sat in a nice warm classroom learning somebody elses theories - but you won't really know if you are being taught correctly or not.

 good post rhinoman, at last someone who lives in the real world

[Darranvps]

I just came back from the Pub and felt inspirational

[PAIN IN THE GLASS]

Doesn,t matter wheather you are windy, security guard, there is always and will be someone saying we need to put some legisation to be a windy so they can make money out of us. SIA done same with security guards. Experience out ways most pen pushers sitting in a warm office doing f all. And soon as they go out in the cold they catch one there selfs. There is more accidents now with all this red tape and h/s than there was ten years ago. Every body has a brain so use it.
And give these pen pushers the elbow.

[G Griffin]

Yes, it was a very good post Rhinoman.
I don`t always think that about your posts, so it must be the drink  .
But it was spot on.

[Darranvps]

Yes, it was a very good post Rhinoman.
I don`t always think that about your posts, so it must be the drink  .
But it was spot on.

Thanks

[Andrew Willis]

Yes, it was a very good post Rhinoman.
I don`t always think that about your posts, so it must be the drink  .
But it was spot on.

Thanks

Give us a call ....Andy 

[steve rix]

Rhinoman, that is the BEST post I have seen on this site. Well thought out and put.
Ive been using ladders and training my staff for 15 years and never had an injury.
It is all down to experience and on the job training

[windiewasher]

andrew willis has left the building

[Darranvps]

Please don't understand me wrong, my thread was not about having a go at Andy or any of the other training centres.

I feel very strongly about training and I am all for it, I would however like to see window cleaners being trained - properly.

I am sure that with Andys connections, a suitable training course could be designed with fully training the window cleaner in various aspects of the job.

Here is what I would propose if I were creating a training programme for window cleaners.

Day 1 - Morning -Introduction to health and safety regarding window cleaning in general, Afternoon would be to discuss different types of window cleaning using different methods both for cleaning and access. Explanations about what types of tools are available and what equipment is available for access.

Day 2 - Morning - basic window cleaning skills would be taught, how to correctly use a squeegee for both inside windows and outside ones. Which type of cloths to use when cleaning internal Georgian or Leaded windows.  Afternoon - low level waterfed pole training up to 10 metres high.

Day 3 - Morning - introduction to window cleaners ladders and how to use them safely, explaining types of ladders and safety devices that can be used with them.  Afternoon, practical use of ladders, teaching how to hold, put in place and climb them safely. Finishing off by cleaning 10 windows using a ladder.

Day 4 - Morning - introduction to MEWPS and their types (not to be confused with IPAF training which should be undertaken seperately) Safety Harness introduction and where to use them.
Afternoon - Demonstration of window cleaning using a mewp. Demonstration of cleaning windows using eye bolts.

Day 5 - Morning - introduction to using a cradle, explaining different types and how to use them safely. Afternoon - practical window cleaning using a cradle for access.

Day 6 - Examination both written and practical on all of the above.

Other modules could be added such as - Rope access for window cleaners, high level window cleaning above 10 metres by using WFP etc

My advice would be to go on any training that you can afford as you will ALWAYS learn something new.

Advice for the training companies - its good to compete against each other, but training needs to be standardised by all of you, so contradictions are avoided.

[Darranvps]

Rhinoman, that is the BEST post I have seen on this site. Well thought out and put.
Ive been using ladders and training my staff for 15 years and never had an injury.
It is all down to experience and on the job training

Steve where you based?

[joewright]

andrew willis has left the building

Driven out

No Surprise Andrew Willis Offers training which rivals the Ionics window cleaning school
 :

[ronnie paton]

Rhino man YOU should offer training.

when i get new employees i hate the training but what you covered seemed everything that needs to be covered(more than i cover)

[Darranvps]

Ronnie

Apart from not having the time, I wouldn't want the responsibility - imagine giving wrong advise and somebody hurting themselves or worse.

Its OK training your own staff - which could end up being bad if something happened, but others who you don't know their skill levels etc  could be tricky.

Far better for the training companies to risk their own necks by training people and taking away the burden from us when THEY train our staff.

[mark dew]

Very comprehensive. That type of course would be very good to attend. 

[Lee Burbidge]

WCM interviews Andy Willis : subscribe for free www.windowcleaningmagazine.co.uk

[windiewasher]

oh everyones hero!

WCM interviews Andy Willis : subscribe for free www.windowcleaningmagazine.co.uk

[CLEANCARE WC]

WCM interviews Andy Willis : subscribe for free www.windowcleaningmagazine.co.uk

your like salt in a wound

[idealrob]

Some very bitchy comments towards Andrew willis, i for one like the traing and what impact 43 offer, if you dont like it , dont go on the courses, it cost my company nothing, covers me, and helps me keep 6 figure contracts, not getting involved with the ladder muppets, but a big thankyou to Andrew, and all that he offers, after 30 years experience, and now running a company that has been running for over 55 years, i am grateful for all the help impact has giving us a company, and all free to my company, and still the muppets moan, as for the idiot who goes on garage roofs, what a nutter, its illegal, and does not comply with WAHR, just hope one of his employees goes up , and takes him to the cleaners at court, get a life lads, have you never seen the shattered lives hse adverts

idealrob

[Lee Burbidge]

oh everyones hero!

WCM interviews Andy Willis : subscribe for free www.windowcleaningmagazine.co.uk

oops