[David Rogers]

Hi,

Firstly, I know this topic may generate some 'can of worms' points, possibly disinterest, possibly blanket views like "dry carpet cleaning is not deep cleaning!" but I'll go for it anyway.

Are there any active members here who provide only dry or very low moisture carpet cleaning services?   It's been playing on my mind for a while to think about going down this route.  I know some people will not deem it as a deep clean but I am doing more and more dry carpet cleaning business and I have really honed my skills and methods in this area.  Yesterday a friend of mine came over for a cycle ride and brought me some spare carpet over as he regularly does (to mess up and do fun things with!).

I wanted to try out one of the types of tests you see on You Tube (yes I know some are very dodgy) so I put some masking tape down the middle and I done my best ever dry job on one side (thorough vacuuming, my latest pre-spray formula for dry, then a good session with the Envirodri GEN4, then the sponges, then the GEN4 again, then the vacuum)....... on the other side I vacuumed just as thoroughly, then presprayed with Prochem Trafficlean, agitated with my brush after a dwell, then Hot Water Extracted, using Prochem Extraction Plus.   The results were really conclusive; the 'dry' cleaned side was brighter, fresher and although both sides were completely clean, the carpet on the 'dry' side just looked newer. The colours were vivid and deeper; it looked restored whereas the HWE side looked clean but a bit flat.

I realised that the lifting of the pile that you get with the GEN4 is a massive factor is the overall appearance of the treated carpet.  Clearly using the GEN4 also maximizes the effectiveness of the pre-spray phase.   I'm not bashing HWE here or claiming that dry is the new saviour. What was interesting is that I got the opposite result that I was expecting; I had told my mate in advance that the HWE side would look better as it's a deeper clean but objectively, there was absolutely no contention that the dry side looked strikingly better.    My mate concluded that "if the dry looks like that and there's no drying time, it's a bloody no-brainer".

The carpet was a grubby mid-70s Axminster. No real stains as such but lots of grease and dirt.

So I feel I am personally at a crossroads; whether to stay as I am or whether to change my entire business and marketing strategy to become one of the dry only operators like 'bone-dry' or 'zero dry time', selling my two portable HWEs and re-investing the money in more dry kit.   Alongside dry compound I would certainly retain my rotary too as an alternative for heavier stain busting work.

I'd love to hear any (constructive) views or especially to hear from anyone here that runs a dry only model.

Cheers.

[Paul Redden Countryfresh]

I'm mainly dry when its not raining 

Joking aside I noticed that Ep plus @ 100-1 is ph 9, although this has brighteners any carpet
left in an alkaline state will dry dull looking. A test with the F&F rinse would be a better comparison.

How would you do draught marks or stairs?

May I ask what your pre-spray is?

Regards Paul

[from edge2edge]

David quite simply do both.Have 2 websites and 2 sides to your business.I have www.drycleancarpets.co.uk and a steamway 9100lx(along with a thermadry system too)so there is no need to be one or the other.If you are convinced by DRY then promote it as much as possible.The downside is the cost of the sponges so when people say they want it to be DRY straight away lots of them dont want to pay the extra cost.Regards Alan Turner(swindon)

[james roffey]

I also offer the Envirodri system but rarely use it, what i have found with the granules though is that no matter how much you vacuum some remain in the carpet which is not a problem until you clean a deep pile plain coloured, especially if it's a striking colour i have done a deep red coloured carpet and green and i must have spent an hour on one room just vacuuming  even after this when i got the carpet groomer out i was still able to bring up some of the "microsponges" from the base of the carpet, the other green carpet i did i got my first call back because after the customer walked across it a few times the "sponges" flicked up from the base again and were really visible.
I have only experienced this problem with carpets that show up the "sponges" and not on patterned carpets but it shows to me that even with a thorough vacuum you cannot remove them all.i even went back over with the gen 4 to pull up any loose "sponges" the results are pretty good though but not convinced of spot and stain removal ability.

[jasonl]

I am LM only , I also know half a dozen near to you  who are too , they all make an excellent living.

[David Rogers]

Thanks for the comments.

Alan, you raise a very good point about 'just do both' ; that is exactly where I am at the moment and to be fair the old adage "why fix it if it ain't broke" could be applied.  The issue for me is that I offer 3 methods of carpet cleaning, guaranteed to be the same price. This gives me a USP of being able to say to customers that I'll turn up with the kit to use 3 possible methods and advise on the best method for the job.  It works really well as a marketing approach and customers like it - but I'm bloody sick of humping a portable HWE, the GEN4, a Numatic Rotary, an Oreck Orbiter, and all sets of chems to every job! 

You're absolutely right that chem costs are higher on dry compound compared to HWE. Although I find them lowest on Bonnet cleaning (or low moisture rotary as I prefer to call it  ).   James - I haven't really had that problem with the compound before, although I do agree that in general, the post-clean vacuuming can be a bit hellish and long-winded when doing an Envirodri clean.  I honestly can't ever say I've seen sponges left in the carpet though; and I've never had a customer calling back about left sponges.  I find that if I spend as long on the GEN4, before putting the sponges down, it pays dividends for when you're later getting them back up.  If I don't use the GEN4 before putting sponges down, they are harder to get all back up.

As an aside, it does make me laugh when you watch the Host videos and they talk about how nice it is without 'the mess from water' ; all the dry compound methods are THE messiest form of cleaning carpets!   The sponges can get everywhere, although with practice they can be contained.  The cleaning of the GEN4 is also quite hairy; I find I need to spend 30 mins cleaning it per 3 hours of use; that's quite a lot of time. 

I think ultimately, Alan is right, the best thing to do is probably to keep both sides but focus my marketing on the side I'd prefer to be working in.  A Thermadry would be lovely; hardly any set up, light work, good results, fast dry, and little after-clean of the machine. It may well be my next toy on the list.   

Dave.

[garry22]

David,

I've got HWE, Dry Fusion and HOST and use all three.

I would advise against selling off your kit unless you really NEED to. You may get a contract where tou need different approches in different areas.

The idea of separate marketing above is a good one.

We used to have someone near us who was a guttering specialist, a facia specialist, a window specialist and a few others. All had separate adverts in Yellow Pages (in the good old days when it was really popular)

[David Rogers]

Cheers Garry.

I think the key motivation for me here was either laziness, or the desire to simplify, or a bit of both. 

[Chris Small]

I use only Host and find in the main it gives good results, although have walked away from a couple of jobs because I knew it would not bring the real mingers up.
Thinking of buying a small spotter purely for stains but not really come across that many to justify yet.
Tend to advertise more to b&b's etc where they don't have time to wait for a carpet to dry and after 2 years now am getting repeats building up.
Can anyone recommend a good machine for spots and upholstery? Use the Aridex now with the harder brushes but sometimes it just doesn't cut the mustard.

Chris
ecocarpetcleaning.net

[cannon]

Thanks for the comments.

 but I'm bloody sick of humping a portable HWE, the GEN4, a Numatic Rotary, an Oreck Orbiter, and all sets of chems to every job! 

You could always sell me the Oreck Orbiter 

[derek west]

from what my customers have told me, shake and vac cleaning gets good results at first but slowly get worse and worse on every visit, come across this a few times, guess its the slow build up of left granuals.

[David Rogers]

I use only Host and find in the main it gives good results, although have walked away from a couple of jobs because I knew it would not bring the real mingers up.
Thinking of buying a small spotter purely for stains but not really come across that many to justify yet.
Tend to advertise more to b&b's etc where they don't have time to wait for a carpet to dry and after 2 years now am getting repeats building up.
Can anyone recommend a good machine for spots and upholstery? Use the Aridex now with the harder brushes but sometimes it just doesn't cut the mustard.

Chris
ecocarpetcleaning.net

Hey Chris - I agree on Aridex. Bought one a week ago from Ian Monk (CleanMachine) and it went back yesterday; great on mildly soiled but I found the lack of heat comprimised it on heavier soiled suites..... just going to use HWE on suites now as my new Turbo Dryers arrived yesterday.

For a small, handheld spotting HWE machine I would recommend the Prochem Bravo, or even smaller Prochem Spot Pro.   Both excellent machines but a bit expensive at around £500-600.

Still if you're using mainly dry, they will be excellent on specific spots and problem stains that the HOST can't get up on it's own.

Clean Machine also do a CFR spotting machine for £475.  It's towards the bottom of this page:-

http://www.machinesthatclean.com/Carpet_Cleaners.htm

Don't know much about it but seems a similar size and spec to the prochem spot pro.

Cheers,

David.

[David Rogers]

You could always sell me the Oreck Orbiter 

Heh heh........ that little beauty will be the last machine I ever sell!   

[David Rogers]

from what my customers have told me, shake and vac cleaning gets good results at first but slowly get worse and worse on every visit, come across this a few times, guess its the slow build up of left granuals.

Derek - I've found all of your posts credible and worth a read since I joined here, til that one.  ..... only jesting. But 'shake n vac' ?     Does that mean your truckmount is basically just a big karcher petrol washer (on steroids) 

I really don't 'get' this thing about the dry compound getting 'left' in the carpet. Couldn't exactly the same be said about residue from Extraction fluid/powder? Are you guys using a rinse / ph neutralizer on EVERY hot water extraction?... yeah right    I'm going to stick my neck out here and say that anyone who isn't getting all of the dry compound out isn't doing the process correctly; the only things I can see that would cause dry compound to be left behind are; too much prespray (saturating the compound), insufficient vacuum performance, insufficient patience (to do the post compound vacuuming with very slow vacuum strokes), or perhaps poor planning (forgetting where you've put the compound then leaving it!   Even using too much compound shouldn't cause it to not come up.

[derek west]

sorry dave,, i mean no offence by the term shake and vac. its just how i call it. martin 606 is your shake low moisture man. think he's been doing it for years, not sure if he wears a flowery skirt though when he's laying down the granuals.

[David Rogers]

Seriously no offence taken Derek    ...... I don't offend easily, and likewise I enjoy a bit well-spirited jesting.

Let's see if Martin606 comes along then and what he reckons about all this shake n vac business.    Actually, if I'm honest, the first time I ever saw and became aware of dry compound cleaning I saw it being done with a Sebo Duo and my first impression was "that just looks like shake n vac being rubbed in with a carpet sweeper"   

 

[Chris Small]

Thanks David,
that's just what I'v been looking for!

Chris
ecocarpetcleaning.net

[jacko]

I have done dry compound cleaning alongside HWE since starting up 6 years ago. I probably get 10 jobs a year for it. Good results are obtained by pre-misting with microsplitter. After working the sponges in (with envirodri) the dwell time is important - at least 20 mins. I vacuum with Sebo BS36  which is handy for the edges, then finish off with my Kirby.  To be fair  i would not ever select this method unless it was driven by customers wishes.

[David Rogers]

Pretty much the same equipment / approach as myself, Jacko. Your absolutely right about the dwell time. I think Envirodri need a longer dwell than HOST sponges but dare I say the end result is worth it / better, in my experience.

[Joe H]

The dwell time with sponges should be so they are dry.
Thats the whole point - when you leave the premises the carpets are dry.

How you going to vac out when the sponges are still wet? They going to be more difficult to remove if they are still wet, and of course its dangerous to suck up wet with a vac not designed for wet.

If you are going to prspray with Nemesis, M-Power, microsplitter etc you must ensure you dont apply too much or the sponges will never soak it up and then you are leaving soiling in the carpet.
So prpespary is a MIST, aggitate it well BEFORE applying sponges, then aggitate well after applying sponges.