Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Perfect Windows on February 20, 2025, 04:06:16 pm
-
Finally picked it up. Popped up to Glasgow yesterday to collect the new van.
Drive home was long - kept the speed at 60mph to keep the range up but still had three charge stops of about 35 - 45 minutes each to cover the 440 miles. All the chargers worked exactly as expected bar the top up at the start of the journey in Glasgow at a Tesla dealer where it ran at 1/3 expected charge rate. Gave me plenty of time to read the van manual at least.
Van lovely and quiet (I mean astoundingly quiet) so I arrived home late but pretty much OK. Bar the next week or two, that should be the last time I ever have to use public chargers. Home charger going in shortly.
Received an insurance quote from A Plan - as expected, roughly a third more than the diesel, which will wipe out the savings on fuel.
Wife taxed the van while I was driving - £0.
Astounding pickup when you put your foot down. Interested to see what that'll be like once it's carrying the best part of a ton of equipment.
Next step, install everything but the tank ready for the switch over.
(https://i.postimg.cc/13fCF81W/20250219-113043-Blur.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/DS3PkyZs)
Vin
-
Good to hear it all went well. I told you the torque was addictive :-)
Interesting camera stuck on the front!
Let us know how you get on installing the kit.
Is the insurance 30% more than a diesel same year and milage or just compared to your old van?
-
Good to hear it all went well. I told you the torque was addictive :-)
Interesting camera stuck on the front!
Let us know how you get on installing the kit.
Is the insurance 30% more than a diesel same year and milage or just compared to your old van?
That's a good point that I hadn't considered. It's 30% more than a 19-yo diesel with 157,000 on the clock and worth 28p.
If you look, there are also two cameras on the sides and there's one looking back that you can't see in the pic. They all go to a seriously professionally fitted hub that I suspect has a hard drive in it. I have the supplier name, so when I have time I'll take a dekko at exactly how it works. Expensive looking kit. Van also has yellow flashing beacons inside the back doors (they can be switched on and seen when doors are open) plus the loudest reversing beeper you can imagine. Makes me think it was run by someone with a pretty professional attitude to H&S and security.
Vin
-
I have a 2020 diesel vivaro and a 2020 electric vivaro both insured for any employee, both the same price. The only vehicle in the fleet that is any different is (was - recently sold) a 2009 navara which was the same price but not everyone could drive it - over 25 with a clean licence only.
I would shop around. I always advise to use a local broker if you can.
-
Finally picked it up. Popped up to Glasgow yesterday to collect the new van.
Drive home was long - kept the speed at 60mph to keep the range up but still had three charge stops of about 35 - 45 minutes each to cover the 440 miles. All the chargers worked exactly as expected bar the top up at the start of the journey in Glasgow at a Tesla dealer where it ran at 1/3 expected charge rate. Gave me plenty of time to read the van manual at least.
Van lovely and quiet (I mean astoundingly quiet) so I arrived home late but pretty much OK. Bar the next week or two, that should be the last time I ever have to use public chargers. Home charger going in shortly.
Received an insurance quote from A Plan - as expected, roughly a third more than the diesel, which will wipe out the savings on fuel.
Wife taxed the van while I was driving - £0.
Astounding pickup when you put your foot down. Interested to see what that'll be like once it's carrying the best part of a ton of equipment.
Next step, install everything but the tank ready for the switch over.
(https://i.postimg.cc/13fCF81W/20250219-113043-Blur.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/DS3PkyZs)
Vin
60mph is the speed limit ;)
Good aren't they.
-
60mph is the speed limit ;)
Ha! Just thinking about this, you were probably on a motorway!
Closest motorway to me is about 100 miles away, which is out of range for the vans, pretty much!
The joys of being a country bumpkin / teuchter.
-
Thanks for the update Vin.
How many miles did you do between stops and what were the percentages down to when you arrived in each stop?
What was your percentage remaining when you got home?
-
I watched a review of the e tranny custom, it’s on YouTube by a tradesman, it has put me off electric somewhat. Worth a watch.
I’m really interested how you get on with this vin.
-
Is an ev van 100% tax deductible for the first year? Even if bought with part loan?
-
Is an ev van 100% tax deductible for the first year? Even if bought with part loan?
Was for me. Speak to an accountant.
-
Is an ev van 100% tax deductible for the first year? Even if bought with part loan?
Was for me. Speak to an accountant.
How did you purchase it? Finance or outright?
-
Is an ev van 100% tax deductible for the first year? Even if bought with part loan?
Was for me. Speak to an accountant.
How did you purchase it? Finance or outright?
The one I bought (most are/were rented) I bought with an interest free loan from the government.
-
Sorry for the delay, but the forum disappeared. Answering the handful of questions.
Journeys between stops were about 120 or so miles. Funny how much more scared I was of running out of electrons than I am of running out of diesel, odd given the image below: all the 100kWh charger locations (100kW is the fastest the van will take charge) on the emptiest part of the journey. Top to bottom of this picture (Glasgow to Lancaster) is 160 miles or so. I suspect there are as many as there are petrol pumps on that route. But the range anxiety got to me.
(https://i.postimg.cc/y6gdSw2Q/Chargers-Scotland.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Every charger I hit worked fine bar one that said it was 100kW and actually managed 66kW. I could have moved the the one in the next parking bay but it was a meal stop so I wasn't too bothered. Charge times were 35m or so to closer to an hour there. Also, they all took a swiped credit card so I didn't use any of the apps.
Can't remember what range I hit home with. I was going to log it all carefully then Mrs Vin pointed out I'm never ever going to do a trip like that again and not to be such a silly s*d. I was running it down to about 20% and up to about 80%.
Purchased outright - all allowable this year, which is nice.
Looked up the wired in camera system. Yes it records all the time to a hard drive. About £1,700 worth (which I wasn't expecting, and which is a tad irrelevant to the EV part, but a nice bonus).
Yes, Soupy, we're able to hit the heady heights of 70mph on those really big roads we have in civilised areas. And yes, the torque is utterly addictive. Feels much more like my bike days than a two ton van.
Headaches so far (one very serious) in a later post,
Vin
-
I bet the big problem is bolting down a tank.
That’s always going to be an issue with EV vans
-
I bet the big problem is bolting down a tank.
That’s always going to be an issue with EV vans
Oh yes indeed.
The tank we need to move is a Super Zero from Gardiners. Very much used as the prototype that eventually became Grippa's offering. The way it's fitted is ingenious as it uses sliding bolts on a frame to hold the tank down. You have two bolts through to spreader plates at the front, two at the back. These bolts can be fitted anything up to about 95cm apart at the front, 75cm at the back. So far so good.
However, the van's battery is more than 95cm wide and sits as a huge block under the (perfectly flat) van floor. So, what needs to happen is that the battery needs to be removed and dropped out. Then you drill four holes through the nice, flat van floor, fit spreaders and bolt the tank in place. Then replace the battery. Minor difficulties arise because there are cooling fluid pipes above the battery and you need to be sure that bolt heads, etc aren't interfering with them. But there's plenty of room around them.
Removing the battery is a 90 minute job, as is replacing it. It requires an IMI grade 4 EV specialist to do it (400 odd volts will spoil your day if you don't know what you're doing). So just find a garage with a suitably qualified mechanic and get cracking, eh?
No. Most of the trained mechanics are tied to main dealers, every single one of whose attitude is "let's have a look at all the things that could go wrong; no, not under any circumstances". The independents are few and far between and their attitude is "That's an interesting problem, we'd love to have a go and we're happy to help". But the nearest I've found is 95 miles away and fully booked to the end of the month (maybe because they're helpful unlike the main dealers).
So here we are. Booked in in three weeks for a 190 mile round trip to fit the tank.
Still, it's given us plenty of time to kit out the new van all bar the tank. And the old van soldiers on undefeated.
Vin
-
Sounds pretty annoying!
-
What weight is the big Ev battery?
I guess it would be 300kgs but its all to do with the range.
-
https://www.parkers.co.uk/vans-pickups/vauxhall/vivaro/2020-vivaro-e-review/
I was surprised to read it has a payload of 1,226kgs for an EV van which is more than my VW Crafter.
-
Sounds pretty annoying!
It is, but this is the first one we've bought so we expected that all the hassles were going to come out on this one. The good news is that there's someone out there willing to help us with the job. In five years, there'll be far more people looking for the work - at the moment it's mostly main dealers and, let's face it, if they turn down our money today someone will be in to have their Vauxhall serviced tomorrow. As independents have to deal with BEVs more and more there'll be competition from people who actually want to make money and retain customers.
Vin
-
Sounds pretty annoying!
It is, but this is the first one we've bought so we expected that all the hassles were going to come out on this one. The good news is that there's someone out there willing to help us with the job. In five years, there'll be far more people looking for the work - at the moment it's mostly main dealers and, let's face it, if they turn down our money today someone will be in to have their Vauxhall serviced tomorrow. As independents have to deal with BEVs more and more there'll be competition from people who actually want to make money and retain customers.
Vin
Thinking outside the box that the majority of us use when it comes to fitting a tank in a van.
Is it possible to secure the tank other than through the floor utilising (e.g.) where the bulkhead is installed and/or sills, the cross member where the rear bumper affixes to/wheelarches etc.
Using chains/welded struts?
Obviously a professional engineer would need to be consulted.
Just something rattling in my mind in that if you were a courier and delivering say a 500L tank of juice then you wouldn't HAVE to (legally) modify a van at all.
And for clarity - I personally WOULD want sensible fixing of a tank. More so for an employee or franchisee.
-
Sounds pretty annoying!
It is, but this is the first one we've bought so we expected that all the hassles were going to come out on this one. The good news is that there's someone out there willing to help us with the job. In five years, there'll be far more people looking for the work - at the moment it's mostly main dealers and, let's face it, if they turn down our money today someone will be in to have their Vauxhall serviced tomorrow. As independents have to deal with BEVs more and more there'll be competition from people who actually want to make money and retain customers.
Vin
Thinking outside the box that the majority of us use when it comes to fitting a tank in a van.
Is it possible to secure the tank other than through the floor utilising (e.g.) where the bulkhead is installed and/or sills, the cross member where the rear bumper affixes to/wheelarches etc.
Using chains/welded struts?
Obviously a professional engineer would need to be consulted.
Just something rattling in my mind in that if you were a courier and delivering say a 500L tank of juice then you wouldn't HAVE to (legally) modify a van at all.
And for clarity - I personally WOULD want sensible fixing of a tank. More so for an employee or franchise.
Were you thinking along the line of skid plates? Fit the tank to a frame that has 'outriggers' in exactly the right places so the battery doesn't have to be dropped for access.
Who was that supplier who put their tanks on a frame? I don't think they are in business any longer. (Omnipole?)
-
I have Grippa's 650l tank and it sits in a frame and the frame is fixed to floor with bolts through spreader plates.
In an accident, you can get charged with having an unsafe load. If I was an employee and I got injured then I would be instructing my lawyer to go down this road. So with that in mind I would only have my vans fitted with crash test tanks.
Here's a thing no one bar me has thought of. If I change vans then who do I get to swap the tank over? I could do the task myself but would that satisfy the courts? If I get Oliver to do it and have the paper work from Grippa then its all legal when I have an accident. It also keeps me legal with my insurance policy.
One to think about.
Remember, these things only arise in a court case or when the insurance has to be paid out and that's when they look at all the small print to see if they can wriggle out of it and blame the owner.
-
Exactly what spruce says. Weld or bolt the tank frame to another frame or skid then bolt that in where you can.
I've just done the same thing on my pug partner saved dropping the tank simply made a tank frame then welded it to sub frame made from box section.
-
I have Grippa's 650l tank and it sits in a frame and the frame is fixed to floor with bolts through spreader plates.
In an accident, you can get charged with having an unsafe load. If I was an employee and I got injured then I would be instructing my lawyer to go down this road. So with that in mind I would only have my vans fitted with crash test tanks.
Here's thing no one bar me has thought of. If I change vans then who do I get to swap the tank over? I could do the task myself but would that satisfy the courts? If I get Oliver to do it and have the paper work from Grippa then its all legal when I have an accident. It also keeps me legal with my insurance policy.
One to think about.
Remember, these things only arise in a court case or when the insurance has to be paid out and that's when they look at all the small print to see if they can wriggle out of it and blame the owner.
I think you might be wrong in your assumption there. But give yourself a pat on the back anyway.
-
In answer to Spruce. I hadn't thought any further than what I posted.
But bigger brains like yours are!
Which is good.
;D
-
I'm not going to raise the whole issue of tank safety again: there have been dozens of threads on the subject and it all becomes heated, every time. However, I do know I don't have the skills to judge whether a particular solution will do the job. I can't judge the strength of a weld under a 20t force. It's easy to consider how you stop a load sliding under braking. It's a completely different kettle of fish working out what a tank will do to its mountings with the weight of a couple of elephants hanging off them.
What I do have is a system that's been crash tested and that I know how to refit.I've spoken to Alex and it's straightforward. Amazingly so. Brilliantly so.
So I'm resigned to dropping the battery and fitting the tank I have in exactly the way I know it was designed to be fitted.
I'm not running down anyone who fits a tank in any particular way. This decision is purely about what I'm happy with.
However, for the longer term, I'm looking to come up with a solution for when the franchisees come to replace ICE with BEV vans. It's a major problem looming for the tank manufacturers. As I've said before, in a handful of years this is going to have to be solved.
Vin
-
Are you charging from home? Do you have to calculate daily charging time multiplied by £/kWh to put down as a business expense?
-
Are you charging from home? Do you have to calculate daily charging time multiplied by £/kWh to put down as a business expense?
Home chargers now have to have a separate smart meter, so these costs will be billed separately. You will know exactly what electricity your van has used each month.
The problem could be that in the future, Vin's private car could also be electric using the same charge point. I don't know how that would work.
-
Are you charging from home? Do you have to calculate daily charging time multiplied by £/kWh to put down as a business expense?
Home chargers now have to have a separate smart meter, so these costs will be billed separately. You will know exactly what electricity your van has used each month.
The problem could be that in the future, Vin's private car could also be electric using the same charge point. I don't know how that would work.
I believe the software that runs the charger knows what kind of vehicle is plugged into it, so separating the two sets of bills is pretty straightforward.
As long as I have the amount of electricity and the unit price it should be straightforward. Though at about 3p a mile maximum and 3,000 miles a year it's only going to be about £90.
Vin
-
Are you charging from home? Do you have to calculate daily charging time multiplied by £/kWh to put down as a business expense?
Home chargers now have to have a separate smart meter, so these costs will be billed separately. You will know exactly what electricity your van has used each month.
The problem could be that in the future, Vin's private car could also be electric using the same charge point. I don't know how that would work.
I believe the software that runs the charger knows what kind of vehicle is plugged into it, so separating the two sets of bills is pretty straightforward.
As long as I have the amount of electricity and the unit price it should be straightforward. Though at about 3p a mile maximum and 3,000 miles a year it's only going to be about £90.
Vin
Wow. Thanks for that info.
-
I have solar panels which produce 10kw a day on average from now till October. Only use 2 kws a day so rest goes back to the grid. If I had EV van then I would be looking at installing a 10kw battery and switching to Octopus energy to get the 9p per Kw charge between 11pm and 5am to charge the van and even the battery.
I now have a steady stream of solar cleans till May which I clean every year. New houses all have some solar panels and I have to take out my 35 foot pole to clean the veluxes and I give the panels a once over each month from now till September, its a nice selling point on the new estate I clean. Don't think anyone else does it and it take's a minute.
-
I have solar panels which produce 10kw a day on average from now till October. Only use 2 kws a day so rest goes back to the grid. If I had EV van then I would be looking at installing a 10kw battery and switching to Octopus energy to get the 9p per Kw charge between 11pm and 5am to charge the van and even the battery.
I now have a steady stream of solar cleans till May which I clean every year. New houses all have some solar panels and I have to take out my 35 foot pole to clean the veluxes and I give the panels a once over each month from now till September, its a nice selling point on the new estate I clean. Don't think anyone else does it and it take's a minute.
??? ??? Most houses have 16 panels. Are you charging to clean these every time you get your heavy 35' pole out? Have you been on an SS course?
-
This thread is primarily about electric vans. Please stay on that topic.
-
i would be interested to here anyone who runs a hot water system in a electric van how it affects the battery as they draw a lot of power i saw streamline installed one in a vivaro e i herd 40 miles per charge in winter 80 miles summer !!
-
i would be interested to here anyone who runs a hot water system in a electric van how it affects the battery as they draw a lot of power i saw streamline installed one in a vivaro e i herd 40 miles per charge in winter 80 miles summer !!
I'd be interested to know how they installed the tank as well.
-
I'd be interested to know how they installed the tank as well.
Old tank cage being removed from our van today. It has a few patches of cosmetic rust so we're giving it a full repaint then we're off next Wednesday to have the battery dropped and the cage fitted to the new van (hopefully).
So hopefully by next week we'll at least know how easy a Grippatank is to fit in a Stellantis EV. Or if it simply won't fit, which is a possibility.
Vin
-
i would be interested to here anyone who runs a hot water system in a electric van how it affects the battery as they draw a lot of power i saw streamline installed one in a vivaro e i herd 40 miles per charge in winter 80 miles summer !!
Let's say you're raising the temperature of 500 litres of water by 30C.
Raising the temp of one litre of water by 1C requires 4,200 joules of energy. So to do 500l x 30C would need 63million joules.
1kWh (3,600 seconds in an hour x 1,000 joules) = 3.6 million joules so heating that much water would take 17.5kWh*, which (with a 20% inefficiency built in) is roughly a quarter of a full battery charge on a 75kWh Vivaro. Which would take the range down from 210 to about 150. That 210 is an empty van, in summer.
However...
With a 7kW charger on your drive you're only putting 35kWh into the battery in a five hour cheap rate charging window. At that rate, half of that is going into the water heater, so your ability to do longer runs a few days a week would be severely hit.
On the other side of that, the day of water heating on that cheap rate electricity, is only costing you about £1.50. On public charging at 79p per kWH, that would be £14 a day.
Sounds possible (but only just).
Vin
* All calculations my own so best checked if you're making any decisions based on this.
-
An additional thought. If someone's fitted an electric water heater running from the main battery of the van, they're working with a 450v DC power supply that's extremely well protected and isolated from interference so I sincerely hope they know what they're doing. Good luck claiming on your battery warranty if there's an issue and good luck if you suffer a 450v shock.
Vin
-
I'd be interested to know how they installed the tank as well.
Old tank cage being removed from our van today. It has a few patches of cosmetic rust so we're giving it a full repaint then we're off next Wednesday to have the battery dropped and the cage fitted to the new van (hopefully).
So hopefully by next week we'll at least know how easy a Grippatank is to fit in a Stellantis EV. Or if it simply won't fit, which is a possibility.
Vin
Have you verified with your van insurance that you are changing over the system yourself? Good to know how they respond to this. Better to know you are covered in the event of an accident. 😉
-
An additional thought. If someone's fitted an electric water heater running from the main battery of the van, they're working with a 450v DC power supply that's extremely well protected and isolated from interference so I sincerely hope they know what they're doing. Good luck claiming on your battery warranty if there's an issue and good luck if you suffer a 450v shock.
Vin
If you are electrically heating the water and your van is on the drive for charging its batteries then a seperate 240 volt immersion heater overnight could do the heavy lifting for you.
Then any element run off of the van battery could be used as necessary later in the working day just to keep the temperature up.
-
Good point. And the maths is the same: if you're on the EV tariff and you heat the water with the immersion heater, again you're looking at about £1.50.
One of our guys had an immersion heater fitted and, with an inch of Celotex insulation, it would stay warm enough all day.
Vin
-
a immersion heater sounds ok but running a thermo pure would be better as you get much hotter water im not sure if they added to leisure batterys as a buffer to the main van battery ?
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8uveArWkhc&t=31s&pp=ygUYc3RyZWFtbGluZSBkaWVzZWwgaGVhdGVy
-
Another thought. Charging the van battery and running a 3kW immersion at the same time would add up to about 50 amps running through your house wiring. Not insignificant and worth checking with the sparky fitting the EV charger.
Vin
-
Extension lead for van has a maximum of 3150 watts fully unwound but 720watts coiled on reel for a 13amp extension lead which would start a house fire as the lead would melt for sure if running 3kw immersion heater and that's without using a battery charger.
-
Extension lead for van has a maximum of 3150 watts fully unwound but 720watts coiled on reel for a 13amp extension lead which would start a house fire as the lead would melt for sure if running 3kw immersion heater and that's without using a battery charger.
When I had a 3kw element I used a 16amp caravan socket.
But when I changed tanks I went for 2kw and reverted to standard 13 amp plugs.
-
Another thought. Charging the van battery and running a 3kW immersion at the same time would add up to about 50 amps running through your house wiring. Not insignificant and worth checking with the sparky fitting the EV charger.
Vin
Yes. And if you are future proofing you might want to consider that your house might be supplying two EVs (van and family car) and an immersion.
Always check with a qualified electrician.
-
Another thought. Charging the van battery and running a 3kW immersion at the same time would add up to about 50 amps running through your house wiring. Not insignificant and worth checking with the sparky fitting the EV charger.
Vin
Quite often the sparky installing the EV charger will ask the DNO (Distribution Network Operator) to install a 100Amp supply fuse it the incoming cable is of sufficient size.
-
So, yesterday was crunch time.
Set off at 5:30 to reach Cleevely Motors in Cheltenham by 8am.
They dropped the battery out in about 45 minutes then the fun started - basically they left the vehicle on one of their ramps for us to work on it.
Above the propulsion battery the Vivaro floor is pretty flat but with a few braces running across it.
(https://i.postimg.cc/jdbjdBLV/Clipboard02.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
On top of the battery is all this. The middle set of hoses is roughly where the bulkhead sits.
(https://i.postimg.cc/rm0DxcNg/Clipboard01.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
So the fun is fitting the spreader plates and associated bolts under the floor such that they aren't over the wiggly coolant hoses in the pic above and (obviously) are on a flat, brace-free part of the underside of the floor. But for 16mm, it should all have been so simple. However, it wasn't. The problem was a brace rather than a hose. After a huge amount of head-scratching we came up with a compromise, so our rear spreader plates don't have a central hole, they have one 16mm off centre. However, given it's a 100x200x10 plate, that's not going to be a problem.
All in all, fitting the tank cage and all the rest took five hours but it's done.
Now just to refit all the other crap that goes in the back of the van...
Other thoughts.
Still an utterly lovely van to drive.
Motorway miles absolutely hammer the range. 170 indicated miles turned into 135 despite sticking to 60mph.
Country roads mean you get as many miles as you're expecting
Town driving, you have more miles than the indicator tells you
Driving down from Birdlip into Cheltenham (a five mile drive) not only didn't use any electrons; it added six miles of range
We added 100 miles in about 20 minutes at a high speed charger. Cost us £33. Hopefully the last one ever (see next point).
At home we added 100 miles (our weekly maximum mileage) overnight via our new EV charge point. Cost us £3.50.
Today's UPS, DPD and Amazon deliveries (various bits for filling the van with crap) were all electric vans.
That's all.
Vin
-
Final fitment was a nightmare. The last two spreader plates, the ones I mentioned that had holes 16mm off centre, took a day and a half to fit. The problem was that the holes were half on single skin floor, half on double skin floor, with weld between. Drilling them took every bit of ingenuity we possessed and almost everything abrasive in our toolkit.
After that, all went swimmingly. Because of the potential complexity of charging a leisure battery from the main one, we've decided to use our Lithium leisure battery straight connected with a bench charge at the end of the week. That drastically reduced the amount of wiring we had to do.
First day out today. All good bar one leak from a fitting I hadn't tightened enough. Shortish day covering a handful of miles. Longer test tomorrow with a trip to our most distant area (a 35 mile or so total for the day).
Van hasn't caught fire yet, which is lucky.
Vin
-
Final fitment was a nightmare. The last two spreader plates, the ones I mentioned that had holes 16mm off centre, took a day and a half to fit. The problem was that the holes were half on single skin floor, half on double skin floor, with weld between. Drilling them took every bit of ingenuity we possessed and almost everything abrasive in our toolkit.
After that, all went swimmingly. Because of the potential complexity of charging a leisure battery from the main one, we've decided to use our Lithium leisure battery straight connected with a bench charge at the end of the week. That drastically reduced the amount of wiring we had to do.
First day out today. All good bar one leak from a fitting I hadn't tightened enough. Shortish day covering a handful of miles. Longer test tomorrow with a trip to our most distant area (a 35 mile or so total for the day).
Van hasn't caught fire yet, which is lucky.
Vin
Thanks for the comprehensive updates.
-
A week done.
In the coolish weather we've been having this week (sunny but cool) in Southampton, we've run three and a half days.
With a bang full tank, plus a cage and two of us we're pretty much up at full weight. Effect on range? We do almost exactly 2/3 of what the van's range tells us it'll do. So it should be what we hoped for, namely one charge a week.
Still as lovely to drive as ever and still fun away from the lights. Customers seem to love the silence as we arrive.
One very weird effect. Must have been there all the time but the sloshing from the water tank is amazingly loud.
Vin
-
A week done.
In the coolish weather we've been having this week (sunny but cool) in Southampton, we've run three and a half days.
With a bang full tank, plus a cage and two of us we're pretty much up at full weight. Effect on range? We do almost exactly 2/3 of what the van's range tells us it'll do. So it should be what we hoped for, namely one charge a week.
Still as lovely to drive as ever and still fun away from the lights. Customers seem to love the silence as we arrive.
One very weird effect. Must have been there all the time but the sloshing from the water tank is amazingly loud.
Vin
Keep the water sloshing, you need it to put the fire out!
Thanks for sharing.
-
A week done.
In the coolish weather we've been having this week (sunny but cool) in Southampton, we've run three and a half days.
With a bang full tank, plus a cage and two of us we're pretty much up at full weight. Effect on range? We do almost exactly 2/3 of what the van's range tells us it'll do. So it should be what we hoped for, namely one charge a week.
Still as lovely to drive as ever and still fun away from the lights. Customers seem to love the silence as we arrive.
One very weird effect. Must have been there all the time but the sloshing from the water tank is amazingly loud.
Vin
I would say the weather has been warm enough for batteries to work at their most efficient. I find winter (less than 8DegC) the range drops by about 20%. If you can charge just once a week that's great, although having a charging station at home is nice :-)
The torque is quite amazing on electric vehicles - it's not until you drive one you realise how 'peaky' petrol and diesel engines are.
It's surprising just how quiet and vibration free ev's are. You hear things that you never did due to the smooth silent drive.
-
Massive U turn from the Sun.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/34437995/cybertruck-elon-musk-bills-tesla-motors/
All of a sudden EVs are the future.
-
Massive U turn from the Sun.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/34437995/cybertruck-elon-musk-bills-tesla-motors/
All of a sudden EVs are the future.
Crawling to Musk might not be the wisest move just at the moment.
Vin
-
I was wondering the result on the van's 3 year manufacturers warranty once we drill holes in the van's floor?
I was told the warranty is null and void once we modify the vehicle. It would be good to know the law and I will be clarifying it with my VW dealer before I buy. Any info most welcome.
-
I was wondering the result on the van's 3 year manufacturers warranty once we drill holes in the van's floor?
I was told the warranty is null and void once we modify the vehicle. It would be good to know the law and I will be clarifying it with my VW dealer before I buy. Any info most welcome.
Never had an issue.
Not had any large claims though.
-
I was wondering the result on the van's 3 year manufacturers warranty once we drill holes in the van's floor?
I was told the warranty is null and void once we modify the vehicle. It would be good to know the law and I will be clarifying it with my VW dealer before I buy. Any info most welcome.
Never had an issue.
Not had any large claims though.
How did you fix tanks in your electric vans Soups?
-
I was wondering the result on the van's 3 year manufacturers warranty once we drill holes in the van's floor?
I was told the warranty is null and void once we modify the vehicle. It would be good to know the law and I will be clarifying it with my VW dealer before I buy. Any info most welcome.
I'd be more concerned that the crash tested installation is now invalid as the testing wasn't on a vehicle with a massive, heavy battery also attached to the chassis directly under the tank. Plus, it has been removed, slightly modified and refitted by a none authorised installer. The original supplier/installer would run a mile in the event of any accidents causing injury!
-
I was wondering the result on the van's 3 year manufacturers warranty once we drill holes in the van's floor?
I was told the warranty is null and void once we modify the vehicle. It would be good to know the law and I will be clarifying it with my VW dealer before I buy. Any info most welcome.
Never had an issue.
Not had any large claims though.
How did you fix tanks in your electric vans Soups?
Bolted through the floor.
-
One of my customer's had a small bump and got the repair done by a small garage and paid for it. His mobility dealer told him his warranty is null and void because he never went through them. Sounds daft that they have to do the repairs but it must be wrote into the contract.
Many questions we need to query when buying our next van. Looks like many grey areas that will pop up in the future. I don't even think our insurers have the answers.
I was also told that if one leases a van then you can't modify it, it has to be handed back in same condition one received it. Don't know if this is true so will need to ask a few questions before buying.
I might end up with a van that is out of warranty so I can do what I like to it aslong as my insurers are happy to insure it.
Looks like we could be entering a minefield in the future just to turn a coin as a window cleaner. 🤔
-
I was wondering the result on the van's 3 year manufacturers warranty once we drill holes in the van's floor?
I was told the warranty is null and void once we modify the vehicle. It would be good to know the law and I will be clarifying it with my VW dealer before I buy. Any info most welcome.
Never had an issue.
Not had any large claims though.
How did you fix tanks in your electric vans Soups?
Bolted through the floor.
Thanks.
So how did you avoid the battery pack?
-
I was wondering the result on the van's 3 year manufacturers warranty once we drill holes in the van's floor?
I was told the warranty is null and void once we modify the vehicle. It would be good to know the law and I will be clarifying it with my VW dealer before I buy. Any info most welcome.
Never had an issue.
Not had any large claims though.
How did you fix tanks in your electric vans Soups?
Bolted through the floor.
Thanks.
So how did you avoid the battery pack?
Wide, long, flat tank.
-
One of my customer's had a small bump and got the repair done by a small garage and paid for it. His mobility dealer told him his warranty is null and void because he never went through them. Sounds daft that they have to do the repairs but it must be wrote into the contract.
Many questions we need to query when buying our next van. Looks like many grey areas that will pop up in the future. I don't even think our insurers have the answers.
I was also told that if one leases a van then you can't modify it, it has to be handed back in same condition one received it. Don't know if this is true so will need to ask a few questions before buying.
I might end up with a van that is out of warranty so I can do what I like to it aslong as my insurers are happy to insure it.
Looks like we could be entering a minefield in the future just to turn a coin as a window cleaner. 🤔
Sounds like you don’t know if you’re leasing or buying?
-
One of my customer's had a small bump and got the repair done by a small garage and paid for it. His mobility dealer told him his warranty is null and void because he never went through them. Sounds daft that they have to do the repairs but it must be wrote into the contract.
Franky on this forum has a disabled son and therefore a mobility vehicle.
All repairs (like literally ALL) get fixed by mobility, no cost.
So A, if this is true then your customer needs to actually find out what they’re entitled to and B, it has nothing to do with manufacturers warranty.
-
One of my customer's had a small bump and got the repair done by a small garage and paid for it. His mobility dealer told him his warranty is null and void because he never went through them. Sounds daft that they have to do the repairs but it must be wrote into the contract.
Franky on this forum has a disabled son and therefore a mobility vehicle.
All repairs (like literally ALL) get fixed by mobility, no cost.
So A, if this is true then your customer needs to actually find out what they’re entitled to and B, it has nothing to do with manufacturers warranty.
That's what I am saying he paid for it to get repaired by another garage. He should have got the mobility garage to repair it as you say but maybe the cost was higher thus he invalidated the warranty. We need to play by the rules or it comes back to haunt us.
Maybe Perfect Windows can verify if he still has the remainder of the manufacturers warranty?
Going to VW garage tomorrow to pick up some bolts I want to replace on my new hub. I will hopefully sit down with sales person and ask a few questions. Hopefully I can get to the bottom of the warranty situation.
-
Forget about the bolts. I think you have a screw loose!
-
Wide, long, flat tank.
What kind of cage do you have around the tank? Manufactured to your spec or bought?
Vin
-
Interesting news...
(https://i.postimg.cc/XvTgxWfs/2d2de161-65a3-49d7-a4a0-7982dbf449d2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mcyM2069)
Vin
-
Nervous breakdowns are probably up though.
-
Wide, long, flat tank.
What kind of cage do you have around the tank? Manufactured to your spec or bought?
Vin
Our spec.
-
Back from VW garage in Glasgow and had a great chat with warranty person. He was saying a new van would be covered as long as it doesn't make a difference to manufactured parts. They sell to councils who fit 12v to 240v inverters so a split rely from the van's battery is okay as long as it doesn't malfunction the battery.
I told him about fitting a system in an EV van and removing the battery. He said they have only 2 EV mechanics and must undertake a job together on ever job in case one get's injured. So they would need to undertake the task of removing the EV battery and replacing it. If anyone else did it then the warranty is null and void and the same with the 8 year battery warranty because only the manufacturer would allow their EV technicians to remove an EV battery and replace it.
I fully expected this on EV's but wasn't sure on diesel vans. Had a look around a new VW Crafter and she was saying its still a dry belt but the new transporters have a transit floor plan and same wet belt engine made in Turkey. Because of the wet belt problems they hand out a 5 year warranty on the Transporters. Crafter still made in Germany and they have sorted the add blu problem they had about 5 years ago.
So it looks like a new Crafter I will be aiming for in the future.
-
Back from VW garage in Glasgow and had a great chat with warranty person. He was saying a new van would be covered as long as it doesn't make a difference to manufactured parts. They sell to councils who fit 12v to 240v inverters so a split rely from the van's battery is okay as long as it doesn't malfunction the battery.
I told him about fitting a system in an EV van and removing the battery. He said they have only 2 EV mechanics and must undertake a job together on ever job in case one get's injured. So they would need to undertake the task of removing the EV battery and replacing it. If anyone else did it then the warranty is null and void and the same with the 8 year battery warranty because only the manufacturer would allow their EV technicians to remove an EV battery and replace it.
I fully expected this on EV's but wasn't sure on diesel vans. Had a look around a new VW Crafter and she was saying its still a dry belt but the new transporters have a transit floor plan and same wet belt engine made in Turkey. Because of the wet belt problems they hand out a 5 year warranty on the Transporters. Crafter still made in Germany and they have sorted the add blu problem they had about 5 years ago.
So it looks like a new Crafter I will be aiming for in the future.
The VW crafter van and MAN TGE vans are only made in Poland ,the older model crafter like you have now was a collaboration with Mercedes and was built in Germany mainly but not the latest version
-
Back from VW garage in Glasgow and had a great chat with warranty person. He was saying a new van would be covered as long as it doesn't make a difference to manufactured parts. They sell to councils who fit 12v to 240v inverters so a split rely from the van's battery is okay as long as it doesn't malfunction the battery.
I told him about fitting a system in an EV van and removing the battery. He said they have only 2 EV mechanics and must undertake a job together on ever job in case one get's injured. So they would need to undertake the task of removing the EV battery and replacing it. If anyone else did it then the warranty is null and void and the same with the 8 year battery warranty because only the manufacturer would allow their EV technicians to remove an EV battery and replace it.
I fully expected this on EV's but wasn't sure on diesel vans. Had a look around a new VW Crafter and she was saying its still a dry belt but the new transporters have a transit floor plan and same wet belt engine made in Turkey. Because of the wet belt problems they hand out a 5 year warranty on the Transporters. Crafter still made in Germany and they have sorted the add blu problem they had about 5 years ago.
So it looks like a new Crafter I will be aiming for in the future.
The VW crafter van and MAN TGE vans are only made in Poland ,the older model crafter like you have now was a collaboration with Mercedes and was built in Germany mainly but not the latest version
Didn’t ‘she’ tell you this Scottish? Typical salesperson, missing out the info they want to miss out!
-
Latest update:
Three charges so far this month so we're doing pretty much a week per charge. I've finally stopped worrying about the range. When the battery reaches about 20%-30% pop it on charge overnight and it's at 80% or so in the morning. Each charge has been a remarkably consistent £3.10.
One issue. Van is boarded out to a very, very high spec with 3/4" ply everywhere. It's affected the payload enough that we can't go out with the full 600 litres (the weighbridge doesn't lie). So we're giving some thought as to whether to suffer tank anxiety or reduce the lining. Not run low enough in water yet to worry but it's an unexpected embuggerance.
Scared the boy the other day when I pulled into a gap in a line of 30mph traffic with a touch of vigour the other day. Great fun to drive.
Vin
-
Latest update:
Three charges so far this month so we're doing pretty much a week per charge. I've finally stopped worrying about the range. When the battery reaches about 20%-30% pop it on charge overnight and it's at 80% or so in the morning. Each charge has been a remarkably consistent £3.10.
One issue. Van is boarded out to a very, very high spec with 3/4" ply everywhere. It's affected the payload enough that we can't go out with the full 600 litres (the weighbridge doesn't lie). So we're giving some thought as to whether to suffer tank anxiety or reduce the lining. Not run low enough in water yet to worry but it's an unexpected embuggerance.
Scared the boy the other day when I pulled into a gap in a line of 30mph traffic with a touch of vigour the other day. Great fun to drive.
Vin
Thanks for the update Vin.
£3.10 per charge is great.
Maybe get yourself and any co-pilot on a diet. Lose a stone each and that's an extra 12 litres of water.
;D
-
Stop worrying about the payload and just fill the tank up, it’ll be fine! ;D
-
Thanks for the update Vin.
£3.10 per charge is great.
Maybe get yourself and any co-pilot on a diet. Lose a stone each and that's an extra 12 litres of water.
;D
There's not a great deal of me to start with - I'll disappear.
Vin
-
Latest update:
Three charges so far this month so we're doing pretty much a week per charge. I've finally stopped worrying about the range. When the battery reaches about 20%-30% pop it on charge overnight and it's at 80% or so in the morning. Each charge has been a remarkably consistent £3.10.
One issue. Van is boarded out to a very, very high spec with 3/4" ply everywhere. It's affected the payload enough that we can't go out with the full 600 litres (the weighbridge doesn't lie). So we're giving some thought as to whether to suffer tank anxiety or reduce the lining. Not run low enough in water yet to worry but it's an unexpected embuggerance.
Scared the boy the other day when I pulled into a gap in a line of 30mph traffic with a touch of vigour the other day. Great fun to drive.
Vin
Is that a 13a charger you're using? 50% charge overnight seems low otherwise?
We remove all unnecessary weight from all our vans, regardless of drivetrain.
-
Latest update:
Three charges so far this month so we're doing pretty much a week per charge. I've finally stopped worrying about the range. When the battery reaches about 20%-30% pop it on charge overnight and it's at 80% or so in the morning. Each charge has been a remarkably consistent £3.10.
One issue. Van is boarded out to a very, very high spec with 3/4" ply everywhere. It's affected the payload enough that we can't go out with the full 600 litres (the weighbridge doesn't lie). So we're giving some thought as to whether to suffer tank anxiety or reduce the lining. Not run low enough in water yet to worry but it's an unexpected embuggerance.
Scared the boy the other day when I pulled into a gap in a line of 30mph traffic with a touch of vigour the other day. Great fun to drive.
Vin
Is that a 13a charger you're using? 50% charge overnight seems low otherwise?
We remove all unnecessary weight from all our vans, regardless of drivetrain.
With most EV's charging to 80% is best for battery life. If you need more range occasionally then charge to 100%.
If the electricity is only £3.10 assuming about 30p a unit that's only 10Kwh so a 13Amp charger could do that in a bit over 3 hrs. A single phase mains wired charger can do 7.2Kw so in theory it could be charged in about 90mins if the onboard charger will allow that.
-
Is that a 13a charger you're using? 50% charge overnight seems low otherwise?
We remove all unnecessary weight from all our vans, regardless of drivetrain.
It's a 7.4kW charger, so over the five hour cheap rate window (12:30 - 5:30 at 8.5p/kWh on Octopus Go) we're bunging in about 37kWh. Van is 75kWh so almost exactly 50%
Vin
-
It dwarfs all our other energy use...
(https://i.postimg.cc/SRjGMLRX/Clipboard01.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Vin
-
With most EV's charging to 80% is best for battery life. If you need more range occasionally then charge to 100%.
If the electricity is only £3.10 assuming about 30p a unit that's only 10Kwh so a 13Amp charger could do that in a bit over 3 hrs. A single phase mains wired charger can do 7.2Kw so in theory it could be charged in about 90mins if the onboard charger will allow that.
I think our posts crossed. Five hours at 8.5p per kWh is the charge time.
The routine is now that at roughly 40ish miles range or just above (20% or just above) we bung in 5 hours at 7kW. Takes us to 70 - 80% depending on how close we were to 20 or 30%.
Vin
-
What’s the latest? How’s the van going?
-
All going beautifully, thanks. Still driving like a dream and while I was away, my son was out and did our highest mileage week on a single £3.10 harge (only a hundred odd miles but this is the first time we've given up on suffering range anxiety). That took us from 80% to 20%, give or take.
I like driving it so much that I've started using it for much of my town driving in preference to our Mondeo. I used to pop out in the car if I was picking up a tool or a part but now I hop in the van. It's so relaxing to drive and costs 3p a mile. Next car will absolutely, 100%, be electric. Probably an Ioniq 5. (I'd like a 5N if dreams could come true but 600bhp might make me laugh myself to death when I left the lights).
One embuggerance; the charger is instructed when to charge via a supplier website. Their website went down on Monday afternoon, so the first couple of hours were charged early, i.e. at 26p per kWh.
Not sure if I mentioned this before but system installation was greatly eased by dropping split relay charging the leisure battery. Bought a lithium battery for £280 and bench charge it at the end of the week. Two of us working all week at high flow plus an electric reel takes it down to about 50%. Weighs nothing and it's a minor hassle for not having to do any wiring at all. I'd do the same for an ICE van but just happened to do it while changing to this one.
One of the franchisees is now actively looking for an electric van to replace within the next six months and another within the year.
Vin
-
Any updates on the van, Vin?
Also, what leisure battery did you buy for running the pumps etc. and why?
Do you have hot water and electric reel(s)?
-
All going well. Better than well, in fact. We're thinking about making an EV a requirement for all new franchisees. It's the right thing to do for several reasons: it's far better for the environment (regardless of the ill-informed nonsense you read on the internet); emissions matter and EVs are a big help; it's fabulous, utterly fabulous to drive, whisper quiet and massive fun when you need to put your foot down; it's £3 fuel for a week; four year old vans with 30k miles and Grade A batteries are going at auction for well under £10k+VAT, even cheaper than mine. A no brainer for new franchisees.
I've mentioned that we're not using an onboard charger. Instead we have a Sterling 100Ah Li-ion (LFP) battery (AL12100) at £279 ( I think). Chosen because they have a vid on YouTube where they drained it completely and fully recharged it hundreds of times without it losing capacity. Also LFP is by far the safest chemistry along with being able to run 100% to 0% without damage. So we use it all week and bench charge at the weekend.
The lowest state of charge after two of us working with cold water at high flow with one PF electric reel for four days was 53% and it sat the whole week at 13.4v. The battery weighs less than my wife's handbag so it's not a real hassle given that it's saved us a fairly complex wiring problem. I'd use this solution in future regardless of the type of van. Note that you need a charger with a Li-ion charging profile, but these start at about £15-£20.
Downsides? The van catches fire most evenings, but you get used to that.
Vin
-
I would be quite interested in going electric myself. Range anxiety isn’t a problem for me as I work within a 12 mile radius of my house. The big holdback for me is the anxiety of securing my tank frame to the floor. I’m sure you had to travel quite far to find someone who would fit yours and even then a certain degree of improvisation was involved if I remember correctly?
-
I would be quite interested in going electric myself. Range anxiety isn’t a problem for me as I work within a 12 mile radius of my house. The big holdback for me is the anxiety of securing my tank frame to the floor. I’m sure you had to travel quite far to find someone who would fit yours and even then a certain degree of improvisation was involved if I remember correctly?
The same for me.
Quite like the evening combustion, I could sell the BBQ
-
Away from home at the mo but I'll measure up when I'm back and give the exact part of the floor you can't bolt through.
Vin
-
Away from home at the mo but I'll measure up when I'm back and give the exact part of the floor you can't bolt through.
Vin
Won’t different vans have different battery locations though? If I were going electric it would probably be the eCustom Sport I would opt for.
-
Away from home at the mo but I'll measure up when I'm back and give the exact part of the floor you can't bolt through.
Vin
Won’t different vans have different battery locations though? If I were going electric it would probably be the eCustom Sport I would opt for.
Same, that’s what im going for.
Battery takes up whole floor except the 1st quarter and last quarter of the van. So right where the tank goes the battery is underneath!
I’m going to use ratchet straps to strap a flat tank down if/when I get the e custom sport.
-
Away from home at the mo but I'll measure up when I'm back and give the exact part of the floor you can't bolt through.
Vin
Won’t different vans have different battery locations though? If I were going electric it would probably be the eCustom Sport I would opt for.
Same, that’s what im going for.
Battery takes up whole floor except the 1st quarter and last quarter of the van. So right where the tank goes the battery is underneath!
I’m going to use ratchet straps to strap a flat tank down if/when I get the e custom sport.
Aye a was thinking ratchet strapping might be the only option. I’ve got an upright 500 litre tank at the moment so wouldn’t feel comfortable ratchet strapping that, but the larger footprint of a flatter tank could be a possibility?
-
There's a very simple answer to fitting a tank in an electric van, and its literally looking you in the face. It applies equally to any petrol or diesel van too. It would be possible for anyone able to use a few spanners etc. to fit one perfectly safely in a vehicle.
Here is the cargo space of a typical van. There is no need to drill holes to secure a tank. The holes are already drilled and fitted with 'lashing points'. The lashing points are rated to hold (in total) the payload. In this example there are 6. As i think of it, most vans have 6 anyway wether its a Berlingo or a Boxer. Typical set up :
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1749769118_Screenshot at 2025-06-12 23-25-36.png)
What everyone has done for years is ignore them lashing points and drill your own new holes exactly where your tank frame is and where you want it to go . So it looks something like this..... (red is the frame and green is the new drilled holes):
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1749769304_Screenshot at 2025-06-12 23-26-12.png)
If the frame was made to fit the vehicle then you would be able to remove the lashing eye and bolt, place your frame over it and bolt your frame into the existing floor nut. There are numerous ways to adapt a frame, spreader plate pre drilled etc. But it would probably mean that your frame would only ever fit that vehicle. I.e a tank frame for a vivaro would not fit in a Ford custom etc... But thats no different than roof racks. It just means buying a frame that fits your own vehicle and utilises its existing lashing points.
I'm having fun with my green and red pen!! :
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1749769796_Screenshot at 2025-06-12 23-26-36.png)
Someone should of got onto this before me, i'm not the sharpest tool in the box !! ;D
I didn't mean to hijack this thread into a tank fitting one, but seeing as the fitting of a tank into an electric vehicle using old fashioned methods is a very difficult and costly method. And seeing as Soupy even had a custom made spec frame and still drilled through his floor i still think people are missing the very obvious, although a few of you have touched on this subject in this thread before.
Not mentioned that i can see is the price for the fitting of the tank, how much was it Vin?
Vin .
-
Yeah it’s not complicated, nothing wrong with tonne ratchets and a flat tank. Easiest way to go with a Electric van.
-
Away from home at the mo but I'll measure up when I'm back and give the exact part of the floor you can't bolt through.
Vin
Won’t different vans have different battery locations though? If I were going electric it would probably be the eCustom Sport I would opt for.
Same, that’s what im going for.
Battery takes up whole floor except the 1st quarter and last quarter of the van. So right where the tank goes the battery is underneath!
I’m going to use ratchet straps to strap a flat tank down if/when I get the e custom sport.
Aye a was thinking ratchet strapping might be the only option. I’ve got an upright 500 litre tank at the moment so wouldn’t feel comfortable ratchet strapping that, but the larger footprint of a flatter tank could be a possibility?
Have you test driven the e custom sport?
I’ve only test driven the limited, was a bit slow. But great to drive.
The sport does 0-60 in around 8.5 seconds, so not too shabby.
-
There's a very simple answer to fitting a tank in an electric van, and its literally looking you in the face. It applies equally to any petrol or diesel van too. It would be possible for anyone able to use a few spanners etc. to fit one perfectly safely in a vehicle.
Here is the cargo space of a typical van. There is no need to drill holes to secure a tank. The holes are already drilled and fitted with 'lashing points'. The lashing points are rated to hold (in total) the payload. In this example there are 6. As i think of it, most vans have 6 anyway wether its a Berlingo or a Boxer. Typical set up :
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1749769118_Screenshot at 2025-06-12 23-25-36.png)
What everyone has done for years is ignore them lashing points and drill your own new holes exactly where your tank frame is and where you want it to go . So it looks something like this..... (red is the frame and green is the new drilled holes):
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1749769304_Screenshot at 2025-06-12 23-26-12.png)
If the frame was made to fit the vehicle then you would be able to remove the lashing eye and bolt, place your frame over it and bolt your frame into the existing floor nut. There are numerous ways to adapt a frame, spreader plate pre drilled etc. But it would probably mean that your frame would only ever fit that vehicle. I.e a tank frame for a vivaro would not fit in a Ford custom etc... But thats no different than roof racks. It just means buying a frame that fits your own vehicle and utilises its existing lashing points.
I'm having fun with my green and red pen!! :
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1749769796_Screenshot at 2025-06-12 23-26-36.png)
Someone should of got onto this before me, i'm not the sharpest tool in the box !! ;D
I didn't mean to hijack this thread into a tank fitting one, but seeing as the fitting of a tank into an electric vehicle using old fashioned methods is a very difficult and costly method. And seeing as Soupy even had a custom made spec frame and still drilled through his floor i still think people are missing the very obvious, although a few of you have touched on this subject in this thread before.
Not mentioned that i can see is the price for the fitting of the tank, how much was it Vin?
Vin .
When I worked for Citroen on commercial van sales, Citroen technical never rated the lashing points as suitable to secure loads of any substance. In fact they described it as a lashing point for a cargo net to restrain small packages. At the time, no one at Citroen had a load rating spec on any lashing point in any of their vans.
Each lashing point on my Peugeot Boxer van cosists of a small plate which is spot welded to the van floor with 3 spot welds. The nut is virtually tack welded into this small plate. I don't even think they used a high tensile nut as it would loose its strength when welded.
Vans sold to furniture deliverers were fitted with additional securing brackets on the floor and down the sides. These guys didn't rate the lashing hooks either. If they did, they wouldn't go to the extra cost of adding additional securing points.
I most certainly wouldn't put any faith in these lashing hooks to secure my tank, sorry. This is my honest opinion. I'm not telling anyone what they should do. But my recommendation would be to ask the manufacturer's advice of their chosen van what the lashing points load rating is to be safe.
I'm pretty sure Vin wouldn't have gone to the expense of removing his EV'd battery if he didn't have to. He has a duty of care if he is going to make buying an EV a requirement for future franchisees.
-
Away from home at the mo but I'll measure up when I'm back and give the exact part of the floor you can't bolt through.
Vin
Won’t different vans have different battery locations though? If I were going electric it would probably be the eCustom Sport I would opt for.
Same, that’s what im going for.
Battery takes up whole floor except the 1st quarter and last quarter of the van. So right where the tank goes the battery is underneath!
I’m going to use ratchet straps to strap a flat tank down if/when I get the e custom sport.
Aye a was thinking ratchet strapping might be the only option. I’ve got an upright 500 litre tank at the moment so wouldn’t feel comfortable ratchet strapping that, but the larger footprint of a flatter tank could be a possibility?
Have you test driven the e custom sport?
I’ve only test driven the limited, was a bit slow. But great to drive.
The sport does 0-60 in around 8.5 seconds, so not too shabby.
I haven’t, but I’ve heard they are good to drive. I’ve had my diesel Sport for 6 years now and I would be very reluctant to drop down to Limited spec.
-
When I worked for Citroen on commercial van sales, Citroen technical never rated the lashing points as suitable to secure loads of any substance. In fact they described it as a lashing point for a cargo net to restrain small packages. At the time, no one at Citroen had a load rating spec on any lashing point in any of their vans.
Each lashing point on my Peugeot Boxer van cosists of a small plate which is spot welded to the van floor with 3 spot welds. The nut is virtually tack welded into this small plate. I don't even think they used a high tensile nut as it would loose its strength when welded.
Lashing point in floor :
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1749811524_Screenshot at 2025-06-13 11-43-48.png)
Unscrew it , throw away the D ring and get a longer bolt :
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1749811578_Screenshot at 2025-06-13 11-43-25.png)
According to the Peugeot Boxer manual, thats good for 500KG (each point) .
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1749811637_Screenshot at 2025-06-13 11-42-50.png)
-
The transit custom lashing points hold 500kg each spruce. A flat tank won’t go anywhere, pushed up against the bulk head and lashes down tight, it’ll be as safe as a framed upright tank.
At the end of the day, no matter how you secure the tank, you’re going to be in trouble in a high speed crash no matter what…
-
Away from home at the mo but I'll measure up when I'm back and give the exact part of the floor you can't bolt through.
Vin
Won’t different vans have different battery locations though? If I were going electric it would probably be the eCustom Sport I would opt for.
Same, that’s what im going for.
Battery takes up whole floor except the 1st quarter and last quarter of the van. So right where the tank goes the battery is underneath!
I’m going to use ratchet straps to strap a flat tank down if/when I get the e custom sport.
Aye a was thinking ratchet strapping might be the only option. I’ve got an upright 500 litre tank at the moment so wouldn’t feel comfortable ratchet strapping that, but the larger footprint of a flatter tank could be a possibility?
Have you test driven the e custom sport?
I’ve only test driven the limited, was a bit slow. But great to drive.
The sport does 0-60 in around 8.5 seconds, so not too shabby.
Whats the stopping distances like mate ?
-
Stopping distance is very good because of the regen braking. Better than diesel.
-
Stopping distance is very good because of the regen braking. Better than diesel.
Ok mate, beyond very good you don't actually know ?
I know a little bit about regen though . Regen braking does not make stopping distances better. It doesn't add extra stopping power beyond what's already available. It can't match the braking force of friction brakes, especially in emergency or high-speed stops.
'very good' ;D Can't let you be getting away with that !!
-
Stopping distance is very good because of the regen braking. Better than diesel.
Ok mate, beyond very good you don't actually know ?
I know a little bit about regen though . Regen braking does not make stopping distances better. It doesn't add extra stopping power beyond what's already available. It can't match the braking force of friction brakes, especially in emergency or high-speed stops.
'very good' ;D Can't let you be getting away with that !!
You can Google the stopping distance, I don’t really care to be honest ;D
-
What would happen if you lived high up and your battery was 100% charged and you set off for work and its all down hill? Is this the reason why they tell you to only charge the battery to 80%?
-
What would happen if you lived high up and your battery was 100% charged and you set off for work and its all down hill? Is this the reason why they tell you to only charge the battery to 80%?
Nothing would happen, except you’d use more energy going back home!
You only charge to 80% to preserve the battery health for as long as possible. Nothing wrong with charging to 100% but no need to that regularly, unless you need to for a longer trip.
-
Stopping distance is very good because of the regen braking. Better than diesel.
Regen braking is nothing to do with improving braking it just means it charges the battery whilst you are breaking
-
Stopping distance is very good because of the regen braking. Better than diesel.
Regen braking is nothing to do with improving braking it just means it charges the battery whilst you are breaking
No it really is. Trust me, I’ve test driven one.
When in one pedal mode, it’s extremely powerful at decelerating. Combined with using the brakes, it will stop much quicker than the equivalent diesel.
Ultimately you’re governed by the tyres and mechanical grip, but it stops very quickly. The regen is ‘engine braking’ but on steroids.
As soon as you’re off the throttle, the van is slowing down aggressively. No time wasted (I know it’s only half a second) between moving from accelerator to brake.
At the end of the day, who cares anyway? I literally couldn’t care less how soon the van stops. As long as it stops in a reasonable distance which literally every modern vehicle on planet earth does.
-
I've done the measurement. The battery is 105cm wide (or so - I'm not going under again to measure to the mm).
If the bolt holes on your cage are further apart than that, you can bolt through. Ours aren't, so we popped to Cheltenham to Cleevely, EV specialists, who dropped out the battery and allowed us to use their lift while we fitted the tank. Overall, the job was five and a half hours. At £100 an hour it cost £550.
Now we know what we're doing, I reckon it would be around two and a half to three hours: 45 mins for them to disconnect and drop the battery, 45 to refit and the remainder would be our fitting time. The biggest time vacuum the first go around was the endless measuring to be sure that the tank would fit and that the bolts and spreader plates wouldn't interfere with the cooling fluid pipes on top of the battery. Here's a pic of a battery to show what I mean:
(https://i.postimg.cc/Qd0xDR0r/Clipboard01.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Handful of points:
I don't care how anyone else fits their tank. All I care about is how we fit ours. There are 382,766 other threads on that subject, all exactly the same.
Braking - the only comment on that is that it stops quickly enough for me. Everything I've read on EVs says to do a proper emergency stop once a month or the brakes can seize from lack of use. When I've done that, it stopped plenty fast enough.
The only experience I have is of Stellantis EVs (they all come from the same factory so they are all the same) and a Gardiner tank (the forerunner to the Grippa offering). We chose a Stellantis EV because it was insanely, bizarrely, stupidly cheap, but they are now even cheaper - there was a 36k mile, grade A battery 2021 Citroen e-Dispatch up the other day for a buy it now of £8,500 + VAT. Potty. If Transits were even close to that we might be looking at them. A van is a tool for us; the cheaper the better.
Vin
-
I've done the measurement. The battery is 105cm wide (or so - I'm not going under again to measure to the mm).
If the bolt holes on your cage are further apart than that, you can bolt through. Ours aren't, so we popped to Cheltenham to Cleevely, EV specialists, who dropped out the battery and allowed us to use their lift while we fitted the tank. Overall, the job was five and a half hours. At £100 an hour it cost £550.
Now we know what we're doing, I reckon it would be around two and a half to three hours: 45 mins for them to disconnect and drop the battery, 45 to refit and the remainder would be our fitting time. The biggest time vacuum the first go around was the endless measuring to be sure that the tank would fit and that the bolts and spreader plates wouldn't interfere with the cooling fluid pipes on top of the battery. Here's a pic of a battery to show what I mean:
(https://i.postimg.cc/Qd0xDR0r/Clipboard01.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Handful of points:
I don't care how anyone else fits their tank. All I care about is how we fit ours. There are 382,766 other threads on that subject, all exactly the same.
So its cost you a day off work, at whatever your daily expected rate is . Then £550 to have a system fitted ? Thats cool, all i asked for and probably all anyone else expected was just like asked... the cost. We now know it was £550 .
Further ... i've highlighted it in red.... you now know what you're doing ? ;D This makes no sense to me as you didn't fit the tank.
Further again : Scared the boy the other day when I pulled into a gap in a line of 30mph traffic with a touch of vigour the other day. Great fun to drive.
I'll add nothing to that you big macho man you............... ;D
Ultimatley the takeaway i have from this is that its quite an operation to remove a van battery to enable drilling into a floor to secure a water tank. Probably not a job for a home enthusiast.
Vin
-
This makes no sense to me as you didn't fit the tank.
The clue is in the phrase "...and allowed us to use their lift while we fitted the tank."
Vin