Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Nick_Thompson on January 20, 2017, 08:40:58 am
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Out of curiosity, do any of you WFPers have a particular subzero temperature, below which you will not work?
Nick
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Out of curiosity, do any of you WFPers have a particular subzero temperature, below which you will not work?
Nick
Coldest I've worked in is -17 but we had no choice.
Cut off nowadays is -5 (today is -4)
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Yes I've worked in -5, sometimes you can't even get away with that with a bitter wind chill.
It was -2 here when I went out about 8.30am and didn't have any problems at all.
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when the water freezes in the hose!(it happened the other week on the day my engine blew up!).first window and everything froze.
went home and started later at around 1130am.
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It was showing -5 at 8am. My two employees went out at about 8:45 and got all their work done. I didn't go out until later and had no problems.
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I've not been stopped yet by cold weather. But I've only been at it 2 years. Been stopped by wind or rain but not cold
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Depends if your working with hot or cold
With webasto doesn't seem to matter -15 and beyond which is very very rare indeed
Cold water I think if you've got it defrosted and running through hose and pumps
By - 5 it doesn't like it much it will eventually freeze in the jets fans all ways freeze before pencil, depends how much you draw out
For a Few years I worked out of a Honda CR-V new. Shape and a Citroen c-crosser
I used 300 litre tank it was more insulated and warmer than in a van, as long I was quick on a job -5 wasn't too much of a problem
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-5 with no wind you can work,-1 or 2 with wind will give more problems in my experience. Spoke to 2 polers this week both cold systems and had to pack in and go home,hoses froze even when working i remember those days when the pole hose and microbore hose fitting kept freezing solid.
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If its not going to dry by the evening, then turn to ice. ITS A NO GO
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i work -2 without problems,tried to work in -5 but water freezing in jets.
i have a cold water system,which brings other problems loops in hose etc
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I'm cold water user now
Still debating putting back in the hot water wabasto heater can't make my mind up as I use a additive now, no not vision and I find it is as efficient as hot and no it doesn't colg the pipes or tank in anyway
even with with 70 meters blue exceed pole hoses on, I expected this to freeze quicker but I've been frozen in van half dozen times with -5, -4, -6
Put in air heater hour whilst having breakfast, I do have luxury of a driveway and power near by and it's good to go
But not had to post pone or move a day due to freezing conduction
So not sure enter to put back in or not
About £1000 to refit as a retro fit through the grippa cabinet
The. Yearly cost not sure
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Personally I think it's bonkers and most custards will too seeing wfp cleaners waving a stick and splashing water about in sub zero temps. Just stay in the warm is what I would do until the temp rises high enough not to cause any issues. That's also using hot/warn water as it freezes quicker than using cold.
Prolong hard frosts ground surfaces are a lot colder than the glass temp of heated properties that they are trying to wash. That means the runoff when it hits the paving, etc will turn instantly to ice. Same goes if water on any surfaces left wet does not dry up and the temp drops back down.
I've found a use for my lidl gadget after all Kev ;D
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Personally I think it's bonkers and most custards will too seeing wfp cleaners waving a stick and splashing water about in sub zero temps. Just stay in the warm is what I would do until the temp rises high enough not to cause any issues. That's also using hot/warn water as it freezes quicker than using cold.
Some of us run businesses though. ;)
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It would be funny if one of your employees try's to sue you if he slips on the ice he just created himself.
I'm sure you've done it too.... ;D
2 days ago as a quick test I threw a small glass of water on one of my paving slabs as the back garden don't get much sun until after midday. It's still got ice on it today so just goes to show how long ice can hang about. ::)roll
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It would be funny if one of your employees try's to sue you if he slips on the ice he just created himself.
I'm sure you've done it too.... ;D
2 days ago as a quick test I threw a small glass of water on one of my paving slabs as the back garden don't get much sun until after midday. It's still got ice on it today so just goes to show how long ice can hang about. ::)roll
Crazy innit.
If only there was some method of removing water from flat surfaces or defrosting ice.
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Just been out to the van to fill up, everything frozen solid. Couldn't even get the lid off the tank as that was frozen! Had to use a hammer...
You know it's cold when there's an inch of ice in the tank.
Hoping if i put a heater in now it will all be defrosted by the morning.
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Do most of you guys live in the u.k or the arctic?
Never had wfp freeze on me whilst working, and as long as there is a heater in the van overnight it doesnt freeze then either.
I dont have a bulkhead in my van which probably does help a great deal in keeping everything warm during the day
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Do most of you guys live in the u.k or the arctic?
Never had wfp freeze on me whilst working, and as long as there is a heater in the van overnight it doesnt freeze then either.
I dont have a bulkhead in my van which probably does help a great deal in keeping everything warm during the day
All week here up to until about 10am the water has been freezing on the windows.
Last night was -8, daytime temp high today was 4c but took until 2pm to reach that. Now 4.30pm and temperature is 1c.
I'm in Aldershot but certainly feels like the Arctic at the moment.
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Mad, isn't it?
Water freezing when it reaches freezing point, even when we are trying to make a living.
Just no consideration some substances >:(,
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Do most of you guys live in the u.k or the arctic?
Never had wfp freeze on me whilst working, and as long as there is a heater in the van overnight it doesnt freeze then either.
I dont have a bulkhead in my van which probably does help a great deal in keeping everything warm during the day
All week here up to until about 10am the water has been freezing on the windows.
Last night was -8, daytime temp high today was 4c but took until 2pm to reach that. Now 4.30pm and temperature is 1c.
I'm in Aldershot but certainly feels like the Arctic at the moment.
I'm only in Newbury and we haven't lost any time at all. Cold water too. Bit of freezing on the odd conservatory but not on houses.
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Do most of you guys live in the u.k or the arctic?
Never had wfp freeze on me whilst working, and as long as there is a heater in the van overnight it doesnt freeze then either.
I dont have a bulkhead in my van which probably does help a great deal in keeping everything warm during the day
All week here up to until about 10am the water has been freezing on the windows.
Last night was -8, daytime temp high today was 4c but took until 2pm to reach that. Now 4.30pm and temperature is 1c.
I'm in Aldershot but certainly feels like the Arctic at the moment.
I'm only in Newbury and we haven't lost any time at all. Cold water too. Bit of freezing on the odd conservatory but not on houses.
Jammy so-and-so.
You must be working with a subzero tds reading.
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Do most of you guys live in the u.k or the arctic?
Never had wfp freeze on me whilst working, and as long as there is a heater in the van overnight it doesnt freeze then either.
I dont have a bulkhead in my van which probably does help a great deal in keeping everything warm during the day
All week here up to until about 10am the water has been freezing on the windows.
Last night was -8, daytime temp high today was 4c but took until 2pm to reach that. Now 4.30pm and temperature is 1c.
I'm in Aldershot but certainly feels like the Arctic at the moment.
I'm only in Newbury and we haven't lost any time at all. Cold water too. Bit of freezing on the odd conservatory but not on houses.
Jammy so-and-so.
You must be working with a subzero tds reading.
Yes. Less than zero tds. No need for additives.
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It would be funny if one of your employees try's to sue you if he slips on the ice he just created himself.
I'm sure you've done it too.... ;D
2 days ago as a quick test I threw a small glass of water on one of my paving slabs as the back garden don't get much sun until after midday. It's still got ice on it today so just goes to show how long ice can hang about. ::)roll
Crazy innit.
If only there was some method of removing water from flat surfaces or defrosting ice.
Like maybe sweep any surface water away/vac it up and/or put salt down do you mean. ???
I can't be arsed with all that malarky... Do you then?
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I Just leave any water to freeze over and get back on my horse
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Floor squeegee and salt.
Mainly though, just don't wfp doors when it's cold.
Some jobs need to be done in adverse weather though. So long as you do everything reasonably practicable...
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My wife who used to be a manager at Aldi told me not to put salt grit down as you are admitting liability if there was an accident.
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You’re wife was a manager at Aldi, not a solicitor.
Not putting salt down is not acknowledging your responsibilities and is negligent.
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sometimes you ve gotta admit defeat.if the water freezes the instant it hits the ground its time to go home and either start later when the temperature rises slightly or have the whole day off.
as im still using a backpack and barrels.their frost free and ready to go.the main problem is the water freezing in the pole hose as i have 30m of it and its cold water. ;D
luckily its +2 here so no problems and im tradding a lot more ground floor windows so no worries about leaving water around that could freeze overnight leaving ice patches.
i use ice melt grit occasionally (usually for my older customers who have steep driveways as a kindly gesture)
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You’re wife was a manager at Aldi, not a solicitor.
Not putting salt down is not acknowledging your responsibilities and is negligent.
Are you a solicitor ?
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don't do a lot of residential these days but when I did I wouldn't work if it was zero or below.
on commercial nowadays it depends on the job -- if a large office block with 3 sides over say grass then no problem in any temp the other side that public use then wfp tops ... trad bottom ... brush standing water away and grit over any thing left
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You’re wife was a manager at Aldi, not a solicitor.
Not putting salt down is not acknowledging your responsibilities and is negligent.
So on that basis, last week i would had to salt grit around 3 miles of pathways and public pathways to be sure of no accidents and if somebody slipped a couple of feet away it could be proved that i tried to grit that area .
Not practical really.
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She was not a solicitor, that is quite right, but as with all multi million pound retailers they are always updated with the latest legal responsibilities, yes they have to grit all ares of there store, but where informed that as soon as you do, you are admitting liability if you miss a patch and someone slips.
I could not possibly grit all areas where i leave water so i either leave it as it is, or work another day, or later in the day.
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If I slip and kill myself on ice within Aldi premesis I'll sue them, whether there was salt down or not. They have a duty of care to their customers.
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If I slip and kill myself on ice within Aldi premesis I'll sue them, whether there was salt down or not. They have a duty of care to their customers.
Suiing from the grave, that's a new one on me!
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If I slip and kill myself on ice within Aldi premesis I'll sue them, whether there was salt down or not. They have a duty of care to their customers.
Suiing from the grave, that's a new one on me!
Can't let a wee inconvenience like death get in the way of a blame claim!
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She was not a solicitor, that is quite right, but as with all multi million pound retailers they are always updated with the latest legal responsibilities, yes they have to grit all ares of there store, but where informed that as soon as you do, you are admitting liability if you miss a patch and someone slips.
I could not possibly grit all areas where i leave water so i either leave it as it is, or work another day, or later in the day.
Or grit the places most likely to be an issue?
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She was not a solicitor, that is quite right, but as with all multi million pound retailers they are always updated with the latest legal responsibilities, yes they have to grit all ares of there store, but where informed that as soon as you do, you are admitting liability if you miss a patch and someone slips.
I could not possibly grit all areas where i leave water so i either leave it as it is, or work another day, or later in the day.
Or grit the places most likely to be an issue?
So you would sue Aldi if you slipped anywhere on there premises , but you suggest just to grit areas as a window cleaner that are most likely to be an issue? do not know how that is possible. when i got home yeserday, the road and path was frozen from my van leaking water overnight, i did not see it in the dark in the morning.
Would i be liable if somebody slipped on it?
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She was not a solicitor, that is quite right, but as with all multi million pound retailers they are always updated with the latest legal responsibilities, yes they have to grit all ares of there store, but where informed that as soon as you do, you are admitting liability if you miss a patch and someone slips.
I could not possibly grit all areas where i leave water so i either leave it as it is, or work another day, or later in the day.
Or grit the places most likely to be an issue?
So you would sue Aldi if you slipped anywhere on there premises , but you suggest just to grit areas as a window cleaner that are most likely to be an issue? do not know how that is possible. when i got home yeserday, the road and path was frozen from my van leaking water overnight, i did not see it in the dark in the morning.
Would i be liable if somebody slipped on it?
I suggested nowt. I asked a question.
Anyway, difficult to prove it was you leaking water but yes, I'd have thought so.
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You’re wife was a manager at Aldi, not a solicitor.
Not putting salt down is not acknowledging your responsibilities and is negligent.
Are you a solicitor ?
Why would I need to be a solicitor? Its common sense to minimise risk, thats what H&S is about, managing and minimising risk.
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You’re wife was a manager at Aldi, not a solicitor.
Not putting salt down is not acknowledging your responsibilities and is negligent.
So on that basis, last week i would had to salt grit around 3 miles of pathways and public pathways to be sure of no accidents and if somebody slipped a couple of feet away it could be proved that i tried to grit that area .
Not practical really.
If you’d caused or created a risk as a result of your actions, then yes. If it’s impractical to do so its time to go home.
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i did not see it in the dark in the morning.
Would i be liable if somebody slipped on it?
Ignorance is not a defence in the eyes of the law.
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Ignorance is not a defence in the eyes of the law.
I was not aware of that.
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I blade or rag doors and if water falls on a path I sweep it away and carry a broom to do so. I will also put some ice melt down on a path that I have swept.
I've got too much work to not do it. So if I only get 75% done in a day because I am faffing about, so what?
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My pump head cracked this morning due to cold weather. So another one has been ordered and i can stay in the warm for the day.
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My pump head cracked this morning due to cold weather. So another one has been ordered and i can stay in the warm for the day.
Sorry to hear that Marc. I've trashed a hot water heater before due to frost but not a pump yet, What pump is it?
Did you forget to drain it down or use some other means to frost protect your kit?
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/weather/6958131/Health-and-safety-experts-warn-dont-clear-icy-pavements-you-could-get-sued.html
However, there must be a difference between what nature does and us putting water down. If its on a path or driveway I grit it. I don't even ask as I don't want someone denying that I asked and they said no.
We called Northumbrian water out to a leak the other day. When the first team had finished digging up the pavement and repairing the leak, they threw salt all over the area where water had been flowing. That was company policy so no one slipped so couldn't sue them.
So their policy was all about a duty of care to both their customers and to themselves.
.
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My pump head cracked this morning due to cold weather. So another one has been ordered and i can stay in the warm for the day.
Sorry to hear that Marc. I've trashed a hot water heater before due to frost but not a pump yet, What pump is it?
Did you forget to drain it down or use some other means to frost protect your kit?
Yeah i must have forgotten to drain it down, hairline crack on the inlet and outlet manifold, pump was going crazy today. Took me ages to trace the issue cos it wasnt that obvious right away. Fortunately i bought the pump from Vyair and was able to order a new manifold head and seals kit.
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My pump head cracked this morning due to cold weather. So another one has been ordered and i can stay in the warm for the day.
You weren't on an Aldi car park, were you?
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Nooo. Lol i was in Pyrford today..
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Thing is, if there was a problem (someone slips and breaks their neck), the hse would not be interested in what the Lidl manager said or what it says in a daily telegraph from 7 years ago. No, what the hse will want to see is risk assessments and method statements. Firstly, were they sufficient, secondly were they followed.
If your risk assessment (or even a health and safety meeting) says don't put grit down because you might be admitting liability, my missus says so: You. Are. Screwed.
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Thing is, if there was a problem (someone slips and breaks their neck), the hse would not be interested in what the Lidl manager said or what it says in a daily telegraph from 7 years ago. No, what the hse will want to see is risk assessments and method statements. Firstly, were they sufficient, secondly were they followed.
If your risk assessment (or even a health and safety meeting) says don't put grit down because you might be admitting liability, my missus says so: You. Are. Screwed.
Your screwed either way, the only sensible option is not to put water on the ground in the first place. I wouldn't have lost more than 5 or 6 weeks in total over this last 10 years because of freezing conditions, if you cant manage or work your business around that there's something wrong with your business plan.
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Thing is, if there was a problem (someone slips and breaks their neck), the hse would not be interested in what the Lidl manager said or what it says in a daily telegraph from 7 years ago. No, what the hse will want to see is risk assessments and method statements. Firstly, were they sufficient, secondly were they followed.
If your risk assessment (or even a health and safety meeting) says don't put grit down because you might be admitting liability, my missus says so: You. Are. Screwed.
Your screwed either way, the only sensible option is not to put water on the ground in the first place. I wouldn't have lost more than 5 or 6 weeks in total over this last 10 years because of freezing conditions, if you cant manage or work your business around that there's something wrong with your business plan.
Or you live somewhere colder than SeanK
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Thing is, if there was a problem (someone slips and breaks their neck), the hse would not be interested in what the Lidl manager said or what it says in a daily telegraph from 7 years ago. No, what the hse will want to see is risk assessments and method statements. Firstly, were they sufficient, secondly were they followed.
If your risk assessment (or even a health and safety meeting) says don't put grit down because you might be admitting liability, my missus says so: You. Are. Screwed.
You do not have to write out Ra/Ms if you employ less than 5 people so that would not apply to most window cleaners, so in most cases hse would not need you to provide any such thing.
You are only required to do a visual inspection of the area before any jobs that require it.
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You are still responsible for your own and others safety though regardless if you do a rams or not.
No good saying at the start of a job it's ok when it's not or when circumstances change which can put yourself and others at risk.
Speaking of which people can do stupid things which reminds me of a pressure washing job I did when the drainage was very bad. Smarty pants thought it was a good idea to uplift the manhole cover. Then proceded to fall in it 10 mins later... It was quite a deep one as well ;D ;D
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I do not disagree but I am informing other window cleaners who employ less than 5 that HSE would not want to see a pre written RA/MS as it is not a legal requirement to have one!
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I do not disagree but I am informing other window cleaners who employ less than 5 that HSE would not want to see a pre written RA/MS as it is not a legal requirement to have one!
I didn't know that. Is it definitely correct?
From HSE:
You should carry out an assessment before you do work which presents a risk of injury or ill health.
You only need to do a risk assessment if you are an employer or a self-employed person.
It is a legal requirement for every employer and self-employed person to make an assessment of the health and safety risks arising out of their work. The purpose of the assessment is to identify what needs to be done to control health and safety risks. Regulation 3 of the Management of Health and Safety at Work Regulations 1999.
http://www.hse.gov.uk/risk/faq.htm#q8
Added after (reading it properly)
You only need to record the assessment if you have five or more employees. See 'What do I need to record?
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It is correct yes, I am not the brightest on a computer so cannot download or whatever you call it but if you type in RA/MS rse and read down you will see that you are not required to write one if employing under 5.
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It is correct yes, I am not the brightest on a computer so cannot download or whatever you call it but if you type in RA/MS rse and read down you will see that you are not required to write one if employing under 5.
You live and learn.
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Look under frequently asked questions. What do I need to record, think you should find it there
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Look under frequently asked questions. What do I need to record, think you should find it there
Aye, I see it now.