Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Simon Gerrard on March 27, 2013, 11:26:04 am
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I've got to say the service from Solutions in Cornwall is first rate. Ordered a new Sapphire Scientific (which they had to get from another supplier) and a vac motor and they were on my doorstep at 8:45 this morning, exactly as they said they would be.
I do like suppliers who do what they say they are going to do, well done Solutions.
Simon
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Of course you can't post this on their forum can you Simon ? :P :P
;D ;D
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Next day delivery!! Lets hope everyone else starts offering that soon ::)roll
And at 8.45am!! Did solutions deliver them or should you be thanking the delivery company?
And they did what they said they would do, you would think you had just handed over a wedge of money to get that amazing service
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Mike,
You're such a cynic. Didn't realise there was a ban on praising people for good service, whether it is routine or not.
Simon
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By contrast we ordered some pumps from a company for supposed next day delivery to Dunkirk. They didn't write the address correctly and the parts took ten days to arrive. If that had been Solutions, Hydramaster or Restormate you can bet your bottom dollar they would have sent another one and got the address right.
Simon
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Simon, surely you must realise that any thread that contains the words Solutions or Cornwall, cannot go untarnished here ::)roll
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I am going to test their service and products and order some 'solutions'..
What do you recommend, a multi purpose cleaner or just a sample pack ?
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go for the sample pack Hilti.... If you like any of the products and order over a certain value within a specified time, you get the cost of the sample pack redeemed.
I cannot remember the amount or time period, but am sure someone will know.
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As Hector says ..... trial pack is the way to go ;)
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Simon, surely you must realise that any thread that contains the words Solutions or Cornwall, cannot go untarnished here ::)roll
Funnily I was thinking the exact opposite, how any mention of solutions gets someone to think they need to jump to his defence ::)roll
I was only making the piont that the service Simons mentioned is not out of the ordinary and most suppliers give the same level of service.
But you need to suggest its some big dark plan to impeach solutions good name and their is some sort of them & us situation on here
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Get real Mike, I rejoined a short time ago but Simon's is the first thread I saw that was Solutions positive, it lasted a short time before it was tarnished ..... that is all I said, nothing about defence, just that a positive post had that edge taken off it ::)roll
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Anyone new to the game would go on CT and assume Solutions are the best on the planet ....... if they came on CIU, that opinion would change to the worst on the planet.
I use what I use and it gets me happy customers ......... not particularly worried what others think about the machines or solutions, they don't have to use them in my clients properties.
I do know for a fact, that 2 new starters have contacted me recently and were concerned when I told them what I use ..... they had heard they were useless and the service was non existent ....... they had only been on here, CT and la TM forum ::)roll
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I ordered a couple of back pack vacuums from Solutions a while ago that were part of a refurbished job lot.
Still waiting :o
In fairness, unlike some other companies no money was taken. I did email to chase up but never got a reply.
I'll probably receive out of the blue when no longer required.......
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A supplier will stand or fall on their service I guess.
In my limited experience all the CC suppliers I've used so far have been good.
The last one I used was Chemspec Europe - I needed something specific to them, urgently, and phoned up at about 5:30pm a couple of Fridays ago (spoke to Keith) - I was told the packing dept (and last postal pickup) had already gone home for the weekend. It still turned up Monday morning 8am though :-)
What was the service like the last time you ordered something?
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what the!! Simon i bet you'r sorry you mentioned it now! :-[ but your right when youve had brilliant service it is good to praise. :)
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what the!! Simon i bet you'r sorry you mentioned it now! :-[ but your right when youve had brilliant service it is good to praise. :)
You're right, it is but oh so typical of some to try and turn it into something else, which is shame given they could taken it in the spirit it was given.
Funny too when you think how we get referrals by people telling their friends, family and colleagues about the excellent service they got from a carpet cleaner. I suppose it's ok then ;D
Simon
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I wasn't havin a pop Simon...
I like Solutions as I have said many times...
I was referring to the fact that you are banned from C.T. ;D ;D
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Hector,
I wasn't referring to you. ;)
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You not a customer of Solutions then Mike? ;D
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You not a customer of Solutions then Mike? ;D
Russ,
How on earth did you come to that conclusion ??? ;D
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Simon
When did you place your order? Also think the other supplier need some thanks (who was that)
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To be honest I don't buy from solutions only because I prefer a one stop shop to get various chemical so I tend to shop with restormate, the funny thing is I was chatting to nick this afternoon about an insurance job we did for them. He knows I don't have any malice towards solutions
The irony of Topics like this make me smile , as the piont I made about next day delivery an customer service is exactly the same piont I made when some complemented chemspec on quick service last year.... But no one jumped to thier defence crying about picking on them .
But this topic would have been boring if I had not had a dig at Simon for bum licking nick :D
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so... you don't want to know what fusion 8 is made of any more then Mike ??
:P :P
;D ;D
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Do you know what's its made from ??? ???
You won't joke when your legs fall off and your lungs explode
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Got to say, i agree with Mike here.
Next day delevery comes standard with most carpet cleaning suppliars.
Delevery times can be luck of the draw (unless you pay extra), depends what the drivers route is like that day.
There's alot of sensitve souls on this forum ;D
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A lot of idiots too 8)
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Mike
I though one of the rules of his Insurance work Scheme was tou had to use his chemicals only ?
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Do you know what's its made from ??? ???
You won't joke when your legs fall off and your lungs explode
I don't use it..never liked the smell.. ;D ;D
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I've got to say the service from Solutions in Cornwall is first rate. Ordered a new Sapphire Scientific (which they had to get from another supplier) and a vac motor and they were on my doorstep at 8:45 this morning, exactly as they said they would be.
I do like suppliers who do what they say they are going to do, well done Solutions.
Simon
Its such a shame the company sells crap products that dont work.
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Mike
I though one of the rules of his Insurance work Scheme was tou had to use his chemicals only ?
No work was carried out, it was an inspection and we consulted with the client to just reassure them that the drying out process carried out by a previous company had solved their problem. the residual smell was just temporary and would dissipate, if we had carried out any work we would have contacted nick and ordered any appropriate supplies needed.t
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Its such a shame the company sells crap products that dont work.
In my experience it is only the crap cleaners who don't follow the instructions that can't get the products to work :P :P
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I always tell people that their solutions are foolproof ......... seems I may be incorrect ::)roll
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I've got to say the service from Solutions in Cornwall is first rate. Ordered a new Sapphire Scientific (which they had to get from another supplier) and a vac motor and they were on my doorstep at 8:45 this morning, exactly as they said they would be.
I do like suppliers who do what they say they are going to do, well done Solutions.
Simon
Its such a shame the company sells crap products that dont work.
Solutions Shockwaves and special rx spotter got me a £10 tip today (certainly not for the first time)
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Trust Straker, Nicks bed buddy to come on here and try in a vain attempt to rebuild the tattered and tarnished reputation of the Cornish crank.
I'm surprised he's managed to brain wash Simon. This beds getting bigger. You'll be running your fingers through mr Boltons beard soon.
Straker. Get back to daddy's bed, he's getting cold without you.
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It's just a wild quess, but I'm getting the feeling for some reason that Solutions aren't at the top of your 'Like' list ;D
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That's very perceptive Neil...
you must have been a copper :P
;D ;D
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'Blacky' is now our first member to benefit from our new identification process, his posting has been suspended until his corrects his user name and profile,
He can say what he likes to Chris or any other members , but its only fair that the person on the end of his comments knows whose talking
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Simon, thats how service should be, Hydramaster are the same, service is second to none. In contrast, i bought an Airflex Storm November 2011 and have had nothing but trouble with it blowing vac motors, it only comes out for the odd job as we use a truckmount, Cleansmart recieved a vac motor back on monday before 1 pm(its now Saturday) with less than 2 hours use on it, had no reply so i phoned wednesday, they hadnt even looked at it, said they would look at it thursday and call me, nobody phoned, i am still without a machine for a week, poor poor service Cleansmart. Its usually how you find the good companies service from bad, fine when you're handing over money, super fast delivery and all that, when a problem arises they don't want to know.
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Whoops dont tell Chris :-X he will paint ball him to death ;)
On a serious note Chris is obviously happy with the supply from solution uk along with alot of other guys, they do some good chemical mixes over there ( pitty they dont do the old number 3 any more never found anything that comes any where nearbthat stuff)
I like Mike prefer a one stop shop and use Restormate for most of mine or Cleaning systems uk for encap chems and hard floor chems that no one else stocks. I got to say all of them provide excellent service as does solution uk.
But and this is a big but, some suppliers give superb service and straight honest information on chemicals and products/equipment and some lets say will give information to suit their own pockets and not yours.
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i bought an Airflex Storm November 2011 and have had nothing but trouble with it blowing vac motors,
is it very common like on Jaguar ?
I will be looking for new Strom soon and this is the first opinion like that I can see over here.
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Blacky (or whoever it is) obviously does not know me that well or else he would not have posted such Scheiße but all I can say in response to his post is ....... PARP ;)
Those in the know will appreciate but unable to elaborate as it lost me my moderator post last time ::)roll
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PARP Perfectly Addicted Retail p ussey cat :D
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PARP, Professional Anal Rectifying Probing?
:-* ;D ;D
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PARP, Professional Anal Rectifying Probing?
:-* ;D ;D
;
Someone get Billy's coat ;D
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Simon, thats how service should be, Hydramaster are the same, service is second to none. In contrast, i bought an Airflex Storm November 2011 and have had nothing but trouble with it blowing vac motors, it only comes out for the odd job as we use a truckmount, Cleansmart recieved a vac motor back on monday before 1 pm(its now Saturday) with less than 2 hours use on it, had no reply so i phoned wednesday, they hadnt even looked at it, said they would look at it thursday and call me, nobody phoned, i am still without a machine for a week, poor poor service Cleansmart. Its usually how you find the good companies service from bad, fine when you're handing over money, super fast delivery and all that, when a problem arises they don't want to know.
I think its fair to say that there seems to an erratic reliability pattern reported with the 6.6 motor ... some have no issues , some have reported multiple failures .
You are the first i know of to mention the storm having these issues and there seems to have been no effort to hush you up , so if it was widespread with storm users I'd say others would have mentioned it . Its possible the 6.6 is prone to failure in certain conditions but the fact that the storm has forced cooling and no reported water ingress issues it might be less prone than machines that don't have such design features .
It would be interesting to hear Cleansmarts thoughts on the issue and 6.6 in general .
Bet Ashbys are glad they went with Electros ! so far anyway .
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As John says, maybe there are issue with 6.6 vacs ........ but water ingress can clearly be avoided, in general use, so some of the issues can be avoided !!
Not sure how long & hard they need to be run for overheating problems but I have had mine in use for 5 hours with only one 10 minute stop for refreshment & 2 refill/empties ..... that never seemed to do any overheating and was indoors without open windows (but large corridors/chambers) ;D
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I'm really surprised you never have overheating problems with all that residual hot air in that place. ;D ;)
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The thing is, with the Scorpion and the Jag, neither have cooling fans in the body , they only have small 3" round vents, I think if they were a couple of small extraction fans fitted, it might rectify the over heating problems! All the other machines i have owned have had these iincorpareted in there bodys
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My old Mytee Speedster had fans but over the years they packed up and I never noticed :o
Obviously not that needed after all :)
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My old Mytee Speedster had fans but over the years they packed up and I never noticed :o
Obviously not that needed after all :)
But Chris , isn't better to have these features than not , for the money you pay shouldn't you want as many extras and usefull features as possible .
I believe he had to practically petitioned by customers to fit a PSI gauge , the scorpion had none ... its as though hardline Jag fans would find some reason to defend the non use if a psi gauge if it was criticized .
To me its just looks a policy of building a machine as cheaply as possible .
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John, you may be right, who am I to say otherwise but I have air con in my van, although I never use it ...... I have not overheated yet ;D
Never owned a Scorpion but I know a few that have, gauge would have helped but it never hindered them. Time will tell if there is an issue with heat but mine is 17 months old now and it seems to be fine ..... I have not had internals/cut out mod yet :)
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John, you may be right, who am I to say otherwise but I have air con in my van, although I never use it ...... I have not overheated yet ;D
Never owned a Scorpion but I know a few that have, gauge would have helped but it never hindered them. Time will tell if there is an issue with heat but mine is 17 months old now and it seems to be fine ..... I have not had internals/cut out mod yet :)
well don't go paying for those internal/cutout mods , u could do them your self in 20 min with two bits of vac hose and a holesaw ...
and please don't believe you are gaining performance like those poor misguided individuals on the 6.6 thread on CT ....
I would love to hear their technical explanation on how they think they have 370cfm and 11hg , ( you have 280cfm and 9hg folks , live with it :D)
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John, I know what I believe from someone who personally tested on the cfm so neither of us should listen to propaganda ...... we are both old enough to believe our own eyes and not what prejudice others tell us ;)
If you have personally seen the cfm meter on a Jaguar 6.6, then I apologise. I can only go by performance & results that Solutions kits allows me to deliver to my clients and if the largest one is prepared to pay me three times what they pay their own contract cleaners, it can't be just my opinion :)
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Simon, thats how service should be, Hydramaster are the same, service is second to none. In contrast, i bought an Airflex Storm November 2011 and have had nothing but trouble with it blowing vac motors, it only comes out for the odd job as we use a truckmount, Cleansmart recieved a vac motor back on monday before 1 pm(its now Saturday) with less than 2 hours use on it, had no reply so i phoned wednesday, they hadnt even looked at it, said they would look at it thursday and call me, nobody phoned, i am still without a machine for a week, poor poor service Cleansmart. Its usually how you find the good companies service from bad, fine when you're handing over money, super fast delivery and all that, when a problem arises they don't want to know.
I think its fair to say that there seems to an erratic reliability pattern reported with the 6.6 motor ... some have no issues , some have reported multiple failures .
You are the first i know of to mention the storm having these issues and there seems to have been no effort to hush you up , so if it was widespread with storm users I'd say others would have mentioned it . Its possible the 6.6 is prone to failure in certain conditions but the fact that the storm has forced cooling and no reported water ingress issues it might be less prone than machines that don't have such design features .
It would be interesting to hear Cleansmarts thoughts on the issue and 6.6 in general .
Bet Ashbys are glad they went with Electros ! so far anyway .
To be honest, I dont take anyone that has three posts to thier name that serious in all fairness... He mentiones bad service but this is totally the opposite to what I and others on here have from Cleansmart over the years. Anytime that I've had parts replaced under warrenty with my previous airflex, they where all delivered free, next day and they also sent it so that it would arrive before 9.30am! Anytime I needed little things like replacement decals, wheel caps etc they where all sent to me free.
I've had nothing but great service from Matt and his team. I find it really hard to beleive that you would get anything less.
Dave mentions he's had vacs always blowing. How many is that? 2? 3? All of amtech lamb vacs are rated at 500 hours. He bought his machine in November 2011, that pretty much a year and a half ago! Its very normal/common to replacing two vacs a year on a two vac machine.
If its vac2 that your having problems with, THE ONE THATS DIRECTLY UNDER THE STACK! then its probably more likely that your sucking in alot of foam and debris and lint. Plus these vacs are alot more powerful, its an easier thing to do. My tips would be use defomer, empty more otfen, let the vacs run 5 minutes after every job and leave the lid off when not using the machine.
Please beleive me when I say I am not biased what so ever. I have only ever bought two machines from cleansmart in 3 and half years. I get all my other cleaning supplys, chems etc from another company. Just posting what I find.
Tony,
Airflex Storm user 6 months and counting of hard work and no problems what so ever. Cleans and looks fantastic!
Dont buy one if you live near me!!
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Love that last line ..... I hope the Jag haters are within my working zone now ;D
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Chris, do you have 6.6 vacs in your jag or 5.7s? I'm sure I heard someone say they had replaced the 6.6s for 5.7s on another thread.
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Mine is 6.6 and 17 months on, working hassle free ;D
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John, I know what I believe from someone who personally tested on the cfm so neither of us should listen to propaganda ...... we are both old enough to believe our own eyes and not what prejudice others tell us ;)
If you have personally seen the cfm meter on a Jaguar 6.6, then I apologise. I can only go by performance & results that Solutions kits allows me to deliver to my clients and if the largest one is prepared to pay me three times what they pay their own contract cleaners, it can't be just my opinion :)
Chris , yes i have ! skip to 4 min on this vid . :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GD-sRySlSkU
But really i don't have to see , its simply a matter of looking at the data sheet provided by Ametek and doing simple math ...
Of coarse i don't doubt you can work well this or any machine ,
But some are better build and incorporate more features for your money than others .
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The only decent Jag was series 1 3.8 roadster ops wrong forum :o
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To be honest, I dont take anyone that has three posts to thier name that serious in all fairness... He mentiones bad service but this is totally the opposite to what I and others on here have from Cleansmart ov
To be honest, I don't take anyone with there name carpet that serious in all fairness...
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Was there any theories given for your motors failing Dave .
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Its funny isnt it.. someone makes a post about good service and it get ripped to pieces! ???
lets face it... we have all been on the receiving end of good and bad service.
Chris likes his Jag and fair play... there have been people with both machine (storm and jag) with motor failure problems so this could be down to the quality of the motors and not the design of the machines?
Many of you know that i have previously owned Airflex and Jag... both good machines to be fair, what i will say is that once my jag had the larger internal vacuum hoses fitted and the silencer removed i DID notice a performance increase... but performance is not the be all and end all as we will all agree.
As for service, Nick has always served me well... same as John & Lynn Kelly, Derek Ashby and Chris Thomas.
The above mentioned people have always made me feel like my custom is welcome and that is why i continue to use their services...
Some other suppliers, one in particular i have previously had dealing with sadly lost my business and respect due to poor attitude and poor people skills.
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John, was told there was a bad batch.
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Its funny isnt it.. someone makes a post about good service and it get ripped to pieces! ???
lets face it... we have all been on the receiving end of good and bad service.
Chris likes his Jag and fair play... there have been people with both machine (storm and jag) with motor failure problems so this could be down to the quality of the motors and not the design of the machines?
Many of you know that i have previously owned Airflex and Jag... both good machines to be fair, what i will say is that once my jag had the larger internal vacuum hoses fitted and the silencer removed i DID notice a performance increase... but performance is not the be all and end all as we will all agree.
As for service, Nick has always served me well... same as John & Lynn Kelly, Derek Ashby and Chris Thomas.
The above mentioned people have always made me feel like my custom is welcome and that is why i continue to use their services...
Some other suppliers, one in particular i have previously had dealing with sadly lost my business and respect due to poor attitude and poor people skills.
Russ , the point of your post was well made , can i take you up on the hose upgrade / performance upgrade thing for the sake of it .
If you imagine two 6.6 motors setup on a bench ... connect the two vacs with a Y splitter into one hose and put a cfm gauge on it ... each 6.6 has 140cfm , so the two combined in parallel have double that 280cfm .
That is the most power those two motors will make ... as there is nothing to restrict their airflow .
Now connect a one meter piece of vac hose to each motors exhaust .... what do expect to happen ? .... absolutely nothing , airflow is unimpeded so cfm remains at 280 .
( This is what the internal hose modification is ... one meter of vac hose connected to each motor )
There is no possible way to raise CFM beyond 280cfm ...
So when see people telling others they suddenly have 370cfm ... i have to call BS !
If you see the steembrite test , they get 280cfm with the silencer on .... its a standard central vacuum muffler ... its a nonrestrictive hollow tube with foam around it , central vacuum manufactures are not to put something on to restrict the performance of they're machines .
And even if it did cause a slight loss of airflow ...it would just lower the 280 figure by a few cfm ...take it off ... up to 280 again
The muffler was removed as a precaution to see if it was a factor in motors failures .... by all accounts , motors were failing after it was removed as well so it is likely irrelevant ...and you can be sure alltec are using a muffler as they always do .
I can that conclude that the removal of the silencer add extra noise that is perceived as a performance increase ... a bit like youngster who fits a sports box to his car , hears a growl when he revs and thinks he has gained bhp ... :)
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Russ, once you do have good name, you are regular user of some forum like this one etc you will get best service even if that could make a lose of money to some supplier as you will/could post good or bad opinions. It could be stupid, realy stupid if Straker, you or someone like you guys will receive bad service, it could be slow process of killing your/supliers business.
The real opinions, the opinions you can trust are from not well known persons, persons that supplier do not expect them to be on the open forum like here.
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Russ
There isn't any supplier I know apart from Nick White who has blatently slagged off his customer over the Internett and just because he made a complaint about a problem he had with his machine
I have been in the business over ywenty years and in my eyes that isn't very proffesional
Stuart
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I Also think the fact that he was refused membership of the NCCA says it all
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I dont think anyone was getting ripped apart Russ :-\ Just a few of us found it strange to thank a suppliar for next day service dispite it being the norm in our business.
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John, was told there was a bad batch.
Hmm .. certainly the one u said that failed after a few hours could be a motor defect of some kind .
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To answer John first...
I made the mods myself and here is what i did:
I removed ALL the internal vac pipes including the ones connecting each motor to the stacks and replaced all of the smaller bore hose with 2".
I didnt measure the original factory hose but i can tell you its smaller that 1.5", anyway the original exhausts would branch into a Y 2:1 then into the silencer.
So you can see that replacing all the hose with 2" and allowing each motor to have a separate 2" exhaust straight out the back of the machine, there is no longer the restriction of the smaller hoses, 2:1 join, and silencer which whatever way you look at it was bottlenecking airflow.
I no longer own the machine so im not here to blow smoke up anyone's backside, im just saying that my jag was more powerful at the wand end than before... CFM / lift figures dont interest me... if that was the case i wouldn't of purchased the enforcer, if it feels right then its right...
With all respect to Radek and Stu... both of you have fallen out with Nick over two separate issues and the guy has a right to defend himself when the issues were made public... for a more professional approach maybe these issues should of been dealt with in private and not on a public forum :-X
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The only decent Jag was series 1 3.8 roadster ops wrong forum :o
I hope you are watching Discovery Turbo today then. ;D
http://www.discoveryuk.com/tv-guide/?type=day&style=day&channel_code=TUUK-ENG&filter=1800
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I love this trade, and I have found a number of very good, kind, knowledgeable people on this and other forums. I have dealt with only three companies, and i have recieved outstanding service from all three. Nothing has been a problem and if there was a problem then i would not for one minute air any dirty laundry on forums. What on earth have you got to gain from it? The only thing that will probably happen is you get a bad name for yourself and who will want to help you out then when you really need something urgently or advice on something?
Simon commented on what he believes was above and beyond HIS expectations and that's the crux of it.
just saying!
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Well you know what they say ? you live by the sword and so you Die by it !
Its alright for Nick if he wants to promote his machines and chemicals on Clean Talk but he must expect some critisism also and not just ban people for speaking out of turn ! its a joke realy
I have been in the carpet cleaning proffesion for some 23 years and have had quite a few hwe machines from about four different suppliers, but none of them has acted as unpofessional as Nick white when it comes to complaints ! Do you ever hear from Ashbys slagging off people on the forums ? Nio of course not yet they take a lot of stick from people on these forums about there so called bad customer service! I had three Ninjas from Ashbys over a period of eight years and if i ever had any issues withem, they would sort it , Simple
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To answer John first...
I made the mods myself and here is what i did:
I removed ALL the internal vac pipes including the ones connecting each motor to the stacks and replaced all of the smaller bore hose with 2".
I didnt measure the original factory hose but i can tell you its smaller that 1.5", anyway the original exhausts would branch into a Y 2:1 then into the silencer.
So you can see that replacing all the hose with 2" and allowing each motor to have a separate 2" exhaust straight out the back of the machine, there is no longer the restriction of the smaller hoses, 2:1 join, and silencer which whatever way you look at it was bottlenecking airflow.
I no longer own the machine so im not here to blow smoke up anyone's backside, im just saying that my jag was more powerful at the wand end than before... CFM / lift figures dont interest me... if that was the case i wouldn't of purchased the enforcer, if it feels right then its right...
With all respect to Radek and Stu... both of you have fallen out with Nick over two separate issues and the guy has a right to defend himself when the issues were made public... for a more professional approach maybe these issues should of been dealt with in private and not on a public forum :-X
So you optimized the airflow in your machine ... fine , as long as you accept that you cannot increase performance beyond my example of the motors on the bench where there are no hoses connected .
If you have 280cfm on a bench ... then putting the vacs into a machine and connecting hoses can only do one thing ,put that figure downwards or maintain it as it is .
What is being claimed elsewhere is than by fitting bigger hoses increases performance beyond what the vacs can produce without any hoses at all .
It has been clearly stated by a respected member of another forum that when he brought his machine in to get the hose upgrades it was measured at 270cfm ... and after the mods it measured around 370cfm )
So it comes down to a question of creditably and trust ..... do you believe what i'm saying or what they are claiming .... someone is wrong .
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John
What i am saying is this... the performance was good before i made the improvements, then i made the improvements and performance was better at the wand, not because it was louder and me thinking it had to be better because it was louder.
To be honest i would never go by a CFR or lift meter... its how the wand feels at the end of 100' of hose which matters.
You could compare the modifications to a tuned engine... modified air filter, bigger bore straight through exhaust system... fewer restriction and increased flow...
Anyway my Enforcer has a totally different setup being two motors in series, the exhaust and stack are 2" bore and when i operate the machine using nothing but 2" hose straight to the wand, it makes all the difference!
There is a noticeable volume increase at the wand...
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John
What i am saying is this... the performance was good before i made the improvements, then i made the improvements and performance was better at the wand, not because it was louder and me thinking it had to be better because it was louder.
To be honest i would never go by a CFR or lift meter... its how the wand feels at the end of 100' of hose which matters.
You could compare the modifications to a tuned engine... modified air filter, bigger bore straight through exhaust system... fewer restriction and increased flow...
Anyway my Enforcer has a totally different setup being two motors in series, the exhaust and stack are 2" bore and when i operate the machine using nothing but 2" hose straight to the wand, it makes all the difference!
There is a noticeable volume increase at the wand...
I disagree Russ , an improvement in performance is measurable .
The common measurement is CFM and Lift .
There is no greater airflow than when the motors are on the bench with no restriction . Your engine analogy is suggesting there is something in the airpath ... there is nothing to restrict airflow at this point .
The two 140cfm motors combine to produce 280 or so CFM .
Again ... attach any machine hoses 1" 2 " 3 " whatever you do .. and the 280 number will only either stay the same or go down ...
They have claimed a measured dramatic increase by just replacing some hoses with bigger hoses ... from 270cfm to 370cfm ( which is 100cfm more than if there was no hoses )
There is no credible explanation for this .... because it is illogical .
I
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John you keep quoting these figures... im not quoting any figures... im just stating that performance was increased at the wand... anyway i dont even own the machine anyome :)
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John you keep quoting these figures... im not quoting any figures... im just stating that performance was increased at the wand... anyway i dont even own the machine anyome :)
So what you are saying is .... you machine underperformed because it had inherent restrictions of airflow within its design ( perhaps 270cfm or so ) ... but when you upgraded your hoses you increased your machines performance to its full potential i.e 280cfm or so ...
This is not the same as the claims by other parties who state a measured increase to 370cfm and you are now distancing yourself from such claims and such parties ...
Thankyou ;D
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What i am saying and please let me make myself clear on this matter... is this:
The machine due to its silencer and smaller internal hoses was not allowing it to perform at its optimal level, and if its optimal performance is measured at 370 CFM then well i guess that's that!
How can either of us argue that those claims are false if neither of us were there at the time?
If i told you that a Ford Sierra Cosworth was capable of speeds in excess of 206 mph would you disagree just because Fords data on the vehicle says it should only do 150 mph...?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gvkk7GENhHk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gvkk7GENhHk)
With respect, if other "parties" want to test the machine out and make claims... fine who am i to argue? like i said the proof is in the pudding and if the machine performs well when used in a real life situation (not in a lab) then thats all that matters.
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John why are you so obsessed with the minutiae of portable machines vacs? really its like a nats ass difference on drying times.
Or more importantly what you can earn, I mean really, who cares?
I personally think people on this forum are way to obsessed with chemicals and machines, It's discussed to death. Neither of these are what will make or brake you in this business.
If you put as much energy into earning money you would be very wealthy AND have a lot more important advice to give on this forum.
Just my thoughts.
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What i am saying and please let me make myself clear on this matter... is this:
The machine due to its silencer and smaller internal hoses was not allowing it to perform at its optimal level, and if its optimal performance is measured at 370 CFM then well i guess that's that!
How can either of us argue that those claims are false if neither of us were there at the time?
If i told you that a Ford Sierra Cosworth was capable of speeds in excess of 206 mph would you disagree just because Fords data on the vehicle says it should only do 150 mph...?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gvkk7GENhHk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gvkk7GENhHk)
With respect, if other "parties" want to test the machine out and make claims... fine who am i to argue? like i said the proof is in the pudding and if the machine performs well when used in a real life situation (not in a lab) then thats all that matters.
Yes we can ... because we know the parameters on which our arguments are based ...
and this time your car analogy is quite fitting ...
Ford are quoting the top speed of a standard Sierra cosworth ( 150mph @200bhp )
You have posted a link of a modified more powerfull cosworth ( 206mph @ 800bhp)
We know the performance data of a 6.6 motor from Lambs lab test data sheet ..
i.e 140cfm
We can then predict the maximum for two motors in parallel 280 cfm
Just like the 800bhp cosworth , it would take a much more powerfull motor to raise cfm to levels like 370 .... playing around with hoses wont do that .
We can therefore consider the claims incredible .
Craigp .... some light reading for you :P
http://www.canavac.com/node/8
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As Russ quite rightly says ........ what the wand end of the machine does, is all that matters to my clients ::)roll
I have seen each machine on video with 'proof' of the best cfm readings known to man ........ I have also seen videos of a magician saw a woman into 3 bits and put her back together ...... so we all know anything is possible !! I can believe the face to face words from a very well respected & experienced carpet cleaner when he tells me what his machine was tested at, before and after mods........ they are on forums somewhere but I am not prone to filling each of my posts with 'copy & paste'.
I accept that this forum is run by a cleaning supplies company and there will be die hard fans of other equipment, if I wanted loads of back slapping, then I would only go where my kits is from !! I made mention in another thread about the word Solution being mentioned and how the venom starts, half of the critics have never even seen a Jaguar 6.6, let alone used one ...... I have demo'd mine to 3 carpet cleaners now and two of them are now ex- TM owners and the last was actually saying that the Jaguar 6.6 had more pull than his entry level TM. That is not BS but historical fact, so opinions on power are made when holding the wand and not on paper :-*
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I read the Cana vac website information, interesting reading for sure, the conclusion they end up with is... a single 8.4 motor gives better performance than dual motors either in parallel or series.
So if this is the case why isnt there a machine available in the UK using a single 8.4 motor?
When i was choosing my Enforcer I had the option to choose a 7.2 + 7.2 or 6.6 + 6.6, and a combination of all but ended up with two 5.7 as they were the most economical to replace and allowed me to run both motors and pump from one 13a plug.
Has an 8.4 motor been tested in wet extraction machines? can they tolerate moisture? and more importantly what is the cost of replacing them if and when they die?
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Mod note; that's uncalled for; please moderate your own posts in future.
Thanks.
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Chris Starkers? Is that another pseudonym for someone? ;D
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To be fair lads Chris is a nice and Genuine guy, he is maybe a bit pro solutions, but ive never herd him say anthing bad about anyone on here
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I wasn't dissing Chris for one minute Stuart, he has given me some sound and genuine advice when I have asked for it, but just had to laugh at some one calling him a t1t and can't even get his name right! Pot and kettle springs to mind.
;D ;D
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I read the Cana vac website information, interesting reading for sure, the conclusion they end up with is... a single 8.4 motor gives better performance than dual motors either in parallel or series.
So if this is the case why isnt there a machine available in the UK using a single 8.4 motor?
When i was choosing my Enforcer I had the option to choose a 7.2 + 7.2 or 6.6 + 6.6, and a combination of all but ended up with two 5.7 as they were the most economical to replace and allowed me to run both motors and pump from one 13a plug.
Has an 8.4 motor been tested in wet extraction machines? can they tolerate moisture? and more importantly what is the cost of replacing them if and when they die?
Russ , that site had some good points but you have to carefull how some of them are interrupted .
The central vac system they make is running a single 8.4 ... so they then make case as to why what will be better than some other systems .
You could have a 650 airwatt motor that has about 90" lift and 160cfm ( there is actually a single stage version of the 6.6 with those figures )
If you put two of those in parallel you still have 90" lift .
The point its making is that a single 8.4 has 150" lift so at the end of the working tool it will work better than that two vac system that has the high airflow but low lift .
It would be different if you had two 650airwatt motors that had say 150" lift and 120cfm in parallel as the lift would be equal to the single 8.4 but you would benefit from the increased airflow also .
It also doesn't compare the 8.4 to a twin series setup in that article .
The 8.4 is about £270 over here , in the states its selling for as little as 150 dollars in some places , it is a very good motor , 150" lift ( although iv read some had tested it at only 130 or so , I has 145cfm .... about 680 airwatts . Amp draw is also relatively low .
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There is a guy in the states called John Cobb who is currently in the process of making a twin 8.4 motor porty. Should be interesting! Interestingly he is planing on using it in series.
The fact remains it is what happens at the business end of the hose what matters.
Russ would you say your Enforcer has better/equal performance to the 6.6 machines at the wand even on long hose runs? what is the longest hose run you have used so far?
By the way I don't see how personal insults and name calling can be relevant, its a bit immature and sad really. ???
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As Russ quite rightly says ........ what the wand end of the machine does, is all that matters to my clients ::)roll
I have seen each machine on video with 'proof' of the best cfm readings known to man ........ I have also seen videos of a magician saw a woman into 3 bits and put her back together ...... so we all know anything is possible !! I can believe the face to face words from a very well respected & experienced carpet cleaner when he tells me what his machine was tested at, before and after mods........ they are on forums somewhere but I am not prone to filling each of my posts with 'copy & paste'.
Chris ... I not questioning how good your machine can clean or even how good two 6.6 motors are .... im am simply saying that the max cfm they can make is what the motors can produce .... playing around with internal hose will not increase that figure.
I know what post you are referring to on another forum ... and i have copied and pasted it here before ...
Once again .... around 280cfm is the max ..... 370 is BS .
If you want another independent opinion perhaps ask the question on an American forum ( TMF ) for example .
Ask the following .... My supplier took in a jag and measured 270cfm .... he then fitted bigger exhaust hoses and measured it again at 370 ... is this possible ?
... Watch all the Americans laugh so hard .
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Yes i agree Robin... people who make insulting comments should be kicked... maybe its time to "Clean it up" here ;D
Ok... looks like we are never going to fully agree on this whole Jag topic so rather than argue the point lets move on...
The Enforcer... it has x 1 1650w 3 stage 5.7 motor and x 1 1400w 3 stage 5.7 motor
Both motors are in series
To be fair i have only tested the machine using 50' of hose, i kind of abandoned the whole van mount idea a while back as its easier to move the machine from the vehicle to the front or rear door of the property and simply use shorter lengths of hoses.
At 50' using 2" hose the wand isnt as noisy as my jag. well that's to be expected seeing as the jag is optimized for airflow performance, the main difference is this... when you are wanding the wand really locks down tighter to the carpet... the higher lift really does help to leave fabric drier in my opinion..
Now im not convinced a single 8.4 motor would be able to out perform my current setup...
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Looking at the information john has pasted it looks as if the single 8.4 will give performance just shy of two motors in series. It looks as if the only reason they are not recommended is heat build up and possible motor failure. This cant be a major problem though as there are loads of machines out there using a series set up and they don't report abnormal motor failures on here.
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, i kind of abandoned the whole van mount idea a while back as its easier to move the machine from the vehicle to the front or rear door of the property and simply use shorter lengths of hoses.
Van mounted systems save a lot of time on filing and emptying, loading and unloading machine, pull the hoses form the hose reels sound just easier.
the higher lift really does help to leave fabric drier in my opinion..
think the same, how people can say that this is airflow which dries the carpet, B...S...., highest possible airflow on any machine would not dry the carpet much without good lift. Placing the wand on the carpet you are closing the wand hole, higher lift will make better airflow then.
If I decide to work your way It would be definitely Enforcer.
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Looking at the information john has pasted it looks as if the single 8.4 will give performance just shy of two motors in series. It looks as if the only reason they are not recommended is heat build up and possible motor failure. This cant be a major problem though as there are loads of machines out there using a series set up and they don't report abnormal motor failures on here.
Have you seen the price of a single 8.4? £250 + VAT that's a lot of dough to be lashing out when the thing pops! at least with x 2 5.7's or x 2 6.6's the chances of both motors blowing at the same time is going to be unusual plus the replacement cost is going to be around £170+VAT
Radek... most of the time i just remove the machine, a proper van mount requires a water tank of at least 200 litres (thats 200 extra kg's to carry) then all the extra hoses (more weight) then a good quality 13a extension cable reel or reels if you are running your scorpion.
I would rather take 5 mins to remove the machine than sacrifice much needed performance...
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I agree £250 is a lot to splash out. Perhaps when they are used a bit more they will come down in price.
A twin 8.4 machine would be imminence though.
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btw. just was looking on Mytee Escape, think thay have 4 x 6.6 engines.
Two in parallel and two in series, double lift comparing to the strom or Jag, and thay claim only 325CFM, so, is not possible that Storm or Jag has more than this.
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btw. just was looking on Mytee Escape, think thay have 4 x 6.6 engines.
Two in parallel and two in series, double lift comparing to the strom or Jag, and thay claim only 325CFM, so, is not possible that Storm or Jag has more than this.
Radek , the Escape is using four three stage motors made by Electro motors from the USA . They are the same company that make the motors used in the Enforcer ...
Im not sure what model is used ... it could be four of the 1600w version .
although i believe they have an 1800w version too ...
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thx, good to know
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Yes i agree Robin... people who make insulting comments should be kicked... maybe its time to "Clean it up" here ;D
Ok... looks like we are never going to fully agree on this whole Jag topic so rather than argue the point lets move on...
The Enforcer... it has x 1 1650w 3 stage 5.7 motor and x 1 1400w 3 stage 5.7 motor
Both motors are in series
To be fair i have only tested the machine using 50' of hose, i kind of abandoned the whole van mount idea a while back as its easier to move the machine from the vehicle to the front or rear door of the property and simply use shorter lengths of hoses.
At 50' using 2" hose the wand isnt as noisy as my jag. well that's to be expected seeing as the jag is optimized for airflow performance, the main difference is this... when you are wanding the wand really locks down tighter to the carpet... the higher lift really does help to leave fabric drier in my opinion..
Now im not convinced a single 8.4 motor would be able to out perform my current setup...
Did they give any reason why they cant just fit two 1650w motors ....
I mean is it because as a manufacturer they have by law to stick to 13amps per cord ?
I just cant see 15or 16 amp on a cord tripping switches .... most of the time we are on 20amp circuits .
You could try replacing the 1400w with a 1650 when the time comes i suppose .
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So in your opinion John
What would be the best motor configuration for a HWE machine...?
Bearing in mind... performance, price and reliability?
The Enforcer motors were chosen to keep within the single 13 amps... if the machine had x 2 of the 1650 w motors would this increase the performance enough to justify having to use two sockets?
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Fortunately the opinion of someone that thinks I'm a tit, via a post on a public forum, is of no consequence to me in the slightest ... PARP ;)
Maybe the surname was poor grammar or even sarcasm, both were wasted, I'm still reeling from the bit that said you read my posts ::)roll
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So in your opinion John
What would be the best motor configuration for a HWE machine...?
Bearing in mind... performance, price and reliability?
The Enforcer motors were chosen to keep within the single 13 amps... if the machine had x 2 of the 1650 w motors would this increase the performance enough to justify having to use two sockets?
My question was more ... if you had put two 1650w motors on the one cord , what do you fear would happen ? Two 1650w motors + 300w for the pump = 15.6 amps .
I cant see an extra 2 amps causing electrical problems , and add to that the fluctuations downwards caused by restriction during the cleaning process .
Best motor configuration ... quadvac . How about another two of the same motors in your Enforcer , put the immersion on a three way switch on cord two with the second motor pair . Put a check valve between the two pairs , you now have the option to use your Enforcer as a twinvac with heat .... or as a series/parallel quadvac , but still have the ability to preheat your water when vacs are off .
you could still have your inline at the wand .
As for a twin vac ... i don't know without testing at the wand whether series or parallel is better , and add to that the variety of motors available with different specs ...i can only speculate .
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Interesting... idea i have to say...
I think for a portable 4 vacs would add more weight and of course you would have to somehow keep the thing well ventilated and cool... those 4 vacs are gonna generate some heat in a confined space.
So going back to a twin vac porty, if you had lets say an Enforcer (series), which vac config would you choose?
5.7 Heavy Duty
5.7 Standard
6.6
7.2
8.4
Also same question if you had a machine designed for parallel?
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Interesting... idea i have to say...
I think for a portable 4 vacs would add more weight and of course you would have to somehow keep the thing well ventilated and cool... those 4 vacs are gonna generate some heat in a confined space.
So going back to a twin vac porty, if you had lets say an Enforcer (series), which vac config would you choose?
5.7 Heavy Duty
5.7 Standard
6.6
7.2
8.4
Also same question if you had a machine designed for parallel?
There are so many variables ! :)
You probably picked the best of what was available to you while keeping on one cord @13amps ( which i think could be exceeded )
Of all of the above i'd say a pair of 8.4s would be the most powerfull ... and they are rated at 7amp max so i would put two on one cord , don't care :)
http://www.applegate.co.uk/listings/stock/tizaro/ametek-lamb-vac-motor/12217818-2528096.html
Its probably hard to justify the cost of them though , and they would be heavier than your 5.7s ... it might also be interesting to try one as the primary series motor with one of your own 5.7s as the second .
It would be interesting to try a pair of 6.6 in series also , but not worth it if you have to go two cords perhaps .
One of the 7.2s available measures about 144" and 110cfm so thats quite a good performer also but if they are charging around £250 (woodbridges site ) then not worth it over the 5.7 you got .
Of the Electros ... until you mentioned the 1450w and 1650w i didn't know what model electro ashbys is using ... Electro also have two 1800w conical motors and a nice 1650 two stage .
If i was choosing motors for a parallel setup then perhaps the ones with the highest lift would be desirable , so i think i would choose either the 1800w electro( on a two cord ) or the 8.4 ( provided it meets it factory lift spec )
I think the quad vac is the only way of really boosting performance , it gets rid of the series vs parallel , which is best thing ... you have lots of both .
You could build a second pair of motors into a small box to sit alongside the Enforcer when needed ... put a Y splitter on the tube going from the motors to the tank stack ... route it out the side of the Enforcer ... when not used it could be just capped or have a check valve inline . The booster box could be pretty small ... large instrument case or plastic toolbox .
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Hi John
What can you tell me about the 1800 conical Electro motors? is there a huge difference in performance between the 1650 watt version?
Also if the two motors are to be placed in series, what would you be looking for in terms of each motors performance figures? high lift or high CFM?
Being "in series" the motors naturally produce higher lift so would you look for a motor which offered better CFM?
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Hi John
What can you tell me about the 1800 conical Electro motors? is there a huge difference in performance between the 1650 watt version?
Also if the two motors are to be placed in series, what would you be looking for in terms of each motors performance figures? high lift or high CFM?
Being "in series" the motors naturally produce higher lift so would you look for a motor which offered better CFM?
Thats what i would think also ... But then not many motors have both high lift and high cfm ...
The 8.4 does ... at least on paper
If you read mikeys board or TMF , larry Cobb has built this custom Mytee with two 8.4s in series that he claims is performing very well .. The lift looks a little lower than what what might be expected but you only get about 70% lift from the second vac in series i believe ... but its got the 145cfm
http://www4.cobbcarpet.com/zen/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=85&products_id=5103
http://i47.tinypic.com/15ilqt.jpg
The 6.6 is not far off the 8.4 cfm wise so it might be worth a try as a primary motor in series with the three stage ... its possible the 6.6 would overdrive the second motor giving you the 6.6 cfm with the added lift .
There was a thread here a couple of weeks ago in which what model Electros the enforcer had was discussed ... ' Fibersafe ' called it better than me ... so he must have made inquires ... how did you know that Fibersafe ;D
Mytee uses two Electro models ... codenamed c302 and c302a for 120v
Your primary motor is the c302 ( called the c304 for 230v )
http://www.steam-brite.com/electro-motor-model-q6600090amp26230v-stage-230v-flat-fanvacuum-motor-c304-p-10873.html
I believe that the first motor in the enforcer ... but it could be a slightly different model .
The other motor mytee uses is the c302a , an 1800w tapered fan design ... mytee use it in the M5 and 2005dx ... and its suppose to be in the escape .
The difference is not huge ... but by motor standards its one of the most powerfull ...
lift would be close to 150" and cfm around 117
The second two stage electro i mentioned , no manufacturer is using as yet , it measures about 125" amd 130cfm @ under 7amps .
This is my most comprehensive list of electros , iv posted it before ... they are renamed lighthouse ... the conical ones are listed as such ... dont get confused by the 220 , 230 , 240v , its all the same motor id say just reflecting differing voltage ... the ameteks are rated ' 240v so just stick to that for comparison .
And in case anyone order from here ... check they have the correct seal for wet use .
http://www.centralvacuummotor.com/lighthouse.htm
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Thanks for your interesting reply John... The Larry Cobb looks impressive in terms of performance, impressive lift and CFM figures... enough to lift a bowling ball!
At £250 per unit... can that price justify performance not much greater than the cheaper 6.6?
I am a little confused about the combined airwatt he is claiming of 1346? is this figure right because im sure the company who uses the single 8.4 in their central vac units claim that by adding two motors doesn't double the air wattage?
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Thanks for your interesting reply John... The Larry Cobb looks impressive in terms of performance, impressive lift and CFM figures... enough to lift a bowling ball!
At £250 per unit... can that price justify performance not much greater than the cheaper 6.6?
I am a little confused about the combined airwatt he is claiming of 1346? is this figure right because im sure the company who uses the single 8.4 in their central vac units claim that by adding two motors doesn't double the air wattage?
Yes , looks like he just added them up , that would not reflect the losses of the second motor , but calculating the airwatts from the total system figures should ...
Then 220x142/8.5 is a figure in the thousands ... but thats how they did it in the infamous ashbys vs airflex vids .
Hard to justify the 8.4 prices over here at present , actually i'v seen him state the lift figure as 130" on one of the forums so the 120 could be wrong .
Who tests the Motors for ashbys , is it martin .. do you remember the video they had (since removed ) of the twin 6.6 parallel vs the twin series electros ... that was the best test setup rig i have ever seen anywhere ... the wand mounted on the carpet on some sort of gantry ..lift and cfm measured at the wand .
Any way I'd imagine they would have tested the 6.6 in series also ... but they don't seem interested in using them , wonder why .
This is the only machine i think , using the 6.6 in series ...and no user reviews yet as its newly out ..
http://forum.excellent-supply.com/thread-240.html
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So after reading some of the threads on the TMF, portable machines with a series config seems to be the in thing..
Lots of talk about the Cobb dual 8.4 machine, mixed reviews about the motors though... some with early failure and some still going well even after 400 hours, as we have both noted.. lots of money right now!
That new 6.6 machine is boasting some impressive figures... 225" of lift! i agree that its all about achieving a good balance... high lift is good but so is high flow...
My Enforcer with the two previously mentioned motors, offers very acceptable performance at 50' of 2" hose, im not that hung up about how well it will perform at 100' + seeing as i remove it from my vehicle.
I guess Ashbys prefer the Electro brand... maybe better reliability compared to the Ametek motors? not sure if electro make a 6.6?
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No Electros are all 5.7 , but the conical two stage is very close in design to the 6.6 .
Its about 1/4 way down the lighthouse list ... the 6.6 is 132" and 139cfm at about 7.7 amps ( aprox ) the electro is 130" and 130cfm @ 6.9amps .
Four of the two stage would work well , in general though i'd say if the Americans had our 230v they would have lots or powerful quadvacs . They have to run twice the cords generally as us , the fact that we can have a powerfull two cord four motor setup is under exploited her ... and the motors used don't need to expensive .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVIBnuq50h4
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Yes i see... the LH6472 240v
Pretty balanced at 126" of lift and 130 CFM @ 6.9 amps
What would the figures be (approx) if you had two of these on series? also are these protected against moisture like the 6.6 with its special bearing?
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You would have to inquire , its possible they all have a seal or you might have to order one with ..
This is the 120v vertion on Cobbs site , so im sure it have a seal .
http://www4.cobbcarpet.com/zen/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=86&products_id=4884
I'd be guessing at the series figures .. but if you allow 70% lift for the second motor ,
That would be 215" and 130cfm .
and defiantly two on the one cord :)
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I think you two need to get a room. :)
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I think you two need to get a room. :)
;D ;D
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Interesting stuff this boys... stick around.. you might learn something! ;D
The model of the more powerful EM i have is : 6600-49
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Dammit , cut that out ;D
So , that's printed on the motor ?
Its the same or almost the same as the Mytee c302 / c304
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No markings on the motor... this is a EM data sheet sent to me from Alltec... i wanted the same motors in my new Express machine, the Express is very powerful!
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So otherwise they would have used two 1200w lamb in series i suppose ? not sure if they'd use two 1400w . Wonder how performance compares to yours , sounds good anyway .
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So whats the difference between the standard 5.7" Lamb and the HD version?
In english please!! ;D
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A friend popped over to mine with his Express... all i know is it is loaded with Ametek motors... when he started each motor the pitch was identical, when i started mine the pitch was very different between vacs 1 and 2.
Performance felt similar comparing the two machines.
Standard Electro motor 5.7 = 1200 w
HD Electro motor 5.7 = 1650 w
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So whats the difference between the standard 5.7" Lamb and the HD version?
In english please!! ;D
Take a three stage motor for example ...
The bigger the motor in watts , the more power ( lift ) it has and the more current (amps ) it draws .
So a 1200w could be described as standard duty .
And a 1500w could be called HD.
Its a term iv only seen in the uk , probably started by ashbys as they combine different watt motors on one cord to equal 13amps .
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Hi John ( Martin )
Can I please have your email address?
I would like to get some advice from you regarding Vac motors
warren.aldridge@gmail.com
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Sure Warren .. sent
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.....how any mention of solutions gets someone to think they need to jump to his defence
Funny that Mike (in this situation) can make a negative opinion/statement, whether his real experience or just another enemy adjenda (?) ---either way-----but no other individual can make a "Positive" statement --in their defense----based on their experience on another Supplier, and that would be immediately considered untrue and not correct?
That would be considered like speaking out of both sides on ones mouth, would it not? And only in a personal effort perhaps to justify Mikes (only) opinion.
Mike, if I were to guess, the large majority of Suppliers try their very best each and everyday, although I am sure that a small handful are exceptional in their readiness and service.
Hummmm. It is no wonder that many readers can not believe the negative.
Anyways, best to all and if I were to guess, I'll also be added to "Mikes Hit List" in the very near future within minutes!--LOL.
Ed Valentine
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Ed great to see you here and thanks for your contribution on this topic
While your looking in it would be great to get the answer 'straight from the horses mouth' that John Martin asked about how vacs can create more vacuum than the manufactures listed specification by adjusting their plumbing
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Mike;
Many sincere thanks for asking. In fact, something told me that you would reply very quickly because that is your unique nature. Thanks.
The specifications on our web site are accurate and true, period. Unless, ofcourse, you are "one of those few on the other side of the fence", as Mr Martin's interests seem to be and have been in the past. :'(
Once again, they are correct.
Case closed. ;)
Best to you and the family;
Ed Valentine
cross-american corp.
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Mike;
Many sincere thanks for asking. In fact, something told me that you would reply very quickly because that is your unique nature. Thanks.
The specifications on our web site are accurate and true, period. Unless, ofcourse, you are "one of those few on the other side of the fence", as Mr Martin's interests seem to be and have been in the past. :'(
Once again, they are correct.
Case closed. ;)
Best to you and the family;
Ed Valentine
cross-american corp.
You side stepped mikes question ...
Its always the same rhetoric from MR .V
Believe all we say and buy our machine and your a fine gentleman and a true professional .
But question out figures and discuss and critique out machine and your an internet terrorist with an agenda out to destroy our business .
Its a carpet cleaning forum ! if it was an automobile forum don't u think members would discuss performance specs .. build quality , features . and have their likes and dislikes ?
I have slated others like Ashbys for questionable performance figures ... given my opinion on machine designs i don't care for like the cfr500 for eg ..
You'd be better to listen to customers suggestions and build a machine that is beyond criticism than moaning about forum members here . :)
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What may be a great idea would be at the tacca day all the machines could be tested independently, it would at least put some unbiased figures out there and then people could make their own minds up, not forget that people may want all power some loads of power but with heat or some want a robust throw it around machine or some a power machine that can be easily lifted, that's a choice for the individual.
Shaun
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:D
Fantastic Idea!!
This would really sort out any questions and restore any lost credibility!
Ed will you be signing the Jag up for this?
Perhaps any manufacturers wishing to sign up should write their names below......
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Shaun
If memoir serves me correctly didn’t some put charley pads V tm some years ago.
Think charley won :o and it didn’t go down well ;D ;)
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John;
Or is it: Its always the same rhetoric from John Martin ????
I really doubt that most any testing is totally 100% reliable, perhaps unless it is done by the high tech equipment in the hands of the actual component manufacturer. And, the figures that ---all---fabricators of HWE equipment offer are to the very best of their knowledge , efforts, and the standard common generic equipment available. Therefore, your figures are no better than anyone elses.
Bottom line is that we all (fabricators of HWE all over the World) want desparately to please each and every customer and only desire the most truthful answers on operations and testing. Then, let the actual Operators of that equipment determine and comment on performance and if it meets their level of expectations.
Now, having stated that, does this true and independent testimonial prove anything to you other than any assumption of it being a fake? (we have a lot more if you wish):
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[i]Jaguar 6.6 is the most powerful machine I have used in 30 years of carpet cleaning ........ used to clean chamber carpets just days before the budget ...... wish I could put up photo of Jaguar 6.6 in action there (on my phone for seeing)
They have contract cleaners and they charge a third of what I do ......but they don't have the right solutions for the job [/i] -
--provided via a Professional UK operator.
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Now, I am sure that all manufacturers have positive statements from their happy operators; however, my point is logical and truthful in every respect unless you have other alternatives and/or adjendas.
Finally, what is truely interesting John, our company name and my personal name must keep you up at nights because it is very evident that everytime I post, or any other independent operator posts about their positive experience with a RECOIL, a SCORPION, or our current JAGUAR 6.6 systems, or our 6.6 vacuum motors, you are near next to post your negative comments to the contrary. I understand that you are a promoter of the competition because of your beliefs and that's perfectly fine, however, do not try to make your candle burn brighter by trying to ---always---burn ours out.
Now, please get some "positive" sleep and realize that no one, or anything is perfect in this world; unless you are sir.
Best to you and your family.
Ed Valentine
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??? So you dont want to sign up then...
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What prompted you in calling it a Jaguar ?, is it it's resemblance in the motor compartment to the Jaguar cars engineering as shown in the link below ?
http://www.performance-car-guide.co.uk/images/L-Jaguar-5-3-V12-Engine.jpg
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John;
Or is it: Its always the same rhetoric from John Martin ????
I really doubt that most any testing is totally 100% reliable, perhaps unless it is done by the high tech equipment in the hands of the actual component manufacturer. And, the figures that ---all---fabricators of HWE equipment offer are to the very best of their knowledge , efforts, and the standard common generic equipment available. Therefore, your figures are no better than anyone elses.
Bottom line is that we all (fabricators of HWE all over the World) want desparately to please each and every customer and only desire the most truthful answers on operations and testing. Then, let the actual Operators of that equipment determine and comment on performance and if it meets their level of expectations.
Now, having stated that, does this true and independent testimonial prove anything to you other than any assumption of it being a fake? (we have a lot more if you wish):
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[i]Jaguar 6.6 is the most powerful machine I have used in 30 years of carpet cleaning ........ used to clean chamber carpets just days before the budget ...... wish I could put up photo of Jaguar 6.6 in action there (on my phone for seeing)
They have contract cleaners and they charge a third of what I do ......but they don't have the right solutions for the job [/i] -
--provided via a Professional UK operator.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now, I am sure that all manufacturers have positive statements from their happy operators; however, my point is logical and truthful in every respect unless you have other alternatives and/or adjendas.
Finally, what is truely interesting John, our company name and my personal name must keep you up at nights because it is very evident that everytime I post, or any other independent operator posts about their positive experience with a RECOIL, a SCORPION, or our current JAGUAR 6.6 systems, or our 6.6 vacuum motors, you are near next to post your negative comments to the contrary. I understand that you are a promoter of the competition because of your beliefs and that's perfectly fine, however, do not try to make your candle burn brighter by trying to ---always---burn ours out.
Now, please get some "positive" sleep and realize that no one, or anything is perfect in this world; unless you are sir.
Best to you and your family.
Ed Valentine
Ed your paranoia is right up there with Kim jong ...
And your banging out the old cliche rhetoric quotes again ... the American forums are full of you saying that ' ole candle burning brighter line ' to just about anybody you disagree with .. which is just about everybody , at least you have CT to the work for you over here ... beats PM 'n newbies on TMF .
The original question was related to your UK supplier claiming 370cfm by removing the muffler ..
You don't need scientific equipment to see that that's nonsense .
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I really doubt that most any testing is totally 100% reliable, perhaps unless it is done by the high tech equipment in the hands of the actual component manufacturer. And, the figures that ---all---fabricators of HWE equipment offer are to the very best of their knowledge , efforts, and the standard common generic equipment available. Therefore, your figures are no better than anyone elses.
think that any equipment, even cheaper one, used on the same time, on the same conditions (hoses, lenghts etc) used to compare for e.g. Storm to Jaguar will be good enough. and think that no one would start any testing using cheapest gear
I really doubt that most any testing is totally 100% reliable
...but your one is reliable of course ;)
btw. if your machine is such a best machine on the world then you do not need to talk about it on the whole world internet, good stuff sales on itself.
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Exactly Radek.
btw, I didn't want to start a new topic for this but has anyone else seen Hydramaster are doing 50ft solution hose on ebay for £60 or best offer, bargain!
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I meant it to be a bit of real world test even a bit of fun perhaps just like the charlie pad system test v TM.
Shaun
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I meant it to be a bit of real world test even a bit of fun perhaps just like the charlie pad system test v TM.
Shaun
Yes probably not to be taken too serious as it wouldn't test performance on the carpet .. although you could set that up .
All you need is some gauges :)The lift gauge would be straightforward , using an anemometer for cfm might require a bit of setup .... you need the correct size funnel and calibration . The inline cfm meter like that used in ashbys videos would be simpler but as you can see it gave false reading in the ashbys vids for some reason also.
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Guys...
When i purchased my Jaguar i did so after i tried it out first... same applies to the Enforcer!
If the wand feels good at the end of 100' of hose and manages to leave the carpet clean and not wet then thats what i am interested in... Lab figures dont clean carpets!!
It is always good to keep an eye on new motors and machines, carpet cleaning machines are forever evolving which i have a genuine interest in (i know.. i need to get out more!)
I will be attending the TACCA day and i will be bringing with me two new machines to demo if anyone is interested... If anyone wants to stick their CFM and lift gauges on either machine... fine but it proves nothing as far as i am concerned!
It would be really interesting to see how each machine compares if we use the same 100' of 2" hose...
If anyone else wants to bring any one of the below machines... ?
Enforcer 400 (me)
Jaguar 6.6
Airflex Storm 6.6
Alltec Evolution
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I'd say a lift gauge could be as simple as this gauge with a few inches of hose or metal tube attached and then stuck through a halved solid rubber ball ...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vacuum-Gauge-S-Steel-case-Glycerine-filled-63mm-1-0-Bar-30-Hg-1-4-BSP-Back-/130865918973?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item1e783773fd
As for CFM ... one of these cheapos might be OK for fun comparison ... provided u got it calibrated reasonable
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LCD-Digital-Electronic-Handheld-Wind-Speed-Meter-Anemometer-Measure-Temperature-/160869153517?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item25748c7aed
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Hey Russ , check out the trick manifold on this ... allows you to switch between series and parallel ..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Z3EQ-MpUvQ
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Thats very cool... the ability to switch between parallel and series... wonder if this feature will be the new trend?
Since i have switched over from a parallel machine to the Enforcer, i have had to change my wanding slightly... i tend to keep the wand on the carpet longer without lifting off in order to maintain the lift...
I used this method today using a teflon glide on my 12" wand and found the results to be impressive...
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Thats very cool... the ability to switch between parallel and series... wonder if this feature will be the new trend?
Since i have switched over from a parallel machine to the Enforcer, i have had to change my wanding slightly... i tend to keep the wand on the carpet longer without lifting off in order to maintain the lift...
I used this method today using a teflon glide on my 12" wand and found the results to be impressive...
http://youtu.be/83qU3FKZMSw (http://youtu.be/83qU3FKZMSw)
Nice van mounting ... A petrol TM probably wouldn't have been much more efficient on that job . :)
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Thanks John
Weather conditions were unfortunately terrible that day, freezing cold wind and shot bursts of snow making the job a real pain!
The remote control was struggling to operate when i was working in the basement which was to be expected, i would most definitely recommend using 2" hose with this machine to help maintain a good amount of airflow.
Even though the basement was a good 20' below the machine, it still managed to lift the water up the stairs and back to the machines recovery tank, leaving the carpets no wetter than they would be using any one of my previous machines.
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In an effort to answer a couple comments above:
1. Having a machine that has the capability of having either cfm or inches of lift is nothing new. This was available in the late to very early 80's. It did not become popular however, that old saying; "What's old is now something New" keeps on going around for time to time.
2. In the States, having a machine with 2---3 stages with a 500-1000 psi pump would require 2 cords on a 120v circuit. Otherwise, it would be like fireworks on the fourth of July.
3. Russ Chadd always has some of the most interesting videos in this industry! Many have always tuned in to them!
Best to all;
Ed Valentine
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Ed your paranoia is right up there with Kim jong ...
---John Martin
John, no need to rant and apply those types of labels. This is supposed to be a civil and Professional board where disagreements are dealt with in a more respectful way.
We will always try, as you,toward perfect perfection. However, once again, no one including most all manufactures and Suppliers in this fine Industry do not try to pull any wool over anyones eyes. And we should not be present to try desparately to point the finger(s) at anyone to prove an adjenda or try to "sell" ones brand over that of others.
Afterall, as Russ Chadd had stated in a recent thread, he purchased his equipment based on what it would preform on the carpet which is the most important. And as far as I am aware of, the JAGUAR 6.6 Industrial system never let him down. ;)
Very best to you and others;
Ed Valentine
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Thanks Ed... your a true gent!
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Ed your paranoia is right up there with Kim jong ...
---John Martin
John, no need to rant and apply those types of labels. This is supposed to be a civil and Professional board where disagreements are dealt with in a more respectful way.
We will always try, as you,toward perfect perfection. However, once again, no one including most all manufactures and Suppliers in this fine Industry do not try to pull any wool over anyones eyes. And we should not be present to try desparately to point the finger(s) at anyone to prove an adjenda or try to "sell" ones brand over that of others.
Afterall, as Russ Chadd had stated in a recent thread, he purchased his equipment based on what it would preform on the carpet which is the most important. And as far as I am aware of, the JAGUAR 6.6 Industrial system never let him down. ;)
Very best to you and others;
Ed Valentine
Taking the higher ground Ed , i don't buy it ...
As you have said if certain customers of yours like your machine i respect their choice and judgment ...
I personally don't like the machine .. the body and waste tank mainly , based on my own user experience ...
I've seen little commitment to improve and develop the machine as I've observed with other manufactures .
There is someone in the for sale section looking for an Airflex , selling his Jag that he describes as ' god awful ' .... so are we all wrong ?
We can agree to differ if you like ... but i will rate a machine on the merit of its design as i see it and who builds it makes no difference to me . :)
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John;
Lets be fair about your opinions here.
I would be the first one to say that we can not satisfy everyone of the operators/purchasers of our equipment. And, neither could the other manufacturers out there, including the one you had named. In fact, as you already know, there are several operators of their machines that do not like them for their own reasons and may ike ours better; and visa versa.
So lets be honest once again.
You seem to put "us" to a different measurement. However, I would wager that YOU have not pleased your customers 100% as well. I'll bet you have had a few "callbacks/redo's, right? But, I wouldn't conclude that YOU are a bad cleaner or have bad equipment either because that would not be fair IMHO.
If you admit to satisfying all your customers (and they are local, not worldwide) who are only a drive away, then you would admit to me that you have had only a few limited customers.
So, come on lad, lets get real for once.
best always
Ed Valentine
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John;
Lets be fair about your opinions here.
I would be the first one to say that we can not satisfy everyone of the operators/purchasers of our equipment. And, neither could the other manufacturers out there, including the one you had named. In fact, as you already know, there are several operators of their machines that do not like them for their own reasons and may ike ours better; and visa versa.
So lets be honest once again.
You seem to put "us" to a different measurement. However, I would wager that YOU have not pleased your customers 100% as well. I'll bet you have had a few "callbacks/redo's, right? But, I wouldn't conclude that YOU are a bad cleaner or have bad equipment either because that would not be fair IMHO.
If you admit to satisfying all your customers (and they are local, not worldwide) who are only a drive away, then you would admit to me that you have had only a few limited customers.
So, come on lad, lets get real for once.
best always
Ed Valentine
If i was getting multiple repeat callbacks from different customers for mainly the same reason .. i would change my methods , invest in new equipment .. or pack the whole lot up .
But I'm not .
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Guys this is getting BORING now. All top portys are good and do the job thats why people are buying them. You can talk to death with your mates that a mondeo is better than a vectra or vice versa but at the end of the day they all do the same job,,,, and good.
Some will like one or the other machine or company. Thats people and thats life.
Enough now . Get over it. :-*
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Someone lock this thread now what started about nice service has turned into a discussion about the merits of different portables
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Hey Russ , check out the trick manifold on this ... allows you to switch between series and parallel ..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Z3EQ-MpUvQ
Hi John what is your email address?
Cheers
Russ
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Sent to you ..
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John sounds like he knows his stuff .....probably be on here with his own machine soon ::)roll
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John sounds like he knows his stuff .....probably be on here with his own machine soon ::)roll
Ha ha ! for his own use ...
there are probably others here that know as much as me about motors etc ... they just don't bother posting it .
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I'm sure John has posted this before but I bet this would be a nice machine.
http://www.steam-brite.com/dristorm-goliath-flood-extraction-machine-20gal-four-stage-vacs-flood-pumper-pressure-washer-recovery-230v-international-p-9042.html
Shaun
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I'm sure John has posted this before but I bet this would be a nice machine.
http://www.steam-brite.com/dristorm-goliath-flood-extraction-machine-20gal-four-stage-vacs-flood-pumper-pressure-washer-recovery-230v-international-p-9042.html
Shaun
its a very good machine shaun with some nice features .. look at the waste gate , its unique .
But ... It has no fresh water tank and its optimized for 120v vac wise ..ie the two stage vacs used are only about 250airwatts because 120v would draw too much current for anything more powerfull . But it could be refitted with better vacs for over here .
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It's a close to a TM I've seen as you would van mount it with a clean water tank and may be a burner, wonder if it could be done on 1 cord?
Shaun
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Thats gonna require x2 13a sockets Shaun just for the motors... with the motors plumbed in this way you get high lift and high CFM... getting closer to TM performance
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It's a close to a TM I've seen as you would van mount it with a clean water tank and may be a burner, wonder if it could be done on 1 cord?
Shaun
One cord would be pushing it even with 2stage vacs ...
With a two cord ETM quadvac you could really cable tie your two cords into one cord for convenience ... most of the time two sockets are available .. but u could split one off to an extension cord if that didn't suit from there .