Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: mike1986 on January 09, 2013, 05:52:14 pm
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Which pre-spray do you use on synthetic carpets? Im currently using WOC chemicals but just wanted to also try a few of the prochem range to compare. Is Prochem Gold any good? thanks :)
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Prespray Gold is lower pH than many, and not really as effective as some of the stronger stuff you can generally get away with on synthetics.
If you haven't tried it before, have a bash with powerburst - many find this to be the most effective prespray on the market.
It depends of course on what the soiling on the carpet is, if its lightly soiled then PB might be overkill.
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Yes ive heard great things about powerburst and im going to order some for the real dirty carpets...do you tend to use the high ph stuff for most cleans then? What if the carpet is pretty clean to begin with. Ive been using the highly rated M-POWER but tbh im not realy convinced its doing alot for me. I am very new to this though.
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SPM is now my most commonly used prespray, m-power for more sensitive fabrics. I don't think I've used PB since I bought SPM.
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Yea ive got a tub of spm, but i know with micro splitters it needs alot of aggitation and ive only got a sebo duo and a pile brush. Would i still get good results with spm do you think? or would i need a rotary to really get the best out of it? thanks
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A sebo duo and a pile brush are fine with micro spitters, i use a brush 90% of the time on domestics and customers are always telling me i am the best carpet cleaner they have used. Out of the Prochem range i use pureclean (micro splitter) on lightly soiled synthetic's , it works great on suites as well , powerburst on mid to heavy soiled synthetic/minging wool carpets , ultrapac renovate for certain carpets ie soot damage, oily/carbon jobs. I also keep some prespray gold for any very lightly soiled wool carpets. Some of there spotters are very good too.
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Can I use SPM on a wool rug what HWE pressure and how warm the pre spray and the rinse water
Today my second clean on a filthy hsl and bed it came up well but did a lot of agitation synthetic carpet
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Try powerburst, its economical so you don't have to save it for those dirty carpets.
I don't like the term heavy agitation, you could probably do a good job with plain water and heavy agitation
If at first you don't succeed move on quickly and try something else.
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multi pro on moderate soiling powerburst on a minger
gary
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Powerburst on the nasty ones and Ultrapac renovate on all others.
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Ultrapac on all others, crikey that's that really is sledge hammer time. ???
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Ultrapac is amazing stuff, be carefull though it's easy to get carried away with it. It's the crack cocaine or pringles of cleaning chems, once you start you just can't stop!!!
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Yea Powerburst the sledgehammer, Ultrapac the errr sledgehammer ???
These must have almost indentical ph levels.
I have ultra pac, powerburst or shockwave for the more sensitive i like prespray gold
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Why buy all these expensive chems?
I use simply low odour white spirit mixed with hot water and mist over traffic areas etc.
I use liquid detergent (as you would buy to wash your clothes) and put some fabric softener in to make it smell nice and it also stops any foaming issues.
Rinsed out with hot clear water.
I don't use anything else.
I used to use what you guys use but I've now saved a fortune and have had no issues whatsoever. The carpets are def cleaner and they look great.
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What's a fortune?
Chems are probably the cheapest part of a busy carpet cleaning business
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Chemicals are a small expense compared to everything else and having the correct chemical for each job is i think the professional thing to do to achieve the best results. a tub of powerburst which is widely accepted to be about the best prespray lasts me about four months and costs about £25 deduct what you pay for something developed to be used in a washing machine and i would doubt there would be any difference. these chemicals are not the same and each has its own ability to tackle certain soiling, much the same as spotting chemicals which i also have multiple chemicals each of those is good on certain stains but not others.
Ultrapac Renovate is excellent on draught marks and oily stains especially on polyprop carpets.
Powerburst is fantastic on most synthetics.
Shockwave is an enzyme prespray better suited to food and beverage spillages pubs etc but still a good allrounder.
Presray gold is a safe lower ph prespray i would use if in doubt like some rugs.
Do you tell you customers what chemicals you are using ? i would worry that these chemicals are designed to be used inside a washing machine where they are thoroughly rinsed out but when wanding the same amount of rinsing may not be applied and you could be leaving a residue that leads to rapid resoiling, just seems to be penny pinching to save a tiny amount and even that is questionable whether you are in fact saving anything.
Would you use powerburst to clean your clothes ? i very much doubt it, if not ask yourself why ! it would probably clean them better than no detergent but no where near as effective as the correct chemical designed to clean them.
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I use whatever is in the van, power burst, solution hdand regular, shock wave, bio blast, formula 90, I always acid rince with at the mo final phase, mostly use power burst, never had a prob in wool or syns
Ultra pack on filtration marks
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Andy Laurrey - you have opened up a huge new can of wotsits there mate... reminded me of a letter to Viz with helpful suggestions - something along the lines of ''I use extra strong hydrochloric acid to clean up where our cat piddles on the carpet - leaves a nice clean ring of bare floor where the carpet used to be - no carpet - no smell! simples"
good luck to you by the way but chems only get really expensive if you buy them and dont use them and stick them in the cupboard or you are very busy and use a lot and then it really does not matter anyway...
dave
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Do you tell you customers what chemicals you are using ? i would worry that these chemicals are designed to be used inside a washing machine where they are thoroughly rinsed out but when wanding the same amount of rinsing may not be applied and you could be leaving a residue that leads to rapid resoiling, just seems to be penny pinching to save a tiny amount and even that is questionable whether you are in fact saving anything.
I don't tell them what I'm using, nor do they ask. The chems are sprayed on separately and then rinsed off with plain hot water. I leave no more or less than any other detergent I would otherwise be using.
These chems are designed to clean clothes, but clothes are made of fibres, nylon or wool, just like carpets and the end results I achieve I believe are far more superior than anything else I have used, the lovely smell, soft carpets and low cost (£1 per 2 litres) is why I use them. I have seen my repeats gone up 2 fold since using liquid detergent.
Give them a try, see the results and saving's and I bet you'll be hooked too! No longer are the days I have to pay £30 - £50 for a tub of powder!!
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Why buy all these expensive chems?
I use simply low odour white spirit mixed with hot water and mist over traffic areas etc.
I use liquid detergent (as you would buy to wash your clothes) and put some fabric softener in to make it smell nice and it also stops any foaming issues.
Rinsed out with hot clear water.
I don't use anything else.
I used to use what you guys use but I've now saved a fortune and have had no issues whatsoever. The carpets are def cleaner and they look great.
I have 100x10kg sacks of washing powder under my stairs that i need shot of if your interested ;D
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I have 100x10kg sacks of washing powder under my stairs that i need shot of if your interested ;D
Jeez you must have big stairs! ;D
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Why buy all these expensive chems?
I use simply low odour white spirit mixed with hot water and mist over traffic areas etc.
I use liquid detergent (as you would buy to wash your clothes) and put some fabric softener in to make it smell nice and it also stops any foaming issues.
Rinsed out with hot clear water.
I don't use anything else.
I used to use what you guys use but I've now saved a fortune and have had no issues whatsoever. The carpets are def cleaner and they look great.
I have 100x10kg sacks of washing powder under my stairs that i need shot of if your interested ;D
No, detergent powder is no good only LIQUID detergent, sorry ::)
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Each to their own i suppose i wouldn't because as james says it's been developed for clothing not carpet but out of interest andrew do you put it your tank or pre-spray it and agitate . the other thing is if you damaged a carpet the likelyhood is your insurance wouldn't pay out
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I'd put my mortgage on it that a tub of powerburst or pure clean is far more economical than any diy products and better peforming, they are handy if you are caught short though. I bought some lavender fabric conditioner from the corner shop once near a job and the customer said it smelled amazing. ;D
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£1 PER 2 LITRES I think that is a lot
A Powerburst tub is about 4 kilos it comes with a small measuring scoop never counted how many scoops but it must be several hundred to empty the tub each scoop makes up 1 litre of prespray so it is very economical indeed. possibly between 10 and 20 pence per litre either way its very cheap so making this point on economical grounds is i think ill conceived
Also I think its impossible to determine whether you are leaving some detergent behind when cleaning a carpet, of course it is going to look much better as you said its made to clean wool and synthetics but it is also designed with the knowledge that customers who buy it are going to use it correctly in a washing machine where it will be saturated in water at the end of the cleaning cycle, the sole intention in carpet cleaning is to use as little water as possible to achieve the desired result.
The liquid stuff that goes in my washing machine is not at all economical and very expensive, oh i almost forgot the tub of Shockwave that i havehas the same dilution rate as powerburst and came in a small drum that weighs about 15 kilos and a small scoop of just 15 ml litres make up a litre of prespray cant be arsed to do the math but expect to be still using that tub for a year or two, if i could find a liquid detergent that was as good as Persil regarded as the best stuff around that costs £70 and last over a year i would buy it.
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Hi Guys
Andrew, white spirit is non ionic and will not mix with water?
Cheers
Doug
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I always thought it was anionic, which ever is does not mix with water.
Doug i think by the sounds of things Andrew has a thermyonic emission diode tonkle machine that he mixes the white spirit in to make it water soluble ;)
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I have to be honest when I read that he sprays the carpet with white spirit I thought it could not be anything else other than a wind up. I thought bthat one of the regulars had created an identity just to put up a silly post.
White spirit will disolve latex, which is what holds tufted carpets together. A totally rediculous suggestion. You are obviously not doing work on any large scale or you would have encountered a problem by now. I have come accross carpets that have been delaminated by white spirit quite a few time over the years usually where people have tried to remove paint or the likes. An adverse effect is also achieved with gel back carpets. If you think you are getting good results then have you compared them to a proffessional clean becaus, I have recleaned carpets that a plonker cleaned themselves with a rug doctor and to save buying the chemicals used washing powder and believe me the result were very different.
Peter
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White spirit will disolve latex, which is what holds tufted carpets together.
Peter
As I have already stated, I light mist over the bad areas. A light mist which would only hit the fibres ::)
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but out of interest andrew do you put it your tank or pre-spray it and agitate .
If you read my earlier post you would know the answer ;)
It's sprayed on separately, agitated and rinsed off with plain water.
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Hi Guys
Andrew, white spirit is non ionic and will not mix with water?
Cheers
Doug
Whatever happens when I put the low odour white spirit with hot water I don't really know, but all I know is that after a good shake up and spray down it does the job I want it to.
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Using the correct chemicals is better and cheaper. Have you actually read any on the replies ?
Not going to waste any more time, horses and water come to mind :P
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Not going to waste any more time, horses and water come to mind :P
I know that one: You can take a horse to water but you cannot mix it and use it as a prespray.
or something like that. ;D
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Have you actually read any on the replies ?
Yes, I have, but what do you expect me to do, ditch what I'm doing and go back to high costing powder's and chemicals and reduce my margins?
What I do is cheap, it works, and works well. Those who just read this forum and don't post may want to give it a go, you will save a fortune believe me ;)
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Andrew, I appreciate you are on a wind up but you bring up an interesting point about homemade presprays verses professional alternative and the cost savings.
its like people saying the use WD40 for oil based stains its actually cheaper to use the professional alternative, 5lts WD40 £43 v 5 lts solvent spotter is £38 (although you save £5) this is for pure solvent wd40 is 20% lubricant.
Prochem powerburst cost on average 12p in prespray to clean an average living room. if using white spirit was half the price you would be saving 6p.... on 3 jobs a day you are saving 90p a week
you must be raking it in if you consider saving 90p to be worth using white spirit :D
the main reason behind people using home made alternatives is the initial cost of professional products. they go to their supplier and buy 3 or 4 products and they have to write a cheque for £130 so would rather go to tescos and spend £20....... they think they have just saved £110.... but they can't see the total cost of constantly popping into tescos
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Chemspec Enz All has done a good job for me for years. great on blacktops :)
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Mike you can save yourself £47 per year using white spirit in your prespray, i might also try running just one vacuum motor instead of three to make them last longer, carpet will still look the same just take a few more dry strokes.
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why don't we just forget the last 30 years technology and advancements, and go back to the good old days of the late 80's ??
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I buy a lot of chems in 25 ltrs and even buying like that white spirit is about £1 per ltr. How that can be cheaper than more effective professional chemicals I do not know.
I would suggest some training, as said being non ionic the spirit will not disperse within water. The same problem is encountered rinsing with water.
Peter
www.carpetcleanercardiff.com (http://www.carpetcleanercardiff.com)
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I buy a lot of chems in 25 ltrs and even buying like that white spirit is about £1 per ltr. How that can be cheaper than more effective professional chemicals I do not know.
I would suggest some training, as said being non ionic the spirit will not disperse within water. The same problem is encountered rinsing with water.
Peter
www.carpetcleanercardiff.com (http://www.carpetcleanercardiff.com)
Over the years I have done training with Extracta, Alltec, Prochem & NCCA :D
Just finished cleaning my own hsl & lounge/diner using said product, Enrituals Passion Liquid Detergent plus the softener that goes with it. I used 10 litres of hot water mixed with 10 cupful of detergent & the same with the softener, all in all it cost me £1.00.
Sprayed on, dwelled, rinsed off. The quality of the clean is far better than I was achieving using F90 or Craftex Premium (that was 2 years ago), and the lovely smell lingers around the house for days after.
I can't fault using these products at all. I am certainly not on a wind up, I seriously use these products or similar.
To you they may seem unethical or unprofessional, but to me I use what works the best.
Don't knock it till you try it. Why not do a test on a rug or spare bit of carpet and you'll realise how effortless the cleaning will become.
Also, it probably took 30 years of technology developing the liquid detergents too, and they are designed to clean/wash nylon and wool fabrics regardless whether they are on your clothes or in your carpets!!
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Is that because Andrew Laurrey is an anagram of Wary Launderer ;D
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Well you certainly sold it well but at a quid per small job.... I'm out
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Well you certainly sold it well but at a quid per small job.... I'm out
I think thAt is very very good compared to what it was costing before in pre-sprays, detergents, spotters, etc.
I have a half a tub of F90 still on board, but as yet, I have never needed it.
Each to their own..
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So you dont use any spotters other than white spirit "in water" and a detergent in the tank strange i have about eight different spotters all of which work on different stains and spots, also have white spirit in the van use it sometimes once or twice a year
£1.00 a job on chemicals is more than i probably pay so your paying more to use inferior products, I would also bet my house Powerburst would be better than your strange concoction.
As has been pointed out by the many replies the maths simply does not add up let alone the science.
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Interesting... You mention using normal carpet cleaning agents reduces your margins?
You must be either seriously under charging or have the worlds most expensive vax to run?
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The main reason I would stick to Prochem products or suchlike is your insurance company is going to laugh down the phone at you if you screw up using washing powder and stuff to clean paint brushes.
On the other hand I use white spirit all the time (not in a spayer) and its cheaper and more effective than many commercial spotters. Also, are we not just gullible consumers like housewives who are sold the idea of a 'new improved' formula backed up by science even though its pure marketing bull?
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Wynne there might be some truth in what you say we are always looking to improve the end result and new chemicals make big claims that are not always backed up, i dont think it is a coincidence that of all the chemicals i have tried since i started i am now using the same stuff all the time now, and its also no coincidence that they are the same chemicals the vast majority are using on this forum, they work for us so we use them.
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So you dont use any spotters other than white spirit "in water" and a detergent in the tank strange i have about eight different spotters all of which work on different stains and spots, also have white spirit in the van use it sometimes once or twice a year
£1.00 a job on chemicals is more than i probably pay so your paying more to use inferior products, I would also bet my house Powerburst would be better than your strange concoction.
As has been pointed out by the many replies the maths simply does not add up let alone the science.
Only white spirit.
No, I don't use detergent in the tank, as I have already stated 3 times, chem is sprayed on and rinsed off sep.
You don't think £1 cost of chems for £120 work of work is good? ???
BTW I have been doing this job for last 27 years so I'm not some fly by night carpet cleaner :o
How many years experience do you have James?
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Interesting... You mention using normal carpet cleaning agents reduces your margins?
You must be either seriously under charging or have the worlds most expensive vax to run?
I charge £60 per hour normally, more if I can get it! ;)
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Andrew i have much less experience than you been carpet cleaning four years now and still learning.
I naively thought when i joined this forum that the wealth of combined knowledge of over 21000 members and who knows how many years of experience would be a good place to start if i wanted to learn how to clean carpets. obviously i was wrong and i apologise.
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" BTW I have been doing this job for last 27 years "
And i know a carpet cleaner who's been doing 35 years and has shrunk 5 belgian wiltons, one of them recently.
I've done hundreds with no problems in my short time of trading and he often calls me for advice!
Bad practise is bad practise even if you have been doing it for years.
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" BTW I have been doing this job for last 27 years "
!
Bad practise is bad practise even if you have been doing it for years.
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1358240702_wot e sed.gif)
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I'm in France at the moment cleaning three ships, five days each, one after the other. So far we have cleaned two of them and have used two thirds of a tub of Shockwave to do both, so £20 per ship which is peanuts in comparison to the price tag.
Would I use washing liquid to this or any other job? Not a chance in hell. The difference between washing clothes and cleaning carpet is that one is immersion cleaning where clothes are totally immersed in water and extraction cleaning is surface cleaning, two completely different methods. If you look at how many rinse cycles a washing machine goes through to flushnout the dirt and residual chemical and then compare that to the passing of a wand over a carpet you'd probably begin to worry how much of the washing liquid you are actually removing if you're using it on carpet, which should be a worry to any professional.
Simon
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Simon can you bring me some onions back with you please
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Paul,
A full necklace of them with a free French hat and a few bunches of garlic so you'll not only look like them, you'll smell like them too ;D
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I've got a dirty 3 piece tomorrow.
Where's cheapest place for brillo pads? ;D
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Aldi are doing cheap bog brushes in a variety of sizes for agitation with a new upholstery prespray, cilitfab ;D
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Brillos are better you have detergent and agitation in one.
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i might get him to do my ol womans alan wickers ;D ;D ;D ;D
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He'll be ok when one of our Asian friends asks, 'how much to WASH my carpet?' ;D
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I know this is a wind up but the health and safety aspect of spraying white spirits around from a sprayer would be a cause for concern, especially with heating systems going full blast at the moment. When we used to apply Scotchgard carpet protector one of the first priorities was to make sure boilers and electric fires were off.
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No, detergent powder is no good only LIQUID detergent, sorry ::)
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Whats wrong with the powder ? A big discounted box of Aerial should be cheaper than the liquid ...
btw , does look the same as many of the carpet powders :)
http://www.pg.com/productsafety/msds/fabric_and_homecare/detergents/Ultra_Ariel_and_Ariel_Color_Granular_Laundry_Detergent.pdf
Soda ash , surfactant , percarbonate and builder ...
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Depends on the purity and grade of the chemical ingredients ;). Household laundry detergents these days have a low/ med purity.
Can you remember many years ago when persil was discintigrating cloths, cost them millions.
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don't forget to get automatic washing powder... It doesn't foam up as much as hand washing powder.. ;D
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Prespray gold is aimed at wool carpets. Power Burst is fantastic for polypropylene and various mixes. It is a great one size fits all cleaner and pwerful at PH11. No matter what anyone says I have found that using fibre and fabric rinse when extracting does make a visible difference especially on lighter carpets. I have found most of the prochem solutions to be very effective. Trafic Lane in a strong mix is excellent for "traffic lanes" and Ultrapac renovate is unbeatable for most anything carpets walls, floors, you name it. 90% of the time I use Stain Pro, Citrus Gel and Power Burst and rinse with Fibre and Fabric Rinse with Odour fresh added. Not had an unhappy customer yet. Perhaps I should mention I use a truck mount.