Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Pope vader on December 22, 2011, 12:12:09 am
-
whats the going rate for new stafflooking to employ in feb, as going to take this business seriously next week, they wont be driving a van, just cleaning windows wfp 9-4 monday to friday
-
£8/10 an hour ;)
-
whats the going rate for new stafflooking to employ in feb, as going to take this business seriously next week, they wont be driving a van, just cleaning windows wfp 9-4 monday to friday
min wage to start with. after 3 months if they're good can add bonuses. we make them do an unpaid work trial for a week too as part of the recruitment process :o
-
a breakfeast a day works great ;D ;D
-
[quote author :)=richard speech link=topic=144148.msg1183749#msg1183749 date=1324526499]
whats the going rate for new stafflooking to employ in feb, as going to take this business seriously next week, they wont be driving a van, just cleaning windows wfp 9-4 monday to friday
min wage to start with. after 3 months if they're good can add bonuses. we make them do an unpaid work trial for a week too as part of the recruitment process :o
[/quote]Unpaid trial for week?? You having a laugh? Who in their right mind would do that??
-
Unpaid for a week ?? Must be some desperate people out there ??
If after 2 days u know they're no good do u keep em for week unpaid or let them go ?
-
The problem you will have when you first start employing, is getting the best out of your workforce and make a profit at the same time.
Remember that it will take them months to get to your speed withthe quality of clean you require, so for instance if you can clean 4 average propertys an hour, a newbie will only be able to do between 2 and 3.
So if your minimum charge is £12 per house and you pay £10 per hour, so with all the extra costs in employing (tax, ni, sickness, holiday and from next year for some companies Pensions) you will be paying out over 50% in wages.
The other problem is when they are doing nothing because of weather or breakdowns, do you send them home without pay or pay them to "push a broom around".
What I found works best is to pay a salary based on 3 to 4 days work at the minimum wage, and every 2 months pay out a bonus on the work done.
I then increase the salary rate to 4, 5 and 6 days when they can actually do what I can.
-
I think you got the newbie bit wrong,unless you are lucky with who you get.if I clean 4 houses in a hr I would expect a newbie to do one and half tops lol.
-
I think you got the newbie bit wrong,unless you are lucky with who you get.if I clean 4 houses in a hr I would expect a newbie to do one and half tops lol.
you are from the isle of wight though, funny bunch ;D
-
We pay £7.50/hr, 35 hour week, plus a bonus based on team performance which is paid every 3 months and amounts this year to just over £1000.
The wage is pretty competitive for around here as many employers are paying minimum wage.
Our normal working week is 8-4 Mon to Thurs and 7-12 Fridays (Commercial). Overtime is paid on piece rate.
-
the lad i am thinking of employing is 17, was thing of £5 ph cash in hand for 2 months to see if he can do and gets up to speed, then go legit on £6.50 an hour, a lot of the employers around here only pay min wage
the hours i wil be working are 9-4.0 monday to friday, saturday if i take on a summer job i do
-
All my guys earn me loads of dosh from day 1, if they dont then they are not the right ones, so they are down the road.
Gav was right you need to pay between £8.00 and £10.00 to retain staff, if you just pay minimum they will be off to the next easy job before you know it.
Cash in hand wont entertain it, dishonesty doesnt pay in the end in window cleaning, it will turn around and bite you on the arse
-
the lad i am thinking of employing is 17, was thing of £5 ph cash in hand for 2 months to see if he can do and gets up to speed,
I do hope you are joking ;D
If you are going to take this business seriously then start employing in a serious nature. 2 months!! you'll know within 2 days if he is ok or not :)
-
good point helen, might do a week trial and see
-
All my guys earn me loads of dosh from day 1, if they dont then they are not the right ones, so they are down the road.
Gav was right you need to pay between £8.00 and £10.00 to retain staff, if you just pay minimum they will be off to the next easy job before you know it.
Cash in hand wont entertain it, dishonesty doesnt pay in the end in window cleaning, it will turn around and bite you on the arse
i know what you are saying dave, but all your lads drive, this lad doesnt, and will only be a second man for when i am working, i tried emplying people who could drive and most are idiots, or dont actually want to work, was going to start one lad, who could drive and use to be a window cleaner, my van insurance said ok, then he admited even though he didnt have points on his license, he has just come off a drink drive ban, and my insurance said no, so thought ok, can still clean windows, then 2 weeks ago he said, cant work for you my misses wont let me incase it rains and we might not be able to work, so am staying where i am (50 hours a week for £250 working for his dad as a labourer)
-
Unpaid for a week ?? Must be some desperate people out there ??
If after 2 days u know they're no good do u keep em for week unpaid or let them go ?
hi ian,
we let them go if they arent up for it. its a waste of time having someone with you if you';re not going to keep them. need to move on and trial someone else.
there's plenty who'll do a week unpaid too. sorts out the halt arsed aplicants too. they dont even bother to show up for the trial ;D
-
Pope
There are good lads out there.
Its never cheap employing, just my van insurance is £5k
-
Pope
There are good lads out there.
Its never cheap employing, just my van insurance is £5k
how many vans is that dave
i pay 4grand for two!!
-
Pope
There are good lads out there.
Its never cheap employing, just my van insurance is £5k
how many vans is that dave
i pay 4grand for two!!
wow, i pay around 2 grand for 3 vans,
-
Pope
There are good lads out there.
Its never cheap employing, just my van insurance is £5k
:o :o :o :o
-
i used to pay 8 but now pay 7 which i feel is just right. i know a firm near me also pays that and has about 8 lads,i have 2 .
the other firm makes the lads pay for uniform and toolbelt ,no pay the first 2weeks trial period,i dont do that
-
6 vans
-
i would employ on a zero hour basis.
basically meaning 'as and when' IMO it the perfect solution as no pay when rained off, no holiday pay and no sick pay.
the catch is that the work rota is on a mutual agreement.
when i needed to employ i made sure there was mutual respect in the work force and my workers were happy with the terms.
for hourly rate i paid £6.50 per hour(1/2 hour break was not paid). TBH i feel £8-£10 is lot unless i soppose they are raking in £45+p/h
some ppl may think im a tight fisted B@$t@¬d, but i feel its not econoically viable to put them on a full/part time contract pay holiday pay when it rains, deal with sickies etc. Window cleaning does stall with the weather and if the round is full to capacity, then there no canvassing they can do, basical paying them to do nothing.
as for £6.50 i pay i thought thats the going rate.
-
i would employ on a zero hour basis.
basically meaning 'as and when' IMO it the perfect solution as no pay when rained off, no holiday pay and no sick pay.
the catch is that the work rota is on a mutual agreement.
when i needed to employ i made sure there was mutual respect in the work force and my workers were happy with the terms.
for hourly rate i paid £6.50 per hour(1/2 hour break was not paid). TBH i feel £8-£10 is lot unless i soppose they are raking in £45+p/h
some ppl may think im a tight fisted B@$t@¬d, but i feel its not econoically viable to put them on a full/part time contract pay holiday pay when it rains, deal with sickies etc. Window cleaning does stall with the weather and if the round is full to capacity, then there no canvassing they can do, basical paying them to do nothing.
as for £6.50 i pay i thought thats the going rate.
Whats your take on staff retention? i.e do you retain any on this basis?
-
yes it does.
make them hungry for the hours, if they not work hungry then i'd imaginge they would go for a non weather permited job
zero hour all the way for me
http://www.mymanagementaccountant.co.uk/2011/02/08/what-is-a-%E2%80%9Czero-hours%E2%80%9D-contract/ (http://www.mymanagementaccountant.co.uk/2011/02/08/what-is-a-%E2%80%9Czero-hours%E2%80%9D-contract/)
-
i would employ on a zero hour basis.
basically meaning 'as and when' IMO it the perfect solution as no pay when rained off, no holiday pay and no sick pay.
the catch is that the work rota is on a mutual agreement.
when i needed to employ i made sure there was mutual respect in the work force and my workers were happy with the terms.
for hourly rate i paid £6.50 per hour(1/2 hour break was not paid). TBH i feel £8-£10 is lot unless i soppose they are raking in £45+p/h
some ppl may think im a tight fisted B@$t@¬d, but i feel its not econoically viable to put them on a full/part time contract pay holiday pay when it rains, deal with sickies etc. Window cleaning does stall with the weather and if the round is full to capacity, then there no canvassing they can do, basical paying them to do nothing.
as for £6.50 i pay i thought thats the going rate.
hey steven,
not sure i;ve read your post right, but on single hr contracts you do still need to pay holiday pay and sick pay dont you?
-
yes it does.
make them hungry for the hours, if they not work hungry then i'd imaginge they would go for a non weather permited job
zero hour all the way for me
http://www.mymanagementaccountant.co.uk/2011/02/08/what-is-a-%E2%80%9Czero-hours%E2%80%9D-contract/ (http://www.mymanagementaccountant.co.uk/2011/02/08/what-is-a-%E2%80%9Czero-hours%E2%80%9D-contract/)
Hi mate. I'm not sure if English is you first language. I'm asking ....do you retain any staff on this basis?
If the answer is ...yes, then what sort of length of employment are we talking about?
-
richard speech - I thought you were on your own?
We pay a lot more than any of you guys on here (£60 a day AFTER tax) and I still do well out of my guys. They aren't going anywhere and I can take a month off if I want and still have a business to come back to.
-
i would employ on a zero hour basis.
basically meaning 'as and when' IMO it the perfect solution as no pay when rained off, no holiday pay and no sick pay.
the catch is that the work rota is on a mutual agreement.
when i needed to employ i made sure there was mutual respect in the work force and my workers were happy with the terms.
for hourly rate i paid £6.50 per hour(1/2 hour break was not paid). TBH i feel £8-£10 is lot unless i soppose they are raking in £45+p/h
some ppl may think im a tight fisted B@$t@¬d, but i feel its not econoically viable to put them on a full/part time contract pay holiday pay when it rains, deal with sickies etc. Window cleaning does stall with the weather and if the round is full to capacity, then there no canvassing they can do, basical paying them to do nothing.
as for £6.50 i pay i thought thats the going rate.
hey steven,
not sure i;ve read your post right, but on single hr contracts you do still need to pay holiday pay and sick pay dont you?
Holiday pay should be at an average taking over a period of 11 or 12 weeks. (can't quite remember the ins and outs) but yes holiday pay still has to be paid.
Sick pay is down to the employer if they want to pay or not..........we didn't
-
i would employ on a zero hour basis.
basically meaning 'as and when' IMO it the perfect solution as no pay when rained off, no holiday pay and no sick pay.
the catch is that the work rota is on a mutual agreement.
when i needed to employ i made sure there was mutual respect in the work force and my workers were happy with the terms.
for hourly rate i paid £6.50 per hour(1/2 hour break was not paid). TBH i feel £8-£10 is lot unless i soppose they are raking in £45+p/h
some ppl may think im a tight fisted B@$t@¬d, but i feel its not econoically viable to put them on a full/part time contract pay holiday pay when it rains, deal with sickies etc. Window cleaning does stall with the weather and if the round is full to capacity, then there no canvassing they can do, basical paying them to do nothing.
as for £6.50 i pay i thought thats the going rate.
hey steven,
not sure i;ve read your post right, but on single hr contracts you do still need to pay holiday pay and sick pay dont you?
Holiday pay should be at an average taking over a period of 11 or 12 weeks. (can't quite remember the ins and outs) but yes holiday pay still has to be paid.
Sick pay is down to the employer if they want to pay or not..........we didn't
Hi Helen .... only found out last week that as you say sick pay dont have to be paid by the employer but the employee can go direct to DSS ..... I think ?? ....... for it but does that go for paternity pay as well do you know ?
-
i would employ on a zero hour basis.
basically meaning 'as and when' IMO it the perfect solution as no pay when rained off, no holiday pay and no sick pay.
the catch is that the work rota is on a mutual agreement.
when i needed to employ i made sure there was mutual respect in the work force and my workers were happy with the terms.
for hourly rate i paid £6.50 per hour(1/2 hour break was not paid). TBH i feel £8-£10 is lot unless i soppose they are raking in £45+p/h
some ppl may think im a tight fisted B@$t@¬d, but i feel its not econoically viable to put them on a full/part time contract pay holiday pay when it rains, deal with sickies etc. Window cleaning does stall with the weather and if the round is full to capacity, then there no canvassing they can do, basical paying them to do nothing.
as for £6.50 i pay i thought thats the going rate.
hey steven,
not sure i;ve read your post right, but on single hr contracts you do still need to pay holiday pay and sick pay dont you?
Holiday pay should be at an average taking over a period of 11 or 12 weeks. (can't quite remember the ins and outs) but yes holiday pay still has to be paid.
Sick pay is down to the employer if they want to pay or not..........we didn't
Hi Helen .... only found out last week that as you say sick pay dont have to be paid by the employer but the employee can go direct to DSS ..... I think ?? ....... for it but does that go for paternity pay as well do you know ?
A long while since I dealt with it all, so always best to check on HMRC site.
Sick pay from DSS I believe kicks in after 3 days, The employer can pay it and claim back from HMRC. Only a minumum amount a day!
Paternity pay, I never had anyone employed that had a baby, so check out on HMRC site, probably the same, but best to check.
-
helen,i reckon u still hav a hankering to run a window biz
-
if i remember right holiday pay is over the last 13 weeks,
sick pay doesnt have to be pay and neither does paternity or maternity, if payed by the employer it can be claimed back agaist tax at 100% i think
-
richard speech - I thought you were on your own?
We pay a lot more than any of you guys on here (£60 a day AFTER tax) and I still do well out of my guys. They aren't going anywhere and I can take a month off if I want and still have a business to come back to.
hi alan,
i have a couple of businesses so have staff which cover both businesses. i work on the WC van on my own currently, that's probably where you got that impression?
R
-
If you cant pay holiday pay or find them work when it is raining then you havent got a viable business model.
I think you will find even on zero hour, employees still have rights no matter how you employ
-
on a 0 hour contract, if the employee works regualt hours then he can claim that this is his shift
-
If you cant pay holiday pay or find them work when it is raining then you havent got a viable business model.
I think you will find even on zero hour, employees still have rights no matter how you employ
Excellent post.
-
i pay mine £350 a week if they work or dont, have 28 days paid holiday. If you treat someone crap expect them to treat you and your business crap. It cost a lot of money to employ people with all the ins, stamp, vans, works out at £15 ph so make sure your pricing is correct.
-
all seems like to much hassle to employ someone, wanted some in full time so rip threw the work and then go knocking, but might just stay on my own and dump the jobs i dont want, its got to be easier
-
helen,i reckon u still hav a hankering to run a window biz
NOoooooooooooooooooooooooo ;D
-
If you cant pay holiday pay or find them work when it is raining then you havent got a viable business model.
I think you will find even on zero hour, employees still have rights no matter how you employ
Yes exactly
I don't take any rights away either, if they won't time off then they can have
Time off ( not paid though as it is zero hour) they have the right to mutually agree days worked.
Staff choose to work under these terms and its how my business works better and staff are happy with it.
-
on a 0 hour contract, if the employee works regualt hours then he can claim that this is his shift
Think you find that a usual week is weather permitted there for there are no regular hours. My staff may work 7hours one week 20 next week then maybe.30 or as low as 10.
I do know the regs but as there is no average weekly hours I see no sense paying out on a fuLl time contract .
If staff did work 30 hours average then it would be wrong in every way to put them on a zero hour as they are being treated like a full timer but without the rights.
I wouldn't do that
But as I say my staff never have a average week, so zero hour fits the bill. There happy I'm happy
-
IF i did take someone on i would not employ them direct. It would be on a self employed basis.
So, i would supply van etc give them list of work for that day wk and pay them by the hour say £10 £15 per hr.
why do i want to pay someone to have a baby etc. this is what happens in construction , i used to be a
bricklayer, why should a wc be any different thoughts please
Alan
-
if you give them van, gear, and work, then they aint self employed
-
hi santa , trust me, they can be ,we had this row in construction all the time there is certain criteria
and the goverment are going to make it even easier with newregulations.
-
if they have a cis card, but you still need to take 18% for tax
-
you would have to see the tax man who would give you info but no they pay thier own tax
u declare the gross payment that u have made to them.
-
i have seen the tax man, as have been on a inland revenue tax course (run by HMRC) when i use to have an other business, as when used cis cards had to keep 18 % and issue vouchers and they sorted out there own NI, but they can be completely self emplyed if they have there own work or work for someone else as well
-
IF i did take someone on i would not employ them direct. It would be on a self employed basis.
So, i would supply van etc give them list of work for that day wk and pay them by the hour say £10 £15 per hr.
why do i want to pay someone to have a baby etc. this is what happens in construction , i used to be a
bricklayer, why should a wc be any different thoughts please
Alan
LIDL employ the same way (so i heard) they are not window cleaners, but still its an idea that can be used in employing window cleaners, aslongs they have their own public liability insurance and you have yours plus employers insurance then whats the problem. if at the start of their work for you, you agree to pay £10 p/h then at the end of each week they invoice you for what they worked.
theres all the pros like
no sick pay
no holiday pay
no Perternaty or maternaty Pay
Hungry for the hours (rain stops play so need to get the hours in)
the cons
other job contracts more attractive
if employee has drive/ambition he/she will go and start own business (could take customers)
-
on a 0 hour contract, if the employee works regualt hours then he can claim that this is his shift
Think you find that a usual week is weather permitted there for there are no regular hours. My staff may work 7hours one week 20 next week then maybe.30 or as low as 10.
I do know the regs but as there is no average weekly hours I see no sense paying out on a fuLl time contract .
If staff did work 30 hours average then it would be wrong in every way to put them on a zero hour as they are being treated like a full timer but without the rights.
I wouldn't do that
But as I say my staff never have a average week, so zero hour fits the bill. There happy I'm happy
I dont know if your trying to make yourself out to be some sort of big time window cleaning company or something but if you are then your not reading your posts before you press the 'post' button, what your saying here is that you have your staff on a zero hour contract yet your above post mentions that they could work 4 weeks of differing hours, those hours add up to 57, then you divide that by the amount of weeks, 4, and hey presto you have 14.25 hours average hours a week, not zero.
Glad to be off assistance to you ;D
-
But as I say my staff never have a average week, so zero hour fits the bill. There happy I'm happy
Your staff are happy taking home earnings on a 7, 20 or 30 hour week? How do they get by?
-
on a 0 hour contract, if the employee works regualt hours then he can claim that this is his shift
Think you find that a usual week is weather permitted there for there are no regular hours. My staff may work 7hours one week 20 next week then maybe.30 or as low as 10.
I do know the regs but as there is no average weekly hours I see no sense paying out on a fuLl time contract .
If staff did work 30 hours average then it would be wrong in every way to put them on a zero hour as they are being treated like a full timer but without the rights.
I wouldn't do that
But as I say my staff never have a average week, so zero hour fits the bill. There happy I'm happy
I dont know if your trying to make yourself out to be some sort of big time window cleaning company or something but if you are then your not reading your posts before you press the 'post' button, what your saying here is that you have your staff on a zero hour contract yet your above post mentions that they could work 4 weeks of differing hours, those hours add up to 57, then you divide that by the amount of weeks, 4, and hey presto you have 14.25 hours average hours a week, not zero.
Glad to be off assistance to you ;D
nice to see that you been to school and know what an average is and i do know what an aveage is but in my situation zero hour is fine. and that average you came up with is only over a 4 week period the next 4 week period will have different average. yes you could add up all the hours worked in a year then divide by 52, but im not going to do that.
and no im not a big time window cleaning company i employ one person as i only need one person.
-
But as I say my staff never have a average week, so zero hour fits the bill. There happy I'm happy
Your staff are happy taking home earnings on a 7, 20 or 30 hour week? How do they get by?
he has a girlfriend and kids = benifits i suppose.
but if zero hour wasnt viable any more then i would go down the self employed route like pristine window cl mentioned. or i would rather not employ, i dont see why someone should be paid for not working
-
Maybe I have this wrong but I personally believe that you dont allow your staff's personal circumstances to influence what you pay them, this can encourage employers to pay as little as they can get away with, but you pay them what they are worth; fair days wage for a fair days work. If the minimum wage didnt exist you'd see loads of guys on here probably paying something in the region of £4.00 an hour. Not that they'd admit it of course.
-
on a 0 hour contract, if the employee works regualt hours then he can claim that this is his shift
Think you find that a usual week is weather permitted there for there are no regular hours. My staff may work 7hours one week 20 next week then maybe.30 or as low as 10.
I do know the regs but as there is no average weekly hours I see no sense paying out on a fuLl time contract .
If staff did work 30 hours average then it would be wrong in every way to put them on a zero hour as they are being treated like a full timer but without the rights.
I wouldn't do that
But as I say my staff never have a average week, so zero hour fits the bill. There happy I'm happy
I dont know if your trying to make yourself out to be some sort of big time window cleaning company or something but if you are then your not reading your posts before you press the 'post' button, what your saying here is that you have your staff on a zero hour contract yet your above post mentions that they could work 4 weeks of differing hours, those hours add up to 57, then you divide that by the amount of weeks, 4, and hey presto you have 14.25 hours average hours a week, not zero.
Glad to be off assistance to you ;D
nice to see that you been to school and know what an average is and i do know what an aveage is but in my situation zero hour is fine. and that average you came up with is only over a 4 week period the next 4 week period will have different average. yes you could add up all the hours worked in a year then divide by 52, but im not going to do that.
and no im not a big time window cleaning company i employ one person as i only need one person.
Your still not making any sense. Your not paying them an acerage wage your basically paying them what you work. A zero hour contract is that yet your saying totally different. Why not just say your paying your one member of staff what he works an he's happy with that. The reason he is probably happy is its cash in hand so can still sign on. The reason I say this is that NO other type of person would agree to what your offering as it simply wouldn't work.
Imagine your ONE staff member going the bank for a loan or mortgage an sayin he has a job but isn't sure what he will earn this year as his boss chops an changes his hours!! The bank would laugh him out the door. You should either pay him a set wage or an hourly average wage simple as that. If you can't afford to do it then something is wrong with your business plan
-
It amazes me the amount of people who claim to be professional companies, employing so and so, and building all the time.
Yet they haven't a clue.
I am only small, at the moment 2 staff, but before I even started them I sought out the advice and services of a HR Company.
I have all the paper work in place as well as updates on how the law is changing, for instance from 2012 employees and employers have to pay into a pension fund, at the moment this will only effect the big companies like OCS, but in a couple of years it will effect everyone who takes on staff and it doesn't matter if they are full/part or casual.
As for trying to get around the rules reguarding self employment, well the taxman will let you put anything on your tax returns, but when they do an investigation, you have to show that they are really self employed, if you fail then the taxman will treat them as staff and will want all the taxes, fees and penalties straightaway.
I when you think it cannot get any worse, these self employed workers will be wanting their back holiday pay plus interest.
If you are going to do something, at least do it right and legal, and when it comes to anything that I am not too sure about or an expert in, then I get backup from the experts.
-
everyone chill its xmas, we have already lost stocker,?. i was approached by, and joined
the fsb, federation of small business last yr and they told me that there where ways to employ on a self employed basis but there are rules etc , you must be a member to gain their information about £120 a year. IT CAN BE DONE. I worked in construction as a bricky
for years NEVER did I recieve holiday pay sick or for any reason if i did not work. I am only speaking for myself here as i could only use one other.
-
do u mean a CIS card, we aint in the construction industry, but could be worth a try
-
you run it your way i run mine my way, i'm happy not sure if you are though. if my staff wasnt happy he would go, zero hour suits him, i havnt mentioned hes a qualified plasterer he takes some days off to do plastering jobs (he dont like plastering tho :-\ that why he dont hve a full time job doing it)
to summerise
he takes days off when it rains and when he has other work
i suppose the self employed route would suit better.
-
everyone chill its xmas, we have already lost stocker,?. i was approached by, and joined
the fsb, federation of small business last yr and they told me that there where ways to employ on a self employed basis but there are rules etc , you must be a member to gain their information about £120 a year. IT CAN BE DONE. I worked in construction as a bricky
for years NEVER did I recieve holiday pay sick or for any reason if i did not work. I am only speaking for myself here as i could only use one other.
how does the FED work- do you go to suppers etc? how much is the ongoing costs ? what sort of work has been funnelled your way?
-
you run it your way i run mine my way, i'm happy not sure if you are though. if my staff wasnt happy he would go, zero hour suits him, i havnt mentioned hes a qualified plasterer he takes some days off to do plastering jobs (he dont like plastering tho :-\ that why he dont hve a full time job doing it)
to summerise
he takes days off when it rains and when he has other work
i suppose the self employed route would suit better.
That sounds more like it. He's really a self-employed subcontractor who takes on two different types of work as he prefers variety. You're not his employer. You are one of his customers. Apart from my own commercial and domestic customers, I currently do fairly regular (though not necessarily frequent) window cleaning work for five different cleaning/window cleaning companies and I don't regard any of them as being employers on any kind of contract. One or two of them may occasionally forget this briefly until I jog their memories but I am definitely self-employed - as is the guy who subs from you. They don't have to ask me to work for them any more. I don't have to sub from them any more. As the arrangements are regular, out of respect I would give decent warning if I no longer wished to continue and I would hope that this respect would be returned if they no longer wanted me. My sub work is done on pre-agreed prices (or in one case, a day rate as the work varies) and I take the hit if I work too slow or am unable to do a full day due to other commitments.
He should have his own PL insurance though and his own tools I believe - even if this is only on paper.
-
morning all,hi bobby its the fsb ,no gala dinners,for me anyway, they put no work your way, but no ongoing costs.
There are benefits, legal insurance included, advice if employees try to sue you etc, employment help, regs etc, if anyone does employ they should become a member, have look into it everyone.
hi santa, it would be similer to cis but i dont know exactly, just what fsb told me.
because of unemployment the goverment wish to make it easier to employ without actualy
employing them direct. it was a new eu directive some yrs back that tried to change the rules on self employment and stated that ,if a sub contracter, AND THIS IS THE WORD HERE, sub contracter.That if they set the time of work etc, But the big one was if YOU could not offer someone else to carry out the work on your behalf, that had been contracted to u personly. THEN YOU WHERE AN EMPLOYEE.
As you can imagine this sent tidal waves through the industry, many claims in court for holiday pay . Some were won some lost, this was all brought on by the union, however subbys fought back with a vengence and found loopholes in the system with fancy lawers.
Now i dont know if they have tied it up now, but as i said goverment want to make it easier
to give jobs.
So i say to those that have been EMPLOYED DIRECT in the past or present, dont know how GOOD THEY HAVE HAD IT, OR HAVE IT. unless u have a business with good contracts how could u ever honour holiday pay etc with window cleaning, not including the big boys of course.
Alan
-
Maybe I have this wrong but I personally believe that you dont allow your staff's personal circumstances to influence what you pay them, this can encourage employers to pay as little as they can get away with, but you pay them what they are worth; fair days wage for a fair days work. If the minimum wage didnt exist you'd see loads of guys on here probably paying something in the region of £4.00 an hour. Not that they'd admit it of course.
excellent post Matt. I personally am a believer in looking after anyone who works with me.
all seems like to much hassle to employ someone, wanted some in full time so rip threw the work and then go knocking, but might just stay on my own and dump the jobs i dont want, its got to be easier
I would look long and hard about employing. from the many, in all industries I know who have done it, many have gone back to 1 man bands as its so much less hassle, and itsao easy to make very little more for the extra hassle. don't get me wrong, it can be done. but is it worth it Mr vader?
I'm lucky, I know a young lad who works with me self employed. a day here or there, he works for a few friends too, and is registered self employed. I trust him 100%, look after him, and he looks after me. I pay him around 70/80 per day. with the off extra 10 or 20 on amazing days.
-
been out this morning doin g afew jobs, and gone back to using a old dual trim superlite with pencils and to be honest i enjoyed it, no more cathing the brush on stuff, so might not employ, but see what happens
-
morning all,hi bobby its the fsb ,no gala dinners,for me anyway, they put no work your way, but no ongoing costs.
There are benefits, legal insurance included, advice if employees try to sue you etc, employment help, regs etc, if anyone does employ they should become a member, have look into it everyone.
hi santa, it would be similer to cis but i dont know exactly, just what fsb told me.
because of unemployment the goverment wish to make it easier to employ without actualy
employing them direct. it was a new eu directive some yrs back that tried to change the rules on self employment and stated that ,if a sub contracter, AND THIS IS THE WORD HERE, sub contracter.That if they set the time of work etc, But the big one was if YOU could not offer someone else to carry out the work on your behalf, that had been contracted to u personly. THEN YOU WHERE AN EMPLOYEE.
As you can imagine this sent tidal waves through the industry, many claims in court for holiday pay . Some were won some lost, this was all brought on by the union, however subbys fought back with a vengence and found loopholes in the system with fancy lawers.
Now i dont know if they have tied it up now, but as i said goverment want to make it easier
to give jobs.
So i say to those that have been EMPLOYED DIRECT in the past or present, dont know how GOOD THEY HAVE HAD IT, OR HAVE IT. unless u have a business with good contracts how could u ever honour holiday pay etc with window cleaning, not including the big boys of course.
Alan
If I were to go to the letter of your post, technically I would be an employee for the bit of subbing I do on day work. The contractor states what time I should be there (though there is a bit of leeway). He also decides when I can go (though we can vary this by mutual agreement if circumstances are unusual). Also, it's me he wants there (rather than someone I nominate) because he knows I don't mess the job about and he knows that I have the experience to work within his customer's on-site safety regulations (these exceed the ones laid down in govt. H & S directives). As someone who is used to doing their own thing it can feel a bit controlling but I can live with it for one day per quarter.
It would be very difficult to classify me as someone's employee for four days per year.
-
Fsb .... have been members for yrs but be carefull with their spiel regarding self employed....
was a subby for yrs ...design contractor the law was changed or introduced IR35 to try to stop individuals working as ltd companies and claiming salary as dividends. One reason i left contracting some guys even tried off shore accounts and failed!
Lots of test cases went to court very few were won via FSB... if someone is working for you more than say part time they are usually classed as employed.. personally I would only take them on as employed (you supply van, tools and tell them which houses to clean - you dont tell them how to clean but christ we all agree its not rocket science ... if we could not get away with it in the past engineering no chance cleaning!) if they investigate you .. well good luck ... you have FSB backup but last thing I would want is HMRC all over you!!
NOT that we operate anything but legally but they rip thro everything records records!!
Good luck
Still think FSB is worthwhile ;D
-
i will look into the FSB then,once im into 2012 . im pleased to hear its not an endless round of suppers and dinner parties/lounge suits etc where i have to fork out for. cheers for the info
-
Im a member of the FSB. Never been to any of their organised get to-gethers. For me they have other benefits; those regarding taxation, thats why I became a member.
-
Im a member of the FSB. Never been to any of their organised get to-gethers. For me they have other benefits; those regarding taxation, thats why I became a member.
i have nver used it either, but I am a member, I signed up by mistake I thought it was for national fed of window cleaners at the time lol