Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: bobby p on November 02, 2011, 10:21:01 pm
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im asking cos a friend of mine can wangle me a job on a 100 room hotel,only its 4 floors . my biggest ladder can go 3 floors and i use it happily but only on houses .
this jobs not my norm as i only do houses usually but im wondering if i hired a ladder it could be a goer.
im just wanting to pick the brains of experienced laddermen , what do you charge?. the windows havent been cleaned in 8 months or more ,its a modern place
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You're talking rope ladder there mate. A good 500 quid to buy. Cost you as much to get a little portable WFP system off of eBay.
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It would be against health and safety law to do the job with ladders.
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THIS IS WHERE YOU BRING IN A FRIEND WITH WFP UP TO 60FT ;) LET ME KNOW IF YOU WANT A HAND BOBBY.
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It would be against health and safety law to do the job with ladders.
what drugs r u smoking fella
ladders aint against the law now nor ever will be >:( >:(
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It would be against health and safety law to do the job with ladders.
what drugs r u smoking fella
ladders aint against the law now nor ever will be >:( >:(
Im not so sure Gavs,aint ladders banned over a certain height in our game?
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no m8
not at all
a ladder used safely is sometimes the
most effective tool we could use ;)
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Stick a couple of Gardiners superlites on the end, and Bobs yer uncle ;D
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THIS IS WHERE YOU BRING IN A FRIEND WITH WFP UP TO 60FT ;) LET ME KNOW IF YOU WANT A HAND BOBBY.
bobby id take up the offer
unless yr greedy like me lol ;)
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please do a google search on working at heights and decide. Best practice is protect yourself from harm and work within the law.
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where in working at heights does it say ladders r banned ??????????
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in lay mans terms my friend you
will find it reads use common sense
correct me if im wrong but no where does it say
ladders r banned , get back to smoking yr crack ;D
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where in working at heights does it say ladders r banned ??????????
Take a look at latest regulations and you decide. It is always good before offering advice to make sure you the advice is correct, and will be interpreted correctly.
A life is precious, and somone took your advice and died then how would you feel ?
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if they were working for me
then they wud be highly qualified to carry out
window cleaning in all its variants ie ladders wfp
cradle bosuns chair cherry picker whatever
in the unlikely event of some one being fatally
injured working for me , then id deal with it
BUT I CAN ASSURE YOU ID BE WORKING THE NXT DAY
REGARDLESS , my bills dont stop , or neither will my children
stop eating , im sorry if anyone finds this out of order but life goes on ;)
did ocs go out of business when an employee was killed
after a fall fr heights working on a hsbc bank ???
the answer is no
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Wfp would be the only safe option to clean at that height, if you disagree then that is up to you.
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Wfp would be the only safe option to clean at that height, if you disagree then that is up to you.
And I hope you will never be able to employ because somone might die working for you, and there will be two grieving families >:(
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i do employ
firstly my operatives r highly qualifed
secondly on any given job ie lets say a
royal mail building or a cheshire council building
or a school or hospital there is on site a safetly officer
on site
or a building site or factory we have to have an induction
which covers safetly yeah
i also submit risk assecements n method statements
which implement our working pratices
and insurance details etc ,
but accidents do happen and complacencey breeds contempt
meaning iv done this a hundred times il be right .
anyone working for me or along side me knows
the buck stops with me , i control the jobs and stress how we
approach the work , but be it safely n proffessionally at
all times
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I'm not saying do it or don't. I wouldn't myself or ask anyone else to work at that height from a ladder. I think the dangers are too great. On a health and Safety note I've copied this note.
'Duty holders must:
* avoid work at height where they can;
* use work equipment or other measures to prevent falls where they cannot avoid working at height; and
* where they cannot eliminate the risk of a fall, use work equipment or other measures to minimise the distance and consequences of a fall should one occur.'
As someone pointed out a while ago on this forum. If you ended up in court because an employee had died the judge would ask if there was no other method to clean these windows. Straight away the water fed pole system would be brought up. Now if you were to argue that you couldn't afford one remember a judge would not let a gas engineer walk free if he had killed someone and then argued "I couldn't afford a corgi register." So I wouldn't presume I could tell a judge I couldn't afoord to buy a piece of safety equipment.
I would recommend though thinking about buying a small water fed pole system for this job if you are looking at seriously taking it on. It would be a massively safer and you would look so much more professional in my eyes. I imagine a hotel managers heart would stop if he came out to catch you 4 floors up in the air on a ladder. Plus imagine the difference in the reading of the risk assessment.
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using any method ,what would you say would be a ball park figure for a place like this? no big windows far as i see (picture a national budget hotel ). the hotels already got a quote in from a big boy firm so i dont want to put in a stupid looking quote.
my friend can swing it so i get the job but i dont want to ask what the other quote is as id look like a novice ! (im a hotel novice for sure but i do have a good ladderman works for me with much experience + i feel i myself and my other lad would be ok at 4th floor as we"ve been ok at 3rd floor work at least once a week )
i think id price it as a 1 off clean ,to set the scene for the future .
how do these national hotel chains pay? in these hard times i dont want to be caught out ,paid late even ,could i say in my quote its cash on completion ,paid by the front desk?
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THIS IS WHERE YOU BRING IN A FRIEND WITH WFP UP TO 60FT ;) LET ME KNOW IF YOU WANT A HAND BOBBY.
cheers fella, might bring you and yer pole in on the 4th floor
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From what i have read in the law books you can use a ladder up to any height aslong as it isn't in a fixed position for more than half an hour then cherrie pickers and scaffolding come in, this is to prevent builders and roofers etc from working dangerously at heights on ladders and juggling all there equipment and materials ontop of a ladder, but as for us window cleaners it doesn't affect us as our ladder is constantly on the move (unless you are impossibly slow).
So technically you could do the hotel if you wanted, but i personally wouldn't because i dont feel its worth the risk when there is stuff out there designed to help make jobs like this safer.
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if they were working for me
then they wud be highly qualified to carry out
window cleaning in all its variants ie ladders wfp
cradle bosuns chair cherry picker whatever
in the unlikely event of some one being fatally
injured working for me , then id deal with it
BUT I CAN ASSURE YOU ID BE WORKING THE NXT DAY
REGARDLESS , my bills dont stop , or neither will my children
stop eating , im sorry if anyone finds this out of order but life goes on ;)
did ocs go out of business when an employee was killed
after a fall fr heights working on a hsbc bank ???
the answer is no
I think you need to check the law my friend, If someone was very seriously injured let alone fatally commercially there would be a hs investigation - you would not be working next day your company operation would be shut.
On finding there was / is a safer method of cleaning and you ignored it , you would be fined heavily. If you could pay huge fine, you could then continue but with safer methods wfp.
Do you not agree regs state use 'safest method possible' ??? ??? ???
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you havent got the equipment for the job bobby.you would need at least a 40ft pole to reach 4 floors.dont be daft mate and pass the job on.
risking it at that height is just madness IMO for a few quid.
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looks like nobody here does hotels like this size ? if you do premier inn style of stuff can you gimme a ball park figure ? is £500 way too high? way too low?? is it normally cleaned outside annually or "as and when" ?
although its 4 floors high, to my mind its not a big boy job, i consider a big boy job to be bigger than this , such as tower block size.
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is £500 way too high? way too low??
We did some prem inns before they went national and id say £500 is way off the mark! Your probably looking at £100-£150.
If you have a mate whose gonna get you the job I dont think it'd make you look like a novice to ask to see the rival quotes, if you have a contact use it to the full!
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I've had a lot of experience working on hotels. Holiday inn, Crowne Plaza, malmasion, abode, best western, novotel and camponile to name a few but I've never priced one of these for myself. Thing to remember is that most of the companies quoting on hotels will have offices full of people and their wages will be taken in to consideration with quotes so I think it gives you a bit of room to be competative.
I would also say that although I've never quoted on a big hotel I would be very happy to and cofident in my skilling at pricing one up. I've quoted on office blocks this size and been the successful bidder and made a good profit on them so I'd be happy to quote a hotel.
I would quote it the same a you would for any other building. Don't estimate an hourly rate as you could be miles out. I would go with the price per window, for example.
The hotel has 100 rooms, say for arguements sake 25 rooms on each floor with one window per room. 25 on the first, 25 on the second, etc. The fed say charge a pound for a first floor window, £1.50 for a second floor and goes up by 50 pence per floor. so with this you would look at £25 the first, £37.50 the second, £50 the third and £62.5 which equals £175 and any bars, restaurants and entrance areas on the ground floor.
Remember this is a guide. Once you have worked out the price I'd stand back and have a think. Maybe you feel the window are big ones and you may want to price a little more per window.
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THIS IS WHERE YOU BRING IN A FRIEND WITH WFP UP TO 60FT ;) LET ME KNOW IF YOU WANT A HAND BOBBY.
cheers fella, might bring you and yer pole in on the 4th floor
No problem Bobby let me know if you get it and want a hand. Dan
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I clean hotels and price for how long it's going to take and how much i would like for my time.There are a few things to take into consideration.Guest get in the way,so we use that red white tape to shut of areas.coaches turn up again guest get in the way.The hotelsdont normaly let us arrive before 10 am
On the ladder issue debate on my issurance there is a clause stating a certain hieght for ladder work.As we use wfp also i'm not sure what the height is though.Anyone else looked on there PL to see if there is a clause ?
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bobby
gav is right about regs ie common sense.
everyone is forgetting here do you really think a big chain hotal company will allow you to use ladders too 4 stories.
they certainly would accept a quote from a more expensive company that uses WFP.
If you cant get a mate, or buy a cheap WFP set mate just walk away to live another day there is no point take silly risks for a couple hundred pound.
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Check your insurance. Some comps only do 15ft some 25ft.
Dont know any that do 30+ feet but their must be a few.
If you put an employee up and he fell you would not have a leg to stand on.
You would have the book thrown at you.
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my insurance hasnt got a height limit for ladders just a height limit that we are insured to in gen.
as to having the book thrown at you thats not true.
If you had a risk ass, method ass, equitpment all checked, operative trained and you have done everything your are meant to put your operative was breaking these then its tough luck the operative wasnt follow the correct working requirements.
At the end of the day the hotel WILL not allow you to work at 4 stories on a ladder
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Are we in the 21st century or not?
Im having our chimney swept next week in readiness for the winter. I was thinking it would be viewed as far better H&S if I employed an orphan to leg it up there, there is no alternative after all.
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ladders can only be used up to 9 meters!!
this is what mr willis told me on the qcf course!!
please correct me if im wrong david
get a wfp fella in to do the top floor then do the rest your self or subby the lot out and make a few bob whilst on the couch or doing own work.... simples
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Why anyone would want to work 30 - 35 feet up a ladder is beyond me. My triples (well Ian_Giles's really ;D) are a nightmare to lug about; and they only get used when the money is right, and not for window cleaning.
There's easier ways to make money than heaving massively heavy ladders about and dragging your fat body up 'em; never mind what 'elf 'n' safety says.
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I knew a guy that fell whilst cleaning a 4 storey hotel off a ladder. he broke many, many bones ::)
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i have used ladders that big 4 floors now wfp i do seem to remember reading that a hight of 27 feet was an industery recomended limit ;)
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quite often windows at this height open inwards for cleaning...but this is only good for vacant rooms of course
i am 25 years experienced with ladders and would never top 30ft or so
using a ladder for 40ft takes a tremendous amount of effort moving it around....extended it would be too unsafe...so it would need to be put up and down for every climb....not to mention the inconvenience of either a footer, or some stabilising device
the area would really need to be sectioned of....warning signs at least
then there is the bother of cars parked, or bushes/trees in the way
windy/wet days would be out the question....
plus the fact already mentioned about the hotel actually allowing ladders to be used at this height
i use ladders 75% of the time....but for this job it would be WFP for sure
it can be done cheap with a couple of vessels and a well place outside tap to hook up to
the only expensive part is a carbon pole, as at that height ally, or fibre glass are tough to work with :)
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http://www.hse.gov.uk/press/2005/e05110.htm
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ladders can only be used up to 9 meters!!
this is what mr willis told me on the qcf course!!
please correct me if im wrong david
get a wfp fella in to do the top floor then do the rest your self or subby the lot out and make a few bob whilst on the couch or doing own work.... simples
no your correct
but there are ways to go higher as stated below, from this.. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2005/735/schedule/6/made
9. Where a ladder or run of ladders rises a vertical distance of 9 metres or more above its base, there shall, where reasonably practicable, be provided at suitable intervals sufficient safe landing areas or rest platforms.
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also a point to consider..
taken from here... http://www.hse.gov.uk/falls/ladders.htm#rightforthejob
-When can ladders be used?
Ladders can be used if after assessing the risks the use of more suitable work equipment is not justified because of the low risk and short duration
so its up to you to honestly think about if 40ft is low risk???
i say no....but as always, hse guides are never back and white....there are a thousand shades of grey!!!
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its simple, theres no hard and fast rule. its simply that you have to use the safest possible equipment in any given situation. if there were to be an accident its would be looked on a case by case basis, but ultimately it comes down to the judgement of the employer and the contractor
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Sounds to me like this hotel "or a certain manager" doesn't want to pay the money to have the job done safely.
The safest option is not wfp, it would be far safer to clean the windows from the inside, this is reasonably practical.
Without seeing the hotel I can not say if WFP would be suitable or a MEWP for that matter.
Along with your quote I hope they ask for a risk assessment, method statement & proof of insurance.
Then I can rest assure you will not get the contract and you will not be sending some poor lad up 35-40ft for £500. But the fact you have considered it has upset me.
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Sounds to me like this hotel "or a certain manager" doesn't want to pay the money to have the job done safely.
The safest option is not wfp, it would be far safer to clean the windows from the inside, this is reasonably practical.
Without seeing the hotel I can not say if WFP would be suitable or a MEWP for that matter.
Along with your quote I hope they ask for a risk assessment, method statement & proof of insurance.
Then I can rest assure you will not get the contract and you will not be sending some poor lad up 35-40ft for £500. But the fact you have considered it has upset me.
ah... dont be upset ;D ;D
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its simple, theres no hard and fast rule. its simply that you have to use the safest possible equipment in any given situation. if there were to be an accident its would be looked on a case by case basis, but ultimately it comes down to the judgement of the employer and the contractor
Gladly there is a hard and fast rule, and its law, its called the WAHR 2005
idealrob
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Wfp would be the only safe option to clean at that height, if you disagree then that is up to you.
what about cleaning the windows from the inside
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looks like nobody here does hotels like this size ? if you do premier inn style of stuff can you gimme a ball park figure ? is £500 way too high? way too low?? is it normally cleaned outside annually or "as and when" ?
although its 4 floors high, to my mind its not a big boy job, i consider a big boy job to be bigger than this , such as tower block size.
£500 is way to high u will get a £150 if your lucky
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all commercial is very very competitive.. they give you the job if your the lowest quote a year or two later they ask for more quotes for even cheaper again and the repeat it to get it lower couple of years later from that.. To top it all off they take a while to pay.
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ive a bit more info on it now. theyre looking for it done every 3 months ,on a 3 year contract.
this means that whatever price i go in at has to be way higher than what im already earning for a day ,cos my diary is full as it is .
i am waiting for my friend at the hotel to find out the bid price by the big boy contractor so i can see if its even worth my while.
its a global hotel chain and me and my main guy went the other day to av a look at it, its a big L shape place with conference rooms etc , 2 of us could do it in a day ,,,,JUST .
im going to have to look into how to write a contract ,for certain notes scribbled on a f*g packet wont be whats wanted ;D
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all commercial is very very competitive.. they give you the job if your the lowest quote a year or two later they ask for more quotes for even cheaper again and the repeat it to get it lower couple of years later from that.. To top it all off they take a while to pay.
how long did the hotel take to pay? do they ever wriggle out of paying,if somebody sees a window thats not up to scratch? thats part of my fear ,if i go down the WFP route and theres marks that we cannot see on the 4th storey from the ground below. the bedroom windows are doubles where the top pane hinges from at the top, but the lower pane is fixed. metal powder coated frames,grey coloured . the ground floor is 10 ft high glass ,divided frames going right around the building
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Bobby, im not being funny or anything mate but if your full to the brim why are you even considering it? How are you going to fix the ladder when your lad is going up four floors (roughly 50ft)? Have you factored in the time it will take to go up and down a ladder and move it on all the top windows? Not just that but how it will look with two fellas struggling to move a ladder up that high. What are you doing with safety sides of things as the lad going up a ladder will need a harness of some sort so you need to be able to secure that above him?
Im not being funny or anything about all this but I just cant understand why you'd want to do it trad. If it feels nice and calm or a slight breeze on the floor then trust me 50ft up in the air it aint a light breeze, if you fall from that height then its not going to be a bump on the head it i will be a death and if i was in your shoes then i couldnt live with myself, either walk away or buy a wfp set up to do it, you could be set up for less than £500 and then if you get this one you could possibly target more.
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not sure why im intrested in it to tell the truth . if i get wind its low priced then im not intrested whatsoever
on a side note-its not a case of shoving a lad up a big ladder as id do the top 2 floors personally myself. i believe an 11 metre ladder is rope operated and id think itd handle okay with 2 blokes . ( this place is 4 storey ,thats including the ground) ie, ground,1,2,3,
id think over the whole country there must be plenty who clean these places on ladders or wfp and know if theyre good money or pap !
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Well i reckon (and hope) you'll walk away from it then as it will be lower than your £500 guess, in fact i reckon it will be at least half that. If its you goin up the top windows then it still makes no difference, how are you going to fix your harness or fall arrestor?
What will happen when you say it take a day and you then come across a few issues and you end up rushing as you have a full day elsewhere booked in the next day? we've all done it and we all start rushing.
Bobby where are you based?
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i agree with ste!i think your bonkers bobby!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
sack it off!when/if you get a wfp system then maybe you could try for some of the bigger jobs.
its a wfp job plain and simple.
best wishes
dazmond
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You have also said above that the ground floor windows are about 10ft and all round the building. The ground floor of any hotel is always higher than the floors above to give the feeling of space upon entering the hotel, so this means your probably looking at 25ft to the 1st floor windows, then a further ten foot to each one above that so realistically your looking at 45ft to the top windows. Een the bottom windows alone your going to be looking at 2 men taking nearly 2 hours to clean if its as big as you say, this then leaves you a limited time to do the bedroom windows. you have to remember the time limits that hotels put on you doing this sort of work, they wont want you cleaning the ground floor entrances whilst people are coming and going and they also wont definatly want someone turning up on a ladder at a guests window at 8 a.m in the morning.
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i havent thought the finer details thru i admit. but i did find ladders online for hire of 11m, 13 m and 16 m and about 40 quid a day
if it took 2 days then so be it, i admit iv not done a hotel
what basically happened was a mate of mine who works there mentioned to me that the job was up for grabs and she knows iv got a good team (now) and said "i can get you it,if you want it " , with a twinkle in her eye
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on a side note-its not a case of shoving a lad up a big ladder as id do the top 2 floors personally myself. i believe an 11 metre ladder is rope operated and id think itd handle okay with 2 blokes .
Would love to see your final risk assessment and method statement........"shoving up a ladder", "i believe", "I'd think it'll handle ok with 2 blokes"..........
H & S would have a field day with that ;D and they don't get involved just when there is an accident.
Anyway the hotel must have their own guidelines for H & S and contrcators working on site, so you need to have a hard copy of them and go through them to make sure you can meet their H & S. This of course must be inconjunction with the WAHR ruling.
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DOUBLE ROPE OPERATED
4.5m 14'9'' 8.25m 27'0'' 17 27 H1DR45
5.0m 16'5'' 9.25m 30'4'' 19 30 H1DR50
5.5m 18'1'' 10.0m 32'8'' 21 34 H1DR55
6.0m 19'8'' 11.0m 36'1'' 23 50 H1DR60
TRIPLE ROPE OPERATED
4.2m 13'11'' 10.0m 32'9'' 15 37 H1TR40
4.7m 15'6'' 11.5m 37'7'' 17 57 H1TR45
5.2m 17'2'' 13.0m 42'7'' 19 63 H1TR50
5.7m 18'10'' 14.5m 47'5'' 21 69 H1TR55
there you go bobby, this is the spec ive found for rope ladders on line, i reckon you'd need a 5.2m or 5.7m triple myself. Where are you bobby?
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cheers for that info Ste , very good of you
What would make you pick a triple over a double? i live in Felixstowe but this hotels not around here . id never quote any of the seafront hotels here due to the salt spray on the glass. i made that mistake with various seafront apartments in this town and have lived to regret it. these are 3 storey
all the 4 storey seafront hotels here dont have the upper floor windows cleaned, maybe due to the height or the breeze off the sea !
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I priced up an office block recently that was at the same height as this building you are talking about. Thinking about this, putting the specifics in to the situation confirms you would seriously have to be insane to consider cleaning this building off a ladder.
There are no two ways about it. Seriously stupid to even consider it. Sorry, I dont mean to offend, but seriously, is this just a joke?
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Well Bobby not trying to put you off, but if it is 3 monthly and you dont want it I would make it worth your while if you passed it my way. :)
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What price do you put on your life? a fall from that height is only going to result in your death.
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Have you picked your epitaph yet, as you seem to completely ignoring all the advice on the thread
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Have you picked your epitaph yet, as you seem to completely ignoring all the advice on the thread
not at all Pano, im taking it all in ,and its all helping me find a way forward
im now thinking that once i hear what the ballpark figure is (and if its not too low) ,i can then pitch in with my quote ,giving them the 2 options of WFP or the ladders ,or a combo of these.
the main thing is i dont want to dismiss the job out of hand ,that im out of my depth so to speak,later regretting it .
[ years ago,when i was a mechanic , i was asked over the phone by an American airman if i wanted to buy his old car as he was flying back to the States,dirt cheap if id tow it away from the Base carpark, and it was a Ford Mustang. i dismissed it as i was sure i couldnt even afford to fill it with fuel never mind tyres ,getting it registered etc - later ,after he had flown home , i discovered it was a very rare Mustang,built as a sortof race model - JEEESUS i was too late , and it had gone ]
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Well Bobby not trying to put you off, but if it is 3 monthly and you dont want it I would make it worth your while if you passed it my way. :)
for sure id draw you in Dan,if i get a foot in the door there, so to speak ;)
id think we may even need uniforms so we didnt get booted round the back,i noticed theres a concierge wearing a uniform
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Have you picked your epitaph yet, as you seem to completely ignoring all the advice on the thread
not at all Pano, im taking it all in ,and its all helping me find a way forward
im now thinking that once i hear what the ballpark figure is (and if its not too low) ,i can then pitch in with my quote ,giving them the 2 options of WFP or the ladders ,or a combo of these.
the main thing is i dont want to dismiss the job out of hand ,that im out of my depth so to speak,later regretting it .
[ years ago,when i was a mechanic , i was asked over the phone by an American airman if i wanted to buy his old car as he was flying back to the States,dirt cheap if id tow it away from the Base carpark, and it was a Ford Mustang. i dismissed it as i was sure i couldnt even afford to fill it with fuel never mind tyres ,getting it registered etc - later ,after he had flown home , i discovered it was a very rare Mustang,built as a sortof race model - JEEESUS i was too late , and it had gone ]
er.. after all advice still thinking ladders .. seriously must b a joke... not being funny ;D ;D but you wont be able to 'retire' from this job ..what £200 max ... but you might if u come off the ladders ;D ;D
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dont listen to any one on here, go do the job off ladders, someone falls the hotel will blame you and you get to lose everything,
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Just goes to show how many some people are still not upto date with law and regulations, Bobby, have you understand the WAHR, and tell the truth, if you fall from 4th floor what will happen ?
everyone at the funeral wil say its tragic, the inteligent ones wil say he was and idiot, and what he has done to his familly for £150
idealrob
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its in the lap of the gods whether i get it,or even whether i put in my bid. i really do believe in fate , lets see what the word is on the big boys quote first
im not a risk taker when it comes to safety i promise you, although i DO take risks on business decisions . its got me from Zilch and homeless , to now having a busy round with 2 employees in under 3 yrs . will av 4 by this time next year and this threads got me thinking i might buy a bigger van next year to carry a water tank for higher jobs
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Bobby, sure new business, but please dont put anyone at risk - its just not worth it, pass it on to the guys in your area - to be honest its really not up for discussion, WFP versus ladder, just dont. Let the guys with the poles deal with it, there is no pre requisition any more for people falling of ladders. Bobby just dont even risk it. There is safer methods I think you will be hulling yourself into alot of trouble - best just leave it to ground level work Big hotel = proper equipment
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I thought that any ladder used over 9m had to be secured at the top and bottom and could only be used if there was no practical alternative even for short duration work.
I would have thought that time wise, it'd not be worth it anyway, regardless of the contract price, to use a ladder. If that was me, I wouldn't even consider using one for a job like that and I think anyone who does must be bonkers.
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awwwright,you lots pushed me so,,, im gonna bite back---- the reason that theres so many windies now driving around is that the pole system has allowed the furry slipper folk WITH NO BOTTLE to dilute the trade .
FACT
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awwwright,you lots pushed me so,,, im gonna bite back---- the reason that theres so many windies now driving around is that the pole system has allowed the furry slipper folk WITH NO BOTTLE to enter the trade .
FACT
:o :o :o :o
thats right bobby you hit it on the head
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Have you had a lobotomy ???, what a bizarre statement. Just to let you know I started window cleaning in 1983 working on public houses cleaning up to 2nd floor level , without ladder been footed. Jump forward nearly 30 years and I started cleaning again on the ladders , but only doing domestics, I then seen the light and went WFP . Bobby , there isn't a price on your life I'm afraid , your only here once, you need to take a step back and put in a price for the job, but use it as a learning curve to develop your WFP skills. Once you have mastered the pole you will never look back and you will go onto bigger and better things :)
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It is a travesty that some genuine new starters looking for advice will look at these type of posts, and take the dangerous advice given, and could end up dead ! :'(
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you ever watched the film "invasion of the bodysnatchers" ,? well thats how some of you come over , preaching the new gospel, but youve got no life left in you,no spirit
im forever hearing on here that,yes ,you earn more and boy isnt life easy these days ,but GOD isnt it boring now our minds are stale from using the pole and then theres that huge gut that comes with it too .
dont worry, im in no hurry to go to sleep and be taken by you bunch of ghouls !!!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIvH2dPolsM
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Regardless of faith in your ability to do the job off a ladder, it will become very obvious once you take a proper look - that doing 4th floor work off them is too time consuming to be worthwhile.
You could do 1 side wfp in the same time it would take to move a ladder for 6 windows at that height.
And if the job is worth much, you will also come to the conclusion that buying wfp kit for that height will profit you much more. It's a 1 man job with wfp, with a ladder you would need 2.
Anyway, the reality is that you won't be considered for the job if you don't have wfp.
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awwwright,you lots pushed me so,,, im gonna bite back---- the reason that theres so many windies now driving around is that the pole system has allowed the furry slipper folk WITH NO BOTTLE to dilute the trade .
FACT
Bobby,
Sorry, i apologise if my comments upset u . I should explain the majority of our work is roof cleaning / building cleaning not window cleaning , we do however finish all jobs with reach and wash, mainly we have found it saves time compared to trad.
In all of our services we try to operate as safe as possible. We clean roofs which other companies cant due to access nothing to do with 'bottle' just method we use. Hence same goes for window cleaning. For argument sake say they allow u to use ladders it will take u forever and a day using trad!
Why not use this opportunity if you have a foot in the door to use this job to pay for a basic reach and wash? thats what we did with a large building clean...
you can then utilise it on other jobs... Again no one is trying to preach to u this is a forum, guys and girls are just expressing their views no ones trying to offend, just trying to be professional and safe
Good luck all the best Mike
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cheers Mike - i was tired when i wrote last night, thats what happens when you run a 100% trad round when youre not a young buck anymore !!
and i agree with you,on the high jobs this WFP really does make a lot of sense- i guess i need to go out with somebody to a high job where the windows have not been touched in yonks to fully convince me that it works well.
its funny you mention that you do roof cleaning- in a town i work i watched a Polish cleaner pulling up big ladders while already standing at the top of a ladder , i didnt stick around to see how he got along on the roof but i wouldnt have been happy pulling up a double 13 rung while standing on top of another ! id think a better approach would be to use tower scaffold, not as quick though .
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Bobby where are you based?
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live in Felixstowe , but i dont work here. well, a few" felixstowions" have got on board as they see my van parked here
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Come on admit it,you`ve still got a black and white telly!
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its in the lap of the gods whether i get it,or even whether i put in my bid. i really do believe in fate , lets see what the word is on the big boys quote first
im not a risk taker when it comes to safety i promise you, although i DO take risks on business decisions . its got me from Zilch and homeless , to now having a busy round with 2 employees in under 3 yrs . will av 4 by this time next year and this threads got me thinking i might buy a bigger van next year to carry a water tank for higher jobs
if you are sad enough to believe in fate , then walk across the road on you towns busiest road without looking, and as for saying you are not a risk taker on health & safety by using a ladder on 4th floors, best laugh this year
idealrob
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Bobby,
I am a die hard tradder (hopefully not in a future literal sense). I am 49 years of age with nearly 15 years experience in this game. I have lots of room in my work schedule at the moment due to starting up again in another country. Moreover, I am very, very careful and methodical in the way I go about my work.
Given those simple facts and my current circumstances, I would still not touch a job like this with a dozen bargepoles tied together. The reason being that it is patently unsafe working 50 feet up in the air off ladders. My limit is around 25 feet, and even then I have to feel safe when I am up there. Anything higher than this I reject or pass on.
Some jobs are simply not worth the risk, and as you have a full book, why do you need it in the first place? Rhetorical question.
I wish you the very best in whatever you decide to do. :)
John