[g.brookes]

its simple, theres no hard and fast rule.  its simply that you have to use the safest possible equipment in any given situation.  if there were to be an accident its would be looked on a case by case basis, but ultimately it comes down to the judgement of the employer and the contractor

[LHill]

Sounds to me like this hotel "or a certain manager" doesn't want to pay the money to have the job done safely.

The safest option is not wfp, it would be far safer to clean the windows from the inside, this is reasonably practical.

Without seeing the hotel I can not say if WFP would be suitable or a MEWP for that matter.

Along with your quote I hope they ask for a risk assessment, method statement & proof of insurance.

Then I can rest assure you will not get the contract and you will not be sending some poor lad up 35-40ft for £500. But the fact you have considered it has upset me.

[mike roberts]

Sounds to me like this hotel "or a certain manager" doesn't want to pay the money to have the job done safely.

The safest option is not wfp, it would be far safer to clean the windows from the inside, this is reasonably practical.

Without seeing the hotel I can not say if WFP would be suitable or a MEWP for that matter.

Along with your quote I hope they ask for a risk assessment, method statement & proof of insurance.

Then I can rest assure you will not get the contract and you will not be sending some poor lad up 35-40ft for £500. But the fact you have considered it has upset me.

ah... dont be upset

[idealrob]

its simple, theres no hard and fast rule.  its simply that you have to use the safest possible equipment in any given situation.  if there were to be an accident its would be looked on a case by case basis, but ultimately it comes down to the judgement of the employer and the contractor

Gladly there is a hard and fast rule, and its law, its called the WAHR 2005

idealrob

[geoffreyspecht]

Wfp would be the only safe option to clean at that height, if you disagree then that is up to you.

what about cleaning the windows from the inside

[geoffreyspecht]

looks like nobody here does hotels like this size ? if you do premier inn style of stuff can you gimme a ball park figure ? is £500 way too high? way too low?? is it normally cleaned outside annually or "as and when" ?

 although its 4 floors high, to my mind its not a big boy job, i consider a big boy job to be bigger than this , such as tower block size.  

£500 is way to high u will get a £150 if your lucky

[dave0123]

all commercial is very very competitive.. they give you the job if your the lowest quote a year or two later they ask for more quotes for even cheaper again and the repeat it to get it lower couple of years later from that.. To top it all off they take a while to pay.

[bobby p]

ive a bit more info on it now. theyre looking for it done every 3 months ,on a 3 year contract.

 this means that whatever price i go in at has to be way higher than what im already earning for a day ,cos my diary is full as it is .  
 i am waiting for my friend at the hotel to find out the bid price by the big boy contractor so i can see if its even worth my while.  
 its a global hotel chain and me and my main guy went the other day  to av a look at it, its a big L shape place with conference rooms etc , 2 of us could do it in a day ,,,,JUST  .  

im going to have to look into how to write a contract ,for certain  notes scribbled on a f*g packet wont be whats wanted  

[bobby p]

all commercial is very very competitive.. they give you the job if your the lowest quote a year or two later they ask for more quotes for even cheaper again and the repeat it to get it lower couple of years later from that.. To top it all off they take a while to pay.

 how long did the hotel take to pay? do they ever wriggle out of paying,if somebody sees a window thats not up to scratch?  thats part of my fear ,if i go down the WFP route and theres  marks that we cannot see on the 4th storey from the ground below. the bedroom windows are doubles where the top pane hinges from at the top, but the lower pane is fixed. metal powder coated frames,grey coloured . the ground floor is 10 ft high glass ,divided frames going right around the building

[Ste M]

Bobby, im not being funny or anything mate but if your full to the brim why are you even considering it? How are you going to fix the ladder when your lad is going up four floors (roughly 50ft)? Have you factored in the time it will take to go up and down a ladder and move it on all the top windows? Not just that but how it will look with two fellas struggling to move a ladder up that high. What are you doing with safety sides of things as the lad going up a ladder will need a harness of some sort so you need to be able to secure that above him?

Im not being funny or anything about all this but I just cant understand why you'd want to do it trad. If it feels nice and calm or a slight breeze on the floor then trust me 50ft up in the air it aint a light breeze, if you fall from that height then its not going to be a bump on the head it i will be a death and if i was in your shoes then i couldnt live with myself, either walk away or buy a wfp set up to do it, you could be set up for less than £500 and then if you get this one you could possibly target more.

[bobby p]

not sure why im intrested in it to tell the truth . if i get wind its low priced then im not intrested whatsoever

on a side note-its not a case of shoving a lad up a big ladder as id do the top 2 floors personally myself. i believe an 11 metre ladder is rope operated and id think itd handle okay with 2 blokes . ( this place is 4 storey ,thats including the ground)  ie, ground,1,2,3,


 id think over the whole country there must be plenty who clean these places on ladders or wfp and know if theyre good money or pap !

[Ste M]

Well i reckon (and hope) you'll walk away from it then as it will be lower than your £500 guess, in fact i reckon it will be at least half that. If its you goin up the top windows then it still makes no difference, how are you going to fix your harness or fall arrestor?

What will happen when you say it take a day and you then come across a few issues and you end up rushing as you have a full day elsewhere booked in the next day? we've all done it and we all start rushing.

Bobby where are you based?

[dazmond]

i agree with ste!i think your bonkers bobby!!!

sack it off!when/if you get a wfp system then maybe you could try for some of the bigger jobs.

its a wfp job plain and simple.


best wishes


dazmond

[Ste M]

You have also said above that the ground floor windows are about 10ft and all round the building. The ground floor of any hotel is always higher than the floors above to give the feeling of space upon entering the hotel, so this means your probably looking at 25ft to the 1st floor windows, then a further ten foot to each one above that so realistically your looking at 45ft to the top windows. Een the bottom windows alone your going to be looking at 2 men taking nearly 2 hours to clean if its as big as you say, this then leaves you a limited time to do the bedroom windows. you have to remember the time limits that hotels put on you doing this sort of work, they wont want you cleaning the ground floor entrances whilst people are coming and going and they also wont definatly want someone turning up on a ladder at a guests window at 8 a.m in the morning.

[bobby p]

i havent thought the finer details thru i admit. but i did find ladders online for hire of 11m, 13 m and 16 m  and   about 40 quid a day

if it took 2 days then so be it, i admit iv not done a hotel

 what basically happened was a mate of mine who works there mentioned to me that the job was up for grabs and she knows iv got a good team (now) and said "i can get you it,if you want it " , with a twinkle in her eye 

 

[Helen]

on a side note-its not a case of shoving a lad up a big ladder as id do the top 2 floors personally myself. i believe an 11 metre ladder is rope operated and id think itd handle okay with 2 blokes .

Would love to see your final risk assessment and method statement........"shoving up a ladder", "i believe", "I'd think it'll handle ok with 2 blokes"..........
H & S would have a field day with that and they don't get involved just when there is an accident.

Anyway the hotel must have their own guidelines for H & S and contrcators working on site, so you need to have a hard copy of them and go through them to make sure you can meet their H & S. This of course must be inconjunction with the WAHR ruling.

[Ste M]

DOUBLE ROPE OPERATED 
4.5m  14'9''  8.25m  27'0''  17  27  H1DR45 
5.0m  16'5''  9.25m  30'4''  19  30  H1DR50 
5.5m  18'1''  10.0m  32'8''  21  34  H1DR55 
6.0m  19'8''  11.0m  36'1''  23  50  H1DR60 
TRIPLE ROPE OPERATED 
4.2m  13'11''  10.0m  32'9''  15  37  H1TR40 
4.7m  15'6''  11.5m  37'7''  17  57  H1TR45 
5.2m  17'2''  13.0m  42'7''  19  63  H1TR50 
5.7m  18'10''  14.5m  47'5''  21  69  H1TR55 


there you go bobby, this is the spec ive found for rope ladders on line, i reckon you'd need a 5.2m or 5.7m triple myself. Where are you bobby?

[bobby p]

cheers for that info Ste , very good of you

 What would make you pick a triple over a double? i live in Felixstowe but this hotels not around here . id never quote any of the seafront hotels here due to the salt spray on the glass. i made that mistake with various seafront apartments in this town and have lived to regret it.  these are 3 storey

 all the 4 storey  seafront hotels here dont have the upper floor windows cleaned, maybe due to the height or the breeze off the sea !

[H S and Son]

I priced up an office block recently that was at the same height as this building you are talking about. Thinking about this, putting the specifics in to the situation confirms you would seriously have to be insane to consider cleaning this building off a ladder.

There are no two ways about it. Seriously stupid to even consider it. Sorry, I dont mean to offend, but seriously, is this just a joke?

[CLEANCARE WC]

Well Bobby not trying to put you off, but if it is 3 monthly and you dont want it I would make it worth your while if you passed it my way.