Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Lee GLS on December 11, 2010, 08:40:38 pm
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has anyone got one of the hotwash systems from peter forwill, i see that he is selling them on ebay now, but how to they compare to the L5? seems like that can heat the van, run 2 pumps off 1 hotwash and there is no cut out, it seems like a good deal?
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the ones on ebay are L5 with no modification, you will have to wait if you want the van mount with all the kit.
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Link?
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Stu, has he not got a brand new thing just out yesterday, not an l5?
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stu take a look on ebay its not an l5.
Peters hotwash £185 delivered looks great!!!
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the ones on ebay are L5 with no modification, you will have to wait if you want the van mount with all the kit.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Hot-Water-Window-Cleaning-Aquatec-HotWash-/120658454376?pt=UK_HomeGarden_CLV_Cleaning_CA&hash=item1c17cde768#ht_1537wt_1139
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Hot-Water-Window-Cleaning-Aquatec-HotWash-/120658454376?pt=UK_HomeGarden_CLV_Cleaning_CA&hash=item1c17cde768#ht_1537wt_1139
says they are not an L5
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Stu, has he not got a brand new thing just out yesterday, not an l5?
yes you are right here is the link
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=120658454376&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT#ht_1647wt_932
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I bought one, I will do a review when fitted.
Roy
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all i know is ste m ad no replies
to his endless emails phone calls
and everything else he tried to do
to contact pete regards his system
my m8 sold him a l5 cheap
ste m happy as larry though he
did all the mods required etc ;D ;D
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i rang emailed and text at least 30 times, no really response.
and they were 495 on website so something cant be the same for them to be over half the price.
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Well for the coin he's asking for u can't moan full jot system with frost protection built in wit a refillable LPG tank some the mutts nuts to me
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No, £180 odd is for the unit only.
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i rang emailed and text at least 30 times, no really response.
and they were 495 on website so something cant be the same for them to be over half the price.
I would be interested as have not yet ordered the L5, (looking for alternatives) but I have read on here so many times how bad Peter is at answering emails and such that it puts me off.
Basicaly, if you buy from him you are on your own if you have problems.
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Peter's hotwash looks great. runs off lpg as well fill up at petty station about 65p a litre
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i rang emailed and text at least 30 times, no really response.
and they were 495 on website so something cant be the same for them to be over half the price.
I would be interested as have not yet ordered the L5, (looking for alternatives) but I have read on here so many times how bad Peter is at answering emails and such that it puts me off.
Basicaly, if you buy from him you are on your own if you have problems.
I always answer my phone, and if a customer wants me for anything they know how to get me. Sometimes at night, and even on a Sunday. The HotWash is Guaranteed for a year along with all the parts. Do you know anyone who has sent their L5 back to the USA to have it fixed under guarantee? I wouldn't think so, I would guess they get thrown away and a new one bought.
Peter
www.window-tools.com
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Peter , what is the cost of the hot wash set up alone , by which I mean , unit, LPG tank and cage?
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i rang emailed and text at least 30 times, no really response.
and they were 495 on website so something cant be the same for them to be over half the price.
I would be interested as have not yet ordered the L5, (looking for alternatives) but I have read on here so many times how bad Peter is at answering emails and such that it puts me off.
Basicaly, if you buy from him you are on your own if you have problems.
I always answer my phone, and if a customer wants me for anything they know how to get me. Sometimes at night, and even on a Sunday. The HotWash is Guaranteed for a year along with all the parts. Do you know anyone who has sent their L5 back to the USA to have it fixed under guarantee? I wouldn't think so, I would guess they get thrown away and a new one bought.
Peter
www.window-tools.com
Thanks for the reply Peter. I stand corrected ;D
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I don't understand the bit about being able to fill the tank up at the local petrol station? It says in the description you need to use your own red LPG gas bottle?
What's the "lpg tank with remote filler" all about?
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And ps. can we not bypass the insurance problem by just using one of these? :
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LPG-CAR-TANK-SPARE-WHEEL-WELL-TYPE-/320629477443?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4aa7019043
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And ps. can we not bypass the insurance problem by just using one of these? :
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LPG-CAR-TANK-SPARE-WHEEL-WELL-TYPE-/320629477443?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4aa7019043
i
Tim, the tank I am using is a different version of the tank in the link. The one in the link is for the spare wheel space. the one I am using would fit in the boot of a car. They need to be secured whatever one you use, and instead of securing in the boot I will be securing on a metal frame that will be secured to the vehicle chassis. You will also find that for most LPG car conversions they will use quite big gas tanks so as they can get quite a distance between fills. If I used a tank that size it would last years. We only need a small amount and I have went for a 10L one, It has a gauge and when you see it quarter full you can top it up for around £2.80. Using the gas in this way will pay for the system in no time at all.
The listing is for the water heater only, no LPG tank, no overnight thermostat, no exhaust extraction, and no securing frame. If you buy the water heater from the listing then you would need your own gas supply, and the easist way to get it up and running is a gas bottle. A gas bottle in a van is safer than having a spare can of petrol, and lots of tradesmen carry them around connected to blowtorches etc, but there is more of a tendency to leak through connections etc. With the LPG tanks there is a sealed box around the valve and filler attachment and gauge, with a pipe leading to outside the vehicle, so has no chance of any gas escaping into the vehicle.
For the complete package I will be doing for £499 plus delivery and VAT for at least two months, and then I will review the price later on.
A few people from ebay have asked if they can add the other stuff on later, and the answer is yes, the heater just slides into the frame at any time.
Insurance keeps cropping up and I am working on something for the insurance companies.
Peter Fogwill
www.window-tools.com
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Hi Peter
The L5 seems to have problems keeping fired up unless you use a minimum of 2ltrs per minute flow rate.
How does your new heater compare on this issue? will it still run ok with a slower flow rate?
Regards
Winp
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If I used a tank that size it would last years. We only need a small amount and I have went for a 10L one,
So on average how long would you say the 10l gas would last peter?
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Peter does most of the work himself that's why it's understandable that he hasn't got time to answer e-mails but I'm sure if you phone him up he will be able to help you with anything. I went to see him couple weeks ago to ask very basic questions as I'm just starting with wfp and he explained everything in detail, showed how everything works, etc. I'm planning to go and see him next week again for a couple bits and bobs and place my order for a pump box.
I would very much recommend him and his products to everyone (No I don't work for him or have any profits by saying that) ;D
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i rang emailed and text at least 30 times, no really response.
and they were 495 on website so something cant be the same for them to be over half the price.
I would be interested as have not yet ordered the L5, (looking for alternatives) but I have read on here so many times how bad Peter is at answering emails and such that it puts me off.
Basicaly, if you buy from him you are on your own if you have problems.
I always answer my phone, and if a customer wants me for anything they know how to get me. Sometimes at night, and even on a Sunday. The HotWash is Guaranteed for a year along with all the parts. Do you know anyone who has sent their L5 back to the USA to have it fixed under guarantee? I wouldn't think so, I would guess they get thrown away and a new one bought.
Peter
www.window-tools.com
Thanks for the reply Peter. I stand corrected ;D
No Problem Jack and thanks for bringing it to my attention, this is something I will have to work on. I have been on the Internet for many years and was one of the first window cleaners in the UK to have a website. I still have the same email address that I had from the start and have accumulated a lot of spam emails, and if I don't get to my emails on a very regular basis I have far too many to get through and end up missing some. I do rely on people just picking up the phone. Like I said I will have to find a solution to the problem.
Peter Fogwill
www.window-tools.com
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If I used a tank that size it would last years. We only need a small amount and I have went for a 10L one,
So on average how long would you say the 10l gas would last peter?
Sorry not got a clue, but if I had to guess then I would say a week per refill. It only takes 8L at a time although it is a 10L tank. It has an automatic safety shut off at 8L so as you can't overfill, the 2L space is left for expansion in extreme conditions.
It will last longer for people using triggers or Autobrush as it is only using gas when the water is coming out the brush.
Peter Fogwill
www.window-tools.com
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Hi Peter
The L5 seems to have problems keeping fired up unless you use a minimum of 2ltrs per minute flow rate.
How does your new heater compare on this issue? will it still run ok with a slower flow rate?
Regards
Winp
I don't know the answer to this one either, but I do know that the minimum psi is 3.6. And I do know that it will work fine with the small backpack pumps at full flow.
Peter Fogwill
www.window-tools.com
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Is there any pics of system Peter?how much is delivery?cheers
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i myself am a little dissapointed, i have been keeping check and have spoke to you on a few occasions and the date for them being available kept being put back i think it was originally 11 november.
i spoke tou you and you said email me so when they come in you can let us know, iv never recieved a email and all though i texted three times asking if they were ready i got one response 22 nov saying thety were in stock for a couple of days.
i text a couple of times after this with out response so i ordered a pure freedm system, i can understand you may be struggling but the lack of info and the mess about factor made me go else were.
i hope it does work has it will be a cheap option in the future but they way its gone is not a way i would like to run my business, please dont take this the wrong way just feel lack of information hasnt helped
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Hi Peter
The L5 seems to have problems keeping fired up unless you use a minimum of 2ltrs per minute flow rate.
How does your new heater compare on this issue? will it still run ok with a slower flow rate?
Regards
Winp
I don't know the answer to this one either, but I do know that the minimum psi is 3.6. And I do know that it will work fine with the small backpack pumps at full flow.
Peter Fogwill
www.window-tools.com
I would find out Peter. It is after all a "major" factor! ;D & the only one stopping me buying it right now! Hot's no good to me if it only works blasting out of the jets! ::)
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Why don't you know?
Surely you have tested it before putting it on the market? or has someone else designed it
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How can u expect the man to tell u how long gas will last?does he no how often u going b using it how many custys u got?
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i myself am a little dissapointed, i have been keeping check and have spoke to you on a few occasions and the date for them being available kept being put back i think it was originally 11 november.
i spoke tou you and you said email me so when they come in you can let us know, iv never recieved a email and all though i texted three times asking if they were ready i got one response 22 nov saying thety were in stock for a couple of days.
i text a couple of times after this with out response so i ordered a pure freedm system, i can understand you may be struggling but the lack of info and the mess about factor made me go else were.
i hope it does work has it will be a cheap option in the future but they way its gone is not a way i would like to run my business, please dont take this the wrong way just feel lack of information hasnt helped
Ronnie, the system is not ready yet and that is why I have not contacted you yet. It is only the water heaters on it's own that is available. No one that has left their contact details have been notified yet, and won't be until I have a definite day when they are ready to send out or fit.
I could have been taking definite orders as there was a few people desperate to pay, but I wanted to make sure everything went to plan, or I would have been inundated with unhappy people. All I could do was quote dates I was being given, but have learn-ed over the years that it doesn't always turn out to be true. I have been let down quite a few times myself.
I have had a lot of work to do lately and probably mostly so as I wasn't letting anyone down, or trying to keep it to a minimum. I wished you had just picked up the phone.
Peter Fogwill
www.window-tools.com
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How can u expect the man to tell u how long gas will last?does he no how often u going b using it how many custys u got?
Oh dont be stupid ::) I said on average how long would it last? people using the L5 was saying around a month for 19kg bottle.
I was wondering how long a 10litre tank would last i dont no anything about LPG it could last a day? it could last a couple of months the was peter said a size of a car LPG tank would last ages not talking about accurite readings jesus just a rough measure. I imagine it would of been tested before being sold more than a couple of hours
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How can u expect the man to tell u how long gas will last?does he no how often u going b using it how many custys u got?
Good answer, depends on quite a few things. Outside temperature, operating temperature, hours used in the day, length of time the heater is actually heating water in that hour. I could have done a test with it constantly on at full power until a certain sized bottle run out, but even then I still wouldn't know the answer to your question.
Peter Fogwill
www.window-tools.com
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Good answer, depends on quite a few things. Outside temperature, operating temperature, hours used in the day, length of time the heater is actually heating water in that hour. I could have done a test with it constantly on at full power until a certain sized bottle run out, but even then I still wouldn't know the answer to your question.
Peter Fogwill
www.window-tools.com
Fair enuf peter. But you dont know to u ask? i didnt know that was the case above and i dont know anything about using HOT either.
Just people no need to nock you for asking ::) as thats what this forum is for isn it?
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Hi Peter
The L5 seems to have problems keeping fired up unless you use a minimum of 2ltrs per minute flow rate.
How does your new heater compare on this issue? will it still run ok with a slower flow rate?
Regards
My 'why dont you know' question was also refering to this question as i thought you would of knew that as part of the selling features thats all
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Hi Peter
The L5 seems to have problems keeping fired up unless you use a minimum of 2ltrs per minute flow rate.
How does your new heater compare on this issue? will it still run ok with a slower flow rate?
Regards
Winp
I don't know the answer to this one either, but I do know that the minimum psi is 3.6. And I do know that it will work fine with the small backpack pumps at full flow.
Peter Fogwill
www.window-tools.com
I would find out Peter. It is after all a "major" factor! ;D & the only one stopping me buying it right now! Hot's no good to me if it only works blasting out of the jets! ::)
Will do, but I have a feeling it won't be much different to the L5. I would think you would need a definite pressure or flow to actually light the heater. With the heater lighting with water flow it would be too risky to have too low a flow in case it was to activate the burner with no flow at all. I will find out though.
People who use backpacks can still preheat water into the backpack itself or even into a container.
Peter Fogwill
www.window-tools.com
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Is this not the same as poseiden are doing right now?
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Hi Peter
The L5 seems to have problems keeping fired up unless you use a minimum of 2ltrs per minute flow rate.
How does your new heater compare on this issue? will it still run ok with a slower flow rate?
Regards
My 'why dont you know' question was also refering to this question as i thought you would of knew that as part of the selling features thats all
I suppose I have to cover all scenarios but to be honest I wouldn't dream of using a flow rate less than the heater would work at, and for this reason it never entered my head to do that particular test.
I do know that people use Sureflo backpacks at less than full speed, but didn't think people using a backpack would want to heat water on demand. Like I said in the earlier post why not preheat it into a container?
Peter Fogwill
www.window-tools.com
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Is there any pics of system Peter?how much is delivery?cheers
I should have pictures next week, I have been held up with the weather here, not much coming in or going out. Supposed to be back to normal by Tuesday.
Peter
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Peter, I WILL be purchasing one of your heaters! thankyou for finding and stocking a heater that we can all benefit from here in the uk.
Hope you dont get dis-heartened by all the digs/silly remarks.
Why do people complicate everything on this forum?
Keep up the good work! Your appreciated by 1 window cleaner at least!!
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There are only 2 reasons ppl would be interested in this heater over an L5:
1: The CE mark,.... but there are MANY, MANY heaters like this with CE marks available
2: The flow rate!! Check it Peter, its important!!!
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Nat
I don't want to go down the route mentioned above you of digs etc, but that's the problem to get the flow rate some would like (low) the ce mark wouldn't be available.
It's a contradiction.Of course i don't know the tech stuff, but i bet a high min flow is mandatory to meet stringent safety criteria- and which in turn would allow no modifications.
The eighteen minute thing is probably a silly yank idea, but oxygen depletion and flow will be basics.I expect the ce mark is quite expensive to get.
However as you point out you'd have though some figure or user feedback would have been mentioned.
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I have been assured by a manufacturer that the CE mark would be available on a unit that would be able to start with a 1 litre per minute flow rate. ;)
Nat
I don't want to go down the route mentioned above you of digs etc, but that's the problem to get the flow rate some would like (low) the ce mark wouldn't be available.
It's a contradiction.Of course i don't know the tech stuff, but i bet a high min flow is mandatory to meet stringent safety criteria- and which in turn would allow no modifications.
The eighteen minute thing is probably a silly yank idea, but oxygen depletion and flow will be basics.I expect the ce mark is quite expensive to get.
However as you point out you'd have though some figure or user feedback would have been mentioned.
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well i don't know everything. This was more an opinion.
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well i don't know everything. This was more an opinion.
Nearly everything tho,... don't sell yourself short. ;)
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There are only 2 reasons ppl would be interested in this heater over an L5:
1: The CE mark,.... but there are MANY, MANY heaters like this with CE marks available
2: The flow rate!! Check it Peter, its important!!!
Hi Nathanael,
Fllow rates were an option for me in the early stages and still is on my next batch, I didn't realise it was so important. Could you explain to me why or what setup you use that would need such a slow flow rate??
Peter
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There are only 2 reasons ppl would be interested in this heater over an L5:
1: The CE mark,.... but there are MANY, MANY heaters like this with CE marks available
2: The flow rate!! Check it Peter, its important!!!
Hi Nathanael,
Fllow rates were an option for me in the early stages and still is on my next batch, I didn't realise it was so important. Could you explain to me why or what setup you use that would need such a slow flow rate??
Peter
some window cleaners are under the illusion that a low flow rate will save water. so I suppose to them it is important. I think that is what nat is getting at
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Lots of ppl try to conserve water by using a lower flow rate, either because they don't have a vehicle big enough to carry enough water for a full day or simply to conserve resin. A heater that caters for their needs but will still work at higher flow rates would be fantastic.
A return to tank/bypass system wastes gas & increases running costs, so an true "on demand" heater is by far the best option.
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There are only 2 reasons ppl would be interested in this heater over an L5:
1: The CE mark,.... but there are MANY, MANY heaters like this with CE marks available
2: The flow rate!! Check it Peter, its important!!!
Hi Nathanael,
Fllow rates were an option for me in the early stages and still is on my next batch, I didn't realise it was so important. Could you explain to me why or what setup you use that would need such a slow flow rate??
Peter
some window cleaners are under the illusion that a low flow rate will save water. so I suppose to them it is important. I think that is what nat is getting at
No illusion STU, some user prefer a low flow rate & sometimes find it necessary on old sandstone buildings with rotten wooden frames etc - the last place you want water bouncing around! ;)
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well ive just bought one, peter has answered all the questions i asked finally so i will stump up my cash and go from there, it will replace my L5 and then when Nats becomes available i will also get one of them so i will have the best of both worlds ;D
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There are only 2 reasons ppl would be interested in this heater over an L5:
1: The CE mark,.... but there are MANY, MANY heaters like this with CE marks available
2: The flow rate!! Check it Peter, its important!!!
Hi Nathanael,
Fllow rates were an option for me in the early stages and still is on my next batch, I didn't realise it was so important. Could you explain to me why or what setup you use that would need such a slow flow rate??
Peter
some window cleaners are under the illusion that a low flow rate will save water. so I suppose to them it is important. I think that is what nat is getting at
No illusion STU, some user prefer a low flow rate & sometimes find it necessary on old sandstone buildings with rotten wooden frames etc - the last place you want water bouncing around! ;)
sorry i was being my usual sarcastic self, but the answer is the same there is a demand for a low flow rate ;)
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well ive just bought one, peter has answered all the questions i asked finally so i will stump up my cash and go from there, it will replace my L5 and then when Nats becomes available i will also get one of them so i will have the best of both worlds ;D
This time next year you'll be able to open a market stall!! ;D
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I find it strange that people who bought the aqua-daptor to save water then go and buy a heater with high flow rate ???
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There are only 2 reasons ppl would be interested in this heater over an L5:
1: The CE mark,.... but there are MANY, MANY heaters like this with CE marks available
2: The flow rate!! Check it Peter, its important!!!
Hi Nathanael,
Fllow rates were an option for me in the early stages and still is on my next batch, I didn't realise it was so important. Could you explain to me why or what setup you use that would need such a slow flow rate??
Peter
some window cleaners are under the illusion that a low flow rate will save water. so I suppose to them it is important. I think that is what nat is getting at
No illusion STU, some user prefer a low flow rate & sometimes find it necessary on old sandstone buildings with rotten wooden frames etc - the last place you want water bouncing around! ;)
sorry i was being my usual sarcastic self, but the answer is the same there is a demand for a low flow rate ;)
A ken ;D
My desire for a low flow rate isn't to save any water, I don't clean top frames & so don't like water bouncing off the glass & splashing everywhere. I also find it less "messy", less pressure to be super-quick as you flood the place etc. etc.
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I can see a sudden increase of L5's for sale on ebay soon. ;D
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There are only 2 reasons ppl would be interested in this heater over an L5:
1: The CE mark,.... but there are MANY, MANY heaters like this with CE marks available
2: The flow rate!! Check it Peter, its important!!!
Hi Nathanael,
Fllow rates were an option for me in the early stages and still is on my next batch, I didn't realise it was so important. Could you explain to me why or what setup you use that would need such a slow flow rate??
Peter
some window cleaners are under the illusion that a low flow rate will save water. so I suppose to them it is important. I think that is what nat is getting at
I am confused. I know what your saying Stu, and Nathanael I heard what you said a while back and done away with the 20 minute timer. I still keep thinking the timer thing would not be a problem as people using my systems are turning the water on and off maybe 20 times in the 20 minutes. And each time the water went back on, the 20 minutes would start again. I realise though that people work in different ways whether I agree with them or not.
Would it not make more sense turning the flow rate up and working out a way to turn the water off when not needed??
Now don't take this the wrong way, I am not trying to tell you how to clean windows, just trying to get to the bottom of this.
Peter Fogwill
www.window-tools.com
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should someone who does not have the capacity to carry enough water for a days work on full flow be really worried about going 'hot'?
I have full flow from a 100psi flowjet with no flow controller and clean my customers windows.
NEVER and I mean NEVER have any problems!!!!
No pump probs, spotting, running out of water,
Cleaning windows with pure water CANT be done with a trickle of water.
I see a local company cleaning up to 10 houses with a 18 ltr backpack, know wonder i pick up so many of there upset customers. spots all over becoz of the lack of rinsing. Then they have the cheek to pull me up about taking 5 customers off them in 1 road (and i charge 60% more than them)
Peter Nat is the L5 King and has worked hard with the suppliers i believe to perfect it.
sorry for the rant but again WHY DO PEOPLE COMPLICATE everything ON THIS FORUM?
Can i have a list of the many other c.e heaters please?
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should someone who does not have the capacity to carry enough water for a days work on full flow be really worried about going 'hot'?
I have full flow from a 100psi flowjet with no flow controller and clean my customers windows.
NEVER and I mean NEVER have any problems!!!!
No pump probs, spotting, running out of water,
Cleaning windows with pure water CANT be done with a trickle of water.
I see a local company cleaning up to 10 houses with a 18 ltr backpack, know wonder i pick up so many of there upset customers. spots all over becoz of the lack of rinsing. Then they have the cheek to pull me up about taking 5 customers off them in 1 road (and i charge 60% more than them)
Peter Nat is the L5 King and has worked hard with the suppliers i believe to perfect it.
sorry for the rant but again WHY DO PEOPLE COMPLICATE everything ON THIS FORUM?
Can i have a list of the many other c.e heaters please?
Are you blind?
Look at my post for your answer ::)
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I clean a listed building, sandstone frames with the original 18th century leaded glass! rinse on the glass on full flow 5.1 litre per min!
Customer loves her spotless windows, even gave me a lovely xmas tip.
come on lads its not rocket science!
Pure water(hot or cold) - pump - brush - rinse - get payed!
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Can i have a list of the many other c.e heaters please?
Rhiani & Morco have CE marked heaters that are very popular in the UK for caravan showers. They have the same (or higher) water flow requirements as the L5 and cost a lot more which is why few use them.
If you look on alibaba.com you'll see about 550 different CE marked models available from Chinese manufacturers, most for only $60 or so apiece. Unfortunately there are huge minimum order numbers, import duty, VAT, & shipping costs to consider which is why Peter's heater is IMO very good value for money.
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I clean a listed building, sandstone frames with the original 18th century leaded glass! rinse on the glass on full flow 5.1 litre per min!
Customer loves her spotless windows, even gave me a lovely xmas tip.
come on lads its not rocket science!
Pure water(hot or cold) - pump - brush - rinse - get payed!
Exactly the same for me, 55ft up too, loads of them.
However, I also get perfect results with less water than you, smaller van & payload required, my pump runs on Varistream digital setting 1. I can run my pump all day direct from the van battery via 12v cig' lighter socket because of this. NO fannying with chargers & leisure batteries etc. My resin lasts longer, I put less water on the ground etc. etc.
Just for starters, are we getting there?
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Its down to personal choice,.. but whatever your choice is, there should be a heater perfectly suited to you, it shouldn't be a case of changing the way you work to suit the heater.
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Its down to personal choice,.. but whatever your choice is, there should be a heater perfectly suited to you, it shouldn't be a case of changing the way you work to suit the heater.
I agree and have stopped trying to change the way people work, as most people won't change. Sometime with a post like this someone may try someone elses way, and never look back.
What I would say to Winp@oclean, how do you know you are using less water per window than kentcleen? And if you are not using less water which is very possible, then imagine what that could mean. It could mean that he is doing more than double the work you are doing per day. He may not be, but it is possible.
Peter Fogwill
www.window-tools.com
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Its down to personal choice,.. but whatever your choice is, there should be a heater perfectly suited to you, it shouldn't be a case of changing the way you work to suit the heater.
I agree 100% & that is what I'm waiting for. ;)
There's too much ill-conceived crap in the wfp market already, much of it by big names too! Many think they've got it spot on & they couldn't be further from the truth! ::)
Take a look at Unger's over engineered, over weight, time consuming & so pretty much useless multilink goosneck system ::) If you've got a spare hour to spend for each job you might find a use for it but even then I doubt it. ::)
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Its down to personal choice,.. but whatever your choice is, there should be a heater perfectly suited to you, it shouldn't be a case of changing the way you work to suit the heater.
I agree and have stopped trying to change the way people work, as most people won't change. Sometime with a post like this someone may try someone elses way, and never look back.
What I would say to Winp@oclean, how do you know you are using less water per window than kentcleen? And if you are not using less water which is very possible, then imagine what that could mean. It could mean that he is doing more than double the work you are doing per day. He may not be, but it is possible.
Peter Fogwill
www.window-tools.com
He isn't Peter, that I guarantee you. That is just a typical response & an easy reply.
Why oh why haven't you researched what most people consider the most vital aspect of a gas heater ::)
This is my gripe, people who many assume to get it right & to be honest SHOULD DO, very often don't! ::) People that "assume" faster flow= faster work, not always true! People that assume they can just unleash any ill-conceived crap on us & we'll work round it.
It's nonsense & just breeds less confidence.
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Can i have a list of the many other c.e heaters please?
If you look on alibaba.com you'll see about 550 different CE marked models available from Chinese manufacturers, most for only $60 or so apiece. Unfortunately there are huge minimum order numbers, import duty, VAT, & shipping costs to consider which is why Peter's heater is IMO very good value for money.
Nat have you tried contacting any of them? If not give it a try, what they have advertised and what they actually have is two completely different things, and only after a few weeks of negotiation do you find out the truth. The company in China that make the L5 for Eccotemp advertise having CE, but it is on a heater that is not suitable for us.
Peter Fogwill
www.window-tools.com
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Its down to personal choice,.. but whatever your choice is, there should be a heater perfectly suited to you, it shouldn't be a case of changing the way you work to suit the heater.
I agree and have stopped trying to change the way people work, as most people won't change. Sometime with a post like this someone may try someone elses way, and never look back.
What I would say to Winp@oclean, how do you know you are using less water per window than kentcleen? And if you are not using less water which is very possible, then imagine what that could mean. It could mean that he is doing more than double the work you are doing per day. He may not be, but it is possible.
Peter Fogwill
www.window-tools.com
He isn't Peter, that I guarantee you. That is just a typical response & an easy reply.
Why oh why haven't you researched what most people consider the most vital aspect of a gas heater ::)
This is my gripe, people who many assume to get it right & to be honest SHOULD DO, very often don't! ::) People that "assume" faster flow= faster work, not always true! People that assume they can just unleash any ill-conceived crap on us & we'll work round it.
It's nonsense & just breeds less confidence.
that is just your opinion and that is fine you are entitled to it. but I happen to agree with peters opinion. and this has come after trying all manners of method.
but that is just my opinion so it could be wrong.
free country and all that buy or don't buy ;D
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Its down to personal choice,.. but whatever your choice is, there should be a heater perfectly suited to you, it shouldn't be a case of changing the way you work to suit the heater.
I agree and have stopped trying to change the way people work, as most people won't change. Sometime with a post like this someone may try someone elses way, and never look back.
What I would say to Winp@oclean, how do you know you are using less water per window than kentcleen? And if you are not using less water which is very possible, then imagine what that could mean. It could mean that he is doing more than double the work you are doing per day. He may not be, but it is possible.
Peter Fogwill
www.window-tools.com
He isn't Peter, that I guarantee you. That is just a typical response & an easy reply.
Why oh why haven't you researched what most people consider the most vital aspect of a gas heater ::)
This is my gripe, people who many assume to get it right & to be honest SHOULD DO, very often don't! ::) People that "assume" faster flow= faster work, not always true! People that assume they can just unleash any ill-conceived crap on us & we'll work round it.
It's nonsense & just breeds less confidence.
that is just your opinion and that is fine you are entitled to it. but I happen to agree with peters opinion. and this has come after trying all manners of method.
but that is just my opinion so it could be wrong.
free country and all that buy or don't buy ;D
You're right Stu. Nearly 7 years of wfp & I too have tried the lot. Probably every combination of everything! Fast, slow, fans, pencils, f/glass poles, carbon poles, heavy brushes, light brushes, flocked, mono, dual trim, single trim etc etc. My whole agenda is to work in the most effective way, experience isn't an issue for me.
The point is, there should be no excuses needed! Nat has it spot on.
I was getting excited about this heater until Peter announced that he didn't realise that flow rate was of any importance. No disrespect to anyone but do you see a BIG problem with that statement?
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No disrespect to anyone but do you see a BIG problem with that statement?
well not for me but others I am sure it will be. And being the smart cookie he is I am sure he will address it
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No disrespect to anyone but do you see a BIG problem with that statement?
well not for me but others I am sure it will be. And being the smart cookie he is I am sure he will address it
I hope he does, really ;D For now I'll have to wait for a proper user review, my confidence in it has taken a wee dip. ;)
That's me done, my passion for good products is getting the better of me! ;D
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He isn't Peter, that I guarantee you. That is just a typical response & an easy reply.
Why oh why haven't you researched what most people consider the most vital aspect of a gas heater ::)
This is my gripe, people who many assume to get it right & to be honest SHOULD DO, very often don't! ::) People that "assume" faster flow= faster work, not always true! People that assume they can just unleash any ill-conceived crap on us & we'll work round it.
It's & just breeds less confidence.
You are right faster flow doesn't always mean faster work, but much more often than not it does.
I have made something available that people wanted. First and foremost I developed the hot water system to meet the needs of my customers. During the freeze up here in January I had customers visit me with 400L blocks of ice in the back of their vans, looking at me and asking what can be done. People that couldn't pay their mortgage that month never mind lay out over £2000 for a heated system. These people were my priority, and the system that they have will work perfectly with the new HotWash. If it can help other people out then fair enough all the better, and if possible i can work towards getting a system to suit everyone.
Now remember why we want hot water. Yes in test my customers reported advantages of hot water even in the summer, with reports that they wanted hot water in the summer as well as winter, but the hot comes into it's own to keep you working in the freezing weather.
The system I have will do this for everyone. You personally as far as I can see would have two choices for using hot water with my system. Firstly turn the flow up from your pump, this would give you hot water and keep you working in freezing weather. Secondly set up your system to circulate hot water through your heater into the top of your tank while your out working, again this would keep you working in freezing weather.
Now you may have to change your technique for the first choice but not such big problem if it was the difference between working or not working, even if you did use double the water and only worked a half day. The second choice would mean you would have to have a second pump, again not such a big deal when you consider the alternative. I know the guys above would be glad of any of the choices above when the alternative was no money coming in for 6 weeks.
I have a local guy coming next week who has 20 people working with backpacks from a large transit van. My system once fitted will be keeping all his men working when otherwise they wouldn't be. Now this guy won't be blaming me for not producing a small heater that can be fitted to each backpack, he will be grateful for the chance to get his men working when normally they wouldn't be.
This is the first time that I am aware of where the water flow has been mentioned as a problem, and it is noted and will be worked out one way or another, just like any other things brought to my attention. Remember also I have not tested the minimum water flow that the heater will reliably run at, it could very well run at the pressure you require. I will probably know the answer tomorrow.
Peter Fogwill
www.window-tools.com
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What do most people use per min then? I only have 250 litre but still use 2lit per min
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What do most people use per min then? I only have 250 litre but still use 2lit per minute
Interesting question Dave. How many hours can you work with your 250L. And how much of the 2L does it take to clean an average house window?
Peter
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what gets me about all this is that were only aware of low flow rate due to the L5, whats to say peters doesnt suffer from that issue? i found that i actually had to turn my flow rate down to use my L5 effectively.
It sounds like some people on here dont want Peters system to work or be a success ( i have to admit i was rather peeved at the lack of communication about the launch) , now they have found soemthing to moan about ie: the flow rate, they wont let go of it, some people are acting like dogs with bones.
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Just a tip for anyone who does find their heater needs more water to run than they normally use:
Turn the water flow numpty on the heater down to minimum & insert a tap washer (You may need to cut it to size and increase the size of the hole a tiny tiny bit) into the outlet connector on the heater. This will let pressure build up earlier in the heater & will activate the automatic ignition with less water flowing.
This works for EVERY gas heater I have seen so far,... :)
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I'd love to see twenty people with back packs streaming out of a Transit van. ???
Do they sit on each others laps?
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As regards how long gas will last.
I run 2 l5s from a 11kg refillable LPG bottle.
A full bottle lasts 3 days, working on housing estates constantly working.
Hope this is of some help, cheers.
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I'd love to see twenty people with back packs streaming out of a Transit van. ???
Do they sit on each others laps?
I don't know the ins and outs of how they get around, but I wouldn't think they all travelled in the back of the van.
Peter Fogwill
www.window-tools.com
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OK I tested the water flow and the heater will work reliably at 0.75 Litres per minute. It will work with less flow than that but not reliably.
I shouldn't think anyone would use a flow less than the 0.75 but if they did they could use Nat''s washer idea.
Peter Fogwill
www.window-tools.com
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Nice one Peter. :)
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OK I tested the water flow and the heater will work reliably at 0.75 Litres per minute. It will work with less flow than that but not reliably.
I shouldn't think anyone would use a flow less than the 0.75 but if they did they could use Nat''s washer idea.
Peter Fogwill
www.window-tools.com
Thanks for that Peter.
I also apologise for my earlier posts, they appear quite aggressive, think I got a little too hot under the collar! :-[
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Hang on. Have you tested that on a few jobs at that flow rate?
It's just that the L5 used to fire on a low flow rate and then change its mind half way through a house and cut out.
It firing at .75 a minute doesn't mean it will continuously through a job.
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Interesting question Dave. How many hours can you work with your 250L. And how much of the 2L does it take to clean an average house window?
I dont really no to be fair peter but it doesnt last to long after first cleans i would say around 5 hours i THINK i spend about 1 min per window for me like the one below i suppose thats classed as slow but i can't seemt to go faster than that without knowing the window is fully clean
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OK I tested the water flow and the heater will work reliably at 0.75 Litres per minute. It will work with less flow than that but not reliably.
I shouldn't think anyone would use a flow less than the 0.75 but if they did they could use Nat''s washer idea.
Peter Fogwill
www.window-tools.com
Thanks for that Peter.
I also apologise for my earlier posts, they appear quite aggressive, think I got a little too hot under the collar! :-[
No problem, but I didn't take them to be aggressive. I am used to far worse than that.
Phil, No I haven't but surely at 1 lpm the heater would run without any problems as its quite a bit over the 0.75 LPM.
Peter Fogwill
www.window-tools.com
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Hang on. Have you tested that on a few jobs at that flow rate?
It's just that the L5 used to fire on a low flow rate and then change its mind half way through a house and cut out.
It firing at .75 a minute doesn't mean it will continuously through a job.
Surely you don't use less than 1LPM?
I wonder what the lowest flow rate anyone uses would be.
Peter Fogwill
www.window-tools.com
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My pump does 6L per minute flat out. 1L would be very low indeed.
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Peter
I think you will find that Jeff Brimble uses half to two thirds of a litres a min.
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Peter
I think you will find that Jeff Brimble uses half to two thirds of a litres a min.
yes but he is an exception on the whole I would think.
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Call me excessive, but I prefer three to four litres a minute.
Would that flow rate allow the water to heat up enough?
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Peter
I think you will find that Jeff Brimble uses half to two thirds of a litres a min.
Yes I did think of Jeff when I was asking the question. And yes it would heat the water no problem at that flow rate.
Peter
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Call me excessive, but I prefer three to four litres a minute
Does the water not spash all over the glass frames at that amount
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I use more than .75 a minute. /Just saying, the L5 tricks you. Just thought it would need longer testing at the low flow to make sure.
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Dave
NO, I use 3 mm jets. No splash back whatsoever.
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I don't know if anyone is interested but I have a relativly cheap flue avalable that attaches to the top of the heater and the exhaust can be directed to wherever is suitable. The cost is £11 plus £3.50 delivery plus vat, Total cost £17.00 If anyone is interested I can put some on ebay.
Peter
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I don't know if anyone is interested but I have a relativly cheap flue avalable that attaches to the top of the heater and the exhaust can be directed to wherever is suitable. The cost is £11 plus £3.50 delivery plus vat, Total cost £17.00 If anyone is interested I can put some on ebay.
Peter
Sounds very good. Any photo's?
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Hi is ther a pic of this flu?
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I just listed one on ebay with pics and details.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120660540081
Peter
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I just listed one on ebay with pics and details.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120660540081
Peter
is there any more of the actuall heaters left??
Notice all 10 have been sold
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Yes I have plenty left, there is still one left from the batch of ten.
Peter Fogwill
www.window-tools.com
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I just listed one on ebay with pics and details.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120660540081
Peter
Superb! & a VERY reasonable price too! 8)
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Yes I have plenty left, there is still one left from the batch of ten.
Peter Fogwill
www.window-tools.com
Great well I should be in position at end of week to get one,been murder in the freezing cold this week
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How would it fit to van? Would it work going through floor instead of roof?(the vent) I can't wait to see pics of your full hotwash, when are they coming?
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I don't believe half of this, i'm with macmac.
Sort of.
A high flow means you can work faster. So we disagree there.
What we (as in hot users) mean by min flow is that required to make it flame up.And the settings for this are often safety related. The figures quoted are highly improbable, and would lead to the flame staying on when the tap is shut but the pump still going,this will lead to boiling inside the system, and a probable burst.
It's far more likely that peter has got this wrong, or is egging it a bit.Other than that it looks a good buy and will do what most of you want.
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Slumpbuster, I am not sure if you are agreeing with the statement or disagreeing that "A high flow means you can work faster"?
I think what you mean is if the water could go through and light the heater at 0.75 litres per minute then the water will overheat inside the heater and cause it to burst? If this is what you mean then no it can't as it has an overheat protection and will turn the heater off. If you were running the water that slowly through the heater then you wouldn't have the heat turned up much.
I don't really know what you mean tap off and pump still running? Do you mean a tap to the pole turned off with a build up of pressure in the heater keeping the burner on? If so then no again, the water has to be passing through the heater at the least 0.6LPM to keep the burner on.
Remember this heater has CE certification so it must meet the safety requirements for use in this country.
Peter Fogwill
www.window-tools.com
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How would it fit to van? Would it work going through floor instead of roof?(the vent) I can't wait to see pics of your full hotwash, when are they coming?
Chopsi I am still working on it, wading through red tape but getting there. No you cant go through the floor, well not as easily.
Peter Fogwill
www,window-tools.com
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How would it fit to van? Would it work going through floor instead of roof?(the vent) I can't wait to see pics of your full hotwash, when are they coming?
Chopsi I am still working on it, wading through red tape but getting there. No you cant go through the floor, well not as easily.
Peter Fogwill
www,window-tools.com
A pic of the vent fitted would be great. It looks like a much neater solution than what I currently use.
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Nat I have updated pictures on ebay.
This is made for my heater so it wouldn't fit the L5. My heater also has a shut off should the flue become blocked.
There is also a securing bracket not shown in the pictures.
Peter Fogwill
www.window-tools.com
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can i come through and get one peter?
BTW....all these words being banded about like fogwill and hotwash has fried my brain...its computing as fogwash in my head...so cant we call your new system the fogwash? :)
just kidding....
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Hogwash?
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can i come through and get one peter?
BTW....all these words being banded about like fogwill and hotwash has fried my brain...its computing as fogwash in my head...so cant we call your new system the fogwash? :)
just kidding....
Yes scrimmy You can pop along tomorrow and get a HotFog.
Peter Fogwill
www.window-tools.com
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scrimmy, you may want to give me a ring first before you set off, as we are supposed to be getting more heavy snow. And if it is anything like the last lot you may not get home.
Peter
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i will check the weather and def give you a bell peter ;)
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How does that vent fit through the roof? The pic is small & I can't see how it would seal & keep the rain out?!
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scrimmy, you may want to give me a ring first before you set off, as we are supposed to be getting more heavy snow. And if it is anything like the last lot you may not get home.
Peter
In other words Scrimmy "you ain't staying wi me over night"!!!!! ;D ;D
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How does that vent fit through the roof? The pic is small & I can't see how it would seal & keep the rain out?!
Its not really for that although it could be done. It is more for attaching to your existing roof vent without the thing on the top. The part on the top would keep the rain out if fitted as intended on the outside of the wall. I was thinking more like the flue being outside the back door while the door is open to take any exhaust away from inside the van.
Peter Fogwill
www.window-tools.com
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lol
fogwills B&B :D
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just bort one
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Inside the back will be fine.Providing the van has a bulk head.
My heater was designed to work without a flue at all(the example is a catering trailer with people working nearby but open).
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Ok guys,.. you've had a few days...
What do you think of the new heater? Anyone brave enough to post pics of it yet?
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got mine thursday, not had chance to fit it as i was waiting on the gas bottle and fittings to arrive, i hope to fit it to my rear door tomorrow if i can work in this weather, as soon as i have it in and runnng i will take some pics and do a little write up on ACS nat
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got mine thursday, not had chance to fit it as i was waiting on the gas bottle and fittings to arrive, i hope to fit it to my rear door tomorrow if i can work in this weather, as soon as i have it in and runnng i will take some pics and do a little write up on ACS nat
You'll not be using your L5 then Ste?
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not sure yet mike, peters is supposed to be able to run two men so if it can comfortably i may sell the L5 or i may keep it as a spare hot just in case
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Ste,.. run both, 1 for each man.
That way you'll be able to control the temp at the brush head much better & in a couple of weeks you can give us the first proper side by side review of the 2 units,.. see which is best!
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Is there frost protection on Hogwill's heater?
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there is not on the ones he is selling on ebay, but is on the full package he is going to sell, But when he is selling it who knows ???
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In a few weeks aparently
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bought one last night, £185 inc del. spoke to him on the phone too, nice man.
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bought one last night, £185 inc del. spoke to him on the phone too, nice man.
will you be upgrading to the full lpg tank/frost stat system when its available?
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bought one last night, £185 inc del. spoke to him on the phone too, nice man.
will you be upgrading to the full lpg tank/frost stat system when its available?
not unless i really need to. its only going to be used for winter and 1st cleans and gutter jobs in summer.
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Is anyone going to get one of his systems just for the frost protection so that is cycles the water at night?
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I thought I'd let you know that our Eccotemp L5 model has finally received its CE approval. I know that most of your folks only need it during the winter months, but it is also a great use for the summer months for recreational activities. We have it listed on amazon.co.uk right now. The link is
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0058J54G8.
I thought I'd share it. Thanks!
/John with Eccotemp Systems and GES.
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I thought I'd let you know that our Eccotemp L5 model has finally received its CE approval. I know that most of your folks only need it during the winter months, but it is also a great use for the summer months for recreational activities. We have it listed on amazon.co.uk right now. The link is
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0058J54G8.
I thought I'd share it. Thanks!
/John with Eccotemp Systems and GES.
John your local to us! where in parkstone! is it ok to pop over at some point!
Andy