[Taylor & Taylor WC Services]

I have a guy full time and pay him £45 a day for 6 1/2 hrs a day which works out at £6.92 an hour. Is this fair? Sometimes he works alone.

[Rogue Trader]

As far as i am concerned No.

Though it all depends what his daily turnover is.

[Dean Taberner]

Hi,

I've got a team of volunteers,

Although it doesn't suit everyone it works for me.

Cheers,

Dean.

[Lee GLS]

i dont employee anybody, but 8 years ago while i was starting up, i worked for a couple of different windies, and they both paid me £80 a day, that was 8.30-3.30/4.00ish.

I going by that it isnt fair, but as matt says, it depends on what his turnover is.

[bobplum]

I have a guy full time and pay him £45 a day for 6 1/2 hrs a day which works out at £6.92 an hour. Is this fair? Sometimes he works alone.

do you think it is fair for what he does and does he think it is fair for what he does?

[Taylor & Taylor WC Services]

His turnover in a day in approx £150

[Dean Taberner]

In the big picture 45 for 6ish hrs a day is 7quid+ an hour which is considerably more than the min wage so I'd say yes, its very fair.

Dean.

[Taylor & Taylor WC Services]

In the big picture 45 for 6ish hrs a day is 7quid+ an hour which is considerably more than the min wage so I'd say yes, its very fair.

Dean.

Thank you Dean, that's how I was looking at it!

[Dean Taberner]

Whatever you turnover is your business,

You've had the bottle to take the gamble,

Turnover versus payment is irrelevant as there are many many costs that an employee with a stable job and 4-5wks holiday pay do not have to worry about.

Dean.

[geefree]

I think turnover versus payment is very relevant ,  profit is what makes the world go round,

if you turned over £150... and gave your employee £100.....

your going backwards

[Dean Taberner]

What I mean by irrelevant is irrelevant in the employers favour as in the employer decides what wages are paid based on what is best to take the business forward,

Dean.

[geefree]

if you had a turn over of £200 and paid an employee £100 (50%) would you say that was going backwards?

Thats up to you, if you are giving him 50% of the turnover , and you are covering costs out of your 50% , before you can think of a profit.... but i doubt at paying someone  £100 from a turnover of £150 will make any profit at all,

to me thats going backwards , employing someone only to take the strain of the employers workload.

when you can trim your round , get rid of low payers , try replace them with better calls, and work alone.

I dont employ , so my comments may be way out 

Just my little mind finkin' 

[P @ F]

In my eyes pay them as little as poss , the ones i took on were a waste of spunk , fine in my van with a 2 man set up , put them out in the baby van  and they all took the P, productivity was less costs was more , and service as in the quality went through the floor , they dont want to do our job no matter what you pay them , this country is full of lazy tw*ts who all want an easy ride , i dont have one so why the fook should they ?

Anybody wanna work for me , its a doddle , if your the right bloke , if i was any more laid back i'd fall over !

Rich  

[formb]

If you get the right guy, you want to keep, you have to pay them the right money.
 

[geefree]

Nice one 

[Taylor & Taylor WC Services]

In my eyes pay them as little as poss , the ones i took on were a waste of spunk , fine in my van with a 2 man set up , put them out in the baby van  and they all took the P, productivity was less costs was more , and service as in the quality went through the floor , they dont want to do our job no matter what you pay them , this country is full of lazy tw*ts who all want an easy ride , i dont have one so why the fook should they ?

Anybody wanna work for me , its a doddle , if your the right bloke , if i was any more laid back i'd fall over !

Rich  

Great post!!

I have a guy now who's reliable, works hard and does a decent job but I have asked him to work alone until the middle of February whilst I build the business and his enthusiasm and standards have dropped a lot.

He is the third guy I have took on and they all start with enthusiasm and end up poope.......the first one I got rid of, the 2nd used it between jobs and now this one seems to be losing interest.....but this ones the one I want to keep!!

[geefree]

In my eyes pay them as little as poss , the ones i took on were a waste of spunk , fine in my van with a 2 man set up , put them out in the baby van  and they all took the P, productivity was less costs was more , and service as in the quality went through the floor , they dont want to do our job no matter what you pay them , this country is full of lazy tw*ts who all want an easy ride , i dont have one so why the fook should they ?

Anybody wanna work for me , its a doddle , if your the right bloke , if i was any more laid back i'd fall over !

Rich  

do you know i agree with everything you say , young lads treat it as the worst job in the world, and to their cool mates . , they are the pits..... so given the stick they get from their peers , they will treat wimdow cleaning like one step up from being a dole dosser....

So whilst i agree that its hard to find people who respect it as a job ,..and most will be embarrased to tell their mates what they do....

i think a decent wage with bonuses and a good relationship  will  pay dividends.

[formb]

People want different  things from their job money is never everything, but I do think that paying someone as little as that who you trust to work alone is a bad idea.

You won't get too many that you trust on their own.

[P @ F]

Gazza , just read your post mate , fookin in a nutshell , couldnt be any more right mate, my advice would be to any of you out there , before you get the charlie big spuds head on , as i did , and failed .

Its all very well takin on and takin on work , but you get to the point when you need 2 vans to cover it , chances are you got loads of crap jobs on the books , dont bother with it , before you even think of van 2 step back and look at your round , when its full of top dollar work that you cant do on your own van 2 is an option , but me myself have learned the hard way , i just am upping all prices by £1 or £2 in the past week , the difference in income is mental , i finally feel that my round is gonna come good , its a beast of a round and i feel that employing for me is a no no , dont need the grief .
Commercial is rocky too at the mo , just lost in the region of 7-8K a year , nobodys fault , just the way it is , but if any thing its given me more drive to sort out my own affairs before running about for others .
Not a dig at me old chum ........you know who you are ! , i'm still here mate

Number 1 for a while now , take stock , and again ATTACK !

RICH

  

[Taylor & Taylor WC Services]

People want different  things from their job money is never everything, but I do think that paying someone as little as that who you trust to work alone is a bad idea.

You won't get too many that you trust on their own.

I see your point.......he's 50 has 2 houses both paid and health problems prevent him working any stressful or long hour jobs. So in a way my job is perfect for him. I'm sure the moneys not the issue? I think he may struggle with the extra work.

Also asking him to work alone now is only going to benefit both of us in a  few months as I can then afford to give him a pay rise. As it's allowing me to canvass an extra £100 on average a day. So by the end February I'll be in a far better position.

[Dean Taberner]

I have the complete solution for this but if I told you I honestly would have to kill you.

Seriously I would.


Dean.

[formb]

Sometimes people just want to know what is happening. Before you push him into doing something he is not keen on ask the question. Explain that if it works out and he can turn over X by X then you'll put his wages up to X.

I've never really employed many people older than me but if he's 50 then surely he will know what it is that he wants from the job.

[geefree]

I have the complete solution for this but if I told you I honestly would have to kill you.

Seriously I would.


Dean.

waste of time typing then Dean eh ?

[Crystal-clear]

ever heard of the saying, 'pay peanuts, get monkeys'. thats why i pay 50% but the guys have to manage their own round as well for that i.e update work sheets (who's paid). all i do is pay them the short fall if they dont collect enough and ring them at the end of every week telling them what cheques ive received.

oh they have to go to the yard fill up with water, clean equipment and make sure van is always clean, i do nothing but have decent honest guys work for me i could earn alot more by paying alot less but think of all the headaches i'd have just for trying to save a couple of hundred quid a week, i'd basically be working then for that £200. personally not worth it in my eyes.

been doing it like this for 6 years now and it pays for my extravagent lifestyle and my ferrari

So u got them working as self employed?

[andy1975]

i used to have africans,fantastic workers,100% reliable,never let me down,just came here like all foriegners WANT TO WORK.i paid £60 from 8-4(only problem none of them could drive)

[geefree]

have they been deported then now ??

[ronnie paton]

dean you have volunters tell me more!!

[Clive McDonald]

ditto. Three helpers three strikes.
Agree with all above.

Workers okay with me lifting boosting leading.Stepping in when misunderstandings with customers come up.Own iniatative? no.

I always did the backs, and often finished first.Hard work for me.

Paying more doesn't seem to help, they just take it easier.

[Ryan @ Transparent, Carlisle]

ever heard of the saying, 'pay peanuts, get monkeys'.

check my "signature"

[ronnie paton]

im having and have always had a problem and i really think the way forward is to give each job/round a price to wht you will pay your staff.

they get paid has long has no complaits, they are made self employed but hire your vehicle and system.

the right person can earn top money, you dont have to worry is the work going to get done are they having breaks every five mins ect

and if they dont do properly they dont get paid for the job..........

[geefree]

They still will always take the p.  honest , hard workers are a dying breed , todays society is me, me me... get as much as possible for me , working as little as possible.

[Ryan @ Transparent, Carlisle]

Great post!!

I have a guy now who's reliable, works hard and does a decent job but I have asked him to work alone until the middle of February whilst I build the business and his enthusiasm and standards have dropped a lot.

He is the third guy I have took on and they all start with enthusiasm and end up poope.......the first one I got rid of, the 2nd used it between jobs and now this one seems to be losing interest.....but this ones the one I want to keep!!

the guy you want to keep is getting £45 a day, and working on his own?

Try a little harder and u might get to keep him?

[Newannaive]

In my eyes pay them as little as poss , the ones i took on were a waste of spunk , fine in my van with a 2 man set up , put them out in the baby van  and they all took the P, productivity was less costs was more , and service as in the quality went through the floor , they dont want to do our job no matter what you pay them , this country is full of lazy tw*ts who all want an easy ride , i dont have one so why the fook should they ?

Anybody wanna work for me , its a doddle , if your the right bloke , if i was any more laid back i'd fall over !

Rich  

if he's that good give him a rise 

Great post!!

I have a guy now who's reliable, works hard and does a decent job but I have asked him to work alone until the middle of February whilst I build the business and his enthusiasm and standards have dropped a lot.

He is the third guy I have took on and they all start with enthusiasm and end up poope.......the first one I got rid of, the 2nd used it between jobs and now this one seems to be losing interest.....but this ones the one I want to keep!!

[Newannaive]

Great post!!

I have a guy now who's reliable, works hard and does a decent job but I have asked him to work alone until the middle of February whilst I build the business and his enthusiasm and standards have dropped a lot.

He is the third guy I have took on and they all start with enthusiasm and end up poope.......the first one I got rid of, the 2nd used it between jobs and now this one seems to be losing interest.....but this ones the one I want to keep!!

the guy you want to keep is getting £45 a day, and working on his own?

Try a little harder and u might get to keep him?

this^^  :

[Crystal-clear]

im having and have always had a problem and i really think the way forward is to give each job/round a price to wht you will pay your staff.

they get paid has long has no complaits, they are made self employed but hire your vehicle and system.

the right person can earn top money, you dont have to worry is the work going to get done are they having breaks every five mins ect

and if they dont do properly they dont get paid for the job..........

So we can take em on as self employed in the long run i thought it all needs to be paye and stuff?

[ants]

mine gets 25% of turnover he likes to keep track and time jobs to see what hes on.at on point today he earned £22.50 an hour,keeps them keen that way.

[ants]

mine gets 25% of turnover he likes to keep track and time jobs to see what hes on.at on point today he earned £22.50 an hour,keeps them keen that way.

p.s. He works with me

[ronnie paton]

im not a accountant but iv been advised this id possible

many trades do it legally

ant so your lad does about 7 ton on is own ye i believe u

[Gav Camm lammy 283]

Whatever you turnover is your business,

You've had the bottle to take the gamble,

Turnover versus payment is irrelevant as there are many many costs that an employee with a stable job and 4-5wks holiday pay do not have to worry about.

Dean.

wot about their desirable pension
oh yeah theyve opted out lol

[Ryan @ Transparent, Carlisle]

mine gets 25% of turnover he likes to keep track and time jobs to see what hes on.at on point today he earned £22.50 an hour,keeps them keen that way.

not bad if you send a kid out and he is making 90 bar an hour an u payin the kid 22.50

22.50(25percent) x 4 = 90

[Crystal-clear]

its true Ronnie my mate works as a taxi driver they tell him how they want him to work and its his only source of income they must have 60 drivers and yes he is self employed they all are

[ants]

mine gets 25% of turnover he likes to keep track and time jobs to see what hes on.at on point today he earned £22.50 an hour,keeps them keen that way.

not bad if you send a kid out and he is making 90 bar an hour an u payin the kid 22.50

22.50(25percent) x 4 = 90

We dont earn that all day,that was at one point today when we had a load of houses together.Then we stopped for bait an a chat and earned  £0

[ronnie paton]

25 percent of what you both earn?

[mikecam]

They still will always take the p.  honest , hard workers are a dying breed , todays society is me, me me... get as much as possible for me , working as little as possible.

So why are people employing when they have enough work for themselves, you think they may be philanthropists ? Or, as above, do you think they are trying to get as much as possible, working as little as possible?

[Handyman Window Cleaning Services]

if you had a turn over of £200 and paid an employee £100 (50%) would you say that was going backwards?

yes cos you still got other expenses to pay  and then at the end of the day hes earning more than you.

i pay £6.50 an hour but if he works on his own he gets £8 an hour

[Ian101]

if ur staff think ur making a fortune just take em to the fuel station when u fill up .. did it yesterday £91 to fill transit  ... he couldnt beleive it then got onto insurances etc

[Ian101]

Think I must have been lucky ... got a young lad of 17 nearly 18 from local college on 3 months work experiance costs me nowt (just proper insurance and H&S systems in place) ... Welsh Government pays him £50 a week (I bung him a little extra on a Friday) .... the guy is great can be trusted to wfp a house on his own so really handy when got a few together or he does fronts and I do rears .... mid of feb I can keep him and have another one or send this one back and have another 1 for 3 months on same scheme but this lad to good to loose so keeping him part time for a month or 2 then going full time with him in April as still need another 90 odd customers to make round jam packed full ..... not sure what going to offer him yet but prob a littleabove min wage but with a very good bonus scheme in place ..... bonus scheme weve got now is any new customers that approach us then we split the first clean 50/50 any he gets on his own time then he gets 100% of first clean also got a van target of 35 new customers by end of Feb which if we hit then he will also get my 50% of the first cleans ... he is well up for it 

[formb]

Think I must have been lucky ... got a young lad of 17 nearly 18 from local college on 3 months work experiance costs me nowt (just proper insurance and H&S systems in place) ... Welsh Government pays him £50 a week (I bung him a little extra on a Friday) .... the guy is great can be trusted to wfp a house on his own so really handy when got a few together or he does fronts and I do rears .... mid of feb I can keep him and have another one or send this one back and have another 1 for 3 months on same scheme but this lad to good to loose so keeping him part time for a month or 2 then going full time with him in April as still need another 90 odd customers to make round jam packed full ..... not sure what going to offer him yet but prob a littleabove min wage but with a very good bonus scheme in place ..... bonus scheme weve got now is any new customers that approach us then we split the first clean 50/50 any he gets on his own time then he gets 100% of first clean also got a van target of 35 new customers by end of Feb which if we hit then he will also get my 50% of the first cleans ... he is well up for it 

That sounds like a cracking scam, you don't think the welsh government would fancy sending some up this way do you?

[Taylor & Taylor WC Services]

if you had a turn over of £200 and paid an employee £100 (50%) would you say that was going backwards?

yes cos you still got other expenses to pay  and then at the end of the day hes earning more than you.

i pay £6.50 an hour but if he works on his own he gets £8 an hour

Exactly......I pay nearly £7 an hour which I don't think is a bad earner for him in his circumstances.

The fact that I want to keep him shouldn't mean I need to offer silly money that some of these posts seem to say I should? I have offered him a raise but only when he works alone to £8.40 an hour as long as he reaches a certain realistic daily target.

My other option is to go back out with him and employ a canvasser I can train myself which seems the most likely option for me at the moment.

[Helen]

[quote author=Taylor & Taylor WC Services link=topic=116621.msg1006468#msg1006468
My other option is to go back out with him and employ a canvasser I can train myself which seems the most likely option for me at the moment.

Why not keep working together. The cleaning gets done in less time and then you could both canvass.
The guy knows the way you work, so he would be ideal, you still get to oversee the work (whether cleaning or canvassing). This should keep matey's interest going for the job and you could offer him an incentive for every job he takes on. When we employed we used to do this sort of thing with the guys and it worked well (at times ) Amazing sometimes what dangling the proverbial carrot can do

[Helen]

im having and have always had a problem and i really think the way forward is to give each job/round a price to wht you will pay your staff.

they get paid has long has no complaits, they are made self employed but hire your vehicle and system.

the right person can earn top money, you dont have to worry is the work going to get done are they having breaks every five mins ect

and if they dont do properly they dont get paid for the job..........

So we can take em on as self employed in the long run i thought it all needs to be paye and stuff?

I think it all comes down to the "hire" bit. They would basically be paying to rent the work, van and equipment needed to do the job.
They would then have to be paid directly by the customer I think.

Someone else mentioned taxi work and this happens for taxi drivers. Yes they can work "off the rank" so to speak, but they have to pay for the privilidge of doing so. They then take the fare from the customer themselves. Even if they own their own license and car, they still pay a rank fee which is basically paying for the work.
Hairdressers can do the same, they rent a chair,workspace and equipment to do the job and then take the fee for themselves.
If I were to go this route I would check it out very very carefully though. The insurance on the vehicles would probably be higher as standard insurance usually does not cover hiring the vehicle out. You would still be liable for maintaining the vehicles and equipment. It needs a lot of looking into, but then so does actual employing, so you need to see which would suit you best.

[www.mrgutters.co.uk]

i have my own round not loads of work as i stuffed about for a long time and lost alot.

but currently have about 7000 a year in my own work about 3 dyas a months max .

but after the missus was made redundat i started working for a local guy he works himself and has 10 of us working for him ,

houses range in price from £10 up to 100 sometimes 120
and he charges 1.5 times for insides .

we use our own vans or cars etc but he supplies us with stationary , clothes for work and a lady in the office prints new work sheets collects and tallies cheques .

and for that we lose 20 % plus vat so roughly 25% each week

he earns a healthy bit but we can also earn good money if we get stuck in

i personally think its a very fair way of doing it .

we all offer the same service we would normally if the work was our own as we get decent money.

shawn

[landy2]

shawn are you in the manchester area

[Crystal-clear]

No he is in london , thats intresting shawn some of us have plans to rent, or employ it would be great if i could drop you an email ,just wana know a few more basics, Ie , your contract between you and the round owner,i guess the customers pay you, you deal with everything? what happens if a customer cancels or if you gain a customer?

you are truly self employed thou so its perfect.

[www.mrgutters.co.uk]

hi all

firstly he is rather relaxed and i first met him he handed over 1k in work sheets to me not knowing me from a bar of soap.

we just chatted in his van for like 30 min and i suppose you just get the feeling what someones like.

he trusts me and all his guys im sure.

tbh there have been times when i have had the oppurtunity to take work on when people have asked me , to go solo with them.or even extras but i always do it for his company and i think when there is trust etc like me not stealing work etc.or anyone else

it builds a good working relationship.

as far as the way things are run :

we work : any cash we keep !

all cheques payable to him!

then say i work my first month

week one takings

turnover :300.00

fee:          75.00

takings 100.00 cash
              85.00 cheques

we meet : i give him the cheques he takes the fee off

so he gives me a cheque for 10.00 £

week2:

turn over 400

takings

cash 50
cheques 210

fee:   100

he pays me 110£ in a cheque and then if any cheques have come in from week before they get added

so its up to you to keep track of debts.

but if a custy does a runner he will cover the debt less his fee

pretty i think

so weeks i might only get a small cheque like 40 -50 other might be 400 so its swings and roundabouts and it saves finding yur own work
   

[Simply Clean Windows]

Shawn,im quite shocked that you earn only upto £400 for a weeks work,surely you would be better off getting your own work,especially for the living cost around here.

[Crystal-clear]

what i would do is if you pick up i would credit your account with 3x the value but if you lost for any reason i would deduct 3x the value , however i would canvass for you free ofc.

it would make sure one declares it also loosing work -3x makes sure a good job is done

[www.mrgutters.co.uk]

i personally only do a couple days 3 max a week and mix it in with my own

so do maybe 150 of his nip off do a well paid job of mine like a block of flats at 120 takes an hour etc.

so for me it works bud and personally my overheads are very low i own my van all my equipment nothing is paid on loans or credit. no credit cards etc

simple life means i dont need a lot to live on bud.

ive got rent . food , fuel, etc... but we have a reasonable life ... i personally prefer working until early afternoon and spending rest of the time with my wife and kids ...got a 2year old boy and a 1 month old girl

but i average for myself from him around 250-300 a week after deductions

[www.mrgutters.co.uk]

if someone comes out and im doing the neighbour i just pop it on his round .

to be honest i dont put maximum effort in he has guys who earn like 700 but maybe what i should of said earlier is the other guys .. pay a £100 rent each week plus vat

only myself and two guys are on the 25% as we work as and when and split a round between two of us

[ants]

25 percent of what you both earn?


yes.
like i said he works with me .he gets 25% of our total turnover