[tatman]

Have noticed now that this site is almost a wfp site. Trad cleaning is rarely an issue. I have been window cleaning trad for nearly two years and have built up a decent round by myself. I am interested in wfp and have been looking at it for a while. What do you guys all think the future holds for the trad window cleaners. Wfp hasnt really taken off big time yet round here. I know 10 local cleaners only one is wfp. Do you in a few years it will be the other way round. Also is it worth coverting a domestic cleaning round to wfp especially if some of the prices range from £8 upwards.

[Sir Squeaky]

It's possibly worth doing depending on what sort of work you have.
It won't benefit everyone though.

Trad cleaning will still be alive and well in 10 years, maybe even 30 years.

It's popular on this site as the sheep have all followed each other.
Away from the forum most people haven't heard of it, or if they have, they're not in the slight bit interested.

The bigger the forum gets, the bigger wfp gets!
It's annoying for trad cleaners though, as there's barely anything worth reading now.

Bear in mind though...the reason there's so many WFP topics is there's clearly a lot of problems that come with it.

There's a fairly even spread of trad and wfp'ers on here, but it's the wfp'ers asking all the questions...

Rog.

[simon knight]

Well said Rog!

[Mike_G]

I am sure it will be around for a long, long time. I cant imagine to many places will have the insides done by wfp.

[Paul Edwards]

I am sure it will be around for a long, long time. I cant imagine to many places will have the insides done by wfp.

That will change soon enough...

[tatman]

yea think your right squeaky about type of work as im sure some of my work wouldnt be any good wfp due to a number of reasons including access problems and prices. As for people not hearing of it like i said around here theres very little wfp cleaners but still loads of trads i know most of them. But on the other hand watched a big house being cleaned next to one i was doing the other week looks interesting.

[LSB]

i dont see any way that i could convert my trad round to wfp , i am very busy with many houses in each street, the whole round is very compact ! in many cases there is no parking , hindered access and many other reasons that we trad guys could come up with !
i do know a w/c who is wfp with a trolley system but he has a round of the odd house here and there
and it works for him !
i do have a basic wfp system di bottle etc / using the site external tap , i very rarely use it and prefer to clean trad !
anything high / dangerous i just turn it down !
good luck whichever decision you make ,   lloyd.

[Paul Coleman]

It's possibly worth doing depending on what sort of work you have.
It won't benefit everyone though.

Trad cleaning will still be alive and well in 10 years, maybe even 30 years.

It's popular on this site as the sheep have all followed each other.
Away from the forum most people haven't heard of it, or if they have, they're not in the slight bit interested.

The bigger the forum gets, the bigger wfp gets!
It's annoying for trad cleaners though, as there's barely anything worth reading now.

Bear in mind though...the reason there's so many WFP topics is there's clearly a lot of problems that come with it.

There's a fairly even spread of trad and wfp'ers on here, but it's the wfp'ers asking all the questions...

Rog.

I think that's a pretty fair and accurate assesment Rog.  It may be that window cleaning generally (both styles) will reduce too as low maintenance glass takes a foothold. That will take many years though.  I lost a customer about 7 or 8 years ago to this stuff.  Although the rain will not hit all the windows, they may be able to keep them half reasonable by a standard hose down.  As the technology develops, the results will probably improve too.

[simon knight]

You're right about the self clean glass. I cleaned some windows above a kitchen return made from the stuff. All it needed was a quick wipe-over with a dry micro. Great technology but I hope it doesn't catch on too quickly.

[Ian Lancaster]

You're right about the self clean glass. I cleaned some windows above a kitchen return made from the stuff. All it needed was a quick wipe-over with a dry micro. Great technology but I hope it doesn't catch on too quickly.

But that's the point, isn't it?  So the dirt is easier to get off, but someones's still got to get it off.  People don't have their windows cleaned because the dirt's hard to get off, they have them cleaned because they're dirty, and they can't (or won't) deal with it themselves.  If the dirt's easier to get off it's to our advantage.

Self cleaning glass is a sales gimmick, albeit one which has consumed innumerable hours of research, and I don't believe there will ever be a genuine "self cleaning glass".  It would need to be some material or coating to which nothing could ever adhere but would still be transparent.  To be genuinely "self cleaning" it would need to reject ALL contamination on contact - relying on rain to wash it off afterwards will never work satisfactorily.

[AuRavelling79]

Self cleaning will IMO make inroads in commercial work rather than domestic. On domestic clean frames are important especially UPVC.

[Moderator David@stives]

Roger

Who are you calling a sheep, you are so patronising sometimes

[Russell Macdonald]

It's possibly worth doing depending on what sort of work you have.
It won't benefit everyone though.

Trad cleaning will still be alive and well in 10 years, maybe even 30 years.

It's popular on this site as the sheep have all followed each other.
Away from the forum most people haven't heard of it, or if they have, they're not in the slight bit interested.

The bigger the forum gets, the bigger wfp gets!
It's annoying for trad cleaners though, as there's barely anything worth reading now.

Bear in mind though...the reason there's so many WFP topics is there's clearly a lot of problems that come with it.

There's a fairly even spread of trad and wfp'ers on here, but it's the wfp'ers asking all the questions...

Rog.

I will go along with that Rog, as for trad cleaning there will always be a place in WC for it. As there are many time Wfp would take too long compared to trading it.

Macc

[simon knight]

You're right about the self clean glass. I cleaned some windows above a kitchen return made from the stuff. All it needed was a quick wipe-over with a dry micro. Great technology but I hope it doesn't catch on too quickly.

But that's the point, isn't it?  So the dirt is easier to get off, but someones's still got to get it off.  People don't have their windows cleaned because the dirt's hard to get off, they have them cleaned because they're dirty, and they can't (or won't) deal with it themselves.  If the dirt's easier to get off it's to our advantage.

Self cleaning glass is a sales gimmick, albeit one which has consumed innumerable hours of research, and I don't believe there will ever be a genuine "self cleaning glass".  It would need to be some material or coating to which nothing could ever adhere but would still be transparent.  To be genuinely "self cleaning" it would need to reject ALL contamination on contact - relying on rain to wash it off afterwards will never work satisfactorily.

I can see what you're saying but the thing is that these windows hadn't been touched since they were put in (3 months ish?) and they were pretty near clean still. It's not our problem but 50 years down the line future generations of window cleaners will talk in wonder about the days of 6 weekly or bi-monthly cleans as they phone Mrs Smith to see whether her windows need their annual dust-off.

[Tosh]

Roger

Who are you calling a sheep, you are so patronising sometimes

I'm 'Baa Baaing' all the way to the bank; with a smile on my face!

For the first time in four years (I started window cleaning from scratch) I'm on top of all my bills, got money in the bank and awaiting a nice inheritance comming through!

I'm as happy as a sheep in dip!

[eddie d]

squeaky/you cant deny that wfp is 100 times safer than the ladder .
i found out to my own deprement how dangerous ladders can be .

[Ian_Giles]

I would guess that in a few years, unless things change for some reason, then WFP will become the norm, trad window cleaning will always be needed, not all work can be done with WFP.
I personally think that the only thing that will go will be ladders, I think it is inevitable, whether we like it or not at some point the regulations will squeeze us off ladders altogether.

WFP will continue to grow in popularity, you only have to see the direction this forum has taken; of course there are lots of Trad window cleaners on here, and questions do get asked, but WFP is more complicated, it is more involved, particularly with regards the equipment, poles, pumps, brushes, jets, hoses, systems, pricing, methods or work and so on and so forth.

As for price...what the hell is wrong with cleaning an acount for £8.00?? I do loads at that price and I'm earning more money now than I ever have in my life.
I don't do a single domestic account trad, they are 100% WFP and that includes bungalows...and one of those is only an £8.00 one!...hell one of them is only £6.00

I can't see the 'self cleaning glass' ever being a real problem, spiders will still live in the corners and lay eggs, flys will still crap on the windows, sills will still get dirty as will the rest of the frames.
It's real use is going to be on a commercial level, high rise offices with acres of glass and so on...

Squeaks is quite correct though, trad will never die...only ladders will

Ian

[tonylee]

hi all.
just want to say my round is mainly domestic work with prices from £8.00. i changed everyone to wfp. last august and would not go back to trad now.
i have had some problems with the system (teething troubles) but none with its results and the customers love it...now.
as for self cleaning glass i am still to be convinced. when im asked about it i just say ive got a self cleaning oven that still needs to be cleaned. most people then seem to agree its a gimick!
tony

[Terry_Burrows]

  trad will never die,its to proven over the years,no matter what you still will need it one way or another

[S_RICHARDSON]

That's all there is to it I think end of discussion the future of trad cleaning will always be at that's it!! 


Shaun R.

[macmac]

Trad will never die, it will always be needed. I'm wfp & trad & to be honest i love doing trad as much as wfp, i have some big accounts (very large, very old buildings) that will always have to be done trad as the glass is like paper! the lightest bit of pressure from a wfp brush would just push them through (trust me, been there). so to me there is no alternative in some situations. IMO you are at an advantage if you are both trad & wfp, this way you should never have to turn work down that is unsuitable for one method as you have both tools.

tony

[brett walker]

Trad will only die if you let it, i am quite happy wfp'ing upstairs leaded and georgian only.  I enjoy squeegying downstairs it gives you some variation to the job, i would personally find wfp'ing tops and bottoms a bit boring but i have had some customers think you can wfp insides.

Trad will never die same as wfp its another tool in the box

Brett

[D.Salkeld_Ltd]

Hi All,

First of all it's good to see us all talking sensibly about this subject.

I feel that, in time, totally traditional window cleaning with ladders will be hard to come by.

Because of H&S with ladders and the fact that, lets face it, most window cleaners would love to get rid of the ladders!! (I did!) Water Fed Pole will take over as the norm.
However window cleaners will always need a ladder, washer, squeegee, scrim and sill cloth in their tool kit!

David

[dwc]

I was asked to qoute a job on a b&b today, I initialy refused as the lady already has a cleaner using wfp....and we use trad.......

The lady said that the water used to clean the glass on the third floor window has been getting into the wooden sills and frames and causing them to swell and split.................including the frames and sill on the ones below.

As a water fed pole system is still relativley new, could this be a big problem if used over a long period of time?.

As for health and saftey.........we use extension poles just as well as ladders. Health and saftey can not ban the use of ladders.......only insist on saftey measures.

 

[dwc]

lol.....probably should...

But what if she was to take the guy to court and claim it was all the extra water used to clean the windows that caused the problem , or even aggravated it.

I know we are all covered by insurance.......but i would not like to go to court.

hmmmmmm?   

[poleman]

The lady said that the water used to clean the glass on the third floor window has been getting into the wooden sills and frames and causing them to swell and split.................including the frames and sill on the ones below.

So what happens when it rains  :

[dwc]

Thats why i added aggravated..........



I am not having a go at wfp,

I am still considering using one, but still looking at all the pros and cons.

[Sunshine Cleaning]

lol.....probably should...

But what if she was to take the guy to court and claim it was all the extra water used to clean the windows that caused the problem , or even aggravated it.

I know we are all covered by insurance.......but i would not like to go to court.

hmmmmmm?   

Is this EVER likely to happen. I would love to know if anyone has ever been taken to court over something so barmy.

[eddie d]

the lady is probably right ,the water may have accelerated the rotting process .but she should keep the frames maintained then there would be no problem .i clean wooden frames all the time with no rotting frames and there is no problem .i used to have people say that about soapy water .mmmmmmmmmmm

[dwc]

It gets you thinking.......................

Thank god for UPVC..........

I think i might turn her down, would not like to bring her sills down by catching them with a squeege after the pole slips..............

 

[Londoner]

The big part of the debate for me is a point that rarely seems to get mentioned. Its a lot less effort for me to clean a house WFP than to do it trad.

Some people equate that to being quicker or more profitable but in real terms it means not having to lug a big ladder around and keep climbing up and down it.

Thats why the future will be WFP despite the fact that its "not real widow cleaning" whatever that means. The fact is its easier with a pole and thats enough to bring about the change over time.

Although I am WFP I don't want everyone to go over because I like very much being different. People stop and talk to me about it.

[Neil Williams]

Exactly. And when people say that's not window cleaning try this one.
When you put your car through a car wash and you drive it away still dripping water, has your car been cleaned or not?

There will always be a place for trad cleaning, it's called insides and also for doing ground level windows.

Thats why the future will be WFP despite the fact that its "not real widow cleaning" whatever that means.

[dwc]

what happens to wfpolers when the is a big drought in your area and a hose pipe ban..........

been trad, i would buy a couple of 5lt bottles of mineral water....

[Neil Williams]

Mineral water would be of no use as it generally has a TDS reading of 500 plus, which is higher than tap water. Most of us use 0 TDS whilst some achieve results with 15 TDS.
As for droughts being a business it is general ok to carry on as these only apply to house holders.
Hope that helps

what happens to wfpolers when the is a big drought in your area and a hose pipe ban..........

been trad, i would buy a couple of 5lt bottles of mineral water....

[Terry_Burrows]

I still say it will never die, y because you still need to clean inside,there is no
other product on the market to take place of the squee gee,for internal or otherwise.wfp will not be the end of squee gees..

[dwc]

Just found more about drought orders...........

http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=33813.0