Can you get the wow factor with a bonnet?

« **on:** February 06, 2011, 10:51:06 am »

Hi, I have just joined this forum so hello. Don't like to start with a question but what the heck.
I have recently done my first nursing home using HWE. Next day it was seriousley worse than it was before I started so after speaking with Derek Bolton (who in my limited experience and not having been on them all, should be the ONLY person taking training courses) I invested in a bonnet cleaner. The home loved the results and wanted another area cleaning, however, after using ONLY the bonnet, I am not convinced that the results are that fantastic.certainly not mind blowing like HWE usually is. I assume that I am doing something wrong as I have very limited experience using bonnet cleaners,Any ideas?
Thanks.

« **Reply #1 on:** February 06, 2011, 11:08:08 am »

Kevin,

If you're in this business for any period of time you will learn that being a professional carpet cleaner you have to have the tools, equipment and knowledge to deal with a very wide range of carpets and fabrics that will be presented to you in a wide range of soil conditions, with their owners wanting them cleaned. Experience is the one tool you cannot buy or acquire any other way than through doing as much training as you can, again from a wide range of angles and apply the knowledge learned. It could well be that had you bonnetted over the carpet after HWE then the result may have been perfectly acceptable.

Simon

« **Reply #2 on:** February 06, 2011, 11:13:13 am »

you might find that following up with a bonnet after hwe gives you the best of both worlds, With tiles and impervious backed floorcoverings it is )ot possible to get ant airflow through the product itself so you can get stains wicking back after hwe.
I recently went over to texatherm and find that I am getting much better results with their system than with just conventional bonneting, The heard pad an the reacrion of the chemicals is pretty impressive, I tried it on snome of my carpets and even now (1 month later) the difference is still obvious.
It is all part of the learning curve you will get to know when you need to do something different to get the result you want.
Prespraying then heavy aggitation will also eliminate a lot of stains that may wick back.
Peter
www/carpetcleanercardiff.com

« **Reply #3 on:** February 06, 2011, 11:25:18 am »

You are correct, I did bonnet after HWE the first time. However I bonnet cleaned only the second time as the home is having an inspection on Monday(I guess this was the motivation for the job) and was going to run chairs/trollies over it almost immediatley so I did not want to over wet it as I would not have time to sort it out before the inspection.

« **Reply #4 on:** February 06, 2011, 11:37:21 am »

Update.
I have just rang the home, they are delighted ,phew.
Must be my paranoid side.

« **Reply #5 on:** February 06, 2011, 11:41:51 am »

I did a school staff room over xmas that was covered in brown coffee stains. Used one of Restormate's bonnet packages and some Ultra. Carpet came up a treat and bone dry after I finished!

« **Reply #6 on:** February 06, 2011, 11:52:52 am »

Quote from: Kevin Wheatley on February 06, 2011, 11:37:21 am

Update.
I have just rang the home, they are delighted ,phew.
Must be my paranoid side.

"Tis in the eye of the beholder" It's easy to think you could do a bit more to improve results but there is a point when you can go backwards. If you have done your best and your customer is happy, result!

« **Reply #7 on:** February 06, 2011, 12:52:17 pm »

Isn't it true though, that if you only Bonnet, a low profile carpet or tiles that are soiled bound, then the carpet or tiles are really still heavily soiled, even if their surface looks clean. Seems to me the only ethical way of cleaning low profile, soiled to this degree, is to HWE first then follow up with Bonnet.
With this in mind and most commercial jobs having at least a high percentage of areas of heavy soiling, shouldn't the HWE and Bonnet system be the normal way to go, rather than simply one or the other on its own.
Dave.

« **Reply #8 on:** February 06, 2011, 12:55:22 pm »

Dave,
I think you're bang on with your conclusion.

Simon

« **Reply #9 on:** February 06, 2011, 01:06:59 pm »

Dave i agree with you in the ideal world we would offer HWE/BONNET then return in 90 or 180 days depending on soiling to bonnet or encapsulation clean IN THE IDEAL WORLD HA HA

« **Reply #10 on:** February 06, 2011, 01:13:02 pm »

So Dave , for years Chem-dry have been cleaning unethically? since HWE and bonnet cleaning is the only ethical way.

I bonnet clean a car dealer every 4 weeks , they need top appearance constantly , and having used 2 local Truckmount operators they decided that bonnetting was best for them, the dealer principle hmself told me this..........

Of course HWE flushes out more dirt , but then of course a Mercedes is better than a Skoda, skoda are not dishonest though are they. VAG who make Skoda make far more profit than Daimler-benz , who make Mercedes....

Neither are unethical.

To answer the original question , yes you can get the wow factor with a bonnet , I do every day. And have done for 19 years next week. For a far smaller capital outlay and higher profit margins than any HWE set up could achieve.

PS. Have done a deal with a debtor on a TM , collecting it next week

« **Reply #11 on:** February 06, 2011, 01:18:14 pm »

Yeah, Steve I know what you mean, it's like anything else. The majority of commercial customers don't want to pay the amount that we as Carpet Cleaners require to do the job properly, so they end up with something less.
That's why there are so many horrible cheap Suites about, because most of the general public don't want to pay the price that quality workmanship demands.
Dave.

« **Reply #12 on:** February 06, 2011, 01:20:22 pm »

Just one point of view

http://carpet-cleaning-consumers-guide.blogspot.com/2010/10/is-power-of-machines-important-in.html

Respect

Ian harper

« **Reply #13 on:** February 06, 2011, 01:23:05 pm »

Dave what about all these 7k suites :

if i cut two fingers off i could still count on one hand how many i have cleaned

« **Reply #14 on:** February 06, 2011, 01:23:59 pm »

Steve

Ian is that your site mate?

« **Reply #15 on:** February 06, 2011, 01:29:16 pm »

Clinton

yes,

its another way for links both ways. its the old JP positioning marketing

Respect

Ian

« **Reply #16 on:** February 06, 2011, 01:44:26 pm »

Jason,
There are many meanings of the word 'Ethical'. I did not mean dishonest, I was using it to refer to a 'Standard' way of cleaning. I agree that low profile carpets can effectively maintained by regular Bonneting, if you read what I said you would see that I was referring to those carpets or tiles that had become bound up with soil through lack of maintenance.
Dave.

« **Reply #17 on:** February 06, 2011, 01:53:38 pm »

Thanks ian i will have a look at it all later mate

« **Reply #18 on:** February 06, 2011, 02:07:44 pm »

So..........thats a yes then ? I think? I'm glad thats cleared up!
Thanks.

« **Reply #19 on:** February 06, 2011, 03:29:08 pm »

Quote from: Kevin Wheatley on February 06, 2011, 02:07:44 pm

So..........thats a yes then ? I think? I'm glad thats cleared up!
Thanks.

Asimilar topic comes up every few weeks on here , I am a die hard bonneteer , though as has been said a TM/HWE is needed on some occasions. Most cannot justify/afford to invest in a the equipment to cover all eventualities.

Dave I understand.

« **Reply #20 on:** February 06, 2011, 04:39:04 pm »

Not sure about the Chem-dry comment as they are instructed and trained to HWE clean then bonnet finish.

Personaly always thought bonnet cleaning on a deep down dirty carpet was a bit of a con. Everyone I knew that did it only did it for one reason and it was not based on results. Having cleaned the same carpet after them the sludge in the bottom of my waste tank told it's own story.

Sure I'm going to get abuse for this and yes I know there are certain carpets that can be effectively cleaned using a bonnet but that's my experience in my area.

« **Reply #21 on:** February 06, 2011, 05:11:02 pm »

Yorky

I thought the same until I bought a Texatherm system which achieved at least as good a result as anything else and the latest O/P machines and products achieve even better results otherwise the cynical American T/M owners would not be buying them and raving about them.

O/P users could give exactly the same comment as yours but having achieved superior results with rotary systems than previous operaters had achieved with their carpet backing / underlay soaking T/M's.

« **Reply #22 on:** February 06, 2011, 05:31:13 pm »

It's not just the Op machine which I would love to buy but I do believe that chemical is 50% of the clean with OP.

Shaun

« **Reply #23 on:** February 06, 2011, 05:39:24 pm »

Kevin , if you want any tips on bonneting you know here I am . By the way got a new vac motor on warranty , dont worry its bound to stop working when someone lends it , typical.
Also you will find nursing are only in a mad rush to get carpets cleaned when they have an inspection coming up.
Mike

« **Reply #24 on:** February 06, 2011, 08:02:18 pm »

We bonnet 95% of the carpets we clean and this includes a lot of EOT mingers as well as the usual mix of commercials and domestics.
We are not a cheap alternative to HWE.
If you have the right equipment, training, chemicals and attitude there is no reason why you cannot achieve the required result.
We run 2 full time vans and have done for 11 years so we must be doing something right.
I get p****d off when carpet cleaners who have never bonneted or who buy a rotary and a few pads pass judgement on on a type of cleaning they know f***k all about.

Rant over

« **Reply #25 on:** February 06, 2011, 08:09:52 pm »

When we talk about soil load in a commercial carpet, the most important part is to remove as much of the dry soil as possible. Both systems will struggle without this main part of the cleaning pie. Once this is done using a bonnet to wipe the sticky soil out is a piece of cake. To vacuum properly with the right equipment does however take time and unfortunately time is money.

« **Reply #26 on:** February 06, 2011, 08:17:31 pm »

Quote from: fenman on February 06, 2011, 08:02:18 pm

We bonnet 95% of the carpets we clean and this includes a lot of EOT mingers as well as the usual mix of commercials and domestics.
We are not a cheap alternative to HWE.
If you have the right equipment, training, chemicals and attitude there is no reason why you cannot achieve the required result.
We run 2 full time vans and have done for 11 years so we must be doing something right.
I get p****d off when carpet cleaners who have never bonneted or who buy a rotary and a few pads pass judgement on on a type of cleaning they know f***k all about.

Rant over

People will pass judgement on what they see and just about all the bonnett cleaning I have seen has been sh#te. I'm sure you do a wonderfull job, the trouble is 95% of cleaners that bonnet clean in my area dont and do it because it's fast and cheap, that's just a fact.
I'm retired now so don't have any axe to bare. An example from last week, I got a call from one of the largest public schools in the city. I cleaned all their carpets a couple of years ago using a rotary machine and HWE with a bonnet finish They had been bonnet cleaned for the last three years and my tank was inches deep in mud. Got a call begging me to come back after they were again bonnett cleaned last year and they looked a mess. That was the norm in my time, It took me a week to do the job and they did it in two days.
The fact is the vast majority of cleaners that bonnett clean know f##k all about bonnett cleaning other than it's quick for them.

« **Reply #27 on:** February 06, 2011, 08:58:34 pm »

I'm new to bonneting and am becoming a big fan and would like to know if there are any fibre / construction types that should not be bonneted.

« **Reply #28 on:** February 06, 2011, 10:01:51 pm »

If you want to find out about bonnet cleaning particularly O/P'ing look in here !

CCSOP.COM

They've been bonneting for 40 years and evolving machines along the way.

« **Reply #29 on:** February 07, 2011, 09:01:27 am »

I have used my bonnet system a handful of times, what struck me was the colour of the water, no where near as much dirt in the water, i did three rooms and the one i HWE the water was filthy, so HWE then bonnet is best by far, i only bonnet when i have to.

« **Reply #30 on:** February 07, 2011, 09:35:13 am »

Quote from: james roffey on February 07, 2011, 09:01:27 am

I have used my bonnet system a handful of times, what struck me was the colour of the water, no where near as much dirt in the water, i did three rooms and the one i HWE the water was filthy, so HWE then bonnet is best by far, i only bonnet when i have to.

If you pre-vac , starting with an empty bag , then mix the contents of the bag once you have finished with water , you will have the same result, bonnetting is about DRY soils, not loose soils ,which are raked and vacced out before any pre spray hits the carpet.

« **Reply #31 on:** February 07, 2011, 03:31:11 pm »

Quote from: jasonl on February 07, 2011, 09:35:13 am

Quote from: james roffey on February 07, 2011, 09:01:27 am
I have used my bonnet system a handful of times, what struck me was the colour of the water, no where near as much dirt in the water, i did three rooms and the one i HWE the water was filthy, so HWE then bonnet is best by far, i only bonnet when i have to.

If you pre-vac , starting with an empty bag , then mix the contents of the bag once you have finished with water , you will have the same result, bonnetting is about DRY soils, not loose soils ,which are raked and vacced out before any pre spray hits the carpet.

Isn't that what you call a proper foundation.
As they say - "A jobs only as good as its foundations". This refers to any job as well as buildings.
Get the foundation right and the rest of the job is not only easier but of better quality, and its often true that the hidden foundation work takes longer than the finished article.
Dave.

« **Reply #32 on:** February 07, 2011, 04:01:30 pm »

Quote from: ianharper on February 06, 2011, 01:20:22 pm

Just one point of view

http://carpet-cleaning-consumers-guide.blogspot.com/2010/10/is-power-of-machines-important-in.html

Respect

Ian harper

You forgot to show the correct way that we T/M users clean carpets. I would have agitated the pre-spray with a CRB machine, then extracted with RX machine and finished off with a bonnet. You should also mention that one method is putting down only 1/2 litre of cleaning solution and the TM is putting down about 4-5 litre per minute
David

« **Reply #33 on:** February 07, 2011, 05:06:10 pm »

going back to the original question .what did you do to make it worse???how did you do it first time?

gary bristowclean

« **Reply #34 on:** February 08, 2011, 05:58:31 am »

Dave

With respect its not my video and the only reason its on my site is to give a view to the debate that powerful suction and heat are not the only factor is carpet cleaning as I am sure you know.

Respect

Ian Harper

« **Reply #35 on:** February 08, 2011, 10:50:15 am »

what did you do to make the carpet look worse the next day ??gary bristowclean

« **Reply #36 on:** February 08, 2011, 04:02:30 pm »

I HWE but it was walked on and had wheel chairs running over it whilst it was still wet.

« **Reply #37 on:** February 09, 2011, 04:21:36 pm »

Quote from: jasonl on February 07, 2011, 09:35:13 am

Quote from: james roffey on February 07, 2011, 09:01:27 am
I have used my bonnet system a handful of times, what struck me was the colour of the water, no where near as much dirt in the water, i did three rooms and the one i HWE the water was filthy, so HWE then bonnet is best by far, i only bonnet when i have to.

If you pre-vac , starting with an empty bag , then mix the contents of the bag once you have finished with water , you will have the same result, bonnetting is about DRY soils, not loose soils ,which are raked and vacced out before any pre spray hits the carpet.

Hi Jason,

You are obviously experienced with bonneting, you always highlight how important pre vaccing is first.
Quick question what vac do you use?? Is it a pile lifter or just regular vac?

Did a job last week and it was my second time bonneting and I HWE first, then bonneted using Prochem bonnett Buff.
Wasnt one bit happy with the job after, but have to admit it was fairly bad to start with.
Interesting thing was, that after I had bonneted the real bad parts this is after I had HWE them, it wicked right back after, and looked almost worse. Looked great when they were done, but terrible afterwards.
Still got paid but was very disappointed with the overall finish.

Bren

« **Reply #38 on:** February 09, 2011, 04:29:33 pm »

IF I was HWE then going to bonnet afterward, so long as the carpet had not dryed, then I would bonnet with dry pads. This would mean the excess moisture in the carpet, which could cause wick back, is lifted onto the pad. By using a bonnet cleaning fluid all you are doing is adding to the potential problem due to the fact you put more water on the carpet.

Did a commercial last night just using the bonnet and appropriate cleaning fluid - came up a treat.
Pre vacced using a Flexi 5 and a Kirby (2 of us)

« **Reply #39 on:** February 09, 2011, 04:52:00 pm »

I rake then pre vac using a sebo bs 36 or 46 depending on the area.

It just makes sense to me that whatever we use as a pre spray will dislodge the loose dirt first sending it to the bacl of the carpet where any method would find it hard to retrieve it.

That beater at Franklins in Sheffield sticks out most in my mind when I think of this, they put a rug that had been cleaned with a TM then bonnetted through it , a huge amount of dry soil came out of it.

« **Reply #40 on:** February 09, 2011, 06:30:39 pm »

I also bonnet after some hwe jobs but would not use any other solutions after mind..

I just use a clean dry bonnet as joe said to take any wick back moisture..