Low moisture/rotary clean

« **on:** December 31, 2011, 05:56:38 pm »

Hi All, what is the feeling among you over the LM method of carpet cleaning compared to HWE? For a layman like myself, it appears the vacuum, prespray, agitate/brush, hwe will generally give excellent results. I wonder how the vacuum, prespray, agitate/brush, heated rotary is in day to day comparison?
It seems a simpler process, the machine is less complicated and half the price but can it clean as thoroughly in day to day use?
{When I worked late in various offices in a previous life, I only ever saw the rotary machines in use on the carpets}
I was about to buy a new HWE machine but after speaking to a friend who has used both he recommended I got a Rotary and I am now in doubt. This CC mate said there is hardly any difference in the level of clean "in most cases" and it's much quicker.
Thanks for any advice and Happy New Year.

« **Reply #1 on:** December 31, 2011, 05:59:43 pm »

I agree with your mate

« **Reply #2 on:** December 31, 2011, 06:26:37 pm »

Thanks, so in most jobs are you using a rotary? What routine do you use?

« **Reply #3 on:** December 31, 2011, 06:32:21 pm »

It is all I use Tom....
and it is not Dry fusion either.

method
vac very well
prespray
agitate with either shampoo brush or stripey pad
bonnet off with damp microfibre pad

no problems
only had a couple not been able to clean this method.

« **Reply #4 on:** January 01, 2012, 02:51:31 pm »

Hi Guys

I've had some excellent results using my Dry 60 system which iis based on the old Terxatherm method, heated tank etc but using different chemicals.

The problem I have found is removing dirt, it is ok to have a cosmetically clean looking carpet but HWE just removes more soil, especially wiyth a TM.

For example I cleaned a bar area for a friend of a friend who was paranoid abbout 'dry'. He was really pleased with how it looked but I knew it wasn't clean so I persuaded him to let me fire up the TM.

The difference and colour of the water was staggering on what appeared a cleaninsh carpet.

Cheers

Doug

« **Reply #5 on:** January 01, 2012, 03:03:46 pm »

before Xmas i cleaned an office, I bonneted the offices and the hallways, We used the T/m on the stairs as they were really bad and i haven't found a good way to bonnet stairs, we also used the truckount of the first part of the hallway/landing about the size of a step because we needed to get around a steel pole that supported the Bannister

it was a 2 days job and the next day we had to set up the T/M and clean the rest of the hallways as the difference were the bonneted area met the H/W/E was massive.

this is the thing About LMC it does look cleaner until its compared to as area that is clean

« **Reply #6 on:** January 01, 2012, 08:32:22 pm »

Pre-qualify the work you have to do.

Whatever system you go with, pre-vacuum is very important, (imho).

If the carpet is loaded with soil, then I would HWE.

Over 90% of the time I encap carpets using a Cimex and a QUALITY ENCAPSULATION CLEANER that will fully crystallize when drying.

A Cimex is not a rotary.

On some others that I feel need that bit extra, I will follow up with a bonnet clean for that WOW factor.

The cleaning solution is most important in VLM methods, a true encap; product will crystallize to a fine powder that will not adhere to the carpet fibres and will be easily removed when the dry carpet is vacuumed.

If you use a mediocre product that does not fully crystallize, then this may well allow the slurry, (dirty moisture), to stick to the fibres and will not release when vacuumed, giving that still dirty look.

In my opinion, encap; products do give superior visual results on synthetic carpets.

With really filthy carpet, after pre-spray agitate with a rotary, (I use my Cimex), then HWE.

Use the "cleaning pie" to your advantage.

Even on some filthy carpets both natural and synthetic, after HWE I have gone over again with a bonnet, removed more soil, and got a far better visual result.

Some carpets just need that "two system" clean.

Sorry for the long post.

Shorty down under.

« **Reply #7 on:** January 01, 2012, 08:57:41 pm »

Thanks guys, I really appreciate you taking the time to post.

« **Reply #8 on:** January 04, 2012, 06:00:43 pm »

Only ever used Rotary Cleaning (DRY FUSION) and every job iv'e done have looked ok and customer happy although sometimes i think it would of been better with HWE but how would i know cause iv'e never tried i only have dry fusion.

« **Reply #9 on:** January 04, 2012, 07:22:21 pm »

I have written a comprehensive guide to this , if anyone wants a copy .

jason@dry-fresh.co.uk

« **Reply #10 on:** January 04, 2012, 07:29:55 pm »

hi Jason i wouldn't mind a copy mate cleandry@hotmail.co.uk Cheers Phil.

« **Reply #11 on:** January 04, 2012, 08:21:07 pm »

Cheers Jason, you have mail.

« **Reply #12 on:** January 04, 2012, 08:50:48 pm »

Sent to all who have mailed

« **Reply #13 on:** January 04, 2012, 08:56:34 pm »

Sorry to be a pain Jason could I have a copy pls

Paulsearle1405@googlemail.com

« **Reply #14 on:** January 04, 2012, 10:48:02 pm »

Shorty

Do you use encap solutions with hwe and what the drying time when used with your cimex

cheers Jim

« **Reply #15 on:** January 05, 2012, 02:00:40 am »

Hi Jason could I have a copy please
David mcbroom 1954@googlemail.com

« **Reply #16 on:** January 05, 2012, 04:38:33 pm »

Jason,
i dont want a copy , thank u

Geoff

« **Reply #17 on:** January 05, 2012, 04:43:43 pm »

Posts: 188

Re: low moisture/rotary clean
« Reply #14 on: Yesterday at 10:48:02 pm »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shorty

Do you use encap solutions with hwe and what the drying time when used with your cimex

cheers Jim

Jim there is no need to h/w/e when ising encap and the cimex, if however the soiling is really bad h/w/e with ur normal chems. i have on 1 occasion h/w/e them gone over with cimex after drying to eliminate numerous water marks and wick back problems .
Dring times for cimex arounf half hr .

Geoff

« **Reply #18 on:** January 10, 2012, 03:41:47 pm »

Geoff

Sorry if you think this is a silly question I ve never used encap so know little about it and was interested if it could be used in hwe, lm and vlm the same as a microsplitter.

Jim

« **Reply #19 on:** June 25, 2012, 05:57:11 pm »

Quote from: jasonl on January 04, 2012, 07:22:21 pm

I have written a comprehensive guide to this , if anyone wants a copy .

jason@dry-fresh.co.uk

HI JASON
COULD I POSSIBLY HAVE A COPY OF YOUR GUIDE?
THANKS,
steven.
cowflapkid@aol.com

« **Reply #20 on:** June 25, 2012, 08:35:42 pm »

Funny , someone dragged this to the top again , and I get another load of requests

« **Reply #21 on:** June 25, 2012, 08:59:05 pm »

We are working on a massive job at the moment and the first two days of it we spent trying different methods in order to save us time and money. We compared encap with the texatherm and hot water extraction with a truckount. One of the things on a large contract is not to be seen trying to cut corners as the last thing we want is to have to reset up equipment to redo random areas. The texa therm gave us the best result in appearance across the board on all the carpet types and soil conditions where it struggled was in the kitchen areas, stairs and very heavy soil areas. The encapped areas had to be redone as we were unhappy with the result and there was still a lot of stains in the flats. We have ended up trucking the majority of it as once the machine is set up to do the kitchen and stair areas you might as well do the rest of the flat with it anyway. The cleaning of the bonnets is also very time consuming when you have so many of them to do anyway.
As other people have said if you have nothing else to compare it to then you may think that it is an acceptable result.
I do a lot of bonneting for customers on a regular basis but I only sell them the idea of a maintenace clean as that is really all it is.
Peter
www.carpetcleanercardiff.com

« **Reply #22 on:** June 25, 2012, 09:06:55 pm »

I do it to make money for little outlay like everyone else does!!!!

« **Reply #23 on:** June 25, 2012, 09:26:21 pm »

Do you use bonnets when you Encap Peter?

« **Reply #24 on:** June 25, 2012, 09:28:50 pm »

Peter, if you can source some brushes you can lend my cimex cr48 give encapping a proper go (I have only got hard floor brushes for it).

« **Reply #25 on:** June 25, 2012, 10:04:07 pm »

Have to agree with Peter on his findings, although I've reduced the equipment quantity by using Jason's method, which can be quite a saving on backache if it's a 3rd floor or above flat and there's no lift.
Vacuum, bag of spotters, pads, rotary, kettle.
One person two trips up/down stairs and everything is to hand.

Quote from: peter maybury on June 25, 2012, 08:59:05 pm

We are working on a massive job at the moment and the first two days of it we spent trying different methods in order to save us time and money. We compared encap with the texatherm and hot water extraction with a truckount. One of the things on a large contract is not to be seen trying to cut corners as the last thing we want is to have to reset up equipment to redo random areas. The texa therm gave us the best result in appearance across the board on all the carpet types and soil conditions where it struggled was in the kitchen areas, stairs and very heavy soil areas. The encapped areas had to be redone as we were unhappy with the result and there was still a lot of stains in the flats. We have ended up trucking the majority of it as once the machine is set up to do the kitchen and stair areas you might as well do the rest of the flat with it anyway. The cleaning of the bonnets is also very time consuming when you have so many of them to do anyway.
As other people have said if you have nothing else to compare it to then you may think that it is an acceptable result.
I do a lot of bonneting for customers on a regular basis but I only sell them the idea of a maintenace clean as that is really all it is.
Peter
www.carpetcleanercardiff.com

« **Reply #26 on:** June 25, 2012, 11:00:52 pm »

Jason
have tried most things but when encapping we normally use white pads. I have quite a selection of different things including microfibre, chemdry, texatherm, charli pads and all the various scrubbing pads and brushes.
The majority of my work is heavily soiled areas and the areas that I am talking about on this job are soiled.
We have 3000 + bedrooms along with corridors stairs landings kitchens etc. It is just too bad for l/m.
I am always impressed with the textherm but even that has it limitations

Peter
www.carpetcleanercardiff.com

« **Reply #27 on:** June 26, 2012, 12:58:31 pm »

Hi Jason, can I have a copy please, much appreciated.
Simmplyclean@gmail.com ( there is meant to be two m's, not a typo )

Cheers,
Matt.

« **Reply #28 on:** June 26, 2012, 07:47:55 pm »

Ash
would like to try out the cimex will look out for pads. What are the size ?

Peter

www.carpetcleanercardiff.com

« **Reply #29 on:** June 26, 2012, 07:52:54 pm »

8" pads and drive discs needed for a CR48

« **Reply #30 on:** June 26, 2012, 07:59:55 pm »

Can I also have a copy lenpg@btinternet.com

« **Reply #31 on:** June 26, 2012, 08:20:56 pm »

is it white pads that you use Jason and is the cimex going to make a very noticable difference to using an ordinary rotary?
I find low moisture cleaning very frustrating. Ok we have some regular contracts that we use it, but getting a good result on dirty carpets is something that I would like to achieve.

Peter
www.carpetcleanercardiff.com

« **Reply #32 on:** June 27, 2012, 08:58:36 am »

White, red, tan, Cimex Encap, Fibre Plus, Fibre Plus Max can all be used on the cimex.

The main advantage the machine has is that its planetary action gives 5 times the passes a normal rotary would and from every direction.

« **Reply #33 on:** June 29, 2012, 08:31:54 pm »

Quote from: jim mca on January 04, 2012, 10:48:02 pm

Shorty

Do you use encap solutions with hwe and what the drying time when used with your cimex

cheers Jim

Sorry Jim, I only just noticed this post again.

IF I'm going to hwe after vlm (Cimex) agitation, I use a hwe solution that is meant to be extracted.

This solution I can either put through the Cimex tank, (which I prefer due to no atomisation), or pre-spray down.

If I only hwe, then it is only a hwe pre-spray solution.

Naturally, if I just use my Cimex of Sprayborg, then it's the encap solution.

The encap solution is a more costly than a hwe pre-spray, and if you are going to rinse/extract, then you are just washing dollars away by using an encap solution.

HWE pre-sprays are not meant to stay in the carpet, so I do not use them when the final clean is going to be with the Cimex or Sprayborg.

As I'm in the tropics, drying times can vary greatly due to climatic conditions.

Generally though, I get a two hour dry on the majority of my jobs.

I can shorten this dramatically by following up with a bonnet on the Sprayborg IF THE CUSTARD IS WILLING TO PAY.

I may encapsulate clean all day in a large office, with no air con; operating whilst it is pouring rain outside with humidity in the high 90's, but when the staff come in next morning, the carpet is dry, no odour, and no condensation on the windows.

In a previous life, if I tried to hwe extract this, I'd be in all sorts of strife.

Toys are King, by varying the toys and the pie, you not only clean better, but sleep well at night also.

Shorty.

« **Reply #34 on:** June 30, 2012, 11:55:06 am »

Have sent them to all who emailed me , 2 people said thanks , Just saying.

« **Reply #35 on:** June 30, 2012, 06:51:23 pm »

Sorry Jason Thanks! good reading appreciate you sharing.

MARK

« **Reply #36 on:** June 30, 2012, 07:45:07 pm »

Jason,
Apologies also, only just noticed it in my in box.

Simon

« **Reply #37 on:** June 30, 2012, 07:57:47 pm »

Low moisture is fine for maintenance, but honestly whats the problem with flushing the fibres total clean with lots of lovely water especially when drying times are 1-2 hours

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ixi3rxC1Ew&feature=youtu.be

« **Reply #38 on:** June 30, 2012, 08:00:45 pm »

https://twitter.com/Revita_Cleaning/status/219134343778549760/photo/1/large

« **Reply #39 on:** June 30, 2012, 08:03:01 pm »

p.s jason can i have a copy of your guide as well paul@revitaclean.com

« **Reply #40 on:** June 30, 2012, 08:05:48 pm »

Quote from: PaulKing on June 30, 2012, 07:57:47 pm

Low moisture is fine for maintenance, but honestly whats the problem with flushing the fibres total clean with lots of lovely water especially when drying times are 1-2 hours

What Paul means is why F about doing half a job when if you had the right equipment you could do a GREAT job.

« **Reply #41 on:** June 30, 2012, 10:12:41 pm »

Quote from: Simon Gerrard on June 30, 2012, 08:05:48 pm

Quote from: PaulKing on June 30, 2012, 07:57:47 pm
Low moisture is fine for maintenance, but honestly whats the problem with flushing the fibres total clean with lots of lovely water especially when drying times are 1-2 hours

What Paul means is why F about doing half a job when if you had the right equipment you could do a GREAT job.

What needs to be understood is that:

1: Many (most) carpet cleaners don't have or can't afford the "right equipment".

2: Many jobs in security conscious buildings, especially high-rise ones, do not have the facilities available to use a truck mount.

3: Portables, along with air movers and fans to dry the premises, as well as a lack of air conditioning plus sealed windows, can make for a very time consuming, and costly, job.

4: Many firms will not pay the money to accommodate the above, (granted, there are some that may, for a while), whereas they will happily pay for an "appearance clean" that can maintain their premises in a visually clean environment for their staff and clients, along with daily maintenance of their premises by contract cleaners.

5: Following on with the GFC, I have noticed a big swing to VLM or Encap; cleaning to save money.

To make more profit is first and foremost in the mindset of many business people, carpet cleaners included, has anyone ever noticed that when a new manager takes over a business, the first thing to get the chop is the cleaner.?? Make an impression, "look how much money I've just saved the company by getting a CHEAPER cleaner."

Maybe it's different where I come from, in a little town in the tropics.

Take care all.

Shorty.

« **Reply #42 on:** June 30, 2012, 10:24:56 pm »

There's always a way to use a truckmount, if you have one, in the same way there always a reason to make the excuse to use a portable machine. I know that 300 sq meters in three hours on my own this morning makes the truckmount the way to go for me.

As for buying kit it's either you of the equipment doing the bulk of the work, personally I'd rather the tm had the wear and tear than me.

« **Reply #43 on:** June 30, 2012, 11:38:02 pm »

Quote from: PaulKing on June 30, 2012, 10:24:56 pm

There's always a way to use a truckmount, if you have one, in the same way there always a reason to make the excuse to use a portable machine. I know that 300 sq meters in three hours on my own this morning makes the truckmount the way to go for me.

As for buying kit it's either you of the equipment doing the bulk of the work, personally I'd rather the tm had the wear and tear than me.

Sorry to disagree Paul, but I have a thirteen storey building where there are no windows that can be opened, the fire escape is alarmed and hoses cannot be put up the stairwell.

There are only two stairwells, both are emergency exits and cannot even be used by people going from one level to the next as an alarm sounds whenever a door is opened.

In the event of an emergency, these stairwells must be kept free of any equipment.

In this building, a truck-mount is out of the question, there are other high rise buildings where I can, and do, use the t/m.

I have a truck-mount bolted in my van, I also have portables, but the encap; process, in this instance, works better than the other ways.

There are also shopping malls that we clean where we are not able to use a t/m, given the right conditions the porty; is used for flushing, sometimes followed up with a bonnet to dry.

One must assess the situation including any workplace health and safety issues when taking into account how the carpet will be cleaned.

One size does not fit all sort of thing.

Great post and good to see other sides of the stories.

Shorty.

« **Reply #44 on:** June 30, 2012, 11:46:15 pm »

I agree with Paul, although we have LM and VLM facilities always on the van we rarely, if ever use them, not because there aren't the opportunities, but because we don't believe in cutting corners and that is what you do when you choose, or have no other choice because you dont have any other equipment, than to use a lesser system when you could have given your customer the best.

Simon

« **Reply #45 on:** July 01, 2012, 07:12:22 am »

If you have jobs with accesss like that, yes I see our point. And for maintaining it encapmcertainly is good, But I just don't seam to come across many like that.

« **Reply #46 on:** July 01, 2012, 12:29:19 pm »

Quote from: Simon Gerrard on June 30, 2012, 08:05:48 pm

Quote from: PaulKing on June 30, 2012, 07:57:47 pm
Low moisture is fine for maintenance, but honestly whats the problem with flushing the fibres total clean with lots of lovely water especially when drying times are 1-2 hours

What Paul means is why F about doing half a job when if you had the right equipment you could do a GREAT job.

TM=too big an investment for most , who cannot/will not get finance .

Even the very cheapest used van and TM capable of being usable is 5k

Brand new LM 2k

Of course the TM will do the job better/faster , but it is simply not feasible for many.

« **Reply #47 on:** July 01, 2012, 02:21:24 pm »

If you can't afford a TM stick to a portable.

Most people though choose to spend the money on a new van or a holiday or something like that. They don't see the value in a TM.

« **Reply #48 on:** July 01, 2012, 05:41:34 pm »

Must admit love my TM, but have been stunned by encap results on commercial so much so I've purchased an ex-demo Cimex from Jamie.

« **Reply #49 on:** July 02, 2012, 10:38:03 pm »

Hi Jason

Please could i have a copy of your guide.

Many thanks
Steve

Fortt cleaning services