[Steven Butler]

I know the usual sarcastic comments will come and the anti cleantalk comments BUT honestly i use M Power all the time and always get great results.....
Do prochem or any other brand do anything similar that is anywhere near as good?

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Stephen

I'm sure I have heard that Nemesis is the same product or very close.

As for Chemspec and Prochem they don't seem to think the colloid route is one they want to go down.

Cheers

Doug

[John Kelly]

Mpower is not unique. We sell the same stuff but ours is called BioClean. These type of products are manufactured from plant extracts. They are basically detergents made from plants. To the best of my knowledge nobody in the UK manufactures this type of product as the raw ingredients are unavailable economically.

[*Hector*]

I used to use M power all the time...

I now use Nemesis (last bit left) and Bio clean from John..

Both just as good in my opinion...

[mark shannon]

So which Bioclean or Nemesis is the same as M Power

[John Kelly]

The original product was called Nemesis "Super" now called Nemesis BioClean.

[Steve Gunn]

Nemesis bioclean is cheaper too

[neil 47]

fro what i can gather they are all colloid cleaners and don't vary a great deal only on price, I might be wrong

I have used Mpower for about 3 months now along side my usual pre sprays and have nearly finished a 10l tub .

I have used it on fabrics and carpets and it has performed well every time once i got used to the ratios .

It just seems to good to be true it clears odours and dilutes to 120/1 , its non toxic,no residue no enzymes .

I have a full tub off shockwave thats only been used to compare agaist mpower and it made no diffrence ,

So im sold on it .

I must add though I vac well before every job, and then pre spray and agitate with rotary then thinly pre spray again.

by the time ive done this and left it to dwell the carpets look clean.

 I then extract using a magma inline heater , but of late have been just using cold water and as long as its not a minger there is no difference in the finished carpet appearance .

So From a health point and customer usp it works all round for me , and will be using colloid cleaners for a long time

ps steve they seem to use it a lot more in the us for cleaning aircraft

[Steven Butler]

Ive done another job today where the pet dog has peed all over the living room. I use it same as Neil and after agitation it looked clean, after extracting the carpet looked new.
Its honestly never failed me.

[Steve Gunn]

It can be hit and miss on polyprops but works well on wool

[tim handley]

works for me as well..........................    although on real mingers i go down a different route...
 bioclean looks interesting, and  a tenner cheaper!!!!

[garry22]

It just seems to good to be true it clears odours and dilutes to 120/1 , its non toxic,no residue no enzymes .

I agree Neil. I could not get on with it at all until I tried it at the full dilution. As soon as I used it at 1: 120 instead of about 1: 80, the results were far better.

[Jamie Pearson]

Chemspecs closest equivalent would be One Clean Green.

Its not exactly the same base chemisty but it cleans in the same way as a colloidal.

[creighton foyle]

Jamie i thought you were on hols tip monday

[Jamie Pearson]

I am.

[creighton foyle]

just can't keep away can you ?.

[gwrightson]

I know the usual sarcastic comments will come and the anti cleantalk comments BUT honestly i use M Power all the time and always get great results.....
Do prochem or any other brand do anything similar that is anywhere near as good?

Steven.

it appears your very happy with m power?
Why the question?  Either you want to find a cheaper version? Why bother, for the sake of a few pence!!
         or                Your not really getting great results    and your looking for something better!!
         or                Your are what amounts to placement advertising!! 

Hmmmm I Wonder

Geoff.

[stuart_clark]

Well I tried m power, it has its uses but not many compared to traditional chemicals
its Chemspec all the way for me


stuart

[Steven Butler]

Geoff,
Is this a forum?....yep....
Why have i posted this.....??
Cus i can!

[CleanerCarpets]

careful - he will be asking you to swap some Bio Clean for his Rotary machine he can't use next 

[Steven Butler]

Your a proper b e l l end arent u !!!!
Said before..nowt good to say shhhhh
 

[Robin Ray]

What about the prochem natural range if they detergents from natural sources are they similar too?

[CleanerCarpets]

best go run and tell Nick again eh   

[creighton foyle]

Geoff,
Is this a forum?....yep....
Why have i posted this.....??
Cus i can!

Cus chalky,s paying you ? ( you asked the question ! )

[Tadgh O Shea]

Hi Steven, Colloidal micelles technology is one of this centuries most promising advances in environmental science, micelles based cleaning solutions are safe to use on any surface that's washable with water, a micelle is 1/80,000th times finer than a strand of human hair so they clean at the molecular level making this technology very safe and effective, when cleaning carpets,upholstery,leather, there is no need to use an acid rinse afterwards unlike many high alkaline based chemicals where the manufacturers recommend you need to use an acid rinse. if you google colloidal micelles technology you will find plenty of useful information. Regards Tadgh

[Mike Halliday]

I have a theory about micelles cleaners....

I think the reason they are so hit & miss with some people is because the low dilution rates make them very susceptible to be effected by water contaminants.

imagine if you had a bottle of cordial that was super strong and you needed a very little amount to make a drink if you used a dirty glass or water that was not clean it would effect the taste.

 I think it's the same with micelles, because you are using such a very small amount it can be adversely effective but hard water or container contaminants..... Rather than attacking the dirt the chemical attacks the dissolved solid in the water or the chemical left if the spray bottle.

Micelles don't know the difference betreen the carpet or the solution it works as it's sat in the sprayer.

[Richard Cole]

It just seems to good to be true it clears odours and dilutes to 120/1 , its non toxic,no residue no enzymes .

I agree Neil. I could not get on with it at all until I tried it at the full dilution. As soon as I used it at 1: 120 instead of about 1: 80, the results were far better.

Have you got the right way round Garry? surely 1:80 would be stronger than 1: 120, say in a typical 6lt sprayer at 1:80 it would be 75ml and at 1: 120 it would be 50ml

[Simon Gerrard]

M Power is unique in that it is the worst pre-spray I have ever used, especially after all the hype there was around it.
SPM on the other hand is superb across a wide range of soils, I find.

Simon

[*Hector*]

It just seems to good to be true it clears odours and dilutes to 120/1 , its non toxic,no residue no enzymes .

I agree Neil. I could not get on with it at all until I tried it at the full dilution. As soon as I used it at 1: 120 instead of about 1: 80, the results were far better.

Have you got the right way round Garry? surely 1:80 would be stronger than 1: 120, say in a typical 6lt sprayer at 1:80 it would be 75ml and at 1: 120 it would be 50ml

Yes Richard, Gary has got it right...

Logic says that the stronger the mix the better it will work...

However.....

With colloidals they need the water suspension to have room to vibrate and do the job, therefore the less water they have (stronger mix) the less room to move and do the work..

This is where a lot of people go wrong when they try Mpower or Bio Clean..
Stick to the instructions and it does work..... very well..... 

[david_green]

Interesting post Mike.
Do you think colloids would work better with pure water?

[stuart_clark]

I once used m power in a pub on blacktop ! It worked quite well in removing it, but I mixed it quite hot and at a ratio of about 60 to 1 and through the brush of my Chemstractor


Stuart

[garry22]

Have you got the right way round Garry? surely 1:80 would be stronger than 1: 120, say in a typical 6lt sprayer at 1:80 it would be 75ml and at 1: 120 it would be 50ml Smiley

Stronger but lESS effective (unless use on carpets that are already damp). As Hector said, the active ingredients need more room to move.

Imagine if you have twenty people in a small room and you tell them to run into each other at speed. They will have restricted movement. If you put the same amount into a gymnasium, they can race around at speed, really crashing into things. That's effectively, how the colloids work. using M-Power at 120 made a huge difference to me.

Simon, I take your point but it's horses for courses. I would imagine that for the work you do then SPM or even Shockwave would be a more appropriate Solutions product.

[tim handley]

suprised to hear mpower did a job on black top to be honest???  good on certain jobs, i use it a fair bit, but mingers need a bit more oomph in my (limited) experience......
one thing ive found m power good for is applying on certain organic stains which ive struggled with and leaving it do do the job. example  trying to clean a heavily urine stained mattress, i did my best, it looked much much better but still had some staining visible which i just couldnt shift. before leaving i misted m power all over it and left, taking five rugs with me to clean at home. three days later, returning the rugs, i went to have a look see at the mattress to make sure it had dried ok, and was suprised to see all remnants of the soiling were totally gone, it was spot on!!!!    learnt something that day................  quite intrested in the nemesis as you can buy it in 1l rather than stumping up for a 5l tub which aint cheap!!!, and at 1 to 120 dilution, a litre will do a fair few jobs...............

[Mike Halliday]

Interesting post Mike.
Do you think colloids would work better with pure water?

A clue to that answer would be what do the suppliers dilute the concentrate with. They will buy it as a super concentrate then dilute it to the solution we buy. If they dilute it with pure water then maybe if we did the same we might get a longer lasting solution or one that works better.

Another analogy of how micelles work and why weaker dilutions might be better.....

Imagine you wanted serving at a busy bar if you were alone you would push your way to the bar but if there was 100 of you it would be harder to get to the bar as you would be competing agrainst everyone else,  the same with micelles, they need to reach the dirt, having more of them just gets in each others way ...

[Paul Moss]

NAND in this bar Mike would micelles order larger or bitter 

[benny d]

M Power is unique in that it is the worst pre-spray I have ever used, especially after all the hype there was around it.
SPM on the other hand is superb across a wide range of soils, I find.

I totally agree with Simon. I have used SPM for 2 years and find it is a great pre-spray. I have used MPower, but never delighted with the results. I use the correct amount per litre, but seeing the water, I think that if I had used SPM there would be even more dirt.
I do use it on urine stains, vomit etc as I believe it helps. I do love Pre Spray Gold on "posher" carpets though.

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Guys

It seems M Power works well if you are prepared to work it in, I,e agitate so that it comes into contact with the dirt buy as a general pre-spray is perhaps too variable to be successful.

In other words the  big agitators get better results. ( Make of that what you will)

A bench mark I use is what the washing powder manufacturers use, after all they have R&D budgets a million times greater than cleaning suppliers.

Ask yourself why Persil don't have a  micelle washing powder.

Cheers

Doug

[Neil Jones]

Doug apparently it doesn't need agitation like a micro splitter.

I think m power is good on odours and blood. I also use it on wool but it has to be in great condition, more of a maintenance clean, the ones we all love.

[Robin Ray]

It seems a lot of people have tried really hard to eventually get it to work, when there are a lot of products out there which just work.

[Tadgh O Shea]

Since colloidal micelle cleaners differ from other cleaning compounds by functioning on a molecular level its important to keep an open mind and find out as much information as you can before you decide if this technology is right for you and the cleaning service you provide for your clients. These cleaning agents are both highly effective and non-toxic, they can be employed in countless settings, whether your objective is to clean,eliminate odors,degrease, micelle cleaners will get the job done all without negatively impacting the Environment.
colloidal micelles are used around the world in industries such as Agricultural,Horticulture,Boat and Marine,oil spill recovery,food service,facilities maintenance,institutional,hospitality,janitorial, and the list goes on, colloidal micelle cleaners are made from natural ingredients and will break down soils,urine,blood,vomit,odors, and much more, yet they are safe to use on any surface thats washable with water. These powerful tiny little workhorses have transformed cleaning and i would recommend anyone to contact a local janitorial supplier provided they have experience in micelles technology to find out the full facts.

[Shaun_Ashmore]

It was explained to me as, if you get a jar and fill it full of marbles right to the top and putting the lid on and shake it then marbles can't move anywhere BUT if you were to half fill the same jar with the same sized marbles then shake it then they would cascade around MEANING that the marbles are molecules which need to move around to break down the dirt.

I just found that I could not rely on these cleaners on a regular basis.

Shaun

[stuart_clark]

Plus the marbles would smash the Jar Shaun     

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Guys

Not sure if I like the marble analogy as a colloid is in continual motion, as I understand it Brownian motion and it is this which makes it effective.

Maybe I will relook in regard to deodorising.

Trouble is they were so heavily hyped and when I tried as usual the hype was nowhere near the performance.

Cheers

Doug

[stuart_clark]

Doug
you got it in one there mate ! The hype ! I remember when M Power 1st came out think 2006 ?
Everyone was saying it was the end to conventional detergents and this new wonder cleaning agent would replace everything we had used in the past ! Problem was it didn't
I still use it on occasion but its rare, I might have another go next week, but only because its been revamped in this thread, but I aint holding out much hope ! Lol

Stuart

[David Ware]

Doug
you got it in one there mate ! The hype ! I remember when M Power 1st came out think 2006 ?
Everyone was saying it was the end to conventional detergents and this new wonder cleaning agent would replace everything we had used in the past ! Problem was it didn't
I still use it on occasion but its rare, I might have another go next week, but only because its been revamped in this thread, but I aint holding out much hope ! Lol

Stuart

Micro splitters were before colloids and detergents were before micro splitters and each was the best cleaner on the planet. They all work bit like us, work harder some days more than others
David

[Carpet Dawg]

There used to be a couple of guys on here (Joe and Colin) that swore blind on the power of Mpower. They used it one everything and it was the best thing since slice bread. One got found out that he was actually employed by solutions and the other threw his toys out of the pram when people (ok, probably just me) accused him of being on commission because he mentioned Solutions and their products in EVERY POST he made!

oh i'm such a bitch 

[*Hector*]

meeeeeee---oowwwwwww

 

To be fair.. Colin left here as soon as he was offered the job at Solutions as he is a fair and honest guy..... But Joe as you say chucked his toys out of the pram.. 

[neil 47]

Ive known Colin for years and he used solutions products even before he worked there , he also even after leaving still recommended that I tried Mpower.

Mpowers/colliod cleaner  down side is that is you need to agitate well and get you dilution rates right .

I hwe a lounge yesterday and used shockwave and acid rinse as it was a friends house and was going to be let i sprayed the other room with mpower and bonneted , when i packed away i looked over both carpets and visually i couldn't see any difference both looked great .

with mpower i used oreck and sprayer so a lot easier and faster

[Simon Gerrard]

I tried M Power a few years ago now, only because of all the hype that was surrounding it and the 'micro-splitter' revolution at the time.
It is not that it doesn't work, it is that it works across a narrower range of soils than other products, so could never be considered your go to prespray. If you've go nothing to compare it to, I suppose  it's brilliant.

Simon

[neil 47]

your right simon it is a niche product , but that fits in well with what I do mainly domestic with 80/20 or polyprop carpets and dfs suites

[*Hector*]

Ive known Colin for years and he used solutions products even before he worked there , he also even after leaving still recommended that I tried Mpower.

When did Colin leave there Neil? and is he back carpet cleaning now, or fixing big mechanical budgies again?

[neil 47]

Hes a bt telecoms engineer now.

[*Hector*]

Please pass my regards on to him when you see him next.

Cheers
 

[Raymondo]

I had to ring solutions a year or 2 back about a part for a sprayer and spoke to Colin and we got on the subject of hot water vs cold water and whether hot water clean better.

He admitted to me that in his opinion hot water cleans better but I could not tell anyone   but now he has left I now can   .

[Ian Gourlay]

Ive known Colin for years and he used solutions products even before he worked there , he also even after leaving still recommended that I tried Mpower.

Mpowers/colliod cleaner  down side is that is you need to agitate well and get you dilution rates right .

I hwe a lounge yesterday and used shockwave and acid rinse as it was a friends house and was going to be let i sprayed the other room with mpower and bonneted , when i packed away i looked over both carpets and visually i couldn't see any difference both looked great .

with mpower i used oreck and sprayer so a lot easier and faster

Did you just bonnet other rooms, thought you did not like doing it on domestic? 

[neil 47]

Hi Ian

your right i usually hwe on domestics but this was a berber so i did it just to see the difference.


As humans we look at every thing each day with a conscious and unconscious memory. bit like driving a car your unconscious does most of the work   and you really dont think about how you do it .

Its the same with cc except we as carpet cleaners think about how we are doing it and all the workings (cleaning).

when we look at say a cream carpet the brain looks for symmetry if one area is darker (dirt) or there are spots and marks everywhere your brain dosent  like it , but get some solution spray it down then smooth out all those areas into one big plain area that looks exactly the same and the brain loves it .

Its the same in the world of beauty a symetrical face is always voted the most beautiful and a unsymmetrical ugly  .

Now for the carpets cleaner conscious mind we will all say but the dirts still there , customers see the unconscious we see the conscious part

so the point is make it all look the same ( mingers not included ), something to Dwell on for a Sunday

[mark_roberts]

When micro splitters came out they got great reviews and worked well because we all went out and bought host machines to agitate the carpet with.

Agitation is the key no matter what chem you use, if the carpet needs it.

Mark

[stuart_clark]

Not many people stay with Nick ! He has one hell of a turnover of staff nearly as bad as his turnover of customers ! Lol




Stuart

[david mitcham]

Time to delete this site so much bitching goes on ,think you must loose more customers than nick ever has!!!

[stuart_clark]

David
time for you to go back on CT and Lick bum

[Mike Halliday]

It's ok to have a dig at Nick but who else in our industry has done more to bring innovation to us carpet cleaners?

He tried to answer our thirst for power by searching out what he thought was the most powerful extractors available and brought them to the UK, would other suppliers have  started offering the more powerful extractors if it was not for the fact that whatever they sold had to compete with the scorpion.

And M-Power might not be everyone's cup of tea but it was the first offered to us, would we have the ones that followed if Nick had not had the instinct to search it out and make it available to us.

Perhaps we need more Nicks in our industry, he might have faltered in his business journey.... but who hasn't ?

[jim mca]

M power is unique in that it must be the most debated chemical on this forum

[garyhumphreys]

MP/bio clean is my go to upholstery cleaning product. Unless it's a minger, it usually does a great job.
Plenty of dwell time mind.

[Phil @ Extreme Clean]

Tried mpower and got on great with it but as said not every situation but think it's great for certain scenario. Nearly everyday I see comments about mpower ? Why not chat about spm cause most are probably using it and everyone who uses spm got nothing but good words to say about it so basically instead of slating what doesn't work for you why not big up what does and leave each to there own  

[john martin]

 Neither the machines or chemicals would have sold well on the basis of their own merits , they were sold by deliberate controlled hype on a censored forum  , that might have been a good business strategy , but i don't think its to be applauded industry wise .

[Mike Halliday]

 Neither the machines or chemicals would have sold well on the basis of their own merits , they were sold by deliberate controlled hype on a censored forum  , that might have been a good business strategy , but i don't think its to be applauded industry wise .

so the machines didn't sell in the USA? Cross American sold plenty of them before nick started bringing them across.

 and why does John Ks bioclean sell? its not had the same hype or backing of a censored forum, and as John said its the same stuff

[Phil @ Extreme Clean]

If that's how they sell then so what ? On are website we say why use us how we do it etc because that's are platform to sell. They sell there machines and chems on there platform and it down to whoever looks etc to decide whether to buy or not they don't advertise others as we don't advertise others on are website it's how we promote ourselves not others. I use this forum and the other and when using the other obviously they will give advice directed towards there chems etc and that's there right and if it helps someone out of a situation then sorted. Here you will get opinions of all kinds of chems etc because this is an open ended forum not for 1 brand etc. If prochem had a forum do you think they would push other products ? I don't  

[john martin]

  They sold relatively few in the USA for the size of the country , the ' corporation ' is just one man in a shed after all  , no upscale because they didnt sell well and were mostly slated on the US forums . 
The forum has also being used to heap negative propaganda on other machine manufacturers , cleaning concepts and available chemicals , usually with some unproven pseudoscience .
Chemical wise  ...  i dont doubt it has affected the industry in the UK,  if something is seen to sell it will be copied , but the reason for the popularity was still mostly hype .

[Hilton]

I have no idea how machines they sell,
Perhaps you could enlighten me..

What were their sales for say,
2010-11
2012-13
2013- 14

Be interesting to see if sales held up or increased in this period.You say they sold relatively 'few' relative to who?

[mark shannon]

A&M first brought Cross American extractors to the UK not Nick.

[CleanerCarpets]

A&M first brought Cross American extractors to the UK not Nick.

and didnt Alltec make a triple vac machine way before the Scorpion?

[Ian Gourlay]

I thought Alltec had bio Cleaner   Bio somthing we all went on a Green Cleaning day and thought we were going to get a Green Cleaning Site and then told we had to pay   this was befor the present management

[john martin]

I have no idea how machines they sell,
Perhaps you could enlighten me..

What were their sales for say,
2010-11
2012-13
2013- 14

Be interesting to see if sales held up or increased in this period.You say they sold relatively 'few' relative to who?

I have no idea how many are sold  ...
few relative to Mytee for eg

I am just saying that they would not have been able to sell many at all if honest critical debate and comparison of it and other machines was allowed on CT .  

[Shaun_Ashmore]

Steady on stuart!

Mpower and the likes are speciality products for a speciality crowd if marketed correctly and used correctly I'm sure they are great but there is no chemical metering or average soiling every situation is different my speciality is a full on deep and thorough clean I tell the customer this they ask me to come to their homes because of this and I can't offer a reliable service that I can trust with these products.

Over marketing is the main problem and people jumping on the 'I'm better than you' train because someone speaks more eloquently about a product getting people to follow, realistically you should make your own mind up about products and try as many out as you can and not be told it works as you can then believe the word not the clean.

Shaun

[Hilton]

I have no idea how machines they sell,
Perhaps you could enlighten me..

What were their sales for say,
2010-11
2012-13
2013- 14

Be interesting to see if sales held up or increased in this period.You say they sold relatively 'few' relative to who?

I have no idea how many are sold  ...
few relative to Mytee for eg

I am just saying that they would not have been able to sell many at all if honest critical debate and comparison of it and other machines was allowed on CT .  

I must have misunderstood your post then as I thought when you said they don't sell many you knew how many they did, never mind.

[Tadgh O Shea]

Steady on stuart!

Mpower and the likes are speciality products for a speciality crowd if marketed correctly and used correctly I'm sure they are great but there is no chemical metering or average soiling every situation is different my speciality is a full on deep and thorough clean I tell the customer this they ask me to come to their homes because of this and I can't offer a reliable service that I can trust with these products.

Over marketing is the main problem and people jumping on the 'I'm better than you' train because someone speaks more eloquently about a product getting people to follow, realistically you should make your own mind up about products and try as many out as you can and not be told it works as you can then believe the word not the clean.

Shaun

Good post Shaun, i would be of the same belief and have to check out a product or new technology for myself and test it on many different surfaces before i would trust the word of someone else, as in years gone by i took on faith the words of others only to have it come back to haunt me. for the record micelles technology has been available long before microsplitters and are totally different when it comes to performance and results.

[Steve Gunn]

I always end up returning to chemspec products after one too many hit and miss attempts with these type of products use what works for you. Yes by all means try them but how long do you keep trying to reinvent something when there are products out there that constantly give excellent results.

People are sucked into it dilutes down 160-1 thinking I'm going to save money but then end up having to do the same job twice using something else as the results were not satisfactory but it's each to their own.

[gwrightson]

What happened to the Allergen stop nick was selling ?

I do remember a lot of p**sed of c/c who paid good money to be part of a for want of a better word Franchise.

Is it still available?
Geoff

[stuart_clark]

I think I've used about thirty litres of the stuff over the last eight years or so, but its very hit and miss, it seems to work well on wool but is crap on manmade fibres, we all like to try new products from time to time as they appear on the market, but my main chem is Chemspec and always will be because I can guarantee good results nearly every time,





Stuart

[Ian Gourlay]

I have no idea how machines they sell,
Perhaps you could enlighten me..

What were their sales for say,
2010-11
2012-13
2013- 14

Be interesting to see if sales held up or increased in this period.You say they sold relatively 'few' relative to who?

I have no idea how many are sold  ...
few relative to Mytee for eg

I am just saying that they would not have been able to sell many at all if honest critical debate and comparison of it and other machines was allowed on CT .  

I must have misunderstood your post then as I thought when you said they don't sell many you knew how many they did, never mind.

I do not know the companies actual name but if it is Ltd you could find out total sales from www.companycheck.co.uk  you can get an idea of cash at bank assets  and liabities for free but would have to pay for full accounts , as how much people are paid  etc  distorts figure

[Hilton]

no its okay I am aware of that,

I was just wondering why someone would say they 'dont sell many' but do not have the evidence to back it up.

[john martin]

 Stumbled upon ...  this looks like good value for the colloid plant detergent stuff ?  £19.75 for 5liters .
http://www.bixecotech.co.uk/sol2000.html

Says 160-1 for carpet general  .
Looking at the suppliers site they seem to recommend stronger concentrations for carpet spotting , traffic lane etc  which would seem at odds with some of the recent explanations on dilution ... like '  it contains thousands of little policeman that need space to wave their truncheons '  is likely to be a pretty naive understanding .

The main supplier ' enviorsan ' states that it suppliers distributors like the above with 20x concentrate which they then dilute for sale . Wonder if thats the same supplier for the other uk sellers ... anyway similar im sure . But what a waste the whole dilution process is ... and adds to the carbon footprint of this so called eco product .  Why not just sell direct the 20x in one liters ... or even get the suppliers to sell is so . Putting in big cans and adding water is done purely for the middleman ?  or is they more perceived valve in a big can ?  no benefit for end user i can see ... only extra courier costs etc .
Probably the same story with other products also .

[Paul Moss]

John I see they also sell Nemisis

[Tadgh O Shea]

John I see they also sell Nemisis

Hi Paul, i see you are taking great interest in colloidal micelles technology, we discovered this technology 12 years ago and have never looked back, our safe cleaning solutions are manufactured by the worlds foremost producer of colloidal micelles technology and they have over 30 years knowledge and experience in producing one of this centuries most promising advances in environmental science, even though we are now looking at a new technology which is supposed to be safer and more effective as we are lead to believe but we will wait to see how all the testing goes, there are more and more janitorial suppliers introducing micelle technology into the UK and Ireland so there must be a reason for this. from my experience i would recommend anyone to be open minded and check out the many features and benefits of micelle technology.

[Paul Moss]

Tadgh, I take an interest in all cleaning technology and looked into these some years ago, believe it or not they have been going since the 50 s and where first developed for oil spilage out at sea.
I think it was Solution UK that started them off first in our industry with their m power.

I have never got great results with them and find them too hit and miss and too slow to work with.
I have been making my own formulas of prespray for some time now and find surfactants with a number of different boosters and colour enhancers to be the quickest for breaking down soil and stains with least effort 

[CleanerCarpets]

John - i found that site also but i cant see any mention of carpet - what page is it on?

[Tadgh O Shea]

Tadgh, I take an interest in all cleaning technology and looked into these some years ago, believe it or not they have been going since the 50 s and where first developed for oil spilage out at sea.
I think it was Solution UK that started them off first in our industry with their m power.

I have never got great results with them and find them too hit and miss and too slow to work with.
I have been making my own formulas of prespray for some time now and find surfactants with a number of different boosters and colour enhancers to be the quickest for breaking down soil and stains with least effort 

Hi Paul, yes you are right the technology was first developed for oil spill recovery and came to the market in the early 70's, i know Nick wont mind me saying i was promoting micelles before he was as he knows this, but from being involved in promoting this technology now for over 12 years there are now many different suppliers especially in the UK and i think people may be surprised with the technology today as like all technologies quality and performance improve over the years.

[john martin]

John - i found that site also but i cant see any mention of carpet - what page is it on?

It is mentioned on the main supplier / manufacturers site .

Here (  this is 10x concentration) sample .

http://www.envirosan.com/s2p14freestuffsamples.html

also mentioned here ...

http://www.envirosan.com/SOLUTION%202000%20Glossy.html

[Paul Moss]

Carpet cleaner dilute 1 to 1600  get a small syringe 

[Paul Moss]

Tadgh, I take an interest in all cleaning technology and looked into these some years ago, believe it or not they have been going since the 50 s and where first developed for oil spilage out at sea.
I think it was Solution UK that started them off first in our industry with their m power.

I have never got great results with them and find them too hit and miss and too slow to work with.
I have been making my own formulas of prespray for some time now and find surfactants with a number of different boosters and colour enhancers to be the quickest for breaking down soil and stains with least effort 

Hi Paul, yes you are right the technology was first developed for oil spill recovery and came to the market in the early 70's, i know Nick wont mind me saying i was promoting micelles before he was as he knows this, but from being involved in promoting this technology now for over 12 years there are now many different suppliers especially in the UK and i think people may be surprised with the technology today as like all technologies quality and performance improve over the years.

I remember Nick making a few trips over to Ireland about 10 years ago, it must of been you he went to see then. It was also Nick who introduced in the melimine sponges to me back then, did he also get them from you as I think it was a after an Irish trip he got them.

[Mike Halliday]

Years ago I used to tell a BS story about colliod cleaners being invented for the exon Valdez accident in Alaska, the detergent they charity agencies were using to clean the infected birds was too toxic and was killing more than they saved, so they needed a safer more environmentally safe cleaning agent .... So colliodal technology was adapted to solve the problem.

Now it's being touted that micelles cleaners were invented to deal with oil spillage, this is a bit close to the crap I made up, can someone put up a link to prove the oil spillage theory ?

Cos I think it's just one of these ideas that is said so much, by so many that it becomes 'true'

[Tadgh O Shea]

Tadgh, I take an interest in all cleaning technology and looked into these some years ago, believe it or not they have been going since the 50 s and where first developed for oil spilage out at sea.
I think it was Solution UK that started them off first in our industry with their m power.

I have never got great results with them and find them too hit and miss and too slow to work with.
I have been making my own formulas of prespray for some time now and find surfactants with a number of different boosters and colour enhancers to be the quickest for breaking down soil and stains with least effort 

Hi Paul, yes you are right the technology was first developed for oil spill recovery and came to the market in the early 70's, i know Nick wont mind me saying i was promoting micelles before he was as he knows this, but from being involved in promoting this technology now for over 12 years there are now many different suppliers especially in the UK and i think people may be surprised with the technology today as like all technologies quality and performance improve over the years.

I remember Nick making a few trips over to Ireland about 10 years ago, it must of been you he went to see then. It was also Nick who introduced in the melimine sponges to me back then, did he also get them from you as I think it was a after an Irish trip he got them.

Yes Paul you are on the ball, it would of been over 10 years ago when i was working with a different company.

[Tadgh O Shea]

Years ago I used to tell a BS story about colliod cleaners being invented for the exon Valdez accident in Alaska, the detergent they charity agencies were using to clean the infected birds was too toxic and was killing more than they saved, so they needed a safer more environmentally safe cleaning agent .... So colliodal technology was adapted to solve the problem.

Now it's being touted that micelles cleaners were invented to deal with oil spillage, this is a bit close to the crap I made up, can someone put up a link to prove the oil spillage theory ?

Cos I think it's just one of these ideas that is said so much, by so many that it becomes 'true'

Hi Mike, if you google    colloidal micelles technology you will find plenty of information on where it all began.

[Mike Halliday]

Just googled it lots of info,  this was a good site...

http://www.gemtek.com/products/safe-care/how-it-works

But I actually asked about the 'developed for oil spillage clean up' theory not how they work

[Tadgh O Shea]

Just googled it lots of info,  this was a good site...

http://www.gemtek.com/products/safe-care/how-it-works

But I actually asked about the 'developed for oil spillage clean up' theory not how they work

Hi Mike, colloid chemistry is one of the most promising scientific areas of our century, i am not trying to be smart here but if you keep searching the web you will find a wealth of information on the technology and also how it came to prominence in the early 70's for oil spill recovery.

[CleanerCarpets]

thanks for that John and looking at their dilution rates its a myth it has to be made up at a dilution of 160 to work - they mix it much stronger for other applications including spotting so it does work without having all that water to move in

[CleanerCarpets]

Mike - https://www.onepetro.org/conference-paper/API-68-261

first one i found, didnt read it all but looks like micelles is indeed used for oil recovery

[Paul Moss]

Tadgh, I take an interest in all cleaning technology and looked into these some years ago, believe it or not they have been going since the 50 s and where first developed for oil spilage out at sea.
I think it was Solution UK that started them off first in our industry with their m power.

I have never got great results with them and find them too hit and miss and too slow to work with.
I have been making my own formulas of prespray for some time now and find surfactants with a number of different boosters and colour enhancers to be the quickest for breaking down soil and stains with least effort 

Hi Paul, yes you are right the technology was first developed for oil spill recovery and came to the market in the early 70's, i know Nick wont mind me saying i was promoting micelles before he was as he knows this, but from being involved in promoting this technology now for over 12 years there are now many different suppliers especially in the UK and i think people may be surprised with the technology today as like all technologies quality and performance improve over the years.

I remember Nick making a few trips over to Ireland about 10 years ago, it must of been you he went to see then. It was also Nick who introduced in the melimine sponges to me back then, did he also get them from you as I think it was a after an Irish trip he got them.

Yes Paul you are on the ball, it would of been over 10 years ago when i was working with a different company.

[mark shannon]

Mike,
http://www.envirosan.com/oilspill.html
No idea if its BS as I wont pretend to understand a word.

[David Ware]

I put some neat M power on a diesel spill after a little accident that I had, brushed in and washed with hose pipe came up fine. Normally find it hit/miss on synthetics
David

[John Kelly]

Surprisingly they are not that effective at emulsifying hydrocarbons. They were used because they were deemed relatively safe to marine life. That premise is also under debate in some quarters.

[CleanerCarpets]

i get the impression you arent a fan John, is it not a great seller?

[John Kelly]

I think it is a brilliant product in the right situations. Works really well on wool or wool mix carpets. Find it exceptional on vomit and some urine stains. Ticks all the boxes for those who want to use a product which is classed as eco friendly and totally safe to use. A lot of customers use it if they have clients with allergies. It is also a very good general cleaner which improves the surface the more its used, ie concrete floors. Good stainless steel cleaner as well. I have one commercial cleaning contractor who use it on all the lifts in the buildings they maintain. In their words, its the best stuff they've ever used.

[David Ware]

Used Nemesis BioClean today for the first time, a lot thicker than Mpower and work very well. Wool rug and heavy soiled bedroom carpet
David

[jim mca]

John

What dilution for stainless steel

cheers

[John Kelly]

Around 1 -30. Also used I believe as a dressing on normal steel to prevent rusting.

[neil 47]

I don't get this a its a lot thicker so its better,

All last week I used Mpower and it worked great , this week its been mainly dynamall with a smattering of shockwave .

all have their place for different situations .

I love colloid cleaners but it dosen,t cut it all the time 

[David Ware]

No one said because its thicker its better. Have used Mpower and it works, like all cleaning products in the right situation they all work just someones choice.
David

[CleanerCarpets]

thats better John, bit more positivity on your products!

[john martin]

I don't get this a its a lot thicker so its better,

All last week I used Mpower and it worked great , this week its been mainly dynamall with a smattering of shockwave .

all have their place for different situations .

I love colloid cleaners but it dosen,t cut it all the time 

Certainly thicker is better from a value from money point of view  ... 
Do you know all the suppliers are diluting their concentrate at the same ratio ? 
Do you want to be paying heavily for water ? 
The link i posted on the last page showed a supplier selling and making a good profit on 5l of colloid juice for less than £20 . 
So do you really think WOC is trustworthy to be giving you £46 worth for 5l in terms of concentration ....  or Tadgh selling 5l of his Bioclean for 60+euro .
IF someone says JKs 5l is thicker ...  then their is a good chance it has a bit less water in it than some of the others .

[Mike Halliday]

Let's hope no one has the smart idea of putting a thickening agent it their solution, for all the carpet cleaners who think thicker equals stronger or better

Like is done with leather protector

[neil 47]

  a lot thicker than Mpower and work very well.

didnt say it but implied it

[Tadgh O Shea]

I don't get this a its a lot thicker so its better,

All last week I used Mpower and it worked great , this week its been mainly dynamall with a smattering of shockwave .

all have their place for different situations .

I love colloid cleaners but it dosen,t cut it all the time 

Certainly thicker is better from a value from money point of view  ... 
Do you know all the suppliers are diluting their concentrate at the same ratio ? 
Do you want to be paying heavily for water ? 
The link i posted on the last page showed a supplier selling and making a good profit on 5l of colloid juice for less than £20 . 
So do you really think WOC is trustworthy to be giving you £46 worth for 5l in terms of concentration ....  or Tadgh selling 5l of his Bioclean for 60+euro .
IF someone says JKs 5l is thicker ...  then their is a good chance it has a bit less water in it than some of the others .

Hi John, just for the record our 5 litre concentrate Bio-Kleen is available at trade price which is half that price as you are quoting our list price, of course we also have wholesale prices as well which are much lower again.     Regards  Tadgh

[john martin]

 i haven't seen you pricelist  ...  im quoting what you used to sell it online for .

http://www.adverts.ie/laundry-cleaning/bio-kleen-multi-surface-cleaner-5ltr-concentrate/1323907

[Paul Moss]

John can you email me pls mosscleaning@btinternet.com

[john martin]

John can you email me pls mosscleaning@btinternet.com

This John ?  sure   

[Tadgh O Shea]

John

What dilution for stainless steel

cheers

Hi Jim, as you probably know there are dozens of stainless steel polishes available on the market from many different suppliers, i can say from experience having tried most of them over the years they don't clean stainless steel but just leave a false finish on the surface, if you really want to clean stainless steel surfaces you won't find a more effective technology than colloid chemistry, they say if a surface is deemed to be clean there should be no SSRs (Streaks,Smears,Residues,) left behind on the just cleaned surface. When it comes to cleaning stainless steel surfaces the only technology that i know works properly is colloid chemistry used in combination with microcleaning pads and microfiber technology.  Regards Tadgh