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Sarah Sarill

  • Posts: 1537
Ex-employees in competition !!!
« on: August 01, 2005, 07:13:54 pm »
OH MY GOODNESS

Have any of you guys had this sticky situation recently ?.  An employee recently handed in his notice as he knew we were about to give him thechop for bad timekeeping (after 2 warnings I may add).

I have today heard he has gone to work for a new competitor locally.  Becaus he had worked for us for some time he had grown to know our client list, prices etc and I am a little concerned he will use this to his new employers advantage.

I was just about to put together a flyer to deliver to each residential client telling them that they may approach them and that he no longer works for us but now think this may trigger a reaction by him or the client themselves.

Whatabout commercial - after all that is where the big money is and most businesses wont refuse an offer to save money will they !!

ANy suggestions for wording ?  Have you overcome this problem ?    ???

PLEASE HELP AS  MY MIND IS RACING OVERTIME AT THE MOMENT  :P
Sarah

williamx

Re: Ex-employees in competition !!!
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2005, 07:35:40 pm »
Saril

Have a word with your competitor regarding your customers and the imformation that your ex employee has, if you ask them not go after your clients I'm sure that they will agree, if they won't agree to this then point out that when he leaves their employ and goes to another competitor or he decides to start up his own business then their work will also be going with him.


Re: Ex-employees in competition !!!
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2005, 07:43:03 pm »
Hi Saril,

In future, you may want to build a clause into your employee contracts, stipulating that they are no allowed to approach your clients for 18 months or they are not allowed to work in the same area and industry for 18 months. Try something along those lines, however, you may wish to seek legal advised for the wording.

If he does approach any of your clients especially commercial, warn them he is in breach of contract and that will put them off giving the work to them.

Hope this helps

Andrew


Sarah Sarill

  • Posts: 1537
Re: Ex-employees in competition !!!
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2005, 07:53:37 pm »
Thanks Andrew,

I have just added it into my contract of employment for the future (after the horse has bolted on this occassion though). 

Sarah

Sarah Sarill

  • Posts: 1537
Re: Ex-employees in competition !!!
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2005, 08:03:03 pm »
Williamx,

Thanks for your reply.

Knowing the competitor in question it is IMPOSSIBLE to hold an adult, reasonable conversation with him !!!  He is hell bent on making money quickly and at whatever cost.  His leaflets and canvassing tactics are a little immoral to say the least.  he is the type that will only listen when you retaliat with undercutting his clients (something I have never and will never resort to !).

It is unfortunate I cannot approach him like you suggested but fear it is a waste of time.

Any other suggestions greatly appreciated though.

Sarill
Sarah

williamx

Re: Ex-employees in competition !!!
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2005, 08:51:30 pm »
Saril

Have a word with your solicitor, try to find out whether your ex-employee is breaking the law by selling your customer information, ( I use the word selling because he will benefit by the wages he earns cleaning your clients).

If possible see if your solictor will write a letter to your competitor, stating that you will seek damages and compensation if they approach any of your clients with the information your ex-employee has given them.

If he is intent on making loads of money then by you playing hardball, you might make him think twice, it can cost loads to defend youself against these kinds of actions.

Sarah Sarill

  • Posts: 1537
Re: Ex-employees in competition !!!
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2005, 09:05:41 pm »
Williamx.

That suggestion sounds perfect for the individual concerned - I will do it in the morning.

Isn't it sad though, that by trying to earn a decent, honest crust we have to put up with this CR--P and expense !

This sites help has again been most appreciated by us Newbies. Thanx.

Sarill

Sarah

Re: Ex-employees in competition !!!
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2005, 09:20:02 pm »
Williamx.
This sites help has again been most appreciated by us Newbies. Thanx.

You may be new to this site, but you don't sound like a 'newbie' to window cleaning.  I'm old on this site, but a 'newbie' to window cleaning.  Don't let my moderator status (if there is any) fool you.

Tell us about your company?  How has the WAHD affected you?

Marc's on the Glass, LLC

  • Posts: 134
Re: Ex-employees in competition !!!
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2005, 09:29:42 pm »
Sarill,

I don't think you have to worry about losing commercial accounts.  Most retailers want to keep a reliable, quality cleaner.  If they are satisfied with you, they most likely won't change.

Additionally, how much do you charge with your commercial accounts?  Do you think many of them will switch because of a small decrease in a charge?

Also, without slandering, you could inform all of your clients that your (ex-employee's name) no longer works for you, so if they see him, be aware that he is not representing you.  You don't have to reveal very much, but it puts up a red flag in your client's mind.

Marc

AuRavelling79

  • Posts: 23895
Re: Ex-employees in competition !!!
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2005, 09:33:06 pm »
Sarill - if you're giving a good service I wouldn't worry too much. If he can't get out of bed for you then why will he for someone else?

What sort of rapport did your employee have with the customers? If he was going it alone then I might worry a little, but the new employer is going to need a profit from him so I don't see how you'll suffer unless you paid him a pittance and creamed up the prices. (Which I'm sure you haven't!)
It's a game of three halves!

thewindowcleaner1

  • Posts: 779
Re: Ex-employees in competition !!!
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2005, 10:40:00 pm »
Just dug out these two tit bits I'm sure you could use some parts to suit your needs? should make them think twice,


The Data Protection Act 1998
A Summary

Key Points to Note
    Personal data must be obtained fairly and lawfully. The data subject should be informed of who the data controller is (the institution); who the data controller’s representative is; the purpose or purposes for which the data are intended to be processed; and to whom the data will be disclosed. Personal data processing may only take place if specific conditions have been met- these include the subject having given consent or the processing being necessary for the legitimate interests of the data controller. Additional conditions must be satisfied for the processing of sensitive personal data, that relating to ethnicity, political opinion, religion, trade union membership, health, sexuality or criminal record of the data subject
    The new Act covers personal data in both electronic form and manual form (e.g. paper files, card indices) if the data are held in a relevant, structured filing system
    Personal data processing must be in accordance with the purposes stated
   
    Appropriate security measures must be taken against unlawful or unauthorised processing of personal data and against accidental loss of, or damage to, personal data. These include both technical measures, e.g. data encryption and the regular backing-up of data files and organisational measures, e.g. staff data protection training
Data Subject Rights
The Act gives significant rights to individuals in respect of personal data held about them by data controllers. These include the rights:
    To make a subject access request- an individual is entitled to be supplied with a copy of all personal data held.
    To require the data controller to ensure that no significant decisions that affect them are based solely upon an automated decision-taking process
    To prevent processing likely to cause damage or distress
    To prevent processing for the purposes of direct marketing
    To take action for compensation if they suffer damage by any contravention of the Act by the data controller
    To take action to rectify, block, erase or destroy inaccurate data, and
    To request the Data Protection Commissioner to make an assessment as to whether any provision of the Act has been contravened


European Communities (Data Protection) Regulations, 2001
A Summary of the New Data Protection Rules 

 
The European Communities (Data Protection) Regulations, 2001 were signed by the Minister for Justice, Equality & Law Reform on 19 December 2001, and will bring into force some new data protection rules with effect from 1 April 2002.  The Regulations give effect to some parts of the 1995 EU Data Protection Directive. The main points of the new rules are briefly summarised below.
o   The new rules clarify the level of security measures that organisations must have in place to protect personal data.  Generally speaking, organisations must take all necessary and reasonable steps, having regard to the state of current technology, and to the sensitivity of the personal data in question.

o   If you retain the services of an agent to process personal data on your behalf – a ‘data processor’ – then you must use a contract in writing (or equivalent form) which deals adequately with issues of security, confidentiality and other data protection matters


Comment:  Organisations dealing with personal data of a private or sensitive nature – such as people’s medical files, personnel files, or private telecommunications – naturally need to have very robust standards of security in place.  Organisations that hold personal data with a lower privacy value – such as name, address, or membership of a local drama group – do not need to go to such great lengths, but must still have reasonable security measures in place

Comment:  There is no point in preparing an elaborate security scheme, which works well in theory, if the measures are not applied in practice. The Regulations therefore require data controllers and data processors to take all reasonable steps (i) to develop an appropriate level of staff awareness, and (ii) to ensure compliance by staff with the security measures.  This requirement applies for employees, and for other persons at the place of work.

The Regulations should be seen as underlining the importance of security measures, particularly in an environment where more and more personal data is being transmitted over the internet, and via telecommunications and other networks
The secret is not doing as you like but liking what you do
www.thewindowcleaner.biz

Jon T.C.

  • Posts: 592
Re: Ex-employees in competition !!!
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2005, 11:13:47 pm »
I think you panicking un-necessarily.If the service you are giving your customers is good, there is no need for you to panic.Some customers may go with him if he had a good rapport with them.I bet you it will be only be a very small proportion at worst.Seen this situation many times, if they have no loyalty to you, then they will have probably gone with someonelse sooner or later.I know it's a pain, but just roll with it and look out for new customers to replace them.

Failing all the above advice, go round and hit him ;D
Elite Cleaning Solutions

TERRY AB

  • Posts: 167
Re: Ex-employees in competition !!!
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2005, 11:25:26 pm »
I also think you are worrying too much, if you have been reliable in the past and done a good job, the loss will be minimal. Had a similiar situation in the past. Dont worry too much.
As for a clause in the employees contract  good idea to scare (deterant)them a bit, but im, pretty sure it will be almost impossible in court to forbid him dong it; if you try to forbid an ex employee to work (through a contract) he might thern be able to claim against you for comensation as you are making it impossible for him to earn a living, according to european law you would have to compensate him or carry on paying his wages as long as there is a work ban is in force.

Marc's on the Glass, LLC

  • Posts: 134
Re: Ex-employees in competition !!!
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2005, 04:35:38 am »
Do you owe your ex-employee any last paychecks?

The Bear

Re: Ex-employees in competition !!!
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2005, 06:56:16 am »
OH MY GOODNESS

Have any of you guys had this sticky situation recently ?.  An employee recently handed in his notice as he knew we were about to give him thechop for bad timekeeping (after 2 warnings I may add).

I have today heard he has gone to work for a new competitor locally.  Becaus he had worked for us for some time he had grown to know our client list, prices etc and I am a little concerned he will use this to his new employers advantage.

I was just about to put together a flyer to deliver to each residential client telling them that they may approach them and that he no longer works for us but now think this may trigger a reaction by him or the client themselves.

Whatabout commercial - after all that is where the big money is and most businesses wont refuse an offer to save money will they !!

ANy suggestions for wording ?  Have you overcome this problem ?    ???

PLEASE HELP AS  MY MIND IS RACING OVERTIME AT THE MOMENT  :P

Be cautious, it sounds as if you expect him to sell you out, has he yet?

If you pre-empt this you are going to be the one getting a letter from his lawyer.

Wait until he has actually aproched your customer base first.

Even then be careful, if they approch him then you can do nothing.

Rather than sending out a flyer naming this man, and identifying him as a threat, send one out naming your staff and add a photo.

Get all your branded workwear off him, or if you dont have any, invest in a uniform.

Do you really want to play hardball?

Trust in yourself and your service.

Sarah Sarill

  • Posts: 1537
Re: Ex-employees in competition !!!
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2005, 08:44:08 am »
Oh my Goodness stop this BRILLIANT advice - theres just too much to take in !!!

Really guys you have such constructive ideas.  Firstly I'm gonna ring my solicitor to get him to give me some wording for any new contracts of employment I give out  (hoping not to have to employ now as I have just bought a 300 Gall RO and trolley).

Secondly I will ask him how I could possibly word a flyer covering the situation, without letting my clients know there is this potential situation and without making me liable for something like defimation of character from him or his new employer.  I will then deliver them and leave it there.  I plan to include this in a company newsletter when I will also tell my clients about my move into WFP.  AT the same time

I will, of course share his suggestions with you all just in case you ever have this situation (not that you ever will you all sound far to switched on for that).

We all live and learn though dont we - I have been window cleaning since 1998 and never had this one before !!!

Regards (and forgive the bad spelling - I cant do it without spell check !!!!!)

Sarill  ;D
Sarah

gaza

  • Posts: 1642
Re: Ex-employees in competition !!!
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2005, 08:49:45 am »
I use to work for American delivery firm and they had a clause in their employment  contract,that you wernt allowed to approach any of their customers for quite along period after leaving their employment {carnt remember how long now} been to sleep since leaving them, need re programing ;D
  Im sure a massive company wouldnt just use scare tactics,it would have some legal standing.
 gaza
IM AT THAT AGE MY BACK GOES OUT MORE THAN I DO

Re: Ex-employees in competition !!!
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2005, 09:12:58 am »
Hi again Saril,

I have pulled out clauses for you to add into your employment contracts. This will stop any future employee from approaching your clients or other members off staff and forming their own company for 18 months.


Restraint Clauses:

1) YOU SHALL NOT AT ANY TIME DURING YOUR EMPLOYMENT OR WITHIN ONE YEAR OF ITS TERMINATION, HOWEVERSO ARISING, EITHER ON YOUR OWN ACCOUNT OR FOR ANY OTHER PERSON, FIRM OR COMPANY, SOLICIT OR ENDEAVOUR TO ENTICE AWAY FROM THE COMPANY/ BUSINESS ANY EMPLOYEE OF THE COMPANY/ BUSINESS OR ANY OF ITS SUBSIDIARIES KNOWN TO YOU THROUGH YOUR WORK.

2) YOU SHALL NOT AT ANY TIME DURING YOUR EMPLOYMENT OR WITHIN 18 MONTHS OF ITS TERMINATION, HOWEVERSO ARISING, EITHER ON YOUR OWN ACCOUNT OR FOR ANY OTHER PERSON, FIRM OR COMPANY. SOLICIT OR ENDEVOUR TO ENTICE AWAY FROM THE COMPANY/ BUSINESS ANY PERSON, FIRM OR COMPANY KNOWN TO YOU THROUGH YOUR WORK, WHO AT ANYTIME DURING THE PERIOD OF ONE YEAR PRECEDING THE DATE OF SUCH TERMINATION OR AT A DATE SUCH TERMINATION WAS A CUSTOMER OF OR WAS IN THE HABIT OF DEALING WITH THE COMPANY/ BUSINESS OR ANY OF ITS SUBSIDIARY ASSOCIATED COMPANIES.

3) YOU SHALL NOT AT ANY TIME WITHIN 18 MONTHS OF THE TERMINATION OF YOUR EMPLOYMENT, HOWEVERSO ARISING, EITHER ALONE OR IN PARTNERSHIP OR THROUGH A LIMITED COMPANY OR AS AN EMPLOYEE OR SERVANT DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY ENGAGED IN OR OPERATE A BUSINESS OF A DOMESTIC/ COMMERCIAL WINDOW CLEANING COMPANY AND DIRECTLY COMPETING WITH THE BUSINESS OF THE COMPANY/ BUSINESS OR ANY OF ITS SUBSIDIARIES (AS CONSTITUTED AT THE DATE OF TERMINATION) WITHIN A RADIUS OF 40 MILES OF THE COMPANY/ BUSINESS.



With this added into your employee contracts, this will offer good protection. Once the employee has read the contract and signed it, he is then bound by the conditions within the contract. The 40 mile radius is acceptable under law.

hope this helps


Andrew

baldeagle

  • Posts: 251
Re: Ex-employees in competition !!!
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2005, 12:23:51 pm »
Andrew,

You might be in trouble with your clause 3.

I stand to be corrected, but if you prevent anyone from earning a living wage, you are in deep trouble with European Law, I think.

Baldeagle in Staffordshire
"John the Window Cleaner."
A business founded during the Elizabethan age.

Re: Ex-employees in competition !!!
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2005, 01:14:42 pm »
Hi Baldeagle,

The clauses where written by a solicitor some three years ago. I was also dubious about clause 3; however, I was told that the 40 mile radius was acceptable under the current law. However, it was also explained, that it also depended on the region you in and the availability of transport. An example was given, if you where based on the isle of white, this would not hold up, due to the size of the island.

If in doubt, reduce the area to 10 miles, that should cover most peoples rounds and it is more than acceptable to travel 30 miles a day to work.

Everyone is welcome to this information and if in serious doubt, run it by your solicitors for peace of mind.

Andrew