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Steve_c

Re: WFP BAN! (2010)
« Reply #60 on: March 25, 2010, 08:00:29 pm »
 DEFRA Proposes Changes to Non-Essential Use of Water Restrictions
[April 2007]

The 2004-2006 drought in South East England served to focus attention on the outdated nature of the 1991 Drought Direction, which sets out the circumstances under which water companies may apply for a drought order, and also the restrictions that they are able to impose.

The consultation document sets out proposed changes to current legislation and aims to gather information from interested parties on the suitability of those changes.

The British Window Cleaning Academy is actively involved in this consultation, and recognizes that the proposed changes may have an impact on the way window cleaners work in drought conditions.

However, it must be emphasized that it is not yet clear how the proposed changes would (if at all) affect window cleaners, as the proposal document does not specifically discuss the cleaning of windows by tradesmen, but only generically (ie the cleaning of windows by the householder)

The definition of window cleaning "using sprinkler, hosepipe or similar apparatus" is also the subject of some dispute, especially as to whether this definition extends to the use of water-fed poles or not.

Pure Water - A Manufactured Product
The proposal document makes clear that any restrictions apply only to water that has not been "used". Although no definition of this term is given, some useful guidance is provided;

 "Our proposals apply only to water supplied by water companies under their statutory supply duties. These supply duties are directly linked to quality criteria. The filling of a receptacle by hosepipe from the mains supply, with no intervening use, for a proscribed purpose would be a breach of any restrictions in force. However, once water supplied by a water company has been used then that water is no longer of a kind that was originally supplied"

Section 3.3.3.1 (italics ours)

According to this guidance, restrictions both present and future do not apply to water that is "no longer of a kind that was originally supplied" .It is obvious that once water has passed through the treatment processes which enable it to be used for window cleaning, it too is "no longer of a kind that was originally supplied"

Of course, in order to make use of water for window cleaning with a water-fed pole system, a number of processes are necessary to alter the quality of the water. In fact, the production of pure water for window cleaning is in itself a "use" and in many other industries, purified water is considered a manufactured product, with mains water being simply a raw material. Since water purification is not subject to any restriction, this would be an effective defence if one were needed.

"Hosepipe Ban" to be replaced by "Discretionary Use Ban"
At present, water companies can, at their discretion, impose 'hosepipe bans' in an effort to reduce water consumption by the public. These hosepipe bans are limited in their scope by section 76 of The Water Industry Act 1991.

Put simply, by imposing a hosepipe ban water companies can restrict certain uses of water drawn from their supply network, including washing of private cars, the watering of private gardens etc. Hosepipe bans do not have any impact on window cleaning by method, including the domestic sector. This means, for example, that during a hosepipe ban a householder would not be allowed to wash their car using a hosepipe, but would be allowed to wash their windows
with a hosepipe.

There are several proposed changes to this structure which involve the replacing the 'hosepipe ban' with a more consistent 'discretionary use ban'. Under the proposal this would be much broader in its scope and restrict a wider range of activities than the 'hosepipe ban'.

Section 4.1.4 (v) of the proposal document makes clear that under the new discretionary use ban that, just like the washing of private cars, within the domestic sector window cleaning using a hosepipe will be restricted. By limiting the discretionary use ban to the domestic sector (ie use by householders, not window cleaners) this change would have no impact on the way window cleaners work. This is because window cleaners, whatever type of properties they clean, operate in the commercial, and not the domestic sector.


 


Cladding Restoration Course Added to BWCA Syllabus
[Feb 2007]
The cleaning of cladding and fascias is a common add-on to a window cleaner's business. So, in February 2007 The BWCA syllabus was widened to include another course.

CCLAD - Cladding and Glass Restoration Using Ambruch Products focuses on restoring and providing a weather resistance coating to:

Anodised Aluminium
Powder Coated Aluminium
Metallic Powder Costed Aluminium
Stainless Steel
Plastisol/uPVC Coverings

For more information on this new course, please contact The BWCA on 0845 22 66 034 or use our info request form

Sapphire Window Cleaning

  • Posts: 2942
Re: WFP BAN! (2010)
« Reply #61 on: March 25, 2010, 08:15:03 pm »
Near as dam it what I said earlier in the thread.
Amen to that, lets hope that has put it to bed now.

Thanks Steve C





Matt
Reaching parts traditional window cleaners can not reach.

tacky

  • Posts: 1575
Re: WFP BAN! (2010)
« Reply #62 on: March 25, 2010, 09:09:06 pm »
so u dont flush the toilet . u pee in the backyard . com on u doom n gloom guys .we live in britain not australia ,after 3 weeks off in the snow .we can manage 3 weeks off in the sun .

Sapphire Window Cleaning

  • Posts: 2942
Re: WFP BAN! (2010)
« Reply #63 on: March 25, 2010, 09:13:29 pm »
Most office that I have cleaned use bottled water anyway.
If any of your customers ask about the amount of water we use, just reply the water we use isn't fit for human consumtion. which it isn't unless you use food grade resin.

50litres on one house?
on the average 3 bed semi I use 20ltrs maximum.




Matt
Reaching parts traditional window cleaners can not reach.

chopsie

  • Posts: 1736
Re: WFP BAN! (2010)
« Reply #64 on: March 25, 2010, 09:20:37 pm »
bet i use 50 litres on a house  :-[
chopsie

Terry_Burrows

  • Posts: 1643
Re: WFP BAN! (2010)
« Reply #65 on: March 25, 2010, 09:30:59 pm »
 ;D back to squeegees then ;D ;D one bucket only please ;D o  ::)and catch the drips on the applicater  ;D
WWW.FASTESTWINDOWCLEANER.CO.UK
GUINNESS WORLD RECORD HOLDER
BURNING RUBBER FASTER!
NATIONAL FEDERATION OF MASTER WINDOW CLEANERS.

Frankybadboy

  • Posts: 9022
Re: WFP BAN! (2010)
« Reply #66 on: March 25, 2010, 09:32:21 pm »
There wont be a hose-pipe anyway, you need a dry winter for starters. And we havent had that.

A dry winter followed by a heatwave. We might get the heatwave but we all know we didnt get a dry winter.

Pointless.
mate just noticed you in bath.how far out do you cover.and what parts.

email me if you like

rich-frank@hotmail.co.uk

i get a few calls for bath area,

Frankybadboy

  • Posts: 9022
Re: WFP BAN! (2010)
« Reply #67 on: March 25, 2010, 09:38:00 pm »
bet i use 50 litres on a house  :-[
thats cause you trow buckets at the house

Sapphire Window Cleaning

  • Posts: 2942
Re: WFP BAN! (2010)
« Reply #68 on: March 25, 2010, 09:41:50 pm »
;D back to squeegees then ;D ;D one bucket only please ;D o  ::)and catch the drips on the applicater  ;D


Terry I use to do this on the internal windows lol
 ;D ;D ;D



Matt
Reaching parts traditional window cleaners can not reach.

Mike_G

  • Posts: 1500
Re: WFP BAN! (2010)
« Reply #69 on: March 25, 2010, 09:49:21 pm »
Matt, if you use 20 litrs to clean a 3 bed house then unless you are lucky and live in a soft water area then the chances are by the time you end up with 20 litres to clean the house it would of chucked 30 down the drain going thru the ro unit.

However i like your comment on we use isn't fit for human consumtion that would shut most people up

But i still wouldn't use wfp if we had a ban but thats my personal choice just because I wouldnt think it would be morally correct to do so...we had floods down here a few years ago and luckily for me I was on holiday and missed the brunt of it but when I returned from holiday we had no water at all, just bowsers on the side off the road and although I had a full tank of water in the van ready for when I got back I didn't even think about using it I felt bad enough cleaning windows using just a bucket it was tough for a week or two but as we always seem to we survived to clean another day

Sapphire Window Cleaning

  • Posts: 2942
Re: WFP BAN! (2010)
« Reply #70 on: March 25, 2010, 09:57:26 pm »
Mike I use a booster pump and get 70% pure to 30% waste.

I do see your point about being morally correct though.

Depending how bad the weather is, I for one wont be going back up the ladders.
plus I am sure that doing so would be breaking H&S due to the fact we have the WFP but choosing not to use it, maybe if we only used WFP on 1st floor windows and mop and blade the bottoms, that would save 50% of the water.



Matt
Reaching parts traditional window cleaners can not reach.

Mike_G

  • Posts: 1500
Re: WFP BAN! (2010)
« Reply #71 on: March 25, 2010, 10:05:16 pm »
I had a booster pump for about an hour crappy thing off ebay! >:(  They any good Matt? I got a merlin and the waste on that is obscene

Just had a thought about it though and even if we had the hottest summer ever we would be able to wfp all day everyday and wash all our cars and water the gardens, if only the water companies fixed all the leaking pipes underground we would never ever have a hosepipe ban and those buggers make millions in profit every year and still try to increase the rates ! 

Stuff morals, get the pole out ;D 

Sapphire Window Cleaning

  • Posts: 2942
Re: WFP BAN! (2010)
« Reply #72 on: March 25, 2010, 10:22:06 pm »
I had a booster pump for about an hour crappy thing off ebay! >:(  They any good Matt? I got a merlin and the waste on that is obscene

Just had a thought about it though and even if we had the hottest summer ever we would be able to wfp all day everyday and wash all our cars and water the gardens, if only the water companies fixed all the leaking pipes underground we would never ever have a hosepipe ban and those buggers make millions in profit every year and still try to increase the rates

Stuff morals, get the pole out ;D 


LOL

I have a ROman RO unit 500 GPD, I have the aquatech 125 psi pump from polar brite, I can use this for hours and hours at a time, some booster pumps can only work for 1 hour than have to be turned off for 1 hour.
I think they are around the £120 mark, but for how much quicker it takes to fill its really worth it.

Matt
Reaching parts traditional window cleaners can not reach.

NBwcs

  • Posts: 846
Re: WFP BAN! (2010)
« Reply #73 on: March 26, 2010, 04:12:31 pm »
"I am afraid they can, any water collected in gullies and gutters becomes the property of the waterboard. FACT!"

 It only becomes the property of the waterboard once it joins their drainage system. Any gutters not connected ie soakaways, or syterns have absolutely nothing to do with the water authorities hence why you get a % rebate on your drainage part of the bill if you can prove you dont use their drains. Worked for Anglian Water myself for seven years b4 becoming a windy.

SPE

Re: WFP BAN! (2010)
« Reply #74 on: March 26, 2010, 09:05:02 pm »
last time a hosepipe ban was discussed in the south east a mate of mine worked for the environment agency and another for southern water , they told me a hose pipe ban was on the usual domestic use already mentioned and that stricter controls if required would result in a further 3 stages of 'drought orders' with the final stage resulting in the use of standpipes,where we would legaly stand if drought orders were implemented I've no idea but things would have to get pretty desperate before it came to that and maybe only for a week or two.
Whats more intersesting was hearing on the news the other week that some water companies are looking into having a peak summer usuage tarrif on their meters !
anyways I've always had a bit of an issue with the amount of wfp users (and I am one myself) who insist on using wfp on their shops and ground floors almost exclusively over picking up a squegee !
even when we are paying for the water and its plentiful right now it still seems incredibly wasteful (also outside of this forum  there are plenty without flow contollers/varistreams etc.) so if a hose pipe ban and water usuage became an issue and we were perhaps frowned upon by the general public and noseyparkers I'd be trying to put myself in a good light with my custies and mix it up a little trad and wfp where only nescessary on safety grounds. Whats wrong with us all doing our bit ?

HEATWAVE ! yeah bring on, long summer evenings and g&t's cant wait ! :D

lee_dewing

  • Posts: 3118
Re: WFP BAN! (2010)
« Reply #75 on: March 27, 2010, 10:28:28 am »
spe, matt

as you say if things got bad would wfp up trad down did this in 2006 when hose pipe ban.

I must admit i did the right thing for the wrong reason :-[

I'd just turned wfp end august 06 and told custy's i would trad downstairs to save on water.

really i was easeing myself into wfp if there were any probs with with windows it would be the ups, so i half my chances of mistakes.


but if we ever did have drought would do this.
and would go back to ladders and buckets and just miss dangerous climbs!

after the bad winter i am saving an emergengcy fund for winter; it's ironic to think that one day even though very unlikely it could be called upon to use the funds in the summer :o


matt re: your booster pump.
i have 200 gpd ro-man system which produces at 27ltrs an hour;  the water pressure at my parents place where my setup is; is 5 bar/75psi (i hope that's right way round)

was wondering would it make much difference to water production and waste in my circumstance;  not really sure of my waste to production ratio.

thanks lee
Pleasure in the job puts perfection in the work.     - Aristotle

Sapphire Window Cleaning

  • Posts: 2942
Re: WFP BAN! (2010)
« Reply #76 on: March 27, 2010, 10:45:56 am »
Lee I would seriously get a booster pump, this will speed up filling time and give you a better waste to pure ratio and the pressure is higher and therefore forces more water through the membranes for it to be filtered.
have a look on the polarbrite website or give Craig a ring, tell him I sent you/told you to give him a ring.




Matt
Reaching parts traditional window cleaners can not reach.

lee_dewing

  • Posts: 3118
Re: WFP BAN! (2010)
« Reply #77 on: March 27, 2010, 11:16:54 am »
thanks matt.

ps: do you require any extra's like breaker tank?

will look on polarbrite's site.
Pleasure in the job puts perfection in the work.     - Aristotle

advanced

  • Posts: 325
Re: WFP BAN! (2010)
« Reply #78 on: March 27, 2010, 09:51:28 pm »
Dont forget they are building a desalination plant in east london to cope with droghts in soth east.

lee_dewing

  • Posts: 3118
Re: WFP BAN! (2010)
« Reply #79 on: March 28, 2010, 08:59:04 am »
oh yeh i remember that now, when is that due to be finished?
Pleasure in the job puts perfection in the work.     - Aristotle