[trevor perry]

you use a scraper on top of a 20 foot pole?

I sometimes use a 80' pole, I am still looking for that 100' job.

 i would love to see how you use a scraper on a 8o ft pole i have tried at 40 ft and it was useless, also how was the scraper fastened if it was just pushed on as i presume it would be as i havnt seen a scraper with a threaded handle then that would be extremely dangerous.

[williamx]

I agree that the higher you go the more difficult it can be to remove marks from windows, but it is not impossible.

I do have various joint adapters with different tools attached that I screw onto the end of the pole instead of the brush for when the need requires.

[♠Winp®oClean♠]

Which pole do you use at 80ft?

[trevor perry]

I agree that the higher you go the more difficult it can be to remove marks from windows, but it is not impossible.

I do have various joint adapters with different tools attached that I screw onto the end of the pole instead of the brush for when the need requires.

at 80ft using a scraper it is impossible and if attempted you could cause serious damage to surrounding frames due to lack of controll plus scratches to glass could easily occur using this method, unless you can post a video of this being done then i just dont believe you.

[♠Winp®oClean♠]

I agree that the higher you go the more difficult it can be to remove marks from windows, but it is not impossible.

I do have various joint adapters with different tools attached that I screw onto the end of the pole instead of the brush for when the need requires.

at 80ft using a scraper it is impossible and if attempted you could cause serious damage to surrounding frames due to lack of controll plus scratches to glass could easily occur using this method, unless you can post a video of this being done then i just dont believe you.

The window or frame would be the least of his worries using a scraper on the end of an 80ft pole!

Ladders suddenly seem very safe!

[gerard mcmanus]

which pair of binoculars at 80' with a small scraper attached.

I agree complete with your point about  the ladders on the roof, there is danger in that also.

But I am not saying that water fed pole is useless, just not suitable for every situation, and in turn there are situations when ladders are no good and WFP would be the only alternative, unless its low enough down which you could just use a trad pole.

My point, is trad poles, ladders, and WFP, even craddles and absailers have there place in the industry, and all come with there pro's and con's, and you cant just say because x amount of people die from using ladders we shouldnt use them. We dont walk every where because people die is car accidents that is reiculus we wouldn't get out of bed in the morning.

You could say that for every window that could be turned in, you should not be using water fed poles because of the dangers associated with that. But that also would be ridiculous.

When I said on the other pole that window cleaners and users of ladders should have wrote the laws governing the use of them, I didn't mean someone who only uses a WFP for every possible scenario, even if its as ridiculous as puting a blade on top of a 80' pole, rather than, going up turning it in and doing it properly and avoid scratching the customers window.

Regardless of the pro and cons of ladders and WFP , your points on governing the use of them are ridiculous and its is clear that you dont use them to clean windows, as maybe then you would see how crazy some of you points are.

[Bryan_Dolby]

Training

FWC do accredited safety courses in

WFP and ladders
Risk assesment

Both IOSH accredited

Problem solved

Sorry would leave the WAHR to the experts and not what you think they mean

Bryan

[williamx]

On 100% of domestic homes 99% of the windows can be cleaned without the need of a ladder.

The 1% of these windows that cannot be cleaned using a wfp, can be adapted to open from the inside of the house and then cleaned safely.

If there are any windows that cannot be adapted, why can you not say "sorry that pane of glass cannot be cleaned".

[gerard mcmanus]

To be fair, anyone who trys to write the rules will have one or two points picked at. To to level the field, here is what I would put as the guidance rules.

When not to use a ladder

1. Windy conditions, if winds are light and work can continue, never leave a ladder unattended especially when extended and lay the ladder flat on the ground when working away from it to avoid it being blown over.

2. Only to be used on suitable surfaces.

Examples of surfaces that would be dangerous
 1. marbel floors(however ladder matts can be put down to work on this)
 2. Wet decking (depending on how bad mats could be used)
 3. icy roads or pavements.
 4. steep slopes, or grassy verges.
 5. Not to be used on unstable e.g. rubble, boulders.

Caution to be used in rain due to additional slipping hazards.

When setting a ladder

1. The correct 1/4 angle should be used with a little give either way but only buy 3/4 degrees either way, but never extreamly steep or sallow.

2. If it is slightly windy not that bad that you have to stop, do one of two things
  1. Rack it tightly under the sill that over hangs at the base of the window, to stop it being blown either from one side to another.
  2. Rack it within the frame of the window, to stop it being blown over.

3. Always ensure that the top two feet have level contact, and the bottom tow feet have level contact. Use a wedge or other leveling equipment to ensure this is followed.

Climbing, working on and decending the ladder

1. Use good foot wear with good grip.
2. Always hold the rungs and, never slide you hands down the rails as you descend, or ascend.
3. When working on the ladder never over reach, and use small hand held extensions instead.
4. If the window is tall, always rack above the window to avoid you having to over reach also
5. Keep three points of contact while working on the ladder.

Working on flat roofs

1. Rack the ladder 1 meter above the shelf of the roof
2. never stand  on a rung above the point where the ladder contacts the shelf of the roof.
3. Never use ladders in this manor if there are winds to blow the ladder over while you leave it unattended. In this instance you would have to secure it or have someone foot it.

Maintaining and checking your ladder

1. Feet should always be replaced before the grip fades
2. Ladders should be regularly checked to ensure there is not damage that would cause the ladder to fail
3. If there is damage to a ladder, bent rails, rungs damaged(not just scraped - damaged to the point they could break) or missing. The ladders should be replaced.

what height?

No higher than 30 feet, however this is only to allow you to rack above tall windows, and you yourself(your head, not your feet) should not be higher than 30 feet from the bottom of the ladder.

You want to add anything, pick at a few points feel free!

[♠Winp®oClean♠]

On 100% of domestic homes 99% of the windows can be cleaned without the need of a ladder.

The 1% of these windows that cannot be cleaned using a wfp, can be adapted to open from the inside of the house and then cleaned safely.

If there are any windows that cannot be adapted, why can you not say "sorry that pane of glass cannot be cleaned".

So, which pole do you use at 80ft then?

[williamx]

Sorry would leave the WAHR to the experts and not what you think they mean

Bryan

Bryan

The experts have created this situation.

The WHAD is a directive of confusion because it covers all types of ladder use, what it needs is clarity when applied to the window cleaning trade.

[williamx]

On 100% of domestic homes 99% of the windows can be cleaned without the need of a ladder.

The 1% of these windows that cannot be cleaned using a wfp, can be adapted to open from the inside of the house and then cleaned safely.

If there are any windows that cannot be adapted, why can you not say "sorry that pane of glass cannot be cleaned".

So, which pole do you use at 80ft then?

The Sl2 from Gardiners and the Slx on most of the 3 storey houses, with a 21' extel pole for rest of my work.

But I also have various other poles ranging from 10 inches to 12 feet


I am about to give them their weekly bath and mainternance check

[♠Winp®oClean♠]

On 100% of domestic homes 99% of the windows can be cleaned without the need of a ladder.

The 1% of these windows that cannot be cleaned using a wfp, can be adapted to open from the inside of the house and then cleaned safely.

If there are any windows that cannot be adapted, why can you not say "sorry that pane of glass cannot be cleaned".

So, which pole do you use at 80ft then?

The Sl2 from Gardiners and the Slx on most of the 3 storey houses, with a 21' extel pole for rest of my work.

But I also have various other poles ranging from 10 inches to 12 feet

But Gardiners recommend you do not use the SL2 above 60ft, it's stated on their website. Where would that working practice fit into health & safety?

[williamx]

They also don't say that it is dangerous to do so either.

I also have strict safety controls in place when I do work at this height.

The working area and also the area from falling equipment is cordened off.

I never work in high winds

I wear a hard hat and hi-vis

I never clean side to side, instead I go up and then clean downwards.

I have a break every 30 mintues

[♠Winp®oClean♠]

They also don't say that it is dangerous to do so either

I think their statement of "if you own the 60ft sl2 we don't recommend you add any more sections" sums it up. Does this mean you are ignoring the manufacturers recommendations with your working practices?

[williamx]

Like you said it is a Recommendation not a rule.

Car manufacturers make cars that can travel 200mph yet they don't say that you have to travel this fast.

at the moment there is no law that stops me from working at this height.

[Clive McDonald]

That's near on brilliant ladder guard. No way did you write that, but respect to you for posting it. A sensible practicle guide.


That's what we've been asking for!!!

[♠Winp®oClean♠]

Like you said it is a Recommendation not a rule.

Car manufacturers make cars that can travel 200mph yet they don't say that you have to travel this fast.

at the moment there is no law that stops me from working at this height.

There is no law to stop people using ladders, you don't use them but think you have a right to tell others that they shouldn't?

You are using equipment in a way not recommended by it's manufacturer, you are contradicting yourself here matey.

[Ian Mason]

That's near on brilliant ladder guard. No way did you write that, but respect to you for posting it. A sensible practicle guide.


That's what we've been asking for!!!

I totally agree, its clear, straight to the point, & simple!

I don`t know why they don`t just make it compulsory to obtain "a" basic ladder training certificate?

They should have "a" course, run by "one" organisation, & it nationally recognised, rather than having so many groups offering different "ladder safety training" courses, which amounts to so much confusion.

[williamx]

Like you said it is a Recommendation not a rule.

Car manufacturers make cars that can travel 200mph yet they don't say that you have to travel this fast.

at the moment there is no law that stops me from working at this height.

There is no law to stop people using ladders, you don't use them but think you have a right to tell others that they shouldn't?

You are using equipment in a way not recommended by it's manufacturer, you are contradicting yourself here matey.

No there is no law about using ladders, even though the WHAD say you must first look at an alternative method first.


The crunch will come when someone falls and gets injured or killed. you then will be asked to explain why you did not use a pole or even wfp if it was an option.

The same applies to me, I would have to explain how and why I thought this was the safest method to clean that property.

Even though I do not now use ladders (why should I if I don't need to) but when I first started 32 years ago I did, and they weren't your lightweight "ali" ones either, I also had to carry and these to my round as well, because I did not have transport.

But I can tell you this, if I was aware of the wfp system then, I would never have used a ladder